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Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 01:20 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Natural Family Planning

In a post-collapse, there no longer will be artificial birth control methods to reply upon. Condoms, oral contracpetives, diaphrams and spermicides, all will be unavailable. This means that you'll have to reply upon natural family planning and or artificially altering the pH of the vaginal lining in order to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Medical Issues
Getting pregnant in a collapse can be very dangerous. First of all one must look to personal medical history. Some women have pre-existing medical conditions that might put both the mother and child in danger. Say a mother has already had a very difficult Caesarian section twice before. Having a child when you know that delivering vaginally will be difficult or impossible is very risky. Someone with out of control diabetes that tries to carry a child will have tremendous hurdles to overcome. Often the baby is much larger when the mother is diabetic, so of course this makes vaginal delivery problemtic. Someone who's had issues with pre-eclampsia could suddenly hemorrhage, losing both patients too.

In today's world, we eat fortified food. There's a reason for this. Many of the food we eat aren't really healthy. Vitamins and minerals are added to make us think that they're natural or healthy.

The primary reason was to ensure that women received adequate folic acid to prevent neural tube defects. As babies form, one of the first things to form is the spinal column and nervous system. Without adequate folic acid, babies could be (and were and are) born with incomplete spinal chords and a host of issues as a result.

There used to be many nutritional deficiencies because people didn't eat adequate foods that provided enough vitamins and minerals. This is why maternity vitamins are given to make sure that the mother and baby(s) get enough to properly develop.

Besides all of that, a lack of enough calcium will mean the only means of getting enough calcium to the baby will come from the mother's own calcium resources like her skeleton and teeth.

In a post-collapse world, there won't be vitamin supplements nor fortified food. In a perfect world with great agriculture and a diverse diet, this wouldn't be an issue. Of course what's more likely to happen is severe malnutrition and even starvation. This is one of many reasons I have hammered away at describing the nutrional content of foods in order that you may best take care of yourselves.
Detection
The second issue with pregnancy is lack of detection. Today we put great faith in early pregnancy tests. These are followed up with a second test at the doctor's office. In a SHTF scenario, there won't be any scientific means of determining pregnancy other than symptoms (vomiting, lack of monthly menstrual flow, a blue cervix, changes in breast development, increased pigmentation on the face, etc). Because this was historically an issue, fortified food laws were passed because one could be pregnant and not know that they needed to eat differently. If you think you're pregnant, and you have a speculum to open your vaginal cavity, then it's possible that someone could inspect it for you. This is why you need detailed medical kits in families with potential child bearing women and equipment. I can only teach you a little.

Mutagens
A third issue is many chemical agents are toxic to a developing baby. Many medications are as well. Because you may be on some medications and not realize that you're pregnant, the baby may have been harmed. Of course tobacco smoking and fetal alcohol syndrome are the two of the most common ones. So is epilepsy medicine.So are some antibiotics, so use care taking them and always considering if taking them is medically necessary, and using alternative antibiotics when possible.

Planning
Not everyone will desire to get pregnant post-collapse. If food is scarce, this is a big problem. Timing may be crucial for people attempting to get from one place to another on foot. You might have just delivered a child, and the last thing you need is a second child on the way.

This means that you have to use the old ways to choose when to have sex based upon three main criteria:
Timing: the rhythm method journaled and charted
Temperature: Basal temperature detected and charted
Touch: Mucus levels detected and charted

See this link for an excellent charting method:
[link to menstruationresearch.org]

These are your main means of reducing unwanted pregnancies. Statistically if you are strict about these three methods, only 1 in 25 will get pregnant. That's the good news. The bad news is most people break the rules or they fail to journal and chart adequately. This takes discipline. Men if you love your partner and or spouse, you will be responsible, understanding, and sensitive. Women you too must be responsible and journal and not break the rules.

Timing
You must learn to listen to your body and notice the signs and chart accordingly. How long does your menstrual flow usually last? Note that and use that as a guide. This may change based upon diet or the lack of adequate diet. To start you should begin NOW to chart, not wait for a collapse. Ideally you need eight months of charting but you won't have that.

If you're currently on oral birth control, then of course your natural pattern has been obfuscated by the addition of excessive hormone ingestion. It will taken months to finally find it's natural equilibrium.

Here's one method taken from the office of Health and Human Services:
[link to www.hhs.gov]

Calendar Method or Rhythm
"To predict the first day you’re likely to be fertile (the most likely time for you to get pregnant if you have unprotected sex) in your new cycle:
You will need your menstrual cycle information from at least the past eight months, a calendar and a pen.
Subtract 18 days from the total days of your shortest cycle. Take that number and count ahead from the very first day of your next period (count the day your period begins).
Example: your shortest cycle lasted 27 days. 27-18= 9 days. On your calendar circle the date your next period starts, and beginning with that day count ahead 9 days. So if you period starts on the 2nd day of the month, you’d count ahead to the 10th day of the month. Put an “X” on the calendar for that day.

To predict the last day you’re likely to be fertile in the cycle:
Subtract 11 days from the total days of your longest cycle. Take that number and count ahead from the very first day of your next period (count the day your period begins).
Example: your longest cycle lasted 29 days. 29-11=18 days. On your calendar circle the date your next period begins, and starting with that day count ahead 18 days. If your period starts on the 2nd day of the month, you’d count ahead to the 19th day of the month. Put an “X” on the calendar for that day.
Office of Population Affairs Natural Family Planning Fact Sheet U.S. Department of Health & Human Services 200 Independence Avenue, S.W. Washington, D.C.
The days between the two “X’s” are when you’re most likely to get pregnant. If you don’t want to get pregnant, then don’t have sex on those days, or use birth control (like a condom, diaphragm, or cervical cap).
Keep this in mind: the calendar method can predict the days you are most likely to be fertile, but isn’t always 100% accurate, especially if your cycles don’t always last the same number of days. It’s best to use other fertility awareness methods, too "

Temperature
When a women begins to ovulate, her basal body temperature will change from her regular temperature. It will usually rise a little less than one degree Fahrenheit. This change will happen up to three days before she ovulates and one day after. This is the peak period of getting pregnant since there's some variation in it. It typically will occur when you feel most sexually excited too, which is too bad.

This means you must religiously chart your temperature change. It doesn't take long.

The main issue is cleanliness post-coitus. Since sanitation is modified post-collapse, then you might have sex and then not be able to bathe. Because of that and because sperm can live for a set time period, then you must be very careful on days leading up to this basal temperature rise (ovulation).

Touch
Your cervical mucus will change in content and by inspection. You'll feel along the inner wall, the mucus will get thicker as you ovulate. It will “string” between two inserted fingers upon inspection. Then it will thin after the four day window. You'll note this, and any other changes because you'll become your own gynecologist. You may find that your partner will also note such changes and can help you evaluate them too.

Changes in pH
For implantation to occur, the lining must stay at a strict level of 3.4-4. Water has a natural pH of 7.0 if pure. Soap is alkaline and exceeds 7.0 based upon content. This is why a little soap and water will possible take care of times when you had sex just before or after the four day window. People douche and too often now. In a post-collapse, they won't be able to do it often, other than perhaps a mild vinegar one or possibly one containing a miniscule amount of iodine to treat a yeast infection. Regardless it is unwise to break the rules and have sex on those days when all indications: timing, temperature, and touch tell you NO! :) (But you want sex...sorry.)

Remember that sexually transmitted diseases will are always prevalent. We have a lot of undetected STDs now, and this will still be the case. It may be that there's less opportunity, or it may be that sexual abuse happens in a world post-collapse. Since the barrier method is not in place, that special care must be taken after sex if this occurs.

I wish I could give you better news, but this is the most pragmatic solution to a world without true contraception.
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 01:27 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
More information about using a speculum to chart changes. It's well written and discussing a blue cervix in pregnancy (only 50 % have this) and many other issues.

[link to www.fwhc.org]

A speculum can be purchased for as little as $12 USA.
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 01:37 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Childhood Development Milestones

Here's a link to valuable milestones that your child should achieve based upon the average that the children in a populace achieve them. Some variance is normal. They may slow down or speed up a little. Due to stress or malnutrion, expect variation to occur.
[link to www.med.umich.edu]
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 02:11 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
"We are born weak, we need strength; helpless, we need aid; foolish, we need reason. All that we lack at birth, all that we need when we come to man's estate is the gift of education."
Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Be a critical thinker

I've written extensively about prepping and coping with a collapse. Whatever I write is a springboard to your own ideas based upon testing what I write about, doing independent research, and then forming your own informed opinion. You should never blindly accept anything, but test it to see if it's valid.

The nation of the USA is wildly polarized. Brilliant people have different views along the continuum of the world of ideas. Does that mean that one is wrong and another is correct. I'm not so sure. I think part of that may be true, but it might also be true that based upon their understanding of science, faith, experiences, religious upbringing, culture, art, race, values, ethos, and age that what they perceive to be true and valid may be quite different than my own background. This doesn't mean that all perception is valid, far from it! Not every way is true or valid or even acceptable. Don't be like Aleister Crowley and “do as thou wilt”. I'll never accept that notion, but I may defend another person's right to believe it as long as they don't impinge upon my own right and others.

Let's say that you believe in this thing I call the Source and that others call God. Is it better to accept it as a child, or to examine the Holy Scriptures and peer deeply into it and find resonance in it and challenge it and then wholeheartedly embrace it because you find it VALID? I think the latter method is superior. Later when others challenge your beliefs, then you might be able to explain in simple terms why you believe what you believe.

Real love is never about forcing your opinion upon another. We've discussed this before. That is rape. That is evil and not what the Love of God or Jesus is all about.

Let's say that you totally believe in evolution. Why? Let's say you totally deny evolution. Why? Peer deeply into that phenomena and idea and be willing to challenge your beliefs.

If you think that the collapse is coming, then examine why you think that is so. Is it logical? Are there historical precedents? Are there economic, social, cultural, political, military forces at play that lead some to conclude that it's a logical possibility?

Do you think it's nonsense? Perhaps it is? If you think that, then don't just say it, but follow through and prove why you think things are stable and getting better and brighter.

You can't prove a negative, but don't frame it that way. That is called “evidence of absence”.

Be a thoughtful prepper. If you totally disagree, and think that learning archaic agricultural methods are ridiculous, then prove it.

I believe many things. Discover what YOU believe and then travel on your own spiritual, cultural, artistic, physical, mental journey. Don't totally be a follower. Risk being a leader, if only of your own ideas.

Never think that you have all the right ideas. How many trillions of people have lived before us? How many will come after?

Knowledge continues, but we have forgotten more than we can learn. There is more information now perhaps and accelerating than we can cope with. We may not be able to process it all, and yet we seem inclined to embrace that acceleration.
MzTreeChick

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11/13/2012 02:37 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
WOW

yoda much knowledge this man does have.



You never cease to amaze me and I hope you never do!




hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 05:49 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
WOW

yoda much knowledge this man does have.



You never cease to amaze me and I hope you never do!




hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick

You are sweet Lady. Note the capital L.

Doing your own research

The easiest method of doing research is using Google Books. Many prepping topics are esoteric. For example, let's say you were looking up Native American tribal lore on medicinal herbs. There's probably a handful of ethnobotanical or medical or arthropological studies done, but it's difficult to find them. I've found many through Google Books, and often if old then they include the whole ebook. Not only that, but also the value is that it's searchable too versus straining your eyes looking through pages and pages of dusty tomes. Believe me, my hardback library is enormous, but many times I can quickly find an answer from this research.

Google Scholar has much more authoritative links to research, but often they only point you in the right direction. What you can do after that is see if your library has a membership in any of of hundreds of academic databases like EBSCO. Usually you can do those searches online as well, so you can look up some rare study about a topic.

archive.org has free ebooks on it in which the copyright has expired. This means that you can download thousands of books for nothing. Likewise Project Guttenberg has thousands of books for free in this category.
[link to archive.org]
[link to www.gutenberg.org]

Realize that old information is not necessarily valid. You have to continue to research and ensure that it is. In many cases someone picked up the baton, and like a relay race carried the research onward.

Having a resource library is crucial. These documents can downloaded and stored on a USB hard drive. This means that you could potential recover them at will and this would be among your treasures.

You might be the only person in your community with that knowledgebase. You might end up becoming a community leader or teacher or shaman.
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 06:30 PM
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Christians and Suffering and the Rapture

Probably less than 5% of my postings are Christian. It's deliberately done because that's a personal choice and my goal is teach prepping. This post is aimed at Christians, so if you don't believe or don't want to hear it, then I'd skip reading this one.

A lot of Christians think that when things start to get bad and collapse, that somehow Jesus will appear in the clouds, be visible around the world, and that the true Christians will be taken in an instant and NOT have to suffer through a tribulation.

I don't believe that to be true. If we look at any period in history, Christians have suffered for their beliefs, and I cannot hope that we'll be saved from the Tribulation. It might happen, as it's certainly a very deep topic and extremely complex. I think it's far better to assume that we'll suffer and prepare for it, then to hope to avoid all of the suffering.

I am fearful that many Christians will NOT prepare for this reason. Some to me seem like the foolish maidens who didn't prepare for the bridegroom. They think that since they can just purchase their food from grocery stores every three days, that's it's not necessary to be like their grandparents who stored up food in pantries. Their grandparents and their great-grandparents knew times of great hardship, learned pioneer skills because it was pragmatic to do so, could hunt and fish and trap. They could identify a tree or shrub or herb. They knew how to preserve it. They didn't waste money on things that gave instant gratification, but instead saved their money and purchased items which in turn saved them money. Which way seems more Biblical?
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Matthew 25: 1-13

Those who believe in being saved from such hardship, well in a way it's like not being sympathetic to those who don't believe. After all, since they're going to avoid that, then why worry about it? They feel like, “Hey, my family and I are safe now that we believe. All is well and abundant.” This way seems very obtuse and uncaring and hardly Biblical. It's not the way of a servant.

Worse, some pastors actually teach this. This makes me shudder. They twist the Scriptures and tell people not to prepare since God provides. If that is so, then why work at all? Why not sit at home and watch TV? After all, God provides. It's as if the story of Joseph in the Old Testament is totally forgotten.

There is a deep wrongness in such belief. Can you imagine if suddenly all of the Christians all over the world didn't put up surplus food? Imagine doing that in 3rd world nations? I guess they think that American Christians are special and better? I don't get it whatsoever.

In some cases, I actually have been told that some husband or wives would like to learn to prep and store things, but their spouse told them not to, or worse they got the pastor to tell the would-be prepper that it wasn't necessary or Biblical. Since when do you not work out things by talking rationally with your spouse and intentionally praying for discernment? In any other time in history, would spouses or pastors agree that not being ill-prepared was Biblical? I doubt it.

If you don't think it's necessary in this generation to do so, then why was it necessary in previous generations? Can you not see the signs of the times? Are you so smug as to assume that all is well? Have you spent time in prayer and fasted and looked to God for answers?

Please consider that the Rapture may happen far later. We might certainly suffer. How much more important will it be to have prepared and then help those who don't believe? You might bring people to Christ during that time.
MzTreeChick

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11/13/2012 06:40 PM
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'..God helps those that help themselves..'






hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Creating your own master reference manual(s)

Earlier I mentioned ink, paper, and bookbinding. Luckily today you have the opportunity to create your own journals without going to all of that trouble. Yes, it will certainly be useful for you later post-collapse, but how much easier would it be to prepare today?

You can do that by sitting down with paper and pen and writing a plan. I've discussed that before, but maybe most of you read that, but never did that. Do it right away.

No doubt you've learned some things over the last year and a half, and some of you have made notes. That's fine, but as a beginner, what you think is important is different that what is important. I'm hoping that you begin to grasp that prepping is complex and personalized, but that many old timers have been down this journey. They usually want to save you pointless heartache, but no doubt you'll have your own plans that are different than their knowledge and experiences.

This means you must synthesize what you need to refer back to while prepping. In an ideal journal, you'll make notes inside the reference, or you will create a specific journal that goes with that reference. Writing in your book is a good thing, but in the beginning what you think is true, may end up not being true. A better way is the latter.

For example, you may have started a small library for gardening. That's usually the most common way people get interested in prepping. Since that knowledge is in several books, why don't you photocopy the pages that are most important like companion planting, then create a blank page for writing notes. Maybe have a germination table in there too. Maybe a height table so you don't overshadow other plants. In subsequent pages create a vegetable page for a specific one. Say broccoli, and then write what you tried in the first Spring season. When did you plant? Was it based upon a set time or because of weather? When did it germinate? Being optimistic here, did you put out transplants? When did you side dress it? When did you first harvest from it? Did it seem like certain plants grew better? Why do you think that happened? Did you notice hail coming down or more than average rain? When? How much? How did you protect it? What was your yields per plant? All of these are good things to document.

Now re-read everything you have about broccoli. Did you get cabbage moths? When did you see your first cabbage worms? Did you pretreat the plants in order to prevent these pests? Are there any diseases that you got on them? Did anything seem to help? Did any of your neighbors report anything different that your own results? Can you replicate their successes? Does anything in your book explain a better way? Have you yourself learned a better way?

Do this for every season that you plant that veggie, and then next Winter when you're planning the garden, maybe you move the plants around because you've learned from your successes and errors. Yes, you can buy an expensive gardening journal. Most of the time though people end up not using them. It's far better to make one yourself. You'll find a series of tips, and then most likely in your own words write that down. It is wise to see what kinds of journals there are and how they're organized though. Of course do that.

Keep those old garden plans. It may be that four years down the road you realize, “Say year two was really our best because of ____.” Or maybe several areas were good in one year, while in other years other parts were good. Analyze why this was. Then create a new plan based upon your thinking.

Now you're slowly becoming an author. Show your children what you're doing. Explain to them why this or that is done, when to water, fertilize, harvest, etc. Let them be your allies and helpers. If you get sick, or if worse happens, then they can shoulder your burdens. Don't be the sole person who knows how to do a job. That's a very poor strategy.

All of this seems like nonsense to a nonprepper who simply buys their food from the grocery store, however you're learning the best way to produce the most food and in the cheapest way for your family. That is practical and the beginning of wisdom. It seems like folly only to the lazy.

You can waste a lot of money and effort by not working efficiently. In a collapse you'll be working harder than you do in your forty hour a week job. There's countless things to do. Work smarter, not longer.

This means mulching to save on weeding, and not hurting your back as much from stooping. This means carefully planning rainwater irrigation so your yields are good despite the lack of rain in certain seasons. This means pretreating anticipated pest issues. If you do that coupled with good planning, then you'll probably work half as hard. That's a lot of hours that can be spent in trapping, repairing, fishing, water gathering, etc. Maybe you'll actually get some rest!

Do this with the most common references that you have. Most of the pages will be blank at first with only reference tables within, but in a year's time, it will fill. Examine, challenge, and reanalyze your assertions. Are they valid? Thin out what isn't necessary.

Over time you'll assemble a series of books that will help your children do the same process. It may be that you'll become the master gardener in your community and you end teaching novices how to do the same. You could end up helping a lot of people by creating more food to fill their bellies. You also will expand their minds to possibilities too.
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 11:13 PM
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Biogas

The most likely long term adaptation for dealing with human waste post-collapse will be Biogas. It's merely the digestion of manure or green garden waste into methane. This methane is combusible and that means it can be used to heat homes, use a stove, or run a generator. Here's a proof of concept video. This system is done much cheaper in 3rd world nations. Mr Culhane has many videos on projects in Egypt, Nigeria, and Peru.


[link to www.appropedia.org]

This method is far superior to using human waste through composting. Most likely rabbits and goats will be raised and their waste will be composted for the garden.
Anonymous Coward
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11/13/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
More detailed information about Biogas:
[link to practicalaction.org]
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 12:17 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Contagion: Treating Pertussis (Whooping Cough) post-collapse

What does whooping cough sound and look like:


What historical information do we have about pertussis? What treatment was used prior to antibiotics?

[link to forms.asm.org]

What natural remedies could we reasonably use if there are no medicines?
[link to www.motherearthliving.com]

If you have a child with whooping cough. Please see your doctor right away. This post is only about how to treat it post-collapse.

If there were a collapse, then you need to two do three things:
1. Make them comfortable. The spasm is what exacerbates the condition.
2. Garlic infusions used to kill bacteria and remove mucus ( an expectorant). This is a primary issue.
3. An antispasmotic herb combination: ginger ang honey.

Loading up on vitamin C is a very good thing as a preventative.

Contagion is a big issue post-collapse. People must self-segregate away from others when ill. The main issue is children playing together when sick. This is teaching point for your children to learn: when there's a collapse, we don't play with children who are complaining about headache, feeling hot or chilled, coughing, feeling achey.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 12:29 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Contagion: Whooping Cough that leads to Pleurisy


[link to www.emedicinehealth.com]

A deep breathe causes a sharp pain. This is a result of rubbing of the pleura, the lining of the lungs.

[link to www.herbs2000.com]

Usually treated with ibuprofen.

Usually antibiotics offer no real benefit. Sometimes it's given to patient and family, the latter as a preventative move.

You need mullein tea (previously discussed) and horsetail to heal the lung tissue.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 12:37 AM
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Helpful Herbs: Horsetail

Horsetail is found throughout the USA.
[link to plants.usda.gov]

Here's a video showing what it looks like:


Here's more information about it:
[link to www.herbwisdom.com]
[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

Like the ginko, horsetail is an ancient plant that's often called a living fossil.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 12:47 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If the Rapture comes and Christians haven't prepared with supplies, then it matters not. If they have prepared, then the supplies can be used by others since they don't need it.

If the Rapture comes midway or later during the Tribulation, and one hasn't prepared, then one will likely be dead. If one is prepared, then they may survive for a time.

Seems logical to prepare.
MzTreeChick

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11/14/2012 02:42 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If the Rapture comes and Christians haven't prepared with supplies, then it matters not. If they have prepared, then the supplies can be used by others since they don't need it.

If the Rapture comes midway or later during the Tribulation, and one hasn't prepared, then one will likely be dead. If one is prepared, then they may survive for a time.

Seems logical to prepare.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


This is my thought also, if not my family then someone else.

Good to know I'm not alone, IF there is an after, hope to see you and the OP on the other side.





hf rockon
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 03:07 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If the Rapture comes and Christians haven't prepared with supplies, then it matters not. If they have prepared, then the supplies can be used by others since they don't need it.

If the Rapture comes midway or later during the Tribulation, and one hasn't prepared, then one will likely be dead. If one is prepared, then they may survive for a time.

Seems logical to prepare.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


This is my thought also, if not my family then someone else.

Good to know I'm not alone, IF there is an after, hope to see you and the OP on the other side.





hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


I am the OP. I've written 95% of the posts here. I deleted quite a few, and trying to slowly recall what I wrote.
MzTreeChick

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11/14/2012 06:13 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If the Rapture comes and Christians haven't prepared with supplies, then it matters not. If they have prepared, then the supplies can be used by others since they don't need it.

If the Rapture comes midway or later during the Tribulation, and one hasn't prepared, then one will likely be dead. If one is prepared, then they may survive for a time.

Seems logical to prepare.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


This is my thought also, if not my family then someone else.

Good to know I'm not alone, IF there is an after, hope to see you and the OP on the other side.





hf rockon
 Quoting: MzTreeChick


I am the OP. I've written 95% of the posts here. I deleted quite a few, and trying to slowly recall what I wrote.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


tounge sorry OP thought a lurker had joined us


5a
* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)
old guard

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11/14/2012 08:31 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Contagion: Treating Pertussis (Whooping Cough) post-collapse

What does whooping cough sound and look like:


What historical information do we have about pertussis? What treatment was used prior to antibiotics?

[link to forms.asm.org]

What natural remedies could we reasonably use if there are no medicines?
[link to www.motherearthliving.com]

If you have a child with whooping cough. Please see your doctor right away. This post is only about how to treat it post-collapse.

If there were a collapse, then you need to two do three things:
1. Make them comfortable. The spasm is what exacerbates the condition.
2. Garlic infusions used to kill bacteria and remove mucus ( an expectorant). This is a primary issue.
3. An antispasmotic herb combination: ginger ang honey.

Loading up on vitamin C is a very good thing as a preventative.

Contagion is a big issue post-collapse. People must self-segregate away from others when ill. The main issue is children playing together when sick. This is teaching point for your children to learn: when there's a collapse, we don't play with children who are complaining about headache, feeling hot or chilled, coughing, feeling achey.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


Drinking Coltsfoot tea with honey will quiet the cough.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:57 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Possible timeline of death in a world-wide post-collapse scenario

Three days to one month
People need water in three days. As their thirst increases they'll use supplies that are pure, but then of lower and lower purity based upon the thirst mechanism. Remember this, people don't drink water very well based upon the thirst mechanism. Many are disconnected from understanding when they are dehydrated today. It's only because the live in a post-modern society with running water and supplies and don't have to collect water so that they survive.

As one dehydrates, one begins to have lower cognition. Critical thinking declines and any water source will be deemed as “tolerable”. As this happens, impure water will be consumed. Pollutants from contaminated groundwater will kill some, but many will continue to survive for a time. Amebic dysentery will affect many from coliform bacteria from animal or human fecal matter. Many deaths occur from this from cross-contamination, followed by cholera and a host of immune system insults. Generalized weakness accelerates in the host, and those people lose the ability to care for themselves and for their family. The weaker members relying upon stronger ones to gather water will die: elderly, infants, toddlers, older children, etc.

People need shelter to protect themselves from exposure especially in Winter. If it happened today November 14, 2012 in temperate climates in North America, and if people bugged out from urban areas in a mass exodus, we could expect to see many people to fall prey to violence, dehydration, theft of supplies leading to malnutrition, depressed immune system responses from the cold, outright exposure from lowered temperatures without adequate clothing or shelter or firemaking ability, or a combination of all of the above.

Many people have prepared 72 hour kits to help them transition to safer areas, but don't have hunting, trapping, or fishing ability. Even if there were lots of wildlife to gather, so many new hunters will cause animals to evade them or the successful ones will overhunt the wildlife areas and kill them off.

Unless they have the experience of living in the wild and avoiding exposure then they will probably die within a week. They will get weaker and weaker as they travel without a way to supplement their blood glucose to maintain consciousness. They'll get sleepy and sloppy. Mistakes will lead to getting lost, falling into a ravine, get injured and can't walk or break a bone, fall to predation from other bugging out people.

People can survive up to three months without food as long as they are sedentary. If not, and looking for firewood, water, and other activities, then they'll die sooner.

Bugging out folks looking for shelter in less urban areas will be turned away from the towns. They won't be needing people unless they have very high skill levels of rare abilities. Some will be violently repelled.

People on medications (who haven't filled their prescriptions for three months) will begin to have less and less medication in their blood. The decline of the medication will begin to show effects in as little as a week. Renewed blood pressure issues will suddenly increase especially under increased work load. Many heart attacks occur. Many who don't have blood thinners will begin to form micro-clots and many of these thrombo-embolisms create strokes. They become paralyzed on one side and therefore unable to care for themselves or communicate. They throw a clot, like a saddle embolism, and can't breathe.

Others who can't gather herbs to control blood sugar begin to see higher and higher blood sugar when they can test it. Eventually they won't be able to test it and must guess. The ones with Type I diabetes will die based upon the natural progression of their illness if they already have circulation issues or eyesight loss. Both of those pre-existing conditions will lead to less foraging capability. The less healthy will die, then the older diabetics.

Mass die offs in nursing homes. Many elderly die in their homes.

Three months
Many people are barely surviving based upon lack of food. A great extinction has occurred from all of the above. Some who have survived have looted from stores to supplement their food supply, or found materials to help them acquire a food supply. Some will have died in the process as it become similar to Nature and the survival of the fittest.

Gangs will probably die unless they adapt are lead by intelligent leadership. New gangs will form based upon a desire of using numbers to overwhelm prepared people with supplies.

In order to attack prepared people or liberate supplies, gang members will need a lot of calories far exceeding their normal diet. It's very heavy activity to move around that much searching, standing watch, scouting, fighting, etc. Many will be unable to acquire enough calories by this method and will die. Cannibalism is to be expected.

Many people have died from lack of medications. The ones who made it three months were in a second tier of younger more healthy people who were able to adapt but had supplies and clean water. Eventually though they ran low on supplies, got dehydrated, illness set in, and were too weak to gather enough firewood to cope.

Many died from ingesting what little food they could find that was of very low quality. The food was either spoiled, ill-prepared and caused bacterial infections, was low in calories, wasn't really edible (some will try eating what grass they can find...it happened during the Ethiopia famine). Some will have extended flour with things as fillers that really isn't nutritious. In history this often is sawdust. Many will have eaten rats, gopher, or other creatures that had disease of one kind or another, and so they became weakened and sick from ingesting it.

As food becomes unavailable in urban areas, many will leave on foot. Gasoline will have been used either to heat or to attempt transportation away from the areas or for power generation. Many of the weakened people attempting to leave will die having no survival skills in the wild and fall prey to the same events as the first tier.

Six months
Up to 90% of the populace have died. Those with supplies ran out of food slowly, but had no idea how to garden or hunt or trap or fish. They attempt it, but are weakened. There's an increase in animal activity and the ones who are more successful acquiring animals will make it.

There are no obese people anymore. People's faces are very gaunt and drawn. There's a lot of bitterness. Most of the depressed people, schizophrenics, drug abusers, etc have died. Many became suicidal. Many in effect became suicidal since they stopped self-care and slowly declined and then gave up.

Many children have died. A reduced ability to find food, accidents, illness, dehydration, etc have killed them. A lack of parents or guardians means that few coped. Some found help, but as food stores ran down, they were turned away. It will follow historical patterns.

The die-off of so many people without burials will lead to eventual groundwater contamination. Waves and waves of epidemics kill survivors. Very few people who bugged out have survived unless they went to safe places with long term food supplies and are planting gardens.

Nine months
Many new gardeners cannot produce enough food to save themselves. There's nothing left to hunt, fish, or trap anymore. This causes changes in the forest and meadows. Animals retreat into the wild areas. Eventually their numbers will increase based upon the lack of predation there. Only people who take long hunting trips will be able to acquire them, but at great risk of returning to their tribes.

A host of nutritional deficiencies leads to blindness, weakness, secondary bacterial infections, parasites, etc. These kill many.

Most of the gangs have died. They only had power as long as they had weapons and strength. Unless they had long-term skills to create food, then they can't make it from foraging upon survivors. There are less and less survivors on which to prey upon, and the lower success rate means that many gang members turn upon themselves.

Few people can preserve food adequately. Much of the food is eaten as it is harvested. Starvation occurs in a strong way among survivors without supplies to pull from. Many of the strong ones die.

A year
95% of the population has died. What few people remain have very high skill levels, have learned to preserve food by extraordinary means, have raised livestock to provide routine protein. They have clean water. Their homes are warm and safe. They have weapons other than firearms to protect themselves as most ammunition is gone.

Much of the remaining animals have departed from any areas formerly occupied by humans. Those that do remain if they survive the winter may repopulate the areas slowly since there's no longer that many humans there. Many of these areas have high bacterial counts in the water, but those animals who are strong and have adapted will survive it.

Two years
Fewer humans means less possibility of finding marriageable partners based upon finding love. People will become less and less picky based upon finding providers (bunkered people with tons of supplies) and those with very high skill levels.

Some communities have pulled together. These may be very few in number, merely surviving families of preppers. Some intermarriage begins as not only natural attraction, but also alliances strengthen the community.

Smart communities recruit from nearby survivor communities. They look for those with technical ability outside their own.

The ones who make it have preserved old knowledge and use it daily in creative way to increase security. This means some replanting of forests is occurring, wells have been dug and most likely cisterns. All have rabbits and goats and probably some with bee operations. Some milling of flour is happening. Some ethanol production is in operation. Some generate power from hydroelectricity and solar.

Most heat using rocket mass stoves unless they have lots of firewood available. Still it's the most likely scenario based upon protecting wood for tools and lumber. Many use solar ovens in the summertime. Some biogas operations in warm climates that create enough average temperature to produce methane efficiently or at least seasonally. Most tribes have wood-gas generators.

Many will be harvesting materials from their environments in order to repair and maintain equipment.
Some peddling will occur. These people move from area to area creating trade networks. The collect things like salt from the coast and move inland to trade for locally produced items or found items like tools, sewing needles, textiles, shoes, etc. Fuel will be unavailable so they will operate by having horses to transport themselves or they will more likely travel on rivers.

This means that those places around rivers will act as hubs. Some trade will occur based upon proximity, and then smaller trades based upon the movement of the peddlers. Some go-between people will profit by trading.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Possible timeline of death of post-collapse scenario if self-sufficient communities form
(Probable only if a slow decline)

If there is a slow decline in being able to provide for individuals and families, then some adaptation will occur. Some intelligent folks will begin to learn skills, eat more cheaply to provide adequate nutrition, and begin gardening this Spring. Some will decide that it's wise to raise small animals for regular protein consumption and also lower their food costs.

This will not go unnoticed by mass media. More and more articles will be written about local production of food and it's preservation. More articles about sewing, knitting, leather-making and crafting, mechanical repair, energy generation, carpentry, hunting, and trapping.

When there's a rise in an activity, usually by corollary there's a rejection of that activity. The people who embrace the return to old skills will be labeled “Luddites”. They will be mocked in general by those who feel it's an anti-intellectual movement.

More homeschooling occurs. A movement to decrease real estate taxes happens in response to lower real estate values coupled with less people having children in public school systems. A sharp decrease in government insured college loans. Lower employment among teachers and administration and support crews. Fewer young people attend college or universities due to less availability to work in those potential professions. Some increase in technical colleges, but even here less work initially leads to lower census at these schools. Long-term an increase in employment in those technical professions if “buying locally” becomes successful.

Self-reliance will become a common mantra. People will desire to purchase locally produced items paid for by a fair wage. People won't have money to purchase new things, and will insist that when they do buy things it will only happen by trading for them quietly by barter. Many people will become craftsmen and technicians in order to be able to trade items and acquire rarer and rarer affordable things and food.

Water prices rise. Strong rainwater legislation is enacted. More people will dig wells. More people will purify water rather than rely upon city water purity. Many will learn how to purify water at least by creating their own created charcoal systems. Some people will begin to make charcoal. More people will make biosand filters rather than purchasing water bottles. All of this will happen even worse if the drought continues.

Very high taxes are enacted, while simultaneously less government workers are needed. Severe cutbacks happen and as they do, many businesses falter which relied upon government contracts.

Fewer and fewer people go to restaurants and bars. Many of the young educated people who have taken jobs in this service industry become unemployed. Healthcare legislation results in very few full-time positions. Part-time people with declining gratuities will leave because it will make little sense to stay.

A big drop in new pornography. New laws requiring condom use and less demand will result in far fewer productions. Less people will be able to afford Internet use. Less people will be able to attend stripper bars. Some few performers will become prostitutes. Higher and higher drug abuse will occur among those who remain.

Very high unemployment leads to people rioting. If it happens as slowly as it has happened in Greece and Spain, then probably it won't occur until it reaches 25%. Cutbacks in government aid may occur, but will be so politically unpalatable that most politicians won't do this.

Many unemployed people with time on their hands will become preppers in order to survive. It will be a natural thing to do as a sign of being pragmatic. Churches will begin to teach prepping, but won't call it that. It will be labeled “frugality” as that's less emotional a term.

Many more people will attempt hunting and fishing. Many people in rural areas will begin trapping quietly. Many people will begin poaching, and you will see an increase in game wardens getting involved. Some of these will altercations will become violent. Tacitly ignoring the issue will occur due to lack of enough game wardens and too many people doing it. Higher hunter injuries send several to the ER and on to surgery.

People cut back on gift giving, and many create their own presents. Most presents are practical gifts. Far few electronic gifts are purchased.

Less demand to luxuries means less movies are produced. Lower support of art in general. Schools begin teaching less art and more practical arts instead.

Some new communities will form in rural areas in which people “gift” items rather than call it bartering. Of course it's a euphemism for trading skills and abilities, but will avoid revenue and provide cheap services. It'll be an act of survival.

The successful ones will prosper. Lower incomes result in a cascade of lower state and local government services and it will feed into the developing phenomena. As the populist movement increases, more politicians will cope by switching sides, becoming supporters, or new politicians will be elected who support the movement.

Those who don't act frugally and prepare will be labeled as less educated and aware. Social forces will apply pressure for people to adapt by teaching their children new skills or abilities based upon learning old previously thought archaic agricultural methods. More young people become farmers or ranchers but if there's a drought they there will be a lot of failures.

Some influential people communicate ideas about living frugally and closer to nature. A new “Back to the Land” movement begins in earnest and some pilot communities like the old communes develop. Some of these are religious; some are “permies”; some are sexual; all will have similar political and philosophical ethos. All will be along a wide continuum of beliefs. These communities will grow their own food and animals, grow their own feed, have wells, produce their own energy, have their own industries, create their own clothing and shoes, educate themselves, etc. These communities will seek out professional people with skills to form a more self-reliant community that won't need an outside doctor or veterinarian, law enforcement, firemen, legal specialists, teachers, etc.

Existing urban places will decline into anarchy in some congested areas. In those places people are not self-reliant. With a decline in government services, more and more uncertainty will develop there. Many attempt to leave and few are accepted in small communities due to lack of skills or technical ability. Some will be able to transition. Some will claim discrimination.

Wealth will be measured in self-reliance versus digital instruments of stock, gold, bonds, etc. Most people will have lost their retirement funds due to mismanagement of investments. Only those who learn skills can hope to survive into old age.

Deaths begin to occur due to malnutrition and lack of medical care. Routine illnesses become exacerbated by this. Many elective surgeries don't happen. Less and less people are able to live in long term care facilities or nursing homes. Socialized medicine has happened, but practical issues such as a lack of nurses, a lack of investment in pharmaceutical research, low employment, etc will mean it will have a negligible effect.

Higher and higher child abuse occurs from the Malthusian stresses. Many cases of outright neglect. Very high child infant mortality in some areas.

An increase in murder, rape, violence, burglary, etc particularly in urban areas. An increase in acts of murder from acts of passion in less urban areas from people having more firearms. Stronger rioting occurs in urban areas and spills over in large communities that can't be self-reliant. It degenerates from there.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:42 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Simple wired communication system


With this setup, you'd need to purchase working military surplus and D cells and you'd use the existing phone wire after a SHTF event. You'd centralize the phones most probably by precinct communication captains and leadership.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:47 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Make a D cell with coils, cardboard, and a AA cell.
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11/14/2012 09:51 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
How to recharge a battery from a scrap solar light, a cordless rechargable drill, and a minimum of equipment (like alligator clips and wire some scrap battery holders recycled from household electronic devices.

Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Drinking Coltsfoot tea with honey will quiet the cough.
 Quoting: old guard


There are certain mutagens in Coltsfoot, and as a result it's not recommended for infants to drink that tea. See:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to www.webmd.com]

The latter is very authoritative. It should be noted that there have been a few isolated cases of toxicity, and as a result some banning of it's use.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Youtube videos

Whenever you have spare time, learn how to use aps to download youtube videos. Many browsers like Firefox have simple ways of saving the files. Once you do that, watch and rewatch them and use them as practical guides, not mere entertainment.

Watch important ones like Dave Cantebury's survival/bushcraft series.Cherish Paul Wheartons's videos on permaculture and the people who follow it called permies.

These are excellent resources and will be the means of surviving and thriving into future generations.

Dave Cantebury's videos:
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Paul Wheaton's videos:
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 01:39 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
What's your talent?

Not that long ago, I was at a party. Many of the people at the part were making small talk, but some of them were “working the room”. They'd go from group to group, introduce themselves in a clever way, tell a joke, tell a story, explain what they did as an occupation, tell a story about a successful job they'd done within their occupation, tell another joke, then pass out business cards.

I've done this too. It's a way to get new immediate business, but often as not it's more about making a good impression and potential new business in the future. It is in essence the first meeting you've ever had with someone, and this “tone” sets up trust. If insincere, it will come off as hollow and false, and their BS detector will being going off like a loud klaxon.

Many times we're evaluated in the first 15 seconds of meeting someone. If you haven't made a good impression in the first ten-fifteen minutes, chances are people are not going to really want to be around you or give you a second opportunity.

Think about dating. It's the same way. Sure some people might be easier to date than others, but it's in that first encounter that attractiveness is noticed.

In a SHTF scenario, you'll be planning your own methods of dealing with the collapse. In time, you'll be communicating with your neighbors and forming a tighter knit real community. Whatever experiences you had in the past will carry forward into the future. If you've helped them when their car is stuck in snow, let them inside when they've been locked out, helped their children if they fell and got a scrape, etc then it will be a lot easier. You'll be considered an altruistic “good Joe”.

Many times we don't know our neighbors, and so you'll be “working the crowd” when you meet them in a general way post-collapse. You have moments to make an impression and communicate why they should trust you.

The only way for this to work is to be sincere and have plans and be able to communicate your talent. If you don't have a talent, just an idea, then you'll be labeled a “dreamer”. If you aren't sincere, then no one will trust you. Why should they? If you can't be bothered to speak in slow calm ways with persuasive words and speak clearly and confidently, then why would they listen?

In the absence of authority, people need answers. In the short term, people expect to be rescued. If their level of skills and supplies is very low, then they'll expect being rescued more. The more talents, supplies, and usually the depth of spirituality, then sometimes they perceive the seriousness of a disaster. This group may be willing to listen to a community plan versus the weak notion of being rescued.

Eventually people want answers and direction, because most people are followers not leaders. They want someone to tell them it's going to be alright. They want someone with a plan and confidence and goodness. They want someone with skills and can communicate and is trustworthy. You must be those things even if you don't desire leadership. It might be that you end up as a follower but you temporarily help organize. It might be that you help facilitate the process by recruiting the natural leader and giving them allegiance.

Regardless learning to become a good communicator, learning skills, and then demonstrating them clearly in minimal time is what it's going to take to help people as things decline into a collapse.

Many times, I've given tips over the last year and a half, and it's usually about seizing the initiative. You have a short window in which to organize, and if you miss that window, it could become dog-eat-dog and that benefits no one.

Imagine this. Let's say that you're one of the bug out crowd. You arrive dirty, tired, hungry, with parasites, fleas, and most likely some illness from your journey from your urban center to a small town that's safer. The ONLY way that they'll admit you and your family is if it's in the best interest of the community that has survived and evolved. Can you in those first minutes of contact plead your case?

You'll have to. Many of us aren't good communicators. We grunt at wives or girlfriends. We can be dour. We are used to being well-fed, rested, healthy, fully hydrated, etc. When we feel out of sorts, we naturally get grumpy.

If you are among the bugout crowd, unless you can impress your new neighbors in seconds, then they won't listen to you whatsoever. You'll be perceived as a drifter, and since drifters are known to commit crimes and be problems for the sheriff, then they won't want you around.

Let's say that you're wandering through someone's property. Do you really think you'll talk your way out of it? I doubt it...not post-collapse. The only ones who can make it for a limited time sheltering in the forests will be those who avoid populated areas and hole up in makeshift shelters. Since there's limited food there unless you've got advanced foraging and hunting skills, you'll eventually seek out agricultural towns.

There are many good reasons why civilizations evolved from hunter-gatherer societies into tribal farming. It's too difficult for even good hunters to make it for very long. This means that eventually you'll seek out these towns. By then, if you've avoided them for awhile, they may have had many negative experiences with fleeing city folk. You must impress them with a prepared speech of why they should allow you to be there living among them.

If you don't have skills, then what you should be doing right now is learning them. Not just theoretical, but practical ways of surviving and coping in the short, interim, and long term. This means committing that knowledge to paper and then developing the best persuasive words to communicate it.

If you look different, talk different, act different, well why would you expect suspicious people to believe you. They don't know you and now they can't verify anything that you say. For all they know you're a serial killer or rapist or child molester. You're a big unknown and hence a major security risk. This means that you have to not only say what you can do, but show what you can do. Most people that have talents can do that in ten minutes or less.

If you have mechanical ability, then show them by demonstrating it on a car or piece of nearby equipment. Explain what a gear box is. Point out pulleys and name the parts. Explain that this or that needs maintenance and how you'd fix it.

Let's say you're a medical person. Ask about what sicknesses they've had. What kind of symptoms are usually seen in those illnesses? What kinds of medicines are used to treat them? How long is the recovery?

If you've served in the military, explain about the battles you've been in. What kind of weapons were used? What tactics? How many people did you command?

Whatever your ability, you need to be able to clearly make it known that the skills you have are what the town needs. You won't have long to tell them, and the longer it takes to explain it, the less of a chance they'll believe you.
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11/15/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
The difference between a survivalist and a prepper and someone who bugs out

In the old days, say 1970 or so, a lot of returning veterans saw that there were issues in this country. Their military service was discounted. They were considered evil and tools of a branch of capitalism that exported military armaments around the world. It was shocking to them, but understandable since they'd become enmeshed in limited warfare in Vietnam and Cambodia. It was an idea of opposing communism in 3rd world nations by the intervention of democratic forces from Western nations but supporting brutal dictatorships. It polarized the nation of the United States and was a dismal failure.

In a world that had created nuclear weapons, no one could reasonably use them. The superpowers of the USSR, China, and the USA had them, and so even though the weapons were supremely powerful, to begin an exchange of nuclear weapons would lead to Mutually Assured Destruction. At the time, many military folks felt a deep distrust of any communist, a feeling equally expressed by the other side. It was a stalemate. Some felt that eventually “dominoes” would tumble, a metaphor for foreign nations that accepted communism as an economic system. Since those nations intervened in far flung places, just like the United States, it was inevitable that attrition would eventually mean world-wide communism.

Since many Western nations (NATO) had accepted socialism, and since there were similarities with that economic system and communism, it was felt that they too were prey to eventually becoming communist nations. Of course that's not entirely logical, but bear with me. In addition, these nations also had nuclear weapons, and so the USSR and China began supplying nuclear weapons to Warsaw Pact nations under their aegis. Other nations like Israel and India had nuclear weapons, later Pakistan, and so at some point some of those nations might also begin a nuclear exchange.

Since nuclear exchange was most probably fatal to both sides, other weapons of mass destruction were also invented. Biological weapons which infected the opposing side had been used since medieval days. At that time, trebuchets, which were early siege weapons which hurls rocks as artillery, could also throw diseased cows or dead bodies to either side, and hence cause a plague. Biological weapons could infect the opposite side, but then how could anyone reasonably invade post-attack? Chemical weapons were also invented which released nerve agents to paralyze and permanently cripple or kill the enemy, but of course would create a toxic soup lying around and decontamination would be an ecological nightmare.

Because of that, some military folks felt that it was best to prepare for their survival. The primary concern was nuclear. They termed themselves “survivalists”. They planned ways to live in a post-apocalyptic world that probably was dismal at best even if only a few weapons were launched on either side. Since all computer wargaming proved that once an exchange began, it probably would cascade by allies becoming involved with secondary targets, it seemed improbable that any nation would be left unscathed. The air and water would ultimately be inundated with radioactive isotopes, and what few people didn't die in initial hits to urban areas, would probably die in subsequent pollution as it circled the globe.

Some felt that there would be safer zones away from the primary areas, and so there might be pockets of humanity that would survive. It was terribly grim, but only a means of clinging to life by the most tenuous means.

At the same time, many books were written which dealt with ecology. There was a renewal of people interested in agricultural practices since people felt that “getting back to the land” would solve a lot of society's ills. It became a world-wide phenomena. Some were interested in biodynamic intensive farming(Alan Chadwick). Some felt that not tilling the soil would result in higher yields long-term (Masanobu Fukuoka).

In the USA, many people became attracted to the idea. Some were ex-hippies, who had embraced the ideas of peace and love (by great over-generalization). They originally attempted to use organic gardening to produce their food, a radical idea that proposed not using chemical fertilizers since it caused hard-pan in the soil, but to use long term rock dusts to slowly create strong root systems. They also proposed strengthening the soil by using composts and green manure, an idea of tilling under organic vegetable matter. In addition, they composted their own manure as well.

The idea spread to religious communities. Others were children of farmers, and became attracted to the positive ideas of the movement, and took the ideas and combined the ideas of their ancestors synthesizing this into a homestead movement. All of them experimented with both traditional and organic methods to find a balanced approach.

Magazines like Mother Earth News came into being because there were enough people interested in the ideas. It made sense since there was so much doom and gloom from the idea of mutually assured destruction that an opposite idea of Hope began to bloom.

Simultaneously, there were many people interested in bushcraft. These people were often interested in history, and wanted to learn how people lived long ago during the pioneer and tribal era. Many were already hunters or fisherman. Many were country boys or farmers. How did people start fires? How did they forage for plants and herbs? How did they trap or hunt or fish? How did they build shelters. People interested in preparing, either those who worried about doom or those who wanted to learn more skills and were more optimistic, decided to learn some bushcraft too. See Tom Brown or later Dave Canterbury.

Likewise, some people rejected modern medicine. They saw a lot of people not getting healthier by technology, only living longer into decrepitude. They wondered about how medicine used to be in ancient times. They studied herbalism like Kampo in the East, or simply Native American tribal lore in the West or Ayurveda in India (Chopra). Some preppers decided that in the event of a collapse or disaster, they might become their own doctors and therefore learned medicine and herbalism as new skillsets.

In life, people will take ideas and begin to pick and choose from what's available as an ethos and form their own new philosophy. This became the basis for the modern preppers of today.

They began to see that world governments were not really working for their best interest. Economic intervention by the Federal Reserve meant that all countries were tied together mostly to help a handful of corporations. Because centralized governments spend more than they can ever hope to bring in through taxes, great concern was raised about the eventual stability of nations.

While it was possible for a plague to accidentally be released, or chemical weapons accidentally leaked, or a limited nuclear exchange, the more likely issue would be a global economic issue similar to a Great Depression. This would only concentrate the power of the global corporations similar to the increased power of the elite in the US just prior to the Great Depression. In that event, the rich had sold assets prior to the Crash, and then repurchased assets as bargain prices. Then they'd invested in military armaments as World War II came about.

Some preppers were more concerned with doom. They worried about weather changes which seemed to either be happening cyclically or by design or by “global warming”. They worried about technological issues like Y2K. They saw odd coincidences in the spread of disease like H1N1 and worried about pandemics. Since we'd had major pandemics in history and they seem to go in cycles, then it was felt that another was inevitable. Other increases in earthquakes worried some preppers. Areas like the New Madrid zone and its history made them consider the cyclical issue of another serious quake. The same was true about EMP and the Carrington Event.

As more and more people began to prep for any of the above reasons, others mostly mocked the ideas. Still, there were persuasive and very real historical precedents for the concern.

Some began to see that half-measures might be necessary in order to cope with a disaster. Any of the issues might cause a need to bugout from their locations, and so if they purchased a few items, and placed them in a bag which could easily be carried, then they might be able to move from their urban areas. Since those urban areas might be most affected, and since those areas were the least likely to be sustainable, then they'd buggout to a rural area. Most had a minimum of equipment and skills. They'd synthesized their own thinking of survival to making it for 72 hours longer. Of course this meant ultimately relying upon the grace of rural folks.

This is where we are today. People who prepare, fit somewhere along this long continuum. You have to decide where you are mentally, physically, and spiritually.

To me, the most beneficial place is be optimistic and hopeful and learn deeply with skills and supplies. Becoming this way is not about doom, it's about saving money since times are tough and storing up materials in case things get worse. It's a long term investment of time, talent, and treasure to make my life more rich and full. It's about getting closer to God (the Source) and Nature and trying to get back to living in the Garden of Eden. It's mainly about building community in order to be balanced and live within a better kind of civilization.

Preppers who fit into this ethos also prepare by having offensive/defensive weapons. It's not all benign and Kum Ba Ya. It a reasonable approach to living life to the fullest but protecting your family pragmatically long term.

If all you think you need is to bugout, then make an alcohol stove (for which you probably can't synthesize the fuel), but then don't come and try to live in my neighborhood and forage on my land.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 12:26 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Essential equipment: Fresnel Lens

Since there's apparent interest in SHTF Cooking and people want to minimize learning the most basic skill of firemaking, here's an essential piece of equipment that is vastly superior to a magnifying lens: a fresnel lens.

This form of lens creates a very intensively hot focal point when the sun's rays are hitting the top of the lens.


They can be purchased as cheaply as $2 US and have their place in sunny climates and take up no room whatsoever but can get scratched or scored.

If placed in a frame, and one has basic carpentry skills, then a long term cooking device can be made which generates considerable heat.




However you can merely cook with it:
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 12:31 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Harvesting a large fresnel lens from a rear projection junk tv

Well, there's been a collapse, and there's no electricty. What can you harvest from junk in order to get a large fresnel lens? A rear projection TV.






GLP