For God to condemn you just to die for you is ridiculous and immoral.

You are speaking from a place of not understanding

God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

You will get there...to the understanding
but today is not that day

The creature does not tell the Creator what is ridiculous or immoral.

Gods and religious text are made by men trying to put meaning to their existence by observing their world and making assumptions of things they don't really understand. The people back in history didn't have the knowledge and understanding of the world that we do today.

Not only that, religion gives power over people. Men place themselves in positions of religious authority to command others since "God(s) speak to them" or "It is God's will". Millions have died and suffered in the name of some God.


I am not saying that all followers of a particular religion are evil people. Nor do I not disbelieve the possibility of some Creator(s).

Nah eh if someone figures something out like clean water it will be told where they don't have that ?

what if god HAD to condemn you because of his justice but decided to save you instead?

yeah, I guess that would explain it.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Seems your reading and comprehension is what is lacking understanding. I said nothing of the son condemning anything.

If I am foolish, are you saying that it is wise to embrace human sacrifice and the notion that it is good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL

I am not telling God anything.

I am asking you if you believe in human sacrifice and punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL

I agree with your view of religions.

Does your idea of a creator include it being ok if it is absentee and is fair in sending you to hell for nonbelief?

If he were real and as you imagine that is.

Regards
DL

It would but who would be forcing God to have to do anything? Satan perhaps?

And even if he was forced, he was not forced to accept a human sacrifice. He could have slid us all into heaven with that quote in the O P.

Regards
DL

Why does God hate the pot that he formed with a hole in it?

Does clay think? No. Perhaps that is why it does not ask.

Can you think?
Or just thump stupidly?

Regards
DL

Are you intentionally missing the point?


If there is a God. And he created he you.
So that you even has the capacity to discern things.

How can you discern against him?

He would simply not have created you.

How can God create something more moral than himself?

Christianity has the strangest and completely impossible beliefs. God condemns no one, people condemn themselves.

Look at all the religious around you. Cant you see the truth?

Pray for wisdom and understanding.

Most people on the face of the planet have always been on darkness.

and you are full of false "beliefs". God has jillions of sons. ONE of them came here to TEACH. You are saved by your own power of the Father Within YOU and that is how its has always been since the beginning of the creation and on 5.6 trillion worlds with intelligent life on them.

This is a particularly dead beat planet for many reasons, and extra sons of God have been sent to teach, and handle all sorts of stuff. Buddha and all the rest were Sons of God and there are many many of us on the planet now and in the past 2000 years trying to lift up this dark world. And we go unappreciated for it, it is so dark here.

Last Edited by God Loves ALL on 11/04/2012 09:17 PM

Because he is manmade and the ancients were not moral.

You are judging God yourself and yet do not seem to like my judging him.

Why do you hold that double standard?


I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. They show who put what in Jesus' mouth and how Christianity has been manipulated. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

[link to blog.ted.com]

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavians and later through Constantine.

[link to www.simchajtv.com]

Regards
DL

If we condemn ourselves then we can also forgive ourselves. Right?

All we need do is recognize that we cannot help but do evil and that that is the way God planned it.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

Regards
DL
------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

----------------------------

Theistic evolution.
[link to www.youtube.com]

What truth is that?

You have given absolutely nothing to look at.

Regards
DL

God has many shortcomings including being an egomaniac

look at it this way,if i give you a gift and you destroy it,do you deserve that gift,and who is to blame for its destruction?

i think we are to carefully examine this gift

wow you sir have won the most meekness award...

claiming to understand the creator of your being is not humble at all

OP is so confused on the truth of the bible I don't even care to shed light on all his points.

Enjoy everything that's coming to you.

I think GOD has another plan that you people just don't see!
GOD is'nt going to judge you,you will judge yourself,if you find yourself in a pit of fire it will be on you,no one else,YOU and only you can deniegh youself,you have no power to deniegh anyone but yourself. I have posted this because I can not deniegh you anything,because to do so would to deniegh myself.

You have a very good point. That is because the god you described is created by mankind to control others. That god is petty, mean, judgemental, and cruel...just like many in power today.

The god that I love is found in nature, not a church. That god always loves and never condems. That god laughs at the bible.

If you give me a gift that you know I will destroy, and if that gift is a human life like Jesus was, then you are guilty of murder.

Right?

Regards
DL

Yet you claim to understand the creator as being good and just do not like your opinion questioned.

Kettle and pot.

Regards
DL

Did Jesus not say to minister to the sick and not those who are well?

You have no argument against and that is why you just throw a stone and run away.

I do not mind. You help me make my point to lurkers.

Regards
DL

If we judge and condenm ourselves then we can also forgive ourselves. Therefore the Universalists are right and there is no hell.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

----------------------------

Theistic evolution.
[link to www.youtube.com]

amen to that