Were You Part Of The "Mentally Gifted Minds" Program In California Scools back in the 70's?

Who says we are? Do you honestly think any of us share every little detail of our lives on GLP? Not to mention, we keep on labeling and defining each other the same way THEY labeled and defined us (Hi AC, who thinks he knows something about Bea, but doesn't have a clue, lol!) THAT is what keeps the status quo. I honestly know that everything I need to solve my personal puzzle (if I haven't already, but I'm not saying!)... is right here, not on GLP, but moving the fingers that are typing this missive.

And if some of us HAVE solved our personal puzzles, then we really can't be of much help to the rest. The whole those who know don't tell thing? It's not because we don't WANT to, it's because we can't express it properly, it gets mangled in the translation. And if you're focusing on suicide, then you're cold, as in not warm, not hot. There's nothing noble or uplifting about even considering taking yourself out. You're better than that.

Part of the human experience involves a very heightened sense of importance. This is why you have the commonly occurring man made creation myths, and various accounts of personal diregard to one's own well being. Whether a high number of loons on the internet claim to have been 'gifted', is just further proof of this fantasy. Every one of us wants to feel like we are different or special, hence the consumerism blatant in American society in the form of personal identity through attire.
It may be true that we have lost our sense of community to one another, but I would blame these thoughts of self importance, before technological advancement or appropriation of. I myself would like to remember a gifted class, although that is not the truth. The internet is a dangerous place because of the things we'd force ourselves to believe.

I was in a gifted program as a child/teen. I chose to totally annihilate "da specialz" as I got older and not let it define me. I realize that I'm only "da specialz" to a singular person, that person being Bea. I have no inflated sense of importance. I'm just a creative chick who makes her living slinging words on the internet, writing marketing copy for the consumers. To assume everyone is a loon because they want to Scooby Doo a big, bad mystery? No. It's the natural product of curious, agile minds. You don't inflate yourself by tearing others down, dude. People do what they do what they do, even gifted ones who's minds were messed with by those in authority. Tear those dudes down instead. It seems a more worthwhile pursuit.

I find it downright fascinating that the question of whether or not programming even exists is actually coming up again. I'm going to review the evidence for the usage of hypnosis, post-hypnotic suggestion and "attitude/character shaping" in one post.

1. Dr. Krippner in the GCQ article titled "Hypnosis and Creativity" suggests the use of hypnosis and post-hypnotic suggestion to assist and shape problem solving among gifted children.

2. John Curtis Gowan also suggests the use of hypnosis and other techniques that have a dissociative effect (not-me) on children. Also has an intention of shaping these "mutant roses" for the purpose of paradigm shift and viewed himself to be their gardener.

3. Don Bushnell writes a long paper for the DoD on attitude and character shaping using the Socratic method via computer in order to generate what is desirable views. To his credit, he does question the ethics of it.

4. Numerous articles (>20) in regards to attitude and character shaping for gifted children. An example of the level of criticism of a gifted child's attitudes can be displayed with this, "One non-conformist in the classroom wrote that he would rather be in school than in an enemy country where bombs were falling. He expressed his attitude toward school more truly then he knew. He evidently considered war and school on about the same plane." (Attitudes: Their Significance in Education for the Gifted, Peachman). Or perhaps the child was simply stating that his current location was better than being in a location where the threat of death exists--common sense being labeled as "non-conformist". Peachman also stated in the same article, "School studies should not be allowed to absorb the child's entire attention or even the major part of it. The physical, the social, and the moral aspects of the lives of these children are of the greatest importance." Basically, a specialized education program whose purpose isn't necessarily to educate...interesting, isn't it?

However, that's what you get when you have a program that is being administered not by educators but mandated by law to be governed by the field of psychology. If they were concerned about our education, then we would have seen high level educators in our programs. That wasn't the case at all. I think that's probably the most damning aspect of the gifted program.

Programming, indoctrination, psychological and/or emotional manipulation through top psychologists and software programmers for the DoD--whatever flavor you want to call it, it all tastes the same.

Why do you imply people participating in this thread weren't really in gifted programs?

These programs included those with IQs (or other factors) in the top 1-5% of the population. In other words, MILLIONS of people in the US. Why is it hard to believe that a handful of these millions might happen to be involved with this thread?

I was in a gifted program. It doesn't make me particularly special. Plenty of average to bright people in society function better than I do, and, like I said, all a gifted program means is that I'm in the top few MILLION in this country in intelligence-as-judged-by-IQ-tests. But it's a real part of my past.

(In addition, internet forums by nature favor those who enjoy reading and writing, and tend to self-segregate due to subject matter and communication style. Therefore, some forums tend to have a much higher percentage of former-gifted-program participants than the general population.)

Last Edited by AlkaliDesert on 12/07/2012 09:09 PM

Takes a certain kind of person to use a another's suicide attempts as a debate weapon and then, dish out some more backhanded commentary on anyone else who actually is concerned about the program, in which as evidence has shown, was really freaking questionable in regards to ethics and legality...all in the same day.

But hey, you don't have kids and I do so maybe that has something to do with my feeling the need to scooby doo this shit.

You're misunderstanding what I said. I was saying that suicide isn't the answer. It never is, it never was. We're better than that. And that calling people loons for exploring what happened is wrong. I can't figure out the dissonance with us lately, you're reading different meanings that are completely opposite of what I'm saying into the things I say. Please tell me what I said that offended you, because I've re-read everything I've said to you the past few days multiple times and I can't figure out why you're taking an entirely different meaning from my words. So if you could, please read that again slowly and break it down to me. You know I don't enjoy miscommunication, especially with someone I respect.

And if it's my flippant, irreverent tone that bothers you, I am who I am. I've been those things from day one. I think I popped out that way. Because you either laugh or you cry. And sometimes you do both. We all deal in our own ways.

I saw that you did tell the person that it wasn't an option and that they were better than that but you still also used it to undermine them. That was cold, plain and simple.

And yes, it was the flippant and irreverent tone of your next post that bothered me. Making light of everything isn't always a good thing. Sometimes it's just inappropriate. I agree, normally we don't bash against each other so much but these ARE things that would have always grated on me. Maybe you've just been a little too flippant and insensitive to others today?

No, we all have our own personalities, mine hasn't changed in the past bit at all. If you read undermine in it, that was your own projection, not my intention. We've talked about that before, how "triggers" pop up to inject despair. If I see someone mention that one, it bugs me, makes me suspicious of their true intentions. We're better than that. We're better than lots of things we do. And I think we touched on this earlier, I told you something that explains why I said it. My friend, he was one of us. So forgive me if I'm flippant, the alternative is wallowing in it on the anniversary.

Yep, you did but you're not personally one who has attempted suicide in the past, have you? Do you know what depths of despair and no hope of escape one feels when they are at that point? I do, personally. It's horrendous. That's why I NEVER use someone's suicide attempts against them in any kind of argument. And you did undermine. You said this:



If you didn't mean to undermine, then perhaps you could better illuminate your meaning and intention because it reads very cold in itself.

And the scooby doo remark--I'm sorry, I take offense. I agree, you are normally a pretty free spirit and I respect you for that as well as I generally respect and appreciate your humor. However, equating what people have been trying to do here for the past 2 years to a cheesy 70's cartoon? Come on, Bea. You're better than that, yourself.

No, Scooby Doo is slang for solving a mystery. If I'm guilty of anything, it's hanging out with people much younger than me and taking up their quirks of language.

Cold, meaning on the wrong track. Like you're getting warmer, warmer. We're better than ingrained programming.

And while I haven't tried directly, I'll admit it was sheer cowardice that prevented it. I've attempted it indirectly too many times to count. I just don't talk about my self-destructive times out loud, but there have been many, many, too many. Not lately, but I've been there. But no, I don't want to talk about it. I'm not ashamed, but I'm not proud.

Wow...I had to do the same kind of. 5th grade gifted. Florida. Circa 1999. Except it had to do with an underwater living facility. We had to come up with ideas and then ask an expert how it actually worked.

Most of the people that I talk to on a regular basis are young people, too, and they have not used "scooby doo" as a slang. Maybe it's a regional thing. It's still really not cool to use even cartoon based slang on this particular subject. Most of the time you either state that nothing was done to you or that they didn't get to you or something along those lines. I'm someone that HAS had things happen to them and you know damn well that I have some pretty creepy evidence of it. Most days, I'm sitting here reflecting on the reality that either people will a. think I'm nuts or b. run the hell away from me if I explain even a fraction of what I have found in my own personal life in this "sccoby do mystery". Then to have it relegated to a cheesy cartoon by someone who I had considered a friend and that I thought I could talk about these things with. Nice, Bea. You should probably get that bit of young slang.

And in so far as you're dictating whether somebody is close to anything in regards to ingrained programming, I don't think you're necessarily a good judge of that. Like I said above, most of the time, you think that they did nothing to you or didn't affect you. If your experience/outcome was so different, perhaps it's not because of anything particular to you but a difference in program? In either case, you're about as good of a judge as to whether someone has shed ingrained programming as I or anybody else on this thread is. Honestly, the only person that I've seen that actually knew something about the program was the Ludens nut. And that's kind of sad. lol

No, we just have a personality conflict and you're choosing to attack mine, which hasn't changed in the entire time you've known me. So, I'll bow out gracefully and allow you to pursue your line of thought without me. I won't react emotionally toward it, I realize it's not me at all. And that's ok. I don't blame or judge you for it. I realize my input's not needed here. And I say that with no malice or ill-will toward you, we are what we are and you have just as much right to be you as I do to be me. I'll just be Bea somewhere else. I sincerely hope you find the answers you're looking for.

I stumbled across this thread back in July after an odd series of events led me to google the mgm program of the 70's in CA. Some of you may remember that I eagerly jumped in sharing my awe at the number of us that wound up here, and my blatant questions which triggered a snobby coldness that shut this site down for awhile. I have continued to check for new entries and also to catch up on the almost 3 yr long thread. I have many questions but want to avoid the animosity that seems to arise with new disclosure or possible memory triggers. Whatever, I'm rambling. Is anyone else resistant to hypnosis? Also, my memory of the MGM program was that when it changed to GATE (California) in the early 80's, they completely changed the criteria for eligibility as well as the structure of the program and it became the precursor to the EEP which is mostly academic.

I remember you. Defenestrate, right? And yes, this thread has a nasty habit of derailing after disclosures. I apologize for this last one but honestly, enough was enough. We've uncovered far too much that seems really rather unethical, is worthy of serious questioning and public disclosure, and more. Welcome back and I do mean that. I hope that you've been well.

As far as hypnosis goes, yes and no. One of the things that was initially done with me to try to lift some of my amnesia issues was 3 attempts at hypnotic regression (unsanctioned by school and parent, btw). The first two attempts were successful in helping me recall a couple of late childhood events (later confirmed by my parents). The third attempt was an absolute failure. I was in a hypnotic state but I was basically describing the white and black "fan" that used to be there whenever I closed my eyes. Sounds weird but eh, that's what I described and I don't see the "fan" anymore--just boring black and that is kind of unnerving after a lifetime of "fan", lol. Go figure. There was one more attempt to hypnotize me and that failed utterly--not even a hypnotic state. The psychologist stated that I was "blocked" and that hypnotic regression would not work with me. It was really frustrating.

I used to be able to hypnotize myself (through breathing and visualization). I can no longer do that anymore, post-thread. I've tried multiple times and I can't figure out the impediment. It may be the distraction of the black or the fact that my eyes no longer roll back anymore when I close my eyes. Kind of gross but...lol I put in allt he detail in case there is anything that anyone else may recognize.

Lol yes oblique defenestration which someone, possibly the OP alluded to as a nefarious kill switch or something, and I only remember as a group project that led to the riddle of the phoenix. I am intrigued by the similarities and yet, now that most of those memories have returned, I also remember there being cliques even within the mgm program. This bickering and oneuping reminds me of these things. So many things I'd like to say or ask and yet unsure if it would even be beneficial.

Forgive me if I sound dense, but do you believe that there were certain triggers subliminally placed or do you have that perfectionistic drive that leads to suicidal ideation in times of great stress and/or perceived failure? I know I have an immediate response to run away or kill myself in those times, but never connected it with the mgm program. I've always been overly perfectionistic with myself. In my 20's I was like that with everyone but have realized that it is unrealistic to expect that kind of drive from anyone. And yet, it's that strict opinion of myself that has prevented me from completing so many things in my life as they were not good enough.

forgot to add my name

My apologies for causing the disagreement between Armchair and Bea. I have my own qualms with Bea though not on any sort of personal level but on what I see as her being a regulatory voice of status-quo on this thread. It isn't my nature to just analyze something and do nothing about it. That is me.

Do I sometimes want revenge against the obviously unethical behavior? At times, yes, it burns within me, but I try to temper it against losing myself in the anger and rage and maintain a more love-type vibration.

Do I want full disclosure? Yes, more than anything just to prove to my family (who discounts all of the memories I have recovered in the last year) and to expose this sick nature of any people/agency that would do the things they did to young children and stop any ongoing and planned future programs.

The history between Bea and me goes back about a year including a few disagreements on this thread and another MKULTRA one where I tried rallying others together to experiment with possible "gifts" we may have besides the surface IQ numbers we were given. In all of my attempts, she became the voice against, which of course she has every right to do. But, what rubbed me wrong, is much of what Armchair noted above. She seems to think that the program did nothing to her, but then likes being involved in analyzing and commenting on others' experiences regarding the program. My experience is that she diffuses anything that would resemble action/combination of our abilities toward any sort of purpose. She is extremely likable with a vibrant personality and an excellent mind, yet I view her, again, as a status-quo keeper - opposite of me.

I must admit that I find this program and it's methods to be both intriquing and scary, on one hand, I can see why someone would want to understand more fully what makes a person be able to walk into a room and see the past or feel the turmoil within someone else's mind. What I don't understand is what they were thinking would be accomplished by essentially handing a group of children the keys to the kingdom without ever telling them where the locks are, so to speak. There are so many things about me that my family have never understood and my children now think I'm a crazy conspiracist. But I never realized how much of my thinking was actually shaped by the program. I have not looked in the mkultra stuff yet as I have spent what little sparetime I have reading this thread and googling various memories to see what pops up. This for me, has been one hell of a year, to say the least.

Please do not take my observations as trying to one-up anyone. I only speak from my own unique perspective which I believe overlaps (like a Venn diagram) others who come to this thread. Bickering will not get us anywhere, that is, for those who want to even try and get anywhere, for those who have some fight in them for justice and disclosure.

To Lisa:

I initially pondered the MKULTRA stuff with much cynicism. The rabbit hole gets even darker when going in that direction. I would have probably remained skeptical if it weren't for my own experiences compared against info (and most likely large amounts of disinfo) out there on the subject. Had to do a complete reassessment of many past experiences which began to come together like a puzzle and led me straight back to the MGM program. This whole process also jarred free memories of being in that special classroom and the unusual techniques they used to assess, access, and condition our minds. I believe this is when I hit the suicidal threshold or what may possibly be referred to as "code green". Even had just started dating a girl with the last name "Green" (stage name), with multiple butterfly tattoos on her lower back, along with other MKULTRA indicators...Jungian synchronicity in full effect or an orchestrated message? These are only a couple examples of the "weirdness" of this last year, things that would probably not register for people who choose to avoid the rabbit hole.

Well, I tend to jump into deepwater so I guess I'm going to research MKULTRA and try to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Is it a butterfly effect type thing? You mentioned butterfly tattoos and I remember thinking of the butterfly effect when reading up on one of the founders life's work. Names just fly past me but I think it was Rice? My memory gets quirky at times, it's kind of strange to have an idetic memory and memory loss at the same time. I think of it as short circuits due to nerve damage in my neck, but it could be cannabis related not really sure.

ok, new question. One of the founders was studying the gifts of animals, like their ability to sense a natural disaster before it happens etc, and found that some gifted individuals also had this capability. So are most of you able to communicate with animals and/or "know" what they're thinking or feeling? It seems to be an inherited trait in my lineage.

Has anyone else taken Gowen's nds self test and were you able to access the answer key? Because every time I follow the link it takes me to the home page. JW if anyone found the answer key via a different link.

Oh my god, I jumped into that rabbit hole and you weren't kidding when you said it was dark. Sadly enough, it made me think of my great grandmother who supposedly lost her mind at the age of 40 because she started menopause. She was in her 80's when she finally died, spent more than 40 years as a babbling vegetable in a rest home in California. When I read that they included um ppl with postpartum depression among other things in their experiments, I thought of her. I've never heard of anyone losing their mind for real from menopause and google hasn't either. At least it didn't a few years ago when I looked, but I've noticed that google sometimes erases things that I've previously found and read

This is probably a stab in the dark...

Does anyone have fuzzy memories/dreams of going to school/classes in run down abandoned schools? They probably had tall grass to walk through to get there, were in isolated areas, and the buildings (other than the classrooms) were in general disrepair.