Jesus lied - period.

No, Jesus didn't lie. The gospels were written anonymously. No one knows who wrote them. They were given the names "Matthew, Mark, Luke and John" by a Catholic bishop. They could have been written by Harold the goat farmer for all we know. They were given those names bacause the Catholic Church wanted them to have legitimacy. They DON'T. They are made up stories.

and since they are the ONLY sources for info about Jesus...then there's a good chance that the person of Jesus was fiction as well...or based on an Essene holy man of that time period named Joshua who WAS crucified by the Romans.

This is all historical FACT. Just do some research. I did. I used to be a Southern Baptist minister, went to seminary and also believed in the infallibility of the bible.

but I went down the rabbit hole and REALLY researched the history of the bible and early CHristianity....veered from the information that I was spoon fed by the seminaries and actually looked at and read other sources of truth besides those texts I was TOLD to read...

I studies and researched my was right out of a religion.

I still believe in God, but not the "god" of the bible and there's a big question mark as far as an actual historical Jesus.

and BTW....all the earlist Christians were preterists. They ALL believed that Jesus was coming back SOON...like within a few years.

Since he didn't and they all died waiting, the Catholic Church had to do some quick editing of scripture and come up with another doctrine to cover....hence what we have today.

and if you think for a minute me coming to these conclusions was easy. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I gave up a way of life, a ministry, a faith, a church and a paycheck. I've been called heretic, going to hell, evil, deluded etc etc.

But above all else, I am loyal to TRUTH. Once I found out the truth....I couldn't UNKNOW it. Sometimes I wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then. Ignorance can be bliss.

Alas.

John saw it, in a vision, which is what we call the book of Revelation. He saw it before he died.

Jesus didn't lie, just man didn't understand what He said. Most men still don't get it.

I'm just going to add this one point ... the very fact that answers go around and around should show that christians MUST see this as real, despite the existence of data that shows it's wrong. "... we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord" means exactly what it says, and was said by the person who started this belief-circus. It never happened, later writings avoided the fact it never happened, and THAT is typical of how people think.

I'm just going to add this one point ... the very fact that answers go around and around should show that christians MUST see this as real, despite the existence of data that shows it's wrong. "... we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord" means exactly what it says, and was said by the person who started this belief-circus. It never happened, later writings avoided the fact it never happened, and THAT is typical of how people think.

The existence of data? Where in your little brain did you find this "data?" You are very confused. Or just enjoy arguing without facts to stir up trouble.

The existence of data? Where in your little brain did you find this "data?" You are very confused. Or just enjoy arguing without facts to stir up trouble.

There is no sense in even trying to deal with these people. They have made their decision based on the cold hard 'facts' of wildly varying opinion and learned material from the far flung corners of the internet.

These are the Google-tards that our world has produced. Young, mouthy pricks who feel they deserve a politically correct, moral high-ground for using big words; and then calling 'Ad Hominem!' without even the slightest idea of it's true meaning.

Stupid as a bricks, and just as dense.

Yes, it's sad to see people like OP. Google-tards! Love it. Yup, I remember my thesis days having to do so without the internet and on a typewriter. Young whipper snappers don't know how easy they have it. But then, they are believing the internet, like you say, which they believe to be pure truth.

OP, I pray you learn the real truth. God told us he is the truth and the way. Lux et Veritas.

You can't get around it:

John believes “the time is at hand,” and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will “shortly come to pass.” Revelations 1:1-3

Then in Hebrews:

... but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son ...

Jesus would come “in a little while, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37

In 1 Thessalonians 4 Paul stated: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air ...

I got news for you. I'm over 50. I didn't google ANYTHING. I researched and did it the old fashioned way. I've got a "religious" library that would make most seminaries jealous. I learned Greek and Hebrew.

Don't come at me with this drivel. Coming to the realization that Christianity was a fraud was the most depressing, soul shattering experience I've had in my life.

I wish it wasn't so. I wish Chrisitanity was true. I was raised to believe. I taught, breathed and lived it for almost 35 years. It was my LIFE. Do you understand that?

You and your ilk have no CLUE what it means to come to a crisis of conscience. Where you have to decide it you are going to continue teaching and preaching information that you know is not true and walk away from your LIFE or just pretend that you don't know anything and go on as before....and NO ONE would know the difference.

That friend, is a HARD decision. One I hope you never have to make.

You can't get around it:

John believes “the time is at hand,” and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will “shortly come to pass.” Revelations 1:1-3

Then in Hebrews:

... but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son ...

Jesus would come “in a little while, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37

In 1 Thessalonians 4 Paul stated: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air ...

No matter how you look at it, how you stumble around desperately trying to figure a way to get around it, the "end" was supposed to have come 2000 years ago. Simply put, it never happened. Paul was wrong, and every attempt to straighten this mess out - failed. Modern, unbiased, biblical scholars know this, but the people refuse to see it.

“For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

The existence of data? Where in your little brain did you find this "data?" You are very confused. Or just enjoy arguing without facts to stir up trouble.

Yes - but when we don't throw the context away - we know that "day" was expected 2000 years ago.