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Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTkxNzk0X0MyRDlDNDY2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTkxNDI4XzJBRERFRkRG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTkxMTIwXzIyQ0RBNTA2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTkwMzQ4X0MxNzQzOUI5] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTkwMTM1X0YzMDAwN0FE] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg5OTA1Xzk2NTY2M0VD] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg5NTQ5X0YyOTYxM0E3] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg5Mjg0XzI1REQzNjkz] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg5MDY3XzIxRDM5RUM5] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg4OTE2X0FFRjg2NDcy] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg4NzMxXzgzNEJFNTk=] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30518774:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg4NjAyX0JCRDJENjE3] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg4NDAwXzU2NTg2MzU1] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30525185:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg4MDY3Xzk5NkZGOUFD] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg3NDA2X0U3NThENjM2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30525185:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg3MTc5XzNFNkQ5RjhC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg3MDIyX0Q1MEFEODcx] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30531093:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg2ODIzXzE0QTJERTNB] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg2NzI2XzZGOTQ2RDg4] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30531093:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg2NDQzXzRCRTI4MEQ4] [quote:Anonymous Coward 20657814:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg2MTIwXzgyN0FCNDBG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 30531093:MV8yMDkwMDc0XzM1MTg1NzU2XzMyNjA1NEEx] Do you prefer a feel good lie, or a terrifying truth? There's only one God. Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and [b]severity[/b] of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[a] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. [/quote] That verse is just peachy IF you think that YOU are GOOD. But what is good? Look at the Pharisees. If you would have asked them, they would have told you they were good. They followed each and every one of the OT laws. But Jesus thought they were sons of Satan. Did you ever wonder why? The answer lies in your own heart...that heart that thinks he/she is good. You are not GOOD. You have deceit in your heart, just like the Pharisees. You think you are better than most everyone alive, just like the Pharisees. You easily see the sin in others but fail to see that big log floating around in your own eye, just like the Pharisees. You have a huge ego and too much pride, just like the Pharisees. You probably look so righteous, but God will see this as self-righteousness, just like the Pharisees. They looked good on the outside but the inside was filthy. They judged others as unworthy but thought they were fit for the kingdom. I think you could be just like them. You seem so sure you are good and righteous and perfect. Think again. Anyone who thinks that his fellow man is worthy of being tormented forever, IS NOT A GOOD PERSON. That is the end of the story. If you judge a person to be worthy of forever torment, Jesus would tell you that this judgment will be turned back upon you. [b]I think Jesus was all about love but you are siding with evil.[/b] [/quote] A direct quote from Jesus: Matthew 25:46 "[b]Then they will go away to eternal punishment[/b], but the righteous to eternal life." [/quote] Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave. My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy. I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do. Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell. Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven. A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road. So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones. What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. [b]This is why I am an atheist.[/b] [/quote] I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found. For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about. After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details. Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations. Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated. [/quote] I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD. The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream. I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT? [/quote] I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it? [/quote] Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens. Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more. [/quote] So the only possible explanation is that they're lying? [/quote] Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real. In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life? Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not? [/quote] Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is. Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists? [/quote] The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe. You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me. [/quote] What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same. With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right? [/quote] I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you. I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me. [/quote] So there is no possibility whatsoever that these very intelligent men and women are wrong? How do you know that the dinosaur fossils weren't made in a lab to support an agenda? Have you yourself actually analysed the fossils and/or dug them up from the soil? [/quote] The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. My son took a college course in evolution and it is complicated and difficult to understand. Frankly, I am not intelligent enough to understand most of it. BUT....I do trust the scientists who put all this effort into finding the truth of this. And there is evidence in the form of fossils. And 93 percent of all scientists are atheists because they know that evolution is real. What I can't believe in is myths. I don't believe there is some invisible man in the sky who can see me and who knows what I'm thinking. I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was six. I don't believe in a mythical place called heaven where I will live forever. Even the thought of living forever is laughable. What does one do for a zillion, zillion years without being so bored they would like to die? And they can't die, so that would be hell. I am bored in this short life so I would not want to live forever. I believe in things that are real and true. The garbage in the Bible, the men who live in whales and walk on water and raise people from the dead, etc., is the stuff of fantasy and it is for children. If you want to believe it, more power to you. And I can understand why you would because I suppose it is a nice thought to think that someone up there cares, but I only value truth. [/quote] Ok. I'm a biochemist (scientist) and I will know that there is no doubt that Christ and the Lord is real. You are quite silly fully believing in scientific theories. Most of the scientists that create them don't even fully believe in them - that's why they're called theories. [/quote] If you are a biochemist, which I doubt, then you would have to have some PROOF for what you believe. Start with Jesus. There is absolutely zero evidence that, a man named Jesus who was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead, existed. As someone else noted, there is more evidence for the existence of Hercules. There were numerous myths about rising and dying savior gods long before the Jesus myth came to pass. So if you DO believe in this, why? I would really like to know. Why do you want to believe a story that has no proof? There has to be a reason. Look at your own heart and tell me why? I believe in the "theory" of gravity and the "theory" of evolution. IF you were really a scientist, you would know that theories are seen as facts. Scientific theories are not just believed because it is convenient to believe them. [/quote] Look, just because we might not have the answers or proof that these things occurred, that does not mean that they didn't. Unfortunately because the vast majority of scientists make inaccurate judgements and conclusions, most people think all scientists are like that. We're not. If you want an example of an inaccurate and invalid scientific statement/conclusion/judgement, them labeling any one thing extinct is simply WRONG. How would they know that the organism is extinct? Recently in Australia, an "extinct" shark species attacked a swimmer. Now do you see how unreliable scientific theories can be? I can give you many other examples if you need them. [/quote] Sure, scientists are humans and they make mistakes. We are all human and pretty stupid. Probably in one-thousand years, people will look back and think that our theory of evolution was primitive. But this is also true of the Bible. They will laugh to think we believed in such myths. Humans are constantly changing their ideas about things and, therefore, our "truths" change as well. I just believe scientists come up with the best ideas about our origins. Religions are old. Christianity is so similar to other older Egyptian mythology that you can't tell the difference. But scientists are attempting to find truth. They are not stuck back in the stone age. Read the Bible like you would read any other book. If I handed you a book and if that book told you that donkeys could talk, and that an angry God tortured people forever, or that a wall fell down just because some people blew on some horns, etc., would you HONESTLY believe it? No, you wouldn't. You would see it as a fairy tale. But if these same unbelievable stories are written about in the old book called the Bible, you believe them with no question. WHy is this? [/quote] Do you believe that some people have more intel than other people? [/quote] Is that a loaded question? I HOPE you are not implying that creationists are more intelligent than people who believe in evolution? IF you are, that is just laughable. Go talk to a scientist and try to understand evolution. And then go listen to some backwoods preacher who tells you that the only thing you need to do is BELIEVE and you will go to some eternal paradise. Which story is more believable? A better question is which story do YOU want to believe because this is important. And this has nothing to do with intelligence. You WANT to believe the Jesus story because you think you will go to some eternal paradise where you will see your dead friends and relatives and live in a mansion, blah, blah, blah. That is NOT an intelligent decision. You should always base your decisions on truth and truth does not require your approval. [/quote]
Original Message
I mean he did all this petty, jealous and vengeful stuff in the old testament.. then to top it off sent his/her/its son to be killed by us.
That is not the type of god i want to pray to. Perhaps the snake in the garden was the good guy, trying to warn us about this sick fuck.
Im conflicted because the story of Jesus' life and his death is gut wrenching, i love that guy.
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