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****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 938842
United States
02/24/2011 11:54 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
To live for a 1000 years!!!! Look at our overpopulation problems now....
 Quoting: ~~Moriel~~


Really? In the usa population growth is pretty flat. My town's graveyards are growing fast, the list of babies born in the news paper is a lot smaller than the obituary pages, check your papers out.

There are a lot of over population debunker sites on the net with factual and pertinent information, please check some of them out. Don't remain ignorant of the situation or true agenda of the evil ones.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1275979


Yes, in the developed nations, it can be that way. More people dont marry or have less children, The baby boomers are aging.

When the Guff of souls for earth is emptied..our cycle and timetable will start over. A new human creation can emerge.
OneLove

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02/24/2011 11:54 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati means ENLIGHTENMENT

The purpose is to help evolve humankind back to 1,000 year plus lifespans and harmonious living with the earth. To create a human with no need of laws and regulations cause they are trust worthy and have the law written in their heart

To unite Man with God and God with Man until the two are inseparable.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


You and anyone else can say these things... But when you observe their actions, the hypocrisy of your statement shows.

Example... If they're a group of good people ,why do they cause so much death and destruction? Wars, famine, genocide... I know they do it and how they do it so I'm right about them.

But how can you justify the murder of innocent children?

I'm very interested in how you're going to try to sell this death cult as something good and righteous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684907


Sir, with all due respect, The real enlightened ones, the true and loyal angels of Jesus, they are not the same as the evil ones on Earth who call themselves the Illuminati.

The evil illuminati on earth are not out to save us, but to wipe us out to prevent competition from us when they emerge from their bunkers after the coming cosmic troubles.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1275979



 Quoting: OneLove


^^THIS^^

Last Edited by ~Christine~ on 02/24/2011 11:55 AM
I, Christine Ann ~ ~, delete, cancel, terminate, void, rescind, null, break any contracts, agreements, vows which I and/or my ancestors were not aware of, or I was mislead into these contracts, agreements, vows or never given full disclosure in the physical, etheric, astral, etc. realms in this
incarnation and in all my incarnations and forms across time and space and in all dimensions and in all parallel and alternate realities.
-----------------------------------
Nasi Novare Coram
-----------------------------------
nestack

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02/24/2011 11:55 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
OP,I may have taken you seriously at some point if you hadnt been so cruelly dismissive of that woman who was under MKULTRA mind control. Why should anyone believe that you know what you are talking about when you know absolutely nothing about their mind control programs. You are whacked.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 11:55 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
To live for a 1000 years!!!! Look at our overpopulation problems now....
 Quoting: ~~Moriel~~


Really? In the usa population growth is pretty flat. My town's graveyards are growing fast, the list of babies born in the news paper is a lot smaller than the obituary pages, check your papers out.

There are a lot of over population debunker sites on the net with factual and pertinent information, please check some of them out. Don't remain ignorant of the situation or true agenda of the evil ones.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1275979


In the USA maybe...More and more woman now days are deciding not to have children, and also birth control, abortions, all these play a big part...but tell this to the people that live in asian countries, i'm sure they would love to disagree with you.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 11:56 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
For the past few months I have been starting to think the Illuminati is being purposefully badmouthed...promoted by conspiracy sites (which thrive off 80% propaganda and 20% data)...
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 11:57 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
s226
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/24/2011 11:57 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Keep worshiping the creation not the Creator
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1158517


I don't think its right,
that you let him worship creations.

Edward, your threads are truly enlightenment.
 Quoting: RIGHTEOUS_




Thanks friend !

More and more will understand, the true Temple of God is our bodies and ourselves. More will enter into the Holy of Holies.

Not that Im a High Priest of any capacity, lol... I have a long way to go yet, very long way...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/24/2011 11:58 AM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
For the past few months I have been starting to think the Illuminati is being purposefully badmouthed...promoted by conspiracy sites (which thrive off 80% propaganda and 20% data)...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1178982



Yes,

A+++

The Illuminati all thru out history, have been the Good Doctors and Philosophers and teachers and all the ones that do good to uplift humanity, They do good works wherever they go.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/24/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
OP,I may have taken you seriously at some point if you hadnt been so cruelly dismissive of that woman who was under MKULTRA mind control. Why should anyone believe that you know what you are talking about when you know absolutely nothing about their mind control programs. You are whacked.
 Quoting: nestack


Nestack, my Comment at that time was not directed to her personally, but the ones that fuel every mental distress and lumping it under mind control before there is proof, Im not saying that brain wave testing and experiments never happen, But Im asking to balance true investigative proof, Without it, false memory syndrome can happen and innocent people go to jail

the Salem Witch trials is a example of erroneous mass hysteria that killed innocent people.
OneLove

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02/24/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Have you studied the Nazarenes/Essenes? They were truly enlightened souls.
I, Christine Ann ~ ~, delete, cancel, terminate, void, rescind, null, break any contracts, agreements, vows which I and/or my ancestors were not aware of, or I was mislead into these contracts, agreements, vows or never given full disclosure in the physical, etheric, astral, etc. realms in this
incarnation and in all my incarnations and forms across time and space and in all dimensions and in all parallel and alternate realities.
-----------------------------------
Nasi Novare Coram
-----------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
wow, I have been chasing some weird personal thoughts - this world we live in has taken on a new form to me: I see all single line vectors now. why? a vector is a simple "line" it has "two opposite ends" and "center". no matter how long the line is, the center is always at the center (rel.) that said, we live i na world of pure opposites, starting with X,Y,Z, (3D space) each "axis" (vector) is two opposites ends and a center (up / down - left - right) no matter the degree that each end extends out, they are always 1) opposite and 2) balanced.

now, that is all a cool little construct sitting there in the table but it cannot evolve it seems (that design can't) and needs some sort of "Catalyst" action to cause the whole design to churn a little.. mainly the churning consists of "some force" pushing various vectors "off center" and "karma"(as we call it) comes in to "re balance" things.

There is where I see a role for "evil" (it is the opposite of good after all?) evil (and good) push back and forth (catalyze each other?) and "Cause evolution to occur" (changes, growth, overcome)

Consider this process like weight lifting, it is "opposing force we choose to resist against" as a result of our interaction with some opposing force (weight of dumbells) we grow stronger from it.. we evolve...?

now, remove the opposing the opposing force and the vector design is lost. It seems, in this plane, to "exist" involves two forces (that old duality thang is THE DESIGN and no one's fault, and not even an issue)

I think, ultimately, as we learn each side (we are now) with ..cough cough "help" from illuminatti "guidance"?... we evolve, and grow and are pushed (opposed) into evolving weather we like it or not.

now, what is the purpose of that mechanism? I think.. ultimately, we will loose the concept of "that side or this side" and use BOTH sides. Like a bird - it flies using "two opposing forces" - it's wings! we have wings - see them in gubberment? - notice they "flap all over and cannot seem to fly"? (yet, still learning how to possibly?) I think the goal we have as a race will be someday to combine both opposites, together and use them both as some sort of leap like 1 + 1 = 3?

I dunno... without opposites, we would lay here and never grow, never evolve. see the egyptian Winged Solar Disk? (maat / balance) it seems that is the design, and until we embrace both ends of the opposites, at the same time, we will always be out of balance.....

discuss?

Idol1
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 12:03 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
For the past few months I have been starting to think the Illuminati is being purposefully badmouthed...promoted by conspiracy sites (which thrive off 80% propaganda and 20% data)...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1178982



Yes,

A+++

The Illuminati all thru out history, have been the Good Doctors and Philosophers and teachers and all the ones that do good to uplift humanity, They do good works wherever they go.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


Just by the fact that you're ignoring the questions that prove you wrong are enough evidence for the thinkers here. I should have expected nothing less from a member of the death cult.
Anonymous Coward
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Finland
02/24/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Sure Rothschild and George Soros think for our own good.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
OP,I may have taken you seriously at some point if you hadnt been so cruelly dismissive of that woman who was under MKULTRA mind control. Why should anyone believe that you know what you are talking about when you know absolutely nothing about their mind control programs. You are whacked.
 Quoting: nestack


+1

Op is a jerkoff. Never been loved. So sad.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/24/2011 12:05 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati means ENLIGHTENMENT

The purpose is to help evolve humankind back to 1,000 year plus lifespans and harmonious living with the earth. To create a human with no need of laws and regulations cause they are trust worthy and have the law written in their heart

To unite Man with God and God with Man until the two are inseparable.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


You and anyone else can say these things... But when you observe their actions, the hypocrisy of your statement shows.

Example... If they're a group of good people ,why do they cause so much death and destruction? Wars, famine, genocide... I know they do it and how they do it so I'm right about them.

But how can you justify the murder of innocent children?

I'm very interested in how you're going to try to sell this death cult as something good and righteous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684907


Sir, with all due respect, The real enlightened ones, the true and loyal angels of Jesus, they are not the same as the evil ones on Earth who call themselves the Illuminati.

The evil illuminati on earth are not out to save us, but to wipe us out to prevent competition from us when they emerge from their bunkers after the coming cosmic troubles.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1275979



 Quoting: OneLove


^^THIS^^
 Quoting: OneLove


Come on Ed, lets have it...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 938842
United States
02/24/2011 12:05 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
For the past few months I have been starting to think the Illuminati is being purposefully badmouthed...promoted by conspiracy sites (which thrive off 80% propaganda and 20% data)...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1178982



Yes,

A+++

The Illuminati all thru out history, have been the Good Doctors and Philosophers and teachers and all the ones that do good to uplift humanity, They do good works wherever they go.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


Just by the fact that you're ignoring the questions that prove you wrong are enough evidence for the thinkers here. I should have expected nothing less from a member of the death cult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684907



Im ignoring questions? which ones? Ill go back and look.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
02/24/2011 12:07 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
wow, I have been chasing some weird personal thoughts - this world we live in has taken on a new form to me: I see all single line vectors now. why? a vector is a simple "line" it has "two opposite ends" and "center". no matter how long the line is, the center is always at the center (rel.) that said, we live i na world of pure opposites, starting with X,Y,Z, (3D space) each "axis" (vector) is two opposites ends and a center (up / down - left - right) no matter the degree that each end extends out, they are always 1) opposite and 2) balanced.

now, that is all a cool little construct sitting there in the table but it cannot evolve it seems (that design can't) and needs some sort of "Catalyst" action to cause the whole design to churn a little.. mainly the churning consists of "some force" pushing various vectors "off center" and "karma"(as we call it) comes in to "re balance" things.

There is where I see a role for "evil" (it is the opposite of good after all?) evil (and good) push back and forth (catalyze each other?) and "Cause evolution to occur" (changes, growth, overcome)

Consider this process like weight lifting, it is "opposing force we choose to resist against" as a result of our interaction with some opposing force (weight of dumbells) we grow stronger from it.. we evolve...?

now, remove the opposing the opposing force and the vector design is lost. It seems, in this plane, to "exist" involves two forces (that old duality thang is THE DESIGN and no one's fault, and not even an issue)

I think, ultimately, as we learn each side (we are now) with ..cough cough "help" from illuminatti "guidance"?... we evolve, and grow and are pushed (opposed) into evolving weather we like it or not.

now, what is the purpose of that mechanism? I think.. ultimately, we will loose the concept of "that side or this side" and use BOTH sides. Like a bird - it flies using "two opposing forces" - it's wings! we have wings - see them in gubberment? - notice they "flap all over and cannot seem to fly"? (yet, still learning how to possibly?) I think the goal we have as a race will be someday to combine both opposites, together and use them both as some sort of leap like 1 + 1 = 3?

I dunno... without opposites, we would lay here and never grow, never evolve. see the egyptian Winged Solar Disk? (maat / balance) it seems that is the design, and until we embrace both ends of the opposites, at the same time, we will always be out of balance.....

discuss?

Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1153486


Yes, we evolve to integrate both forces !!!!! Youre very right, Instead of the Pillar of Mercy and Severity, We are the Middle Pillar, The Narrow Path that Jesus spoke of. Strong and sure . the Kether (Crown on Top) and Malkuth (the Kingdom) Under our Feet !

:Rebis1:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/24/2011 12:11 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati means ENLIGHTENMENT

The purpose is to help evolve humankind back to 1,000 year plus lifespans and harmonious living with the earth. To create a human with no need of laws and regulations cause they are trust worthy and have the law written in their heart

To unite Man with God and God with Man until the two are inseparable.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


You and anyone else can say these things... But when you observe their actions, the hypocrisy of your statement shows.

Example... If they're a group of good people ,why do they cause so much death and destruction? Wars, famine, genocide... I know they do it and how they do it so I'm right about them.

But how can you justify the murder of innocent children?

I'm very interested in how you're going to try to sell this death cult as something good and righteous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684907



Both forces, Duality are allowed to exist for a time, cause it does represent our true nature. Our Amygdala core brain governs flight or fight. To tame the Dragon is the goal of our Inner Michael.

All things are in a cycle. We are the offspring of former wipe outs and survivors. It is said we are the forth group of humanity on earth.

Its beyond our understanding if this resulted in stronger offspring or not. But we have to be assured, the Goal IS. PEACE ON EARTH.
Anonymous Coward
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Taiwan
02/24/2011 12:13 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati means ENLIGHTENMENT

The purpose is to help evolve humankind back to 1,000 year plus lifespans and harmonious living with the earth. To create a human with no need of laws and regulations cause they are trust worthy and have the law written in their heart

To unite Man with God and God with Man until the two are inseparable.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


Oh no you dont!

Their ways seems pretty service to self... Service to God eh?

poop
OneLove

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02/24/2011 12:13 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Ed, their actions speak volumes to all that are awake. Sure, they may do "some" good work but, it's to confuse us into believing they have our (which is really their) best interests at heart.
I, Christine Ann ~ ~, delete, cancel, terminate, void, rescind, null, break any contracts, agreements, vows which I and/or my ancestors were not aware of, or I was mislead into these contracts, agreements, vows or never given full disclosure in the physical, etheric, astral, etc. realms in this
incarnation and in all my incarnations and forms across time and space and in all dimensions and in all parallel and alternate realities.
-----------------------------------
Nasi Novare Coram
-----------------------------------
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1158517
United States
02/24/2011 12:14 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati means ENLIGHTENMENT

The purpose is to help evolve humankind back to 1,000 year plus lifespans and harmonious living with the earth. To create a human with no need of laws and regulations cause they are trust worthy and have the law written in their heart

To unite Man with God and God with Man until the two are inseparable.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


You and anyone else can say these things... But when you observe their actions, the hypocrisy of your statement shows.

Example... If they're a group of good people ,why do they cause so much death and destruction? Wars, famine, genocide... I know they do it and how they do it so I'm right about them.

But how can you justify the murder of innocent children?

I'm very interested in how you're going to try to sell this death cult as something good and righteous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 684907



Both forces, Duality are allowed to exist for a time, cause it does represent our true nature. Our Amygdala core brain governs flight or fight. To tame the Dragon is the goal of our Inner Michael.

All things are in a cycle. We are the offspring of former wipe outs and survivors. It is said we are the forth group of humanity on earth.

Its beyond our understanding if this resulted in stronger offspring or not. But we have to be assured, the Goal IS. PEACE ON EARTH.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Anonymous Coward
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Taiwan
02/24/2011 12:16 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Ed, their actions speak volumes to all that are awake. Sure, they may do "some" good work but, it's to confuse us into believing they have our (which is really their) best interests at heart.
 Quoting: OneLove


moshpit

You rock lady!

We sure could use some more of that... these enlightened weiners sure seemed to love a good Sausage Factory though (not very kind to the ladies - anti-enlightenment)
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 12:17 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Al, I've got a question. Isn't there different 'factions' involved? So, some may have different agendas, some for/some against the populace...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/24/2011 12:19 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Ed, their actions speak volumes to all that are awake. Sure, they may do "some" good work but, it's to confuse us into believing they have our (which is really their) best interests at heart.
 Quoting: OneLove


Honestly OneLove, You would really do best to focus on oneself, Be the best you can be, We can never be so sure until we are in someone elses shoes. You have no evidence to really know by hearsay whether someone is a illuminati or not. Theres lots of people that stifle their consciousness and do selfish things, yes. We all do to some extent in our lives

We just have to be respectful that everyone is on their own developmental time table,

Love your family meanwhile. Be moral and upright . Be cautious, yes, while navigating ones way thru the world.

But you have little time to figure who YOU really are , And this should be the said goal of everyone. We never know who we really are until we are in those shoes.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/24/2011 12:20 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
holy crap - the goal is "the third pillar"? damn I been wondering what in the hell is the third pillar (yea, they all have symbolic lower level names too) but the masonic third pillar that sort of comes outa no where with J & B aaaah -

so, this "thought" (the opposites is correct, embrace them both, they are both correct when viewed" at the same time, together, as ONE combined force) yea, I think the black and white squares indicate "this the damn way it is, it is two forces, they are opposite, they CO exist and live with it (after learning each side, with time and "Experience" as you say which is what time allows... - a few tries...)

I see we (I) have to accept "evil" - more... maybe relabel it to something more useful? Accept the opposite, try to understand it's purpose so I can accept it 9as I think I am doing now) rather than "remove evil from my life" mroe as repackage it, combine it with good, and use both of those forces at the same time. seems the "Evil ones" are doing this? after all, our lifestyle is sure not living shacks. (although, some choose to I think - maybe more relative in nature really, we cant compare countries accurately) almost like the "Evil ones" offer 50% of each of the forces (good / evil) and we DO evolve (we are, we have and will keep doing so) and yea they do have some darkness to it, I would expect to see it. darkness s simply an opposite force of light though and ALLOWS light to even exist (I think?)

pretty cool, I red your threads always start to end and find it interesting that today, I am not banned (as I usually am for even answering a PC tech question in here haha - today is my lucky day to talk to an initiated one. I am sort of self initiated, I dotn follow the initiations (experiences actually) so I don;t evolve the way the say masons do or something like that... hermetics, esoterics, light study - cover a ton of cultures (because we can these days)

its all very interesting.

I will stand with my BOTH forces theory and try to understand both sides or all forces and never try to be on one side or the other - Out of Balance - Maat says "fall over" bird says "I can't fly with one wing"

we need Evil (opposite ends must be understood and accepted - or else... fall over...)

Can I hear more please? I think it is best I discover it myself - sort a personal initiation "to experience" (and learn if I can)


coolness


thanks!

Idol1
RIGHTEOUS_

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02/24/2011 12:20 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Keep worshiping the creation not the Creator
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1158517


I don't think its right,
that you let him worship creations.

Edward, your threads are truly enlightenment.
 Quoting: RIGHTEOUS_




Thanks friend !

More and more will understand, the true Temple of God is our bodies and ourselves. More will enter into the Holy of Holies.

Not that Im a High Priest of any capacity, lol... I have a long way to go yet, very long way...
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


Enlightenment

There was a time when humankind had to get a way of life through the darkness.

It was then that Christ came to humankind, and to fight their fear of being alone, for humankind thought it was alone in existence.

Then Christ showed up, and enlightened their path towards the Light.

Mankind started using the fire to use as a light; to light their path through the darkness.
!
OneLove

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02/24/2011 12:22 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Ed, their actions speak volumes to all that are awake. Sure, they may do "some" good work but, it's to confuse us into believing they have our (which is really their) best interests at heart.
 Quoting: OneLove


Honestly OneLove, You would really do best to focus on oneself, Be the best you can be, We can never be so sure until we are in someone elses shoes. You have no evidence to really know by hearsay whether someone is a illuminati or not. Theres lots of people that stifle their consciousness and do selfish things, yes. We all do to some extent in our lives

We just have to be respectful that everyone is on their own developmental time table,

Love your family meanwhile. Be moral and upright . Be cautious, yes, while navigating ones way thru the world.

But you have little time to figure who YOU really are , And this should be the said goal of everyone. We never know who we really are until we are in those shoes.
 Quoting: EDWARD . M. DEW.( ALCHEMIST)


I've been studying the Nazarenes/Essenes which Jesus was a part of. Enlightenment can be found in those teachings. And, enlightenment does start within. The marriage within oneself.
I, Christine Ann ~ ~, delete, cancel, terminate, void, rescind, null, break any contracts, agreements, vows which I and/or my ancestors were not aware of, or I was mislead into these contracts, agreements, vows or never given full disclosure in the physical, etheric, astral, etc. realms in this
incarnation and in all my incarnations and forms across time and space and in all dimensions and in all parallel and alternate realities.
-----------------------------------
Nasi Novare Coram
-----------------------------------
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
02/24/2011 12:24 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Al, I've got a question. Isn't there different 'factions' involved? So, some may have different agendas, some for/some against the populace...
 Quoting: SickScent


Sure, there are many varieties as there is condiments and ketchup, lol..

You can only be sure of yourself and the level you vibrate, the choices you make all have a part

The Real Illuminati are thousands of years old. They know theres been a plan for earth long before there was a human footprint upon it, and they know of the plan for earth long after there are no human foot prints upon it..

Life is Universal. Truth is Both God and Science.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2011 12:26 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati's have tried, they have failed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1274929
France
02/24/2011 12:26 PM
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Re: ****The Real Purpose of the Illuminati ********
Illuminati's have tried, they have failed.





GLP