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Why God must exist
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 8685274:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1Nzk0MDk2X0VGMTVGODM2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33120536:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzOTc5XzczMkZDQjFG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 8685274:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzOTQyX0NGRDA0MTU0] [quote:Amilius:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzNzQ4XzI1OUI4NTQw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 8685274:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzNTQ1XzU4QUUyRDkz] [quote:Amilius:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzNTE4XzVCNjhBNTZC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33102584:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzNTEzX0NDQkE3Q0Uz] [quote:Amilius:MV8yMTIxNTQyXzM1NzkzMjI4Xzc1MEFFMDJE] My answer is since God is the first cause GOD HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. The universe, though, came to exist. How is not known by modern science. [/quote] But how do you know what God is or what he represents? God could be a super advanced computer or a machine of sorts. It's us humans who try to make him/it human for a lack of understanding... [/quote] All I KNOW is that God is the first cause. [/quote] You do know that you are deviating away from your original argument, right? We could discuss the first cause argument if you'd like, but we should stay on topic and get through this one first. I'd like to see the light bulb switch on in your head. [/quote] First cause should also be omnipotent as it could create universes. Something incorporeal, unmoved and omnipotent. That seems like God to me. [/quote] So, are we just going to ignore how your original argument was ripped to shreds? Then, when this one gets ripped to shreds, you'll just go on to some other argument? No thanks. [/quote] You ripped nothing to shreds, liar. [/quote] It was a dare, of sorts. The OP seems to lack motivation to answer my question. I would like to see anyone answer it, actually. You maybe? If you don't have to explain how god came to exist on the basis that he is not subject to time, on what grounds can you assume the universe itself is subject to time, and therefore needs an explanation as to how it came to exist? [/quote]
The fine tuning argument says there must have been a god. It was said that if the universe has had a change by 1 in 10^100 the universe wouldn't exist or would not be habitable for life. Roger Penrose who is a British mathematician said the chance of our universe to be coming to exist and being able to have life is 1 in 10^10^123. So in order for the universe to exist and be so finely tuned there must have been an incorporeal first cause that is omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent and omnipotent. Those are the characteristics of a god.
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