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So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Gregor Samsa:MV8yMTA0NzE4XzM1NTQwNzUzXzdBQjA3Mjc3] [quote:insertfunnyusername:MV8yMTA0NzE4XzM1NTI2NzA0XzMzODhCOUVE] [quote:Gregor Samsa:MV8yMTA0NzE4XzM1NTE0MDk1XzdEQUI5NkVD] I forgot to add, after the clashes began many Greek Cypriots died also, according to wiki : "Between 21Ė31 December 1963 up to 133 Turkish Cypriots were killed by Greek Cypriots.364 Turkish Cypriots and 174 Greek Cypriots were killed in the next years. 18667 Turkish Cypriots from 103 different villages abandoned their homes" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_%281963%29 [/quote] Off course Greek Cypriots were killed too man, the correct historical term for the pre-invasion events in Cyprus is "inter-communal or sectarian violence/conflict" and off course not the propagandistic Turkish govt line of 'genocide' or attempted genocide since both sides were involved in atrocities against each other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_intercommunal_violence I completely oppose and fully condemn the murder of 500 people but genocide? For realz? No offense bro but i wouldn't trust fascist Turkish govt to tell me what time is it, not to advocate the definition of the term genocide with .gov link. :tounge: And that's without counting Turkey's true genocidal past that propagandistic govt line says that "nope, no genocide of 4+ million christians took place here lads, in fact it was Armenian gangs that killed millions of Turks" lol, and this is the propaganda that the average brainwashed ignorant in Turkey still patriotically defends. Not that they weren't indeed Armenian gangs during Turkish war of independence but gimme a break. :) Dunno what the Turkish state tried or is trying to paint this to their citizens when at the end of the 20-year atrocities far more G/C's are still missing or have been killed than T/C's and Turks. 2000-3000 is only the number of still missing persons of all ages that were executed in mass and buried in mass graves all over the island and mainland Anatolia and Turkey still doesn't open the records to give their families a closure on this issue. Even the G/C's refugees are 10 times the number of T/C's, how can you guys claim anything close to genocide here is really beyond me. And it's true that the are more illegal mainland Turks than T/C's in the island, that was the plan all along since the 50's, sorry but i won't accept pseudo-state census, many T/C's don't like this abomination either, they're more of them in Britain than in Cyprus, more and more of them are discovering the real events and protesting against them. And that .gov link still isn't a proper answer to why Turkey is still the only country in the world that doesn't recognize Cyprus as a state and threatens war every other full-moon when there isn't really any threat for the community there anymore since Cyprus is in the EU now and wouldn't go full murdering retard now would it? Turkish state achieved the apartheid that so desperately wanted i honestly can't see how more war threats against an EU sovereign state can help the situation here and then Turkey bitching about not being an EU member at the same time. Is turkish govt playing a joke on the whole planet here or what? :blink: My point is that big parts of the truth regarding the real events in Cyprus came or still coming to the surface here in Greece and Cyprus, i don't expect the same thing to happen in Turkey anytime soon coz as Anatolian said they've invested too much on the pseudo-state and also because the press is totally govt controlled there, in fact Turkey ranks in the 140th position between 179 countries regarding press freedom and i'm not joking here, look it up. But i'd expect from some Turks to look for the hidden from them side of this story besides the one given to them by their govt, it's not like that they haven't lied and massively deceived you in the past now is it? No one here in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakes and most of them now can see how both communities have been played into this, can't see the reason why the average Turk who want this to end peacefully still has to defend their govt line, actions and an illegal imperialistic occupation. :( Britain controlled and still can control the whole ME with their presence in Cyprus, they offered the island to Greece during ww1 for Greece to side with the allies but the then Greek king declined coz he didn't want war, which was a retarded thing to do in hindsight since at the end Greece was dragged in ww1 anyways. British colonial rule was oppressive with riots against them since the 30's, 8800 documents from 37 former colonies were recently declassified and reveal that G/C and EOKA members that at that time were targeting only the British colonial authorities, were killed and tortured in British camps, in fact at least 12 G/C have taken Britain to court for these actions this year. CIA documents just revealed this year here in Greece show how they decided to put Karamanlis as a PM in 1955 under the condition to promote their agenda in the Cypriot issue, the only thing that Karamanlis asked in return was that whatever was about to be done at least should be done with "honor" and that he wouldn't been painted out as traitor by history. Britain saw that she couldn't handle the rebellion against their rule and decided to bring Turkey in the game by conscripting T/C's in their colonial police force. That was a key and completely retarded development because as a result one T/C colonial police officer was killed in an incident that led to anti-Greek riots and murders of G/c's. During the 1955-59 period more G/C's than T/C's have been killed in the island (approx 300 vs 100) and this is the start of the sectarian violence and not the 1963 one, but we don't claim some kind of genocide or attempted one for this now do we? In 1967 CIA installed a military junta in Greece and then the thing got really out of hand, when the generals didn't agree with the cia Cyprus agenda they imposed another coup within the coup in 1974 and installed the puppets that were willing to dispose Makarios from Cypriot power, an event that led to the 2 invasions of the island by Turkish armed forces vs a national guard force in what historians describe as the most unequal and unfair battle in modern history, it was a plain fucking massacre. You guys always talk about EOKA terrorism and all but conveniently opt to leave the role of TMT paramilitaries out, which was the exact same friggin thing as EOKA. The number of false flags after 1958 to initiate this sectarian conflict is unbelievable and i'm sure we've only learned a fraction of them. Denktas himself admitted on British TV that in 1958 he bombed his own consulate and his own office in 1962 and he even made statements that T/C's killings by British forces in a 1958 riot are useful for the Turkish agenda. The controversial killings of two lawyers in 1962 were done too by TMT. Two mosques were targeted by Turkish forces in 1962 and the same mosques were torched/bombed again by Turks in 1963. The mistake of G/C's is falling for these false flags (that were revealed as such years after the invasion) and they then started targeting T/C's. Even the bathtub murders which was and still is the most promoted incident of the Turkish intl propaganda on the matter is suspect to say the least and it's not me who says all these things i just told ya but T/C's journalists, Denktas and Turkish generals themselves. http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/2007/07-02-28.tcpr.html#07 http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/1999/99-06-04.tcpr.html#02 http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/2008/08-08-22.tcpr.html#09 http://www.cyprusedirectory.com/articleview.aspx?ID=20914 Greek side started to respond with FF's against the T/C's too after 63-64 that further flamed the conflict but you're on your own game here man, the number one and most used tool in the Turkish diplomacy and foreign policy is the false flags. They've taken this term to a new whole level with a proven track of FF events and state-sponsored terrorism even on their own people. Istanbul 1955 pogrom FF, Mavi Marmara FF, Alevi massacre in Maras 1978 FF, more FF's have taken place to target Alevi's and Kurds in Turkey. Just this year in a matter of 6 months the lunatics tried to pull 3 FF events in Syria killing Turkish citizens and kids in the process, someone would think that is Syria who is attacking Turkey going by your govt and MSM line and not the other way around, it's no surprise that Turkey is making genocidal claims in the Syrian situation too, while funding/training the people that commit the genocide and further flame the sectarian conflict in the first place, same shite different day if you ask me. If someone ever decided to make a thread with the Turkish FF's throughout history i bet it would be pages long, Turkish fascist para-state is so deep that has gone full retard with these things since the 20's, the criminal record is unbelievable, they always playing the dirty way of the game man, it's just not fair. :tounge: Now please read these letters to UN and other officials during the critical time of 1964-68, by this T/C leader and what he says about the role of Turkish forces on the island and how they further promoted the division in the island by not allowing the T/C's to trade with G/C's, how they were forcing the T'C's into enclaves, how they were intimidating, terrorizing and threatening them, and how the enemy according to him wasn't really the G/C's but the Turkish state itself with it's agents. They're not too big, read them for a different pow other than the govt one. http://ihsanali.org/Default.aspx?_Page=374 I'm not saying all these to put the blame on someone else's hands, Greeks made many fatal and painfully regrettable mistakes on this but we'll only take our fair share of the blame and not the Turkish share too, the fairy-tale presented by the Turkish state that presents Turkey as the saint and a savior to justify the illegal and globally condemned occupation of the island is just half the truth man, in my view the Brits successfully achieved to make this a Greece vs Turkey thingy instead of a brutal colonialism one by provoking both sides into atrocities and selling them weapons at the same time, nothing new about this either. As i said the Greek side has already admitted their mistakes and the Greek state left Cyprus enormous space to do their own thing and become an independent sovereign and EU state, it would be great if Turkish state would quit the typical brainwashing BS and do the same and stop promoting fear in the T/C's and in an already heavily tortured island just so it will be able to keep the drug-lord mafia protectorate running, just let the people of the island be free and the right for self-determination, before the 50's the 2 communities didn't have any problem whatsoever with each other. You can bet that this won't happen if you guys still see that you have a reason for the troops to be there and claiming some kind of threat/danger and attempted genocide instead of the real reason for this which is the fucking resources, why fascist Turkish state should have a claim in the resources of the island just because there is a Turkish minority there? It's retarded and doesn't make any sense. This isn't that hard to resolve ffs, Turkey needs to leave the 2 communities alone to decide their own future and stop being the typical Med terrorist-pimp. Why should the G/C's bend over to the illegal Turkish threats and claims, what worse could really happen to them after all these shit they've been through tbh and how can the minority decide for the majority and still bitching about resources and all. There's no justification for these things bro, Turkey is alone against the whole planet on this and this should be telling you something especially when Turkey keeps complaining about Palestine and all. You guys seriously need to look this from another perspective too as we did if you want this to ever end, can't see how Turkey still thinks that she can come on top of this vs the whole fucking planet. Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all. Take care. :cheers: [/quote] Wow, mate first of all i sincerely thank you for the long reply and the effort, i really appreciate it. Secondly i agree with many things you state, but not with everything, especially in details, and details mean sometimes a lot. One thing i noticed is you claim that the Turkish state is full of propaganda and almost everyone in Turkey buy this (which i agree btw.) whereas Greek state tells the truth to their citizens and theyíre free of propaganda. You say ďNo one in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakesĒ Really, i mean really ? Most people here does not have the perception that no one in Greece support EOKA ideology anymore and maybe feel the opposite. You see, propaganda works in both ways. Bro, i know you are not an unaware person of the corruptions globally and lies, propaganda spread by TPTB through all politicians and governments, but i sense a little subjectivity and black&white thinking here. Please note that i dont emphasize this to justify the actions and lies of the Turkish state. Another thing is you give the arguments of the internationally recognitions, non-recognitions as an indicator rightfulness, which i donít disagree completely, but again this is totally ignoring the corruption, deceptiveness and hypocrisy of the internationally politics and relationships. You must know all these issues are used as trump cards in internationally corrupted politics, do you really think that any politicians or people in high places care about the Armenian, Turkish, Greek etc. victims of the past or present ? So donít be surprised if US sells (to Turkey) the recognition of Northern Cyprus in exchange for being an ally and giving military support in a possible war with Iran in a few years (i am just giving as an example not claiming that this will happen). I mean you and me, and perhaps many other people on GLP know but i donít think everyone knows the importance of the island for the international politics. Itís a bigger issue than some controversy between Greek and Turkey and the rights of the 1.2 million living there. Itís a very strategic base located in one of the geopolitically most important regions of Mediterranean and ME. Itís called a giant aircraft carrirer. So itís not surprising that all the big players have interests on the situation, openly or behind the curtains. But since you put forward the opinion and support of the international committee and politics as an argument and an indicator of rightfulness, so what about the Kofi Annan Plan. Itís UNís plan man (and EU supported it too), for a united Cyprus and the Turkish military would leave the island for good. After years of negotiation and revisions, the result of the referendum is Greek Cypriots rejected the plan by 76%, while 65% of the Turkish Cypriots accepted it. Yeah i know itís a referendum, democratic choice of people, bu t i donít think the claim that G/C Ďs want peace while T/Cís does not is fully objective. Btw, i also think that if Cyprus wasnít a part of EU at that time the acceptance percentage of G/Cís would be higher. [quote:insertfunnyusername:MV8yMTA0NzE4XzM1NTI2NzA0XzMzODhCOUVE] Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all. [/quote] I know mate, same here. If it was up to you and me (or people like us) we could solve the problem in one day. Take care. :hf::cheers: Ps : I have just one thing to say to the coward who gave me a red karma insulting the Turks, naming them dogs, instead of participating in the discussion here. Not that i care about the red karma or any opinion of a racist douchebag, but as you may have also noticed, we, a Greek and a Turk (my friend insertfunnyusername and i ) are sharing our opinions , in a civilized and friendly manner, here. Being a racist sociopath, I donít expect you to understand this friendly manner at all, but i would rather be a dog than a pussy like you.:flipoff: [/quote]
Greek govt government seems to have decided to submit coordinates for the outer limits of the Greek continental shelf to the United Nations in the first months of 2013. On June 9th 1995, the Turkish parliament officially declared that unilateral action by Greece would constitute a casus belli.
link to translate.google.gr
link to www.tovima.gr
Davutoglu Warns Greece Against Oil exploration In The Aegean
link to www.trtarabic.com
Turkey closely following any Greek maneuver in Aegean disputes
link to www.todayszaman.com
16 islands snatched by Greece due to Turkey's negligence, experts claim. In the Aegean and the Mediterranean, there are 152 islands and islets of which the ownership is controversial
link to www.todayszaman.com
Norwegian company PGS is already conducting offshore seismic tests in Greek seas. License round is expected to take place in 2014.
link to www.pgs.com
More about the Aegean dispute
link to en.wikipedia.org
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