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Subject REVELATIONS A Clue to Understanding it!!!

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[quote:Anonymous Coward 8407446:MV8xNzY4MzEzXzI5MzQ2OTM0X0QyODRFOUI2]
All of this makes me think, how Satan uses everything to deceive. He even uses the scriptures. Jesus says The sower soweth the word, he also says the devil sows seed.

Since sheep "HEAR" and others do not hear, how is their religion formed? I have an opinion...

First off let me say, I love the scriptures, I think they are from God, and are truth, this truth, is revealed by the author, and the author is to be known. The truth is within the text, explained by the same one who wrote it, if we interpret it; we end up with a private interpretation. The author is greater than the book, yet that doesn't diminish the book, or the truth that it contains.

Today many know the bible, but have never had God become real to them. Most people have never had God make himself known to them even through a beautiful sunset. To most God is just history, or he is way off in space somewhere. The importance is not in experiences, but instead experiencing God. I contend, you have to experienced God. Possibly he opens the scriptures to you, and makes them come alive; they became a "word" of God to you.

It would be like you and I having coffee everyday together, sharing life and all things included. We would age together and become deep friends. We may never have a spiritual experience, but we would definitely experience each other, as Moses experienced God at the tent, when Miriam and Aron spoke against Moses, and God spoke about how He and Moses were friends. Moses experienced God. God was experienced by everyone we read about in the OT and the NT.

You know the parable of the sower, the seeds sown by Jesus, and the seeds sown by the Devil. Those seeds manifest themselves for what they really are. These are people, could be religious, like the pharisees, who were called children of the devil by Jesus. They may be the nicest, sweetest people, but what seed are they of?

I fear that the so-called church, the large visible body that meets on the corner of every city in America is missing God. There are many within this so-called visible church (though fewer in number) that truly belong to Jesus, these are the invisible church. From my point of view, the visible church has sprung up not from experiencing God, but from its exposure to the bible "The Scriptures", but this is not necessarily so, of the invisible church "The Ecklesia".

For example most people throughout history couldn't read, we had no printing presses, and when printed most people couldn't afford the bible, this is seen during the dark ages, yet the ecklesia thrived. How? It wasn't because they had a bible; it was because God was real and made himself known to them. Possibly through someone who had a bible, but probably not.

Brother Lawrence / Laubach; in his book practicing the presence; makes the claim that God became real to him, by seeing a tree losing it leaves, knowing life would again come to the tree the following year.

Here forgive me.... Let me expound more and just be open, even though we don't know each other, possibly we can glean from one another as two who see the forest from different angles?

Could it be, that True and False Christianity...Are both produced by the Bible. Everything is about contrast (light, dark, evil, and good), or it's to express God's glory, and his many attributes...God even created evil for this purposes.

The contrast in Christianity is the true church, and the false church. The invisible ecklesia -vs- the large visible body of people in every church, on every corner. The wheat, and the chaff or tare. The good seed and the bad seed. The Pharisee, and Jesus, sheep and Goats, Light and darkness.

Today is a replay of the life of Jesus in his body singular (the one that died on the cross); now this body "His Body" is plural, many membered...The same prosecutions, torments, dying, will happen in us as it did in him. Now the Pharisees are the religious of today. True Christianity and false Christianity, is so close, to the real church, the real walk, the real life...So close that it could even fool the elect, if that were possible....

So how does God establish the tare, this large so-called church. Do we see it throughout time? Yes, and it all started with two trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge. We see the essence of these two trees, in many forms. One is in the visible church, and the invisible church, the wheat and tare.

The large visible church exists and is sustained by the visible, tangible, written word (The Bible). They find themselves at home with the text, they can control it, they build laws, rules, religious rituals, and doctrines. By this same knowledge they also remove God, who is Spirit, out of their midst, issues of control, a form of religion, and rules, that denies the power thereof. There is no body ministry, led of God's Spirit.

Do you think this would all be obvious, and plainly visible, or only visible to us by discernment? It had to be hidden, even from those who were in the midst of it, or else they would not have participated. Both sides, real and false are hidden, even from themselves. If not hidden, you couldn't get anyone to participate in this plan of God.

I'm not against these people; most are genuine, nice, sweet people. But we are discussing truth here. Now God is revealing these things to us, and getting ready to reveal us to each other, to reveal the true church to herself, to reveal the false church to the true.

While most of the members of both groups are wonderful people and well intentioned, the visible false church, is still like the Pharisees of old. They search the scriptures daily, but won't come to Christ, that they might have life. In fact they were never destined to life, this is what the scriptures say, the body / the ecklesia / the invisible church has life, they were destined to life, from the beginning.

The true body, the ecklesia exist by "the word", they know a hidden walk, they know the masters voice. This has got to be the common denominator throughout time, since many could not read, and the few that could read, didn't have a copy of the bible. Yet the Ecklesia flourished, even in the dark ages, and in countries that never allowed sacred texts, like China, and Russia...

Today both flourish, and this thing called church, or churchianity, has said to all, we represent God. But they do not, and God is getting ready to show this world, his true church, the ecklesia....God's mercy, and the world demand such an event, to rid God, of the stain of falsehood. Whether that be TV preachers, or even all the pain caused to so many in the name of God by so-called Christianity, which was NOT Christianity, but instead, it was this false church the large, visible church, this system.

God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, "churchianity". He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

There is no way for light and darkness to fellowship together and there is NO way all those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ. That encounter must take place...We must experience God.

So there is no way they can fellowship with you, or you with them, if you are part of that invisible "REAL" church, for what fellowship does light have with darkness. You might as well go to a Safeway store and try and "do church" with all the people there, it will not work.

Remember Jesus says "my sheep hear my voice", and man shall not live by bread alone, the word of the Lord came unto, peter rise and eat, ETC. You see what I mean? "The word of the Lord" via "The scriptures" can become a fresh word to you, but, we can not use the terms "The word" and "the bible" interchangeably.

The point I'm making is, there is a lot written in the bible about hearing, hardly anything about reading. Everything written in the bible was spoken before it was written. Genesis was spoken, and then written by Moses.

We must come to a common denominator, for people to receive Christ, to hear the message, or to experience Christianity, and it cannot be the bible, even though God has used the scriptures to do so on occasion. Still I love the scriptures, and they are true, they are God inspired. They have just been elevated to a position by this false church, where they have taken the place of God.

Also to express my point, do this: Every place in the scriptures where it says, "the word" or "the word came unto" replace every instance with "The bible"....It just will not make sense...

As far as people hearing "The word" vs studying "The scriptures" I see a big difference between the two. One is heard, one is read. Many can read, few can hear. One is always spoken, and one is written, but can be made alive to you, and become a spoken word. God also speaks apart from the scriptures, remember God spoke to Adam and Moses before there was a written bible.

Thus we have interchanged the two, elevating "The bible" above God, and the leading of the Spirit, and we have placed the bible above "The Word"...

I wonder, could we say that we love the scriptures, and that they are inspired, but God never meant for us to live by them, nor the Jewish people the Torah. But instead by the Spirit / the word / His breath...His words of promise, leading us into all truth?

We have two types of church. Those led by the Spirit, and those seeing and leaning only on "The book". I love the scriptures, and I have several bibles. BUT we must not elevate the bible above God, and I'm afraid that is what many churches (people) have done.

The "Word" and "The bible" are not one and the same...The common denominator throughout time Has been God reaching out to man, possibly by a sunset, or a person who was "LED" of the spirit to witnesses to you, or God speaks to you, but God has not, at all times used the bible. Of course there are times that the Spirit moves someone, through the use of Scripture, but that is not my point.

What do we say of the first 3000 years of man, until Moses wrote the Torah, where was God? He was doing what he has always done, personally interacting with man.

The faith we have is more than intellectual knowledge, it IS LIFE...Two trees were in the garden; today we face that same thing? "Knowledge" OR "Life"...
[/quote]

Original Message First let me say whether or not you believe in God is irrelevant to how you comprehend a written language other than that God says that he would send the evil and disobedient a strong delusion so that they would believe a lie (whatever that lie may be) you decide.

Also for those of you that feel that "God is Love" (he is but not in the way some preachers use it) and He would never deceive us or punish us etc.. Please read the story of the Jewish King Ahab and what God did on his behalf to ensure that he was killed. For those of you that don't know, God sent a hundred prophets to Lie to him. But since God is "Love" He also sent One prophet to tell him the truth! He believed the lies and subsequently was killed. But read it for yourself.

Anyway back to The Book of Revelations.

One of the ways you can tell a prophet was inspired by God is the style of writing.
One of Gods signatures in his prophecies is that He jumps around in how he describes events meaning forward and backwards in no particular order. Which makes sense because to God a day is a thousand years and a thousand years a day..

The jumping around helps to confuse the reader unless you have become accustomed to it. Confusing helps protect the Mystery.

But since in these times it seems things are becoming more clear we can understand things a bit better and Mysteries are being revealed.

This Jumping around happens in Revelations and to help clear things up this one simple Clue really helps!

Its simple!

The Seven Trumpets that begin to blow in Chapter 8 are the same events as the seven Vials that are poured out beginning in chapter 16.
If you super impose the two its easy to see. So when you read it beginning in chapter 8 with the fist Trumpet read also the first Vial pouring in chapter 16. Do the same for each one.

Whats mentioned in the chapters between is similar to a footnote as to what happens during the period of the trumpets and vials and is Not an after event.

So if you look at a timeline of the World history events we can see the major events and how they correlate to the Trumpets and Vials in revelations. There are Not 14 events. there are only 7 events total the seventh being the end.

Once that is clear we can begin to work on the rest such as the two witnesses and so on.

This should really help! And one day it will all be clear as day!

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