Iraq: This is now an UNWINNABLE conflict -WORLD WAR 3

Bush is working hard to give us a world characterized by divisiveness, resentments, suspicions, and violence because that is the kind of world in which America may freely act as arbiter, seeming to stand above the turmoil like Zeus with his thunderbolts. In part this derives from lack of understanding, in part arrogance, but control over the lives and institutions of others is the greatest motivator for Bush, just as it was for Hitler. Of course, he believes, or pretends to believe, that he is working towards a world of peace and democratic values, but it is to be a world where peace, democracy, and rights are defined exclusively on his terms. Recent events in London and earlier in Spain show exactly what Bush´s legacy is to be, a world full of people seething with resentment over what the U.S. has done,

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small inside, group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

"I spent 33 YEARS in the Marines. Most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism."

USMC Major General Smedley Butler

i understand why no one posts.The actions are indefensible--and as long as the troops are there,they will be ground up--and for what???
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Another note--Went to a ballgame yesterday where the "Star Spangeled Banner" was sung before the game and "God bless America" at the seventh.Used to be very festive but it just seemed somber and looking around you did not see much joy and hardly cheering.It just felt different subdued.
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By Richard C. Paddock
Times Staff Writer

07/25/05 "Los Angeles Times" -- -- BAGHDAD — Three men in an unmarked sedan pulled up near the headquarters of the national police major crimes unit. The two passengers, wearing traditional Arab dishdasha gowns, stepped from the car.

At the same moment, a U.S. military convoy emerged from an underpass. Apparently believing the men were staging an ambush, the Americans fired, killing one passenger and wounding the other. The sedan´s driver was hit in the head by two bullet fragments.

The soldiers drove on WITHOUT stopping.

This kind of shooting is far from rare in Baghdad, but the driver of the car was no ordinary casualty. He was Iraqi police BRIG. GEN. Majeed Farraji, CHIEF of the major crimes unit. His passengers were UNARMED HITCH HIKERS whom he was dropping off on his way to work.

"The reason they shot us is just because the Americans are RECKLESS," the general said from his hospital bed hours after the July 6 shooting, his head wrapped in a white bandage. "NOBODY punishes them or BLAMES them."

Angered by the growing number of unarmed civilians killed by American troops in recent weeks, the Iraqi government criticized the shootings and called on U.S. troops to exercise greater care.

U.S. officials have repeatedly declined requests to disclose the number of civilians killed in such incidents. Police in Baghdad say they have received reports that U.S. forces killed 33 unarmed civilians and injured 45 in the capital between May 1 and July 12 — an average of nearly one fatality every two days. This does not include incidents that occurred elsewhere in the country or were not reported to the police.

The continued shooting of civilians is fueling a growing dislike of the United States and undermining efforts to convince the public that American soldiers are here to help. The victims have included doctors, journalists, a professor — the kind of people the U.S. is counting on to help build an open and democratic society.

"Of course the shootings will increase support for the opposition," said Farraji, 49, who was named a police general with U.S. approval. "The hatred of the Americans has increased. I MYSELF hate them."

Just look! Even Amnesty International is turning against the ruthless islamiNazi killers. I am in complete shock. What in the Hell got in to these spineless wimps?

[link to www.amnestyusa.org]


Armed Groups in Iraq Show Utter Disdain for Basic Principles of Humanity (Amnesty Int´l)
Amnesty International ^ | 7/25/05


Armed groups opposed to the US-led multinational force and Iraq´s government are showing utter disdain for the lives of Iraqi civilians and others, continuing a pattern of war crimes and crimes against humanity, Amnesty International said in a new report published today.
At the end of one of the most deadly months since the beginning of the war in Iraq in March 2003, Amnesty International denounced the armed groups´ failure to abide by even the most basic standards of humanitarian law and said there can be no valid justification for deliberate killings of civilians, hostage-taking, and torture and killing of defenseless prisoners.

"Those who order or commit such atrocities place themselves totally beyond the pale of acceptable behavior," said Amnesty International. "There is no honor nor heroism in blowing up people going to pray or murdering a terrified hostage. Those carrying out such acts are criminals, nothing less, whose actions undermine any claim they may have to be pursuing a legitimate cause. "

In its 56-page report, Iraq, In Cold Blood: Abuses by Armed Groups, Amnesty International recognizes that many Iraqis oppose the continuing presence of US and allied forces in their country, and that these forces have themselves committed grave violations, including killings of civilians and torture of prisoners.
"But abuses committed by one side do not and can not justify abuses by another," said Amnesty International. "This is all the more the case when the principal victims are ordinary Iraqi men, women and children attempting peacefully to go about their everyday lives. All sides to the ongoing conflict have a fundamental obligation to respect the rights of civilians or of those who are rendered defenseless. Those who breach this obligation, on which ever side they stand, must be made to stop and they must be held to account."


In its report, Amnesty International cites an Iraqi government minister´s claim, made last April, that 6,000 civilians had been killed and another 16,000 wounded in attacks by armed groups in the 24 months up to March 2005. Yet, the attacks are so frequent and the security situation so grave, it is impossible to calculate with any confidence the true toll upon the civilian population let alone the long term consequences that so many Iraqis will inevitably suffer.
"We urge armed groups to immediately cease all attacks against civilians and all other abuses" said Amnesty International. "Armed groups, like other parties to the conflict in Iraq, are required to comply strictly with international law in all their acts and remain accountable for their actions."
Amnesty International is also asking key religious leaders and other influential figures in Iraq and beyond to speak out against the indefensible and make clear that there can be no circumstances at all that allow or justify war crimes and crimes against humanity.
"We earnestly hope that these leaders, by speaking out publicly or through other more discreet means, can help to make the difference," said Amnesty International. "If we and they fail, it will be Iraqi civilians who first and foremost will continue to pay the awful price."


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For a copy of the report, contact AIUSA Press Office: 202-544-0200 x 302

No amount of high-tech gadgets will conquer a people who wish to remain autonomous and sovereign. The underdogs will find a way to disable the overdogs. It is their ground. Imagine if Chinese troops tried to impose there will on California. They would fail after guerilla assaults from armed citizens would eventually become too numerous.

It is their ground. Imagine if Chinese troops tried to impose there will on California. They would fail after guerilla assaults from armed citizens would eventually become too numerous.



Since the suicide murderers are foreign, it is not ´thier ground´

Chinese troops would conduct wholesale massacres - far worse than even the nazi reprisals in sutch a situation.

Whatever, almost noone there wants the US and there will always be dickwads with ak´s and rpg´s willing to kill and die as long as any foreign troops remain in Iraq. Once they leave there will still be a bloodbath regardless of whatever government remains or how strong such a government might be. Give me a freaking break. Any type of government less than something like Saddam will be eaten for breakfast by the various factions fighting for supremacy. So this begs the question, will the US ever leave, I bet $100,000 they won´t. What do you think will happen then? Face it were completely F.U.C.K.E.D. And I was for the war... why because I knew Bush INC. were gonna do whatever the #$E# they wanted anyway, just hoped they had a good plan in place. NO they don´t give a rats ass about anyones life include that of their own troops. We don´t see those coffins coming home do we?

Oh it´s winnable we just haven´t brought in the new stuf. gues what we got stuff that can kill anyone or just make them staril. we´ve got tech. that can wipe out anyone we want to .They jusgt wont use it till we need to. We have space ships that you can not even emagine. We just don´t show the little people until we have to. Haven´t you seen this before like atom, stealth, andlazer able to knock out a missle as soon as its launched. Where has everyone been?

Excuse me, I did not realize this thread, as so many others of Libbie Leftists is merely a monologue and not a dialogue. There is no Dialectic here.

U.S Credit Bubble Chart
[link to www.moneyfiles.org]

1537--its true that there is horror being produced on both sides but to call this a libby left thread is nonsense.The only way we will get out of there is if they kill 10-20,000 more of coalition and its allies.Very simply, they will not stop.

But before the US attacked Iraq, there were no insurgents,no foreign terrorists,no sucide bombers etc.This all happened as a result of the War imposed this country to supposedly get rid of one man.

All of whats happening now is a direct result of the invasion.

To support Bush and his deceiving reasons to attack is the cowards way out.This man lied his
country into a terrible mess and in the process enriched his friends.Now there is no way out and the deaths and casualties will just get worse.

I assure you older vets in this and other countries would be sniping away at invaders if this country (USA) was overrun with unwanted foreigners and your friends and relatives were callously killed.

Just ask yourself,what if BUSH had leveled with the AMERICAN public and asked for support to take down Saddam and bring Democracy to Iraq.

Do you seriously think Congress would have given him carte blanche on the war and the Patriot act?
An act which allows fbi and others,among other things, to go into your home without a warrant and take whatever they want........

Bush can´t even pull off a good deception. The man is enept.

One other small thing,if this was/is such an important situation to protect the freedom of America,how come none of the services can even make their reduced quotas?

A lot of people in are re-upping but they are getting huge bonus checks.It is so bad that they are trying to raise the age to 42 years up from 24,25,28 and 35 yrs respectively for the different services.

When the Russians tried to put missles into Cuba and Kennedy resisted,tons of people joined to protect our country.It was a legitimate threat.This thing,now they are saying up to 12 years, and 14 permanent bases does not seem like we are ever going to leave so the deaths will keep on coming..............

1537, keep your stereotype labels to yourself and go suck something that rhymes with pick. Monologue? If you have something more productive to say which I am sure you don´t since you demonstrated that clearly with your post, then say it or #$#( off.

FROM Senior Defense Officials in Baghdad


U.S. offers forecast on Iraq insurgency


Insurgents in Iraq probably will sustain the current rate of bloody attacks for at least six months, through the next elections, and expect the United States to give up on Iraq within five years, senior defense officials in Baghdad said Friday.

Increasingly violent suicide and roadside bombings are expected to continue at a rate of 65 daily--nearly 500 a week--as insurgents hold enough popular support to carry them out, the officials said, outlining the coalition´s latest intelligence assessment of security here.

Hoping that support for the government wanes, rebel forces are banking on a coalition withdrawal that allows them to overtake a weakened Iraqi government, said the officials.

Vines and three other senior officials, who spoke on condition of ANONYMITY because their comments reflected continuing military and intelligence operations.

That picture belied some Bush administration estimates that the insurgency was, in the words of Vice President Dick Cheney, "in its last throes," and hewed closer to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld´s estimate that it could last as long as a dozen years.

Quote:

But before the US attacked Iraq, there were no insurgents,no foreign terrorists,no sucide bombers etc.This all happened as a result of the War imposed this country to supposedly get rid of one man.

All of whats happening now is a direct result of the invasion.


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Only a fool would think this.

Did you forget about the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing? It didn´t go so well, which is why they came back and did it again.

9-11 had nothing to do with Iraq.

Neither does violence in Thailand or Kashmir.

It has to do with world domination, the Islamic Fascist´s goal.

The current violence in Iraq is Sunni versus Shia muslim.

Don´t you get it?

If they don´t have us to kill, they will fight each other.

They´ve been fighting each other for hundreds of years. Only these animals will kill kids in a queue waiting for candy.

"""They´ve been fighting each other for hundreds of years. Only these animals will kill kids in a queue waiting for candy.""""

You are absolutely correct.But ill bet people will think next time before they let their children near troops.

I would think the other side thinks the same way.You cannot defeat a people who are not afraid to die.That is their part of the world and they intend to inflict as much pain as it takes.Youu will probably see that contry split into 3 parts before it is over.

getting late here---that is "you" and "country"
time to sleep.God Bless...