For God to condemn you just to die for you is ridiculous and immoral.

Thank you.

I too looked to nature to find God and did as well.

Lend me your ear, eh, eyes, for a moment.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Please tell me of your finding God so that I can compare.

Regards
DL

wow that sounds about right for us humans,but God,God has higher plans obviously...

and only incredible love can manifest what you pointed out,
yes thats right,there needs to be immense amount of love to show such hope and love...

do you know how i understand God's goodness?

i am healthy and i exist,that shows so much goodness and mercy we can only begin to contemplate

If you are still seeking God as you indicate, how can you know what you say you know of one that you have yet to know?

Regards
DL

i am pretty sure we will be judged,ask a person being raped from childhood,ask them how they feel...

we have done damage and we will need to compensate for

Yes and you do not care how many innocent men have to die as long as you think God is being good to you.

Nice morals that. Not.

Those morals have damned your soul to hell.
Satan is being good to your body so that he can demand and get payment from God who will condemn you.

Regards
DL

So because you are pretty sure, and fear death, you will embrace human sacrifice and the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is a good form of justice.

You had better hope that there is no judgement because any good God will send you to hell for trying to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

Regards
DL

what?

hmmm,does it say,eye for an eye?

God is just,and He calls all to repentance,it is our fault if we fail to accept it

ok,give me a reason why YOUR god makes people suffer and die.

and dont tell me the God from old testament is not the God of Jesus....

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
john4:22

Jesus talking about sin:

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
john8:24

Adam condemned the human race by leaving God. God did not leave Adam. So when you pull away from your life force you end up dying. All God did was warn what would happen if humans decided they don't want God's help. It is not God's fault that our first parents were stupid and selfish.

Yes, but maybe it is YOU that isn't quite understanding. You should know, by now, that blood sacrifice is a part of most every pagan religion. Christianity is a pagan religion. Pagan religions offered up their own children as a sacrifice to the gods. The bible god offered up his own son to appease his anger at his own mistake for making sinful people. This makes no sense, except for Christians who have been brainwashed to believe this story since infancy.

If you can't use your own brain to think, that is pretty pitiful. You endlessly quote bible verses and you think this makes sense to people who don't actually believe in talking donkeys, talking snakes and people who live inside the belly of a big fish. We WISH you would grow out of your need for children's fairy tales but that can't happen until you learn to do one simple thing. The thing you need to do is THINK. Use your brain before you lose it, if you haven't lost it already.

Jesus died for us WILLINGLY. No more sacrifices will ever be needed.

And first century Christianity was not pagan. It warned against people who would come in and pollute it. Constantine ended up polluting Christianity and many so called sects have followed after it.

Jesus said about every one, "Ye are as gods..."

Ultimately the question is: Will you give control of your consciousness/being to Him or will you keep it to yourself, wanting your own control and wanting independence from God altogether?

When you keep your own control, you will actually lose it! It will degrade to evil by spiraling out of control. (chaos theory)

When you give your life to God, you will gain the proper self-control and not want to do evil.

So God is giving you a choice: Be your own god and suffer the consequences, or allow Him to rule your life and live in peace and harmony. The choice is yours.

True

Eye for an eye. You joke right?

Let's see how that works.

I screw you for 120 years and have to go to purposeless torture in hell for 12000000000000000000000000000000 years.

Yep. That is an eye for an eye all right.
To a fool.

Regards
DL

The Godhead I know does not. Look around. Do you see more people suffering or more people prospering?

You likely see more suffering. Here is something to open your eyes to reality.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Regards
DL

Can you help but do evil and sin? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

These links speak to theistic evolution.

[link to www.americamagazine.org]

[link to www.youtube.com]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

God murdered Adam and Eve through neglect.

We jail J Ws today if they let their child die through the neglect of not giving them what will keep them alive. Like a blood transfusion.

Yet you praise a God who murdered his children by not giving them what would keep them alive. The tree of life.

You go ahead and adore that prick. I will never do so. I have morals.

Regards
DL

Quite a distortion of Jesus' message.

You quote ye are Gods then say we should set it aside.
How utterly foolish.

You fear being in control of yourself like some child who does not want to grow up.

Only I can judge God. I is you if you choose to be.

Using the term --- I am here means you. This applies to all of us. You are ( I ) to you as I am I to me. Only you then can judge the God construct that you see as you evaluate what you know of God.

Jesus said that at the end of days he would return. He meant in spirit only. Not a physical manifestation. He also said that the time of the end was at hand and that the temple of God was within each of us. The tern spirit represents, the spirit of the law, what is written in the hearts, ---- God in other words, ---- is defined as laws and rules and such as they are the only thing you can follow at all times, ---- and these are set by you and you are in effect ruling yourself in terms of following the God construct you have developed.

Jesus is telling you that you and your heart are the only things of importance in terms of leadership as it is the rules you have accepted as worthy of following. Jesus warned that at end times there would be a number of Jesus’ to choose from and morality is what you will have to choose from.

That is why I think it important to evaluate what Jesus said and determine if it is worthy and moral or not.

Jesus Christ. Madman or something worse.
[link to www.youtube.com]

Below, Bishop Spong speaks of basically redefining Christianity. Going from a church or religious thinking, to a more spiritual or heart felt thinking. I also urge Christianity to change because it is now too immoral to ignore with today’s mentality. It’s overall policies are immoral in my view. The God of war must die and Jesus declared the full and only God that is required and that the noble lie of politics should be revoked to let all know that the God you likely know was always a myth. This may be a good time for you to contemplate such a move as many Christians haves rejected the O.T. God and only focus on Jesus and loving policies.

Bishop Spong speaks well to this issue.
[link to www.youtube.com]

Apotheosis means just recognizing that you are on a journey of being your own God. Some few will have help from God on this through a real apotheosis but only the very few it seems. You cannot get away from that fact so you may as well forget about fantasy, miracles and magic. They were never real and you are the strongest force you will ever know. After all, who but you can make you want to do anything voluntarily? There is no other force that can do this and therefore you are God in the real sense of being master of yourself. If that does not compute with you then remember that A & E became as Gods, God’s own words, and yours is the same birth rite. Throw it away if you wish. You cannot reject the knowledge of good and evil so I cannot fathom why you would throw away the fact that you as well can become as Gods.

The moral of Jesus and his sacrifice is that we should accept being God, and ruling ourselves even against a government if needs be. Become archetypal Moses and face government and declare that it faces one as great as itself. That is what being a free man is all about.

The time of the end is when Jesus becomes your God on earth, ---- again this is you, --- who takes the place of the mythical heavenly God of war. Jesus/you, as the way, the man’s way of judging first, not some absentee God’s unknown standard. Your covenant with yourself is to be the new covenant. Man answering to man and himself. Not to some unknown God.

This clip from J. Haidt shows that we instinctively share God’s morals. In this we are truly Gods and children of God.

[link to blog.ted.com]

I am God because I am the only one who is capable of judging the God I know.
You are a God in your own rite as you are the only one who is capable of judging the God you know.

The Noble Lie is firmly in place and manipulating your thinking. Discard it. In this day and age we do not need it the way we may have in the past.

The Noble Lie.
In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite to maintain social harmony or to advance an agenda.

As a Gnostic Christian, this theology/philosophy is quite natural to me and can be for all people.

Try thinking as the God that you are. Stop being a sheep and rise to your true inheritance as a shepherd. That is the message Jesus wants you to recognize.

Regards
DL

P.S.
Listen to Jesus and hear for the first time in your life.
Ps 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Hosea 1:10 Ye are the sons of the living God.
Do you think that sons of God are destined to be sheep or shepherds?
Jesus was written to empower us. Not enslave us. Do not waste what he gave.