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Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds

 
Anonymous Coward
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Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
By Guy Adams
Published: 20 September 2006

Don't tell the locals, but the hordes of British holidaymakers who visited Spain this summer were, in fact, returning to their ancestral home.

A team from Oxford University has discovered that the Celts, Britain's indigenous people, are descended from a tribe of Iberian fishermen who crossed the Bay of Biscay 6,000 years ago. DNA analysis reveals they have an almost identical genetic "fingerprint" to the inhabitants of coastal regions of Spain, whose own ancestors migrated north between 4,000 and 5,000BC.

The discovery, by Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University, will herald a change in scientific understanding of Britishness.

People of Celtic ancestry were thought to have descended from tribes of central Europe. Professor Sykes, who is soon to publish the first DNA map of the British Isles, said: "About 6,000 years ago Iberians developed ocean-going boats that enabled them to push up the Channel. Before they arrived, there were some human inhabitants of Britain but only a few thousand in number. These people were later subsumed into a larger Celtic tribe... The majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."

Professor Sykes spent five years taking DNA samples from 10,000 volunteers in Britain and Ireland, in an effort to produce a map of our genetic roots.

Research on their "Y" chromosome, which subjects inherit from their fathers, revealed that all but a tiny percentage of the volunteers were originally descended from one of six clans who arrived in the UK in several waves of immigration prior to the Norman conquest.

The most common genetic fingerprint belongs to the Celtic clan, which Professor Sykes has called "Oisin". After that, the next most widespread originally belonged to tribes of Danish and Norse Vikings. Small numbers of today's Britons are also descended from north African, Middle Eastern and Roman clans.

These DNA "fingerprints" have enabled Professor Sykes to create the first genetic maps of the British Isles, which are analysed in Blood of the Isles, a book published this week. The maps show that Celts are most dominant in areas of Ireland, Scotland and Wales. But, contrary to popular myth, the Celtic clan is also strongly represented elsewhere in the British Isles.

"Although Celtic countries have previously thought of themselves as being genetically different from the English, this is emphatically not the case," Professor Sykes said.

"This is significant, because the idea of a separate Celtic race is deeply ingrained in our political structure, and has historically been very divisive. Culturally, the view of a separate race holds water. But from a genetic point of view, Britain is emphatically not a divided nation."

Origins of Britons

Oisin

Descended from Iberian fishermen who migrated to Britain between 4,000 and 5,000BC and now considered the UK's indigenous inhabitants.

Wodan

Second most common clan arrived from Denmark during Viking invasions in the 9th century.

Sigurd

Descended from Viking invaders who settled in the British Isles from AD 793. One of the most common clans in the Shetland Isles, and areas of north and west Scotland.

Eshu

The wave of Oisin immigration was joined by the Eshu clan, which has roots in Africa. Eshu descendants are primarily found in coastal areas.

Re

A second wave of arrivals which came from the Middle East. The Re were farmers who spread westwards across Europe.

Roman

Although the Romans ruled from AD 43 until 410, they left a tiny genetic footprint. For the first 200 years occupying forces were forbidden from marrying locally.

Don't tell the locals, but the hordes of British holidaymakers who visited Spain this summer were, in fact, returning to their ancestral home.

A team from Oxford University has discovered that the Celts, Britain's indigenous people, are descended from a tribe of Iberian fishermen who crossed the Bay of Biscay 6,000 years ago. DNA analysis reveals they have an almost identical genetic "fingerprint" to the inhabitants of coastal regions of Spain, whose own ancestors migrated north between 4,000 and 5,000BC.

The discovery, by Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University, will herald a change in scientific understanding of Britishness.

People of Celtic ancestry were thought to have descended from tribes of central Europe. Professor Sykes, who is soon to publish the first DNA map of the British Isles, said: "About 6,000 years ago Iberians developed ocean-going boats that enabled them to push up the Channel. Before they arrived, there were some human inhabitants of Britain but only a few thousand in number. These people were later subsumed into a larger Celtic tribe... The majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."

Professor Sykes spent five years taking DNA samples from 10,000 volunteers in Britain and Ireland, in an effort to produce a map of our genetic roots.

Research on their "Y" chromosome, which subjects inherit from their fathers, revealed that all but a tiny percentage of the volunteers were originally descended from one of six clans who arrived in the UK in several waves of immigration prior to the Norman conquest.

The most common genetic fingerprint belongs to the Celtic clan, which Professor Sykes has called "Oisin". After that, the next most widespread originally belonged to tribes of Danish and Norse Vikings. Small numbers of today's Britons are also descended from north African, Middle Eastern and Roman clans.

These DNA "fingerprints" have enabled Professor Sykes to create the first genetic maps of the British Isles, which are analysed in Blood of the Isles, a book published this week. The maps show that Celts are most dominant in areas of Ireland, Scotland and Wales. But, contrary to popular myth, the Celtic clan is also strongly represented elsewhere in the British Isles.
"Although Celtic countries have previously thought of themselves as being genetically different from the English, this is emphatically not the case," Professor Sykes said.

"This is significant, because the idea of a separate Celtic race is deeply ingrained in our political structure, and has historically been very divisive. Culturally, the view of a separate race holds water. But from a genetic point of view, Britain is emphatically not a divided nation."

Origins of Britons

Oisin

Descended from Iberian fishermen who migrated to Britain between 4,000 and 5,000BC and now considered the UK's indigenous inhabitants.

Wodan

Second most common clan arrived from Denmark during Viking invasions in the 9th century.

Sigurd

Descended from Viking invaders who settled in the British Isles from AD 793. One of the most common clans in the Shetland Isles, and areas of north and west Scotland.

Eshu

The wave of Oisin immigration was joined by the Eshu clan, which has roots in Africa. Eshu descendants are primarily found in coastal areas.

Re

A second wave of arrivals which came from the Middle East. The Re were farmers who spread westwards across Europe.

Roman

Although the Romans ruled from AD 43 until 410, they left a tiny genetic footprint. For the first 200 years occupying forces were forbidden from marrying locally.
[link to news.independent.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 11:43 AM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Revise the article replacing "Spanish" witha a more appropriate, illustrative title.

Spanish gives the impression of dark straight hair and pale skin.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 11:44 AM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Its true.

I am a decendant of them.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 11:45 AM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Dispense with the Eshu clan lie. No one migrated out of Africa. All migrations (of original men) were inbound.
mercury2

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09/20/2006 12:14 PM

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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
I thought the seagoing peoples in that time period were called Phoenicians.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 12:43 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Whatever. Why does any of this matter?

We are where we are. Why aren't people's souls important? It's only where you can be labeled from that matters.
Common Sense
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09/20/2006 12:46 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Traditionally I thought the Celts migrated from the Middle East or Asia Minor to Europe,also with evidence of Celtic colonisation spreading eastwards.Tombs have been discovered in China,with blondhaired mummies and Celtic clothing.Some of these Celts held positions of authority in China.Most of them migrated westward towards France,Spain,Ireland and Great Britain.So what's the big deal with Spanish fishermen?
GREY LENSMAN
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09/20/2006 12:58 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
COMMON SENSE, LOOK AT YOUR TIMELINES. THE TOCHATIANS CLEARLY ARE THESE EARLY CELTS FROM THE BRITISH ISLE.

SINCE THIS FORUM STARTED I HAVE MAINTAINED THE PROTOCELTIC ROOTS OF BRITONS AND THAT THE SAXON / CELTIC DIVIDE IS FALSE.

ESHU. OF COURSE, THE ARLY EROPEAN SEA KINGS, MIGRATED AS FAR AS AUSTRALI AND NEW ZEALAND. THEY EMPLOYED AFRICANS AS SAILORS, THESE BECAME PHONEACIANS AND THEN CARTHAGINAINS. SO THIS CLAN IS TOTALLY EXPECTED BY ME.

WILL NEED TO GET THE BOOK.

GL
Dallas
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09/20/2006 01:17 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Propaganda. File that one under the same British studies that "proved" short people are dumb and men are smarter than women. Still waiting on the study that "proves" English Males are superior to all other living species on the planet.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 01:33 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Propaganda. File that one under the same British studies that "proved" short people are dumb and men are smarter than women. Still waiting on the study that "proves" English Males are superior to all other living species on the planet.
 Quoting: Dallas 92632


lol

Well, clearly being a tall man means your more intelligent. They just need to prove that white people in particular ones from England are more intelligent.
Common Sense
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09/20/2006 01:59 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
COMMON SENSE, LOOK AT YOUR TIMELINES. THE TOCHATIANS CLEARLY ARE THESE EARLY CELTS FROM THE BRITISH ISLE.

SINCE THIS FORUM STARTED I HAVE MAINTAINED THE PROTOCELTIC ROOTS OF BRITONS AND THAT THE SAXON / CELTIC DIVIDE IS FALSE.

ESHU. OF COURSE, THE ARLY EROPEAN SEA KINGS, MIGRATED AS FAR AS AUSTRALI AND NEW ZEALAND. THEY EMPLOYED AFRICANS AS SAILORS, THESE BECAME PHONEACIANS AND THEN CARTHAGINAINS. SO THIS CLAN IS TOTALLY EXPECTED BY ME.

WILL NEED TO GET THE BOOK.

GL
 Quoting: GREY LENSMAN 144519

What book would that be and where to get hold of it?
Manticore

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09/20/2006 02:02 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Whatever. Why does any of this matter?

We are where we are. Why aren't people's souls important? It's only where you can be labeled from that matters.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 145729


Because your soul can't be proven, but your genealogy can.

Your ancestors are a part of you, essentially.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 02:04 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Only biologically. When my ancestors came to America, we became Americans. We don't worry about the past.
Redheaded Stepchild nli
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09/20/2006 02:17 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
If I was the author of that article, I guess I would likely have written that they were descended from "Iberian" fishermen, rather than Spanish. There are Basques in Spain who have a different genetic fingerprint from what we consider "Spaniards." Besides, "Iberian" implies the entire penninsula. "Spain" and "Spanish" implies language, culture, ethnicity, and rule.

But that's just me.
mathetes

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09/20/2006 02:30 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Great post OP!
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 02:35 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
And before Spain, their homeland was Atlantis.
Old-fashioned Catholic

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09/20/2006 03:38 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Sykes' research is, as far as I know, totally worthless because he only looks at less than 15 'markers', which is not nearly enough to distinguish the various subpopulations ('stocks' of humans) within the large R1b haim_a_gay_spammerroup that spans most of western Europe.

It is common knowledge that for the R1b haim_a_gay_spammerroup, at least 37 and preferably 67 markers are required to reliably distinguish between subpopulations (a.k.a. clusters):

[link to www.ftdna.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 05:20 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
This is interesting.
In doing DNA research in part of my family who come from Galicia in Northern Spain, we found their genetic markers were identical to Irish, Scottish and Welsh/Briton markers.

Alot of people do not realize that the Galicians wear tartans, have bagpipes, and have their own dialect along with spanish.

My relatives on that side of the family have always understood that the Irish were descended from us.

So, I guess science is just now backing that up.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 05:57 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
If I was the author of that article, I guess I would likely have written that they were descended from "Iberian" fishermen, rather than Spanish. There are Basques in Spain who have a different genetic fingerprint from what we consider "Spaniards." Besides, "Iberian" implies the entire penninsula. "Spain" and "Spanish" implies language, culture, ethnicity, and rule.

But that's just me.
 Quoting: Redheaded Stepchild nli 142074

Yes, and other studies have confirmed DNA similarities between the Irish and the Basques, who are not the same as Spaniards.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 05:58 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Sykes' research is, as far as I know, totally worthless because he only looks at less than 15 'markers', which is not nearly enough to distinguish the various subpopulations ('stocks' of humans) within the large R1b haim_a_gay_spammerroup that spans most of western Europe.

It is common knowledge that for the R1b haim_a_gay_spammerroup, at least 37 and preferably 67 markers are required to reliably distinguish between subpopulations (a.k.a. clusters):

[link to www.ftdna.com]
 Quoting: Old-fashioned Catholic

Yes, and it also conflicts with research that has been done properly.
Ningishiddza

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09/20/2006 06:08 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
This is interesting.
In doing DNA research in part of my family who come from Galicia in Northern Spain, we found their genetic markers were identical to Irish, Scottish and Welsh/Briton markers.

Alot of people do not realize that the Galicians wear tartans, have bagpipes, and have their own dialect along with spanish.

My relatives on that side of the family have always understood that the Irish were descended from us.

So, I guess science is just now backing that up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137674


I already posted something on that. You'll find the same DNA markes in Poland in the region called "Galicia" and the same markers in Anatolia where the Galations lived (aka Galli, Gauls).

They are the same people and the migrated around quite a bit.

The Gallicians were one of the 3 groups that simultaneously attacked and hammered the Hittite civilization into obscurity.
Americanii-s de vina futu-i in gura sa-i fut
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2006 06:13 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Propaganda. File that one under the same British studies that "proved" short people are dumb and men are smarter than women. Still waiting on the study that "proves" English Males are superior to all other living species on the planet.
 Quoting: Dallas 92632


You need a study to tell you that? banana
GREY LENSMAN
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09/21/2006 09:16 AM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
I WAS REFERRING TO THE REFERENCED NEW BOOK BY SYKES.

HISTORY TELLS US THE WHY AND HOW OF OUR NOW AND PROVIDES CONTEXT.

HAVE YOU NOTICED THE GUY OBSESSED WITH THE IDEA THAT EUROPEANS, GREEKS, ROMANS ETC WERE BLACK. CLEARLY HE HAS A PROBLEM.

ALL OF US WERE ONCE BLACK, WHITE, CHINESE, INDIAN, ETC, ALL DESCENDED FROM A COMMON AFRICAN EVE AND ADAM.

SYKES WORK CONFIRMS MANY EXCITING NEW VIEWS OF EUROPE AND IN PARTICULAR PROTOCELTIC AND CELTIC CULTURE AND ITS WIDESPREAD NATURE.

TAKE STONEHENGE, IT WAS NOT BUILT BY A TRIBE OF ANIMAL SKINNED BARBARIANS BUT BY A VERY CULTURED AND LEARNED PEOPLE WITH A EUROPEAN WIDE CIVILISATION. THINK ABOUT THAT.

TODAY YOU DONT JUST HAVE NASA LAUNCHING SHUTTLES BUT A CONTINENTAL WIDE INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORTING IT IN SO MANY WAYS.

GL
Common Sense
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09/22/2006 01:09 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
I WAS REFERRING TO THE REFERENCED NEW BOOK BY SYKES.

HISTORY TELLS US THE WHY AND HOW OF OUR NOW AND PROVIDES CONTEXT.

HAVE YOU NOTICED THE GUY OBSESSED WITH THE IDEA THAT EUROPEANS, GREEKS, ROMANS ETC WERE BLACK. CLEARLY HE HAS A PROBLEM.

ALL OF US WERE ONCE BLACK, WHITE, CHINESE, INDIAN, ETC, ALL DESCENDED FROM A COMMON AFRICAN EVE AND ADAM.

SYKES WORK CONFIRMS MANY EXCITING NEW VIEWS OF EUROPE AND IN PARTICULAR PROTOCELTIC AND CELTIC CULTURE AND ITS WIDESPREAD NATURE.

TAKE STONEHENGE, IT WAS NOT BUILT BY A TRIBE OF ANIMAL SKINNED BARBARIANS BUT BY A VERY CULTURED AND LEARNED PEOPLE WITH A EUROPEAN WIDE CIVILISATION. THINK ABOUT THAT.

TODAY YOU DONT JUST HAVE NASA LAUNCHING SHUTTLES BUT A CONTINENTAL WIDE INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORTING IT IN SO MANY WAYS.

GL
 Quoting: GREY LENSMAN 144519


Grey Lensman,can you still remember the title of the book by Sykes on the Celts? Thanks.
GREY LENSMAN
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09/22/2006 01:19 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
QUOTE FROM THE OP

"These DNA "fingerprints" have enabled Professor Sykes to create the first genetic maps of the British Isles, which are analysed in Blood of the Isles, a book published this week."

mUST ADMIT, REREADING ITS NOT CLEAR IF THIS IS SYKES NEW BOOK OR ITS A BOOK THAT USES HIS NEW GENETIC ,APS

RE THE NIT PICKERS, YOU DONT NEED 60 ODD PLUS MARKERS TO PICK OUT SUBGROUPS. YOU NEED A LOT OF RAW DATA AND THEN USE THE HUMAN SPECIALITY OF CONTEXT. SAME WAY YOU SORT STUFF QUICKLY, YOU LOOK FOR THE ODD ONE OUT, NOT 60 ODD.

SYKES FINDINF REALLY DO ILLUSTRATE EUROPEAN EOVOLTION AND SPOT LIGHT THAT ONE GROUP CAME AND I REPEAT CAME FROM THE WEST.

HIS FINDINGS ALSO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT AGRICULTURE WAS DEVELOPED LOCALLY AND NOT IMPORTED ALONG WITH MANY OTHER THINGS.

THE RECENT DISCOVERY OF THE STONEHENGE ARCHER IS MASSIVE EVIDENC THAT HE IS CORRECT.

GL
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2006 01:40 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Listen to someone speaking Gaelic on streaming internet radio. Sounds Teutonic in origin.

[link to www.ibiblio.org]
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2006 02:52 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
This is of particular interest to me. My father was full blooded Basque and my mother is one half Basque and one half Gallega. (from Galicia) I'm trying to assemble a comprehensive family history which is proving to be difficult, perhaps this will help shed some light. Thanks OP!
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2006 02:57 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
First off to the Afro-centric spewing asshole who said E3b (Eshu) was native to Europe.

fuckoff2

They were the slaves of the Phoenicians and Romans.

Blacks can't handle cold climates. Their bodies are made for sub-Sahara Africa. They retain water different and are all around disgusting.

The main Phoenician DNA is found in parts of Wales, Scotland, England and Ireland. but it is not E3b or even African. It is Caucasian and originates in what is today Russia.

From this Caucasian DNA we get the current population of Europe. The most numerous being R1B1 and generally speaking the R group is by fay the largest European group out there.

Over half of Spain is R1b1 and in some parts of Ireland it reaches 98%.

African DNA falls into 4 main categories. A, B, C, and E.

Almost all Asians and Europeans descend from a group called K even though they have different letters representing them now. This includes R and Q which are numerous.

The curse of Adam was Professor Sykes first book on Y chromosome DNA and he also wrote another book called the Seven Daughters of Eve about Mitochondrial DNA.

www.oxfordancestors.com is their web address.
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2006 03:10 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Some claim that we all descended from apes but then, why are there still apes?
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2006 04:02 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Some claim that we all descended from apes but then, why are there still apes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12231


Whales are descended from four-legged creatures. If you examine whale skeletons you'll see the remnants of their hind legs. The evolution of whales from four-legged animals didn't cancel out the existence of all other four-legged creatures.
XXX
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09/22/2006 04:32 PM
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Re: Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
There are still Celts in Spain and they are called galicians and live in NW Spain. Irish legends speak of migrating from Spain. So what is the big deal?





GLP