PAGAN CHRISTIANS WHO TEACH FALSEHOOD OF THE LAW,FAITH AND WORKS

I'm sorry but which point am I missing?

There is absolutely no way any of us can get into a position where God 'owes' us a debt of any kind. We are so far short of his requirements that grace is the ONLY way we can enter into his presence.

A person who is not responsive to God and who rejects the sacrifice of his son is spiritually dead, yes. This is because Jesus is the only way to spiritual life.

I can't see how these statements contradict anything I have said...

Hommage to Ishtar? The majority of organized christianity does and God despises it

He would have us feed those that practise and not have us kill them.

What you refer to by killing is the result of men being led by men and not the Father.

I was just trying to establish a basis for conversation. Thanks for replying.

Now on to the scripture that seems to be giving some people heartburn: 'Faith without works is dead.'

A faith that is not expressed in some way ('works') is a faith that is unresponsive to God, that is, "dead".

Would you not agree?

My friend I have attended no seminary or school of religious teaching. The truths I speak of are self evident in the Word of God and revealed by the Holy Spirit upon meditation on the Word and Prayerful communication with the Father.

The Bible is the story of Jesus. It is the story of how we came to be here, why we are in the position we are and what we can do to regain fellowship with the Father. For a time, the Law was the only was to gain good standing with the Father. Now however, Jesus has fulfilled the law and achieved with his perfect sacrifice what the blood of goats and lambs could not. He has made a one-time payment for the sins of all humanity because his Blood is worthy. To suggest otherwise is to spit in his face and mock his sacrifice as unworthy in the sight of the Lord.

If you reject the sacrifice of Jesus as unworthy, he will reject you as unworthy. He only asks that we recognise and accept who he is and the importance of what he has done. That is enough to regain righteousness and be able to stand in the presence of God Almighty

Those who follow Christ are taught to correct their brothers with gentleness and love. To kill those who reject Jesus makes us no better than those we are killing. A christian does not have justification in taking the life of another who rejects Jesus because they KNOW that by doing so, they condemn that person to Hell by their own actions. This is completely unjustifiable.

Ah no worries, I completely agree :)

Faith without works is dead, but it is not by works that we are justified and made right in the eyes of the Lord. The works are a result of our faith which comes as a result of knowing the Lord Jesus Christ.

The discussion then moves onto what constitutes a work of faith. I believe this can be as simple as choosing to love someone who has offended you. Because by doing so, we express a fruit of the Spirit which is love. Following the commandments of the Lord are a work of faith but before they are possible, we must come to know and love the Lord Jesus. Without faith in him, our works are dead as they are undertaken with a spirit of self-servitude. They are done primarily to provide ourselves with some benefit and any benefit to others is a welcome consolation.

These messages are a 'work' that is a result of my faith in Jesus Christ. Were I not to love him and his sacrifice, I would not love others enough to care where they spend eternity.

Just the opposite - Pagan Rome forced the Christians to adopt the pagan practices. Pagan Rome then murdered many Christians, Jews and others.

Rome is not Christian.

^^THIS^^

Im not going to document this or argue.

Christ blood replaced the blood ordinences and brought the promise of salvation to all that would believe Him.

We can have all faith and belief in Christ today, but if we fall for the fake Christ then what is the state of our faith or belief? Without work who will know the True from the fake?

Works start at home getting to know Christ through His Word. Once moved with His truth we are instructed to feed the poor in spirit, widows, and orphans which not only strengthens those who may not know Christ, but the teacher as well.

Works follow us in flesh and also in spirit, they certainly do.

The whole of christianity is pagan, including Jesus, it/they are Constantinian fabrications.

Yehushua was Torah made flesh and dwelling amongst us, hence Matt 5 v 17 & 18.

Even YHWH Himself cannot change Torah (yet), when he does, that is when all is fulfilled, a "new Heaven" and a "new Earth" will be necessary as Torah is the design document of this current creation. The 5 books of the Torah are those parts that relate to Mankind. The full Torah; when written upon our hearts, reveals much more to us (for now we see as through a glass darkly ....)

as in the scriptures above both Yehushua and Paul preach obedience to the Torah, it is only constantine who tells you that you don't need to (and he was a mithra worshipper!)

Keeping the Pharisaical tradition is very onerous, but keeping Torah is easy, and the burden is light.

No way mate, christianity is not pagan at all and Jesus certainly wasn't either. Jesus is the Word made flesh and come to dwell among us in order to offer himself as the perfect sacrifice in payment of the penalty for our sins.

The Torah is not the design document of Heaven and Earth, it is Act 1 in the story of Jesus. It sets the stage for the future prophets and eventually the arrival of Jesus and his sacrifice.

Paul taught that the Law as written by Moses was fulfilled completely with the death of Jesus and that God's laws are now written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit. We are no longer bound to any set of written commandments. We are to obey Christ and the internal promptings of the Holy Spirit. By this I do not mean 'listen to the voices in your head' because many have been lead astray in this way. We are to meditate on the Word of the Lord and learn the character of God. We are to emulate the life of Jesus and strive in all things to relate to one another with kindness, gentleness and love.

Pagan religions such as Wicca, Neo-Druidism, and the european polytheistic pagans etc. all reject Christ as God's son and saviour of mankind. Jesus himself knew of the pagan religions of his day and rebuked each one for the falsehood they are.

Even the ten commandments are an onerous burden to heavy to bear when you attempt to comply with the requirements.

This is why Grace is the only way.

CHRISTIANITY IS PAGAN TO THE CORE

christmas easter, no laws, halloween, Jesus is the almighty God, sun worship day,pauline doctrines that override messiah teachings,all saints day, ash wednesday, women pastors on the altar.. The list goes on and on



24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26
Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Haggai 2:6 Exod 19:18

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Haggai 2:6

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/09/2012 01:10 PM

Ephesians2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Ephesians 2:8-9

If you look at it that way, the commands spoken of by Messiah were far more difficult than the "10 commandments." It is much more difficult to not harbor anger in your heart against your neighbor, than to not "kill him."

that is the very same message grace has allowed you to be able to falter and repent of your sin.This the grace of God..What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law..By doing the will and the laws of the father you perform the worrks acceptable and th belief in messiah and the promised kingdom to come is the prize you run for or work for as paul said you should.

So work without faith and vice versa is dead..Grace was given to mankind so we have the time through a true believer's life time to become more like God daily persuing this goal

The believer part in the this is the execution of his or her grace which is


28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/09/2012 01:25 PM

Christmas, Easter and Hallow'een are all pagan festivals with 'christian' meaning attached by the catholic church. They are not taught in the bible and are not christian in any way. Christmas and Easter do not correspond with the dates of Jesus' birth and death either. I repeat, these festivals are Not christian, they are corrupt. Having said this, Christmas and Easter are convenient times to remember Jesus and what he did for us and can be used to educate our children as to the true meaning of his sacrifice (all paganism aside).

Sun worship is pure idolatry and has no place in the life of a christian.

All Saints Day is another adaptaion of a pagan festival which was established by the Catholic Church. It has no christian meaning other than the remembrance of those who have died in the name of the Lord if we choose to use it in that manner. I have never observed it personally.

I have never had anything to do with Ash Wednesday and do not know if it is pagan or not. It has never entered into my belief system of salvation through grace.

As for Jesus being almighty God, well he is. He is the Word made flesh and come do dwell among us in order to die in our place in fulfillment of the law. The fact that he was God and man is what made it possible for him to live a sinless life and therefore be deemed worthy to die in our place.

Pauline teachings differ from those of Jesus because the target audience is different. Jesus spoke to Jews about Jewish law. He showed them what the law really meant and how he was a fulfillment of the prophecies. It was only on his death that the law was fulfilled, thus the age of grace begins and the Pauline teachings explain this concept in fine detail. Since Jesus was the fulfillment of prophecy and the law, we are now under grace. Jesus and Paul could not teach the same doctrine because it was not until Jesus died that the game changed. Paul simply shared with us the rules of the new game. The rules are much simpler but come with greater responsibility.



Indeed, Jesus expanded the Law so that the Jews would understand its full intention. That being that the law is not able to be kept by us. Jesus however did keep the law to its fullest extent and dies on our behalf so that we do not need to keep the law. He took our sin and gave us his righteousness and that is completely lawful in the eyes of God. He redeemed us from the curse of sin by way of payment in Blood.

The law of Moses is not just difficult, it is impossible. Only God can keep it so he came down and did just that. He did this because he loves us. He loves us so much he sent his Son to die for us.

I tell you what, I would find it nigh on impossible to send my only son to die in the place of a person who had offended me in every way imaginable but this is exactly what God did.

While you are positioning yourselves for your place in Heaven.....be reminded that we are all sinners and not one of us is worthy to enter His presence, no not one!

I find it greatly amusing to read all your posts that allow "you" to enter but the rest of us do not fulfil your requirements!


Thank The Father for His unspeakable gift of eternal Grace through His Son Jesus Christ the Messiah!

You must understand though that it is not our works that save us for they cannot. Our works can only come as a result of a firm belief in the redeeming power of the Blood of Jesus Christ. Any works that do not have this basis in fact are truly dead and mean nothing.

It is ONLY through grace that we are saved. Once we are saved and have faith in Jesus Christ, we are free to perform his works through the Spirit. We cannot ever say that our works have given us enough credit with God to earn a place by his side. Does this make sense?

THose laws were never moses law those were laws given to moses by the father.There was fault iwth it where by man had to obey all to be accepted if not he will die if he faltered at one.

The promise of messiah took away the curse of the law of death. messiah became that curse on the cross..The books said it cursed is eeveryman that hangeth from a tree.

The law is not a curse or to be abhorred but it is good and wonderful. the holy spirit is only given to those who obey the laws and commands of gOD ..THIS IS WRITTEN.

These are called the saints of the most high

if you read you will see it is not me who needs this understanding but you.For what I have written is what the word says and what it means.I am not giving it a christian twist...

Exactly... To each man who accepts the sacrifice of Jesus, is given the right to call himself a child of God. Jesus is the only way to the Father.

Happy Last Great day!

YHVH law is worthless and for his followers and creation. Materialism is a false construct created by the evil one(YHVH) He and his rule by fear are obsolete.

No man comes to the father exceept through me!

What does that mean? do you think it means just by saying i love Jesus and I am a christian you are in the presence of the father?

So wrong! He is the WORD of the father and the son of the father..

If you dont listen to the WORDS he commanded which are his fathers words then you are toast and an enemy.You have to embtrace the word and live it not fight it and give it a new religious new age meaning.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 10/09/2012 01:42 PM

Yes we all know Yehshah is the way the truth and the light-The word AND THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER

So why you people oppose the word that is spoken when it is him? That is the question

It is called Mosaic law because the law was given to Moses. The law was indeed a curse to men because once it was known it had to be followed lest a man suffer the consequence of breaking the law. The law of God was a response to the pride of the Israelites when they declared before God that anything he required of them, they could do. Therefore God gave them an UNKEEPABLE law to shame them in their pride. In God's eyes the law is good and holy but it became a curse to the man who tried to keep it and failed. Only God can keep his own laws.

Prior to Christ, the Holy Spirit was given to those who God chose to gift it to. Generally these people were prophets acting on God's orders. After Christ, the Holy Spirit was bestowed upon each and every person who believed in the Blood of Jesus Christ as payment for their sin. There is no other requirement and the Holy Spirit cannot be bought or earned. This was the error of Simon the Magician who attempted to purchase the power of the Holy Spirit to use as a parlour trick in order to get rich. Each and every person who accepts Christ as their saviour becomes a saint of the Most High. We become priests in his name.



My friend, there is no twist required. Upon the death of Jesus Christ, we entered into a new covenant with God. This new covenant requires only that we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. It is that simple.

Well, I don't look at it that Jesus *expanded* the law, but rather that He simplified it. Kinda like the old adage " is the glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty?" It all depends on where it was when it started before it came to the 1/2 way point, you know?

Regarding the "law of Moses"...... what people have been taught about the 613, and that God gave those commands to Moses to give to the Israelites, well, He never did. The law He gave to Moses was far, FAR simpler. The rest of it is levitical sand that must be sorted through.

No wonder Messiah was so frustrated with the teachings of the scribes and pharisees!! They had all but obliterated the truth, and in fact, in His own words -- they had taken away the secret of the key of knowledge.

Jesus did not come to die so that we wouldn't have to learn His Father's instructions... He didn't love us so deeply that He died in our place so that we are free to do was WE will.......