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Drudgery: Watching for Clues
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[quote:Keep2theCode:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMzMjI3XzFCNDJGMDJG] [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] On the contrary, the entire philosophy of modern Christianity is hinged on the idea that one only needs to believe that Jesus died for their sins and accept him as their savior. The reward for doing this is 'eternal life in heaven'. The punishment for failing to do this is 'eternal life in hell.' Then one carries on with their life according to their own interpretation of how Jesus would want them to live with no real struggle to become like him. [/quote] Gifts and rewards are mutually exclusive; nothing can be both at the same time. A gift is from the goodness of the giver's heart, not the payment of a wage for services rendered. Salvation is a gift; rewards are earned wages. But to use your earlier phrase, "you couldn't be more wrong" about the alleged license to sin. Paul said point blank, "We died to sin; how can we keep living in it?" To sin occasionally is to be human, but to wallow in sin exposes the fact that the relationship is not there. And certainly it is NOT left up to anyone's imagination! We do have freedom and latitude, but it is [i]from[/i] sin, not [i]to[/i] sin. How can anyone claim to be a Christian and not care how Jesus wanted them to live? There is only so much that can be left to interpretation in regard to "Love is the fulfillment of the law, because love does no harm to its neighbor". And again, we are totally miscommunicating on the meaning of "struggle". How can it be a struggle to work for what I desire? How can it be a struggle to relax my grip on my life? These things are the opposite of struggle. Yet at the same time, if I strive for excellence, I am working and thus earning rewards. But this is not a struggle, only an effort. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] Why? Because he has already given you the gift of eternal reward. The bulk of his rewards are given at the choice to accept him. After that, the deeds one does for him throughout the remainder of one's life assures only a better place in the hierarchy of heaven. Rewards within rewards.[/quote] [b]Eternal life is not eternal reward[/b], as I explained above. We all have great [i]potential[/i] to earn them, but not all live up to that potential. Being born is a gift; but growing is work. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] The fact that you enjoy living your life in accordance with the perceptions you have about this belief system is in my view superfluous. [/quote] A rather arrogant statement, in my view. My choice of life is superfluous because you don't agree with it philosophically? It may not make sense to you, but it does to me, and I hardly call that superfluous. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] At its heart, it is a reward vs. punishment system. One act of belief carries with it eternal rewards/punishments.[/quote] You seem to have the idea that God is like Zeus with his thunderbolts, rather than a good parent as I mentioned before. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] [b]Whereas, at the heart of my philosophy lies a lifetime of struggle[/b] with just a fleeting chance at freedom. There is no hierarchy. There is only a cubic centimeter of chance. It is geared for maximum achievement and efficient realization of spiritual potential.[/quote] I wouldn't want "a lifetime of struggle". I'd rather bask in the warmth of God's love and go around spreading that love to others. It also frees me to study whatever I want, as long as I want, with nobody pushing me or waiting to slap me with a ruler if I screw up. I did mention something about this being a reconciliation, remember? Do you really think God is just watching me so he can zap me if I screw up? I understand you may have heard this in church, but that doesn't make it true. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMxMDgxX0ExNDNBMTc1] No, I mean the ability. Mankind has developed an endless folly expressed in their complete disregard for the importance of the internal dialogue. What is an ability...talking to ourselves (learned in the years after birth)...has become something most of us have totally forgotten about. It has drained our awareness. It has put the focus of attention on words and the importance of words.[/quote] I find this a rather broad brush with which to paint the entire human race. But it's consistent with your apparent disgust for us all. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] This has created a social structure where words are important, and thus, the ideas communicated through the words of our fellow man have been given the power to pin us down. The ideas and expectations of our fellow man now determine who we are more than our own ideas. As a whole, we have fallen into the pit of conformity. Individualism and individual expression and intent are now threatened with extinction.[/quote] Words are only tools, expressions of thoughts. Are we supposed to read each other's minds? Would that change anything? I think it goes without saying that we all tend to bow to peer pressure, but there have always been exceptions. Jesus used the phrase "narrow way" and I think it fits here as well. But who or what is to blame for what the majority do? You blame an alleged abandonment of "internal dialog" but I see no connection between the two. Some people go with the crowd, and some don't; this is the history of mankind. [quote:Keep2theCode:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMxNTU5XzFDRkQ5NUUx] But, no doubt you also crave to be healthy, attractive, free of diabetes perhaps? These things would contradict your craving for chocolate. Thus things are much more complicated than you let on. You are struggling within yourself. If you just ate chocolate all day you would find the quality of your life to be deteriorating quickly. Of course there is struggle against ourselves. We are crooked creatures of contradiction and routine. A warrior's crowning achievement is to straighten out the human form. To work out the kinks and the contradictions.[/quote] Weighing options is what everybody has always had to do, even the most superficial and peer-controlled. But what I was talking about was [b]the desire to grow spiritually[/b]. It was a specific illustration for a specific point. THAT particular desire is not a struggle. I can't think of another way to put it. And I think you're over-complicating this specific point, rather than me over-simplifying a point I was never trying to make in the first place. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMxMDgxX0ExNDNBMTc1] Oh come now. A parent provides a child clothes. A good parent provides a child with the knowledge to obtain the clothes for himself/herself. Just as a wise man teaches a hungry man how to fish, rather than just giving him one.[/quote] Exactly. That's what I'm saying God does regarding salvation of the soul. Clearly we aren't communicating. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMxMDgxX0ExNDNBMTc1] Ask a person on welfare the same thing.[/quote] Apples and oranges. SOMEBODY has to pay for welfare BY FORCE. God was never forced to do anything for us; it was purely an act of mercy. Nobody was robbed to give me eternal life. Are [i]you[/i] saying that if a man buys an engagement ring for a woman, that she has to earn it or she takes it-- and him-- for granted? Can't you ever allow a gift to be given? I can't over-emphasize this point: salvation is a gift; rewards are earned wages. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMxMDgxX0ExNDNBMTc1] Who are you to claim that we shouldn't struggle against ourselves in order to reach our nearly limitless potential? You basically said that having the ability to act impeccably was in effect a 'declaration' that one is equal to God. As if striving to reach our potential is somehow offensive to God. Yet, when I turn around and say that 'declaring' yourself saved is equally bad, you take great offense.[/quote] I claim what God has told us in the Bible, nothing more. Yes we struggle with sin; nobody denies that. But this is as true of the "babe in Christ" as the long-lived disciple. What makes the difference between the two extremes is that the disciple wants something more than failing to sin; they want to please their Savior by striving and working to become more like Him. Have you not read the parable of the talents? People choose how much or how little reward they want. But they are all saved by grace through faith alone. I don't know where you got the idea that I said acting impeccably means declaring oneself equal to God; I've said the exact opposite and even gave the illustration to explain further. I don't know how that got twisted so completely backwards. I also don't know why you think I took "great offense". I really don't. [quote:Jonny Blaze:MV8yMDMyMTI3XzM0NDMyMjU5X0IwNzJDOEE=] I see that for you, in my view, words are far too important. In my view, words are almost meaningless when compared to actions. [/quote] What? Re. words and actions, we all know the saying "actions speak louder than words". Why do you think I would disagree with that? And what "actions" are we supposed to be demonstrating in a conversation in a message board? Words are all we have here, buddy. But I would not say that words are meaningless; why else would anyone ever use them? :sigh: Well, I think this horse is beaten to death now. Anyway, thanks for the workout. [/quote]
Original Message
Some say that The Drudge Report gives out subtle clues via the pictures or headlines of a given day. Here is the link to Drudge: [
link to www.drudgereport.com
]
Today I see lots of "finger pointing". Are we about to see the MSM present a scapegoat and a boatload of excuses for Benghazi this week, to condition people before the election?
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