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REPLY TO THREAD
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How can atheists not see the obvious presence of god?
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Original Message
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I have come to realize that this is the most popular question posed by believers. It was this way 10 years ago when I started debating and it's the same today.
The argument is basically this: I observe X, I have no explanation for X, therefore god exists. It comes in many forms. Some prefer the apparent "fine-tuning" of the universe. Some prefer the beauty or complexity of the world around us. How could it come from nothing out of chance?
So, an average individual would then assume that someone made the universe...end of discussion. However, if believers could fathom the following concept, you will make years of progress in philosophy in just one essay.
We have a complex universe whose origins cannot be explained. If you were to imagine a god coming from nothing, it would further complicate the problem. So, many people prefer to think of god as existing "outside" of time, as it were, and thus not subject to an explanation of origin since god always existed. So, pointing to the apparent linear nature of the universe (big bang) seems to indicate that it needs a "mover" or creator to set it in motion. I would like to propose that the universe may not be linear and that "time" is a product of the universe. Essentially, I am stating that the universe is also "outside" of time, and thus not subject to the need for an explanation of its origins. This can be achieved by the big bang/big crunch hypothesis, or thinking of the observable universe as a subset of the whole, rather than the entire universe. What we see may merely be a bubble inside a greater existence, where time exists only in that bubble. As far fetched as this seems, it is on par with picturing a creator without origins.
Now, you may notice that this actually simplifies the problem of explaining the origins of existence in general because instead of a super-being always existing, now all you have is existence itself always existing. I prefer this argument because as crazy as it sounds, it sounds LESS crazy than a super-being always existing and then creating the universe. Of course I am not saying that I know for certain this is the case, but for individuals willing to accept a creator outside of time, it appears that you should have no reason to dismiss the universe being outside of time.
Please, trolls and low-IQ individuals, refrain from deviating from this argument, like bringing up evolution or talking about the moon and global warming. There are other threads for that. We know you fools do this-because you can't grasp this concept.
Discuss!
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