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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMDc0XzUwODJBQTM5] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMDAzXzgxQTdBOTVE] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwOTYyXzE3OTc2MkE3] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwODY0X0ZGMzZBREE1] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNzc1XzlBNzZFQjRG] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNzQyXzJGM0YyRDJG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNTI4XzlBMzRCN0Q5] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMzgxXzFEOEE5QjQ1] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMjEyXzU0ODMxQjgx] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMDgzX0YxQzI0NDMw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMDIyXzdDMkE5QzJD] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5OTU0X0VGNzFBMTBC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5ODgzX0M1NzkyMEQy] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5NzczXzQ5QkQ3QjIw] You mean you're willing to criticize my beliefs and then not discuss yours? That's strange and also unusual for you to engage me and openly put me down for all my spiritual failings than fail to discuss yours! :SmileyWink: Come come, don't be such a coward. Let's talk about your beliefs too. We should talk about Thich Nhat Hanh then, for it is undeniable that he's both a brilliant man as well as a devout spiritual man. Regardless even that system recognizes some sense of spiritual attainment in which people evolve into a bodhisattva or higher. So you're denying the existence of God per se. Some Christians. My gosh there are a billion of us. You're making a really huge dishonest stereotype.[b] I don't know any two that are the same,[/b] not many but the extreme sort of fundamentalists who spend a ton of time on Satan's presence. The problem with only love is that it isn't defineable and is so loose as to be almost meaningless. It's a bland idea discussing universal love, and unattainable. It's like saying, "See if everyone would just love each other, then everything would be perfect...." which is admirable and noble and hopelessly naive too. [/quote] It might have been a good idea to leave that line out. Talk about meaningless drivel. You are ALL exactly the same. Not a shred of difference. I can pick a "Christian" out in two seconds flat, and it isn't because they are so spiritual and good either. Some of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard come from the mouths of most Christians. I should know, I was a devout Christian for 25 years and left because you people are ALL, yes every single one of you, the same. The endless contradictions and hypocrisy were two other reasons. That book and subsequent religion is full of SHIT! [/quote] [b]Well that's just your subjective opinion, isn't it?[/b] You don't offer any intellectual discourse whatsoever. It's very lazy writing. Why not write instead about what YOU think, rather than resort to puerile slander like "That book and subsequent religion is full of SHIT!"? That's not how rational people talk, but how fundamentalists talk. So you've simply exchanged your probably once balanced spirituality for some dogmatic kneejerk response. How is that better? To say that all one billion people are the same is quite frankly moronic. [/quote] No, no it's not. It comes from 25 YEARS of research and asking questions. You, on the other hand, haven't looked outside of your box for your entire life. [/quote] [b]You're not willing to debate[/b] me and take the chance of being persuaded or even trying to understand one other person who is engaging you. That's sad. You see the opposite is true on my side, because unlike you I am interested in what you think. You devalue others who don't agree with you. That shows a real lack of character. [/quote] Because you can't debate without facts, it's impossible, just like OP said. I don't need persuasion, I've been there, 25 years, can you read? You are an especially annoying Christian. [/quote] [b]I'm annoying because you're lack debate skills and are intellectually not my equal![/b] Nah nah na nah nah! :neener2: [/quote] Now THAT is a double fail. Trying to insult someones intellect while totally failing in grammar AND spelling. Priceless! [/quote] HAHAHA! Touché. Quite right! I totally buggered that up! ROFL! I've been up for 24+ hours. I did totally fail, but obviously I was joking! [/quote] I certainly hope so. We are in no way, shape or form, intellectually equal. I surpassed you a loooong time ago. [/quote] Actually no. You haven't refuted anything I've said so far. I'd like to see you demolish St. Anselm's ontological proof. That would be something. Trying to prove the absence of Supreme Being would be extremely difficult. I doubt your intellectually superior mind could do it. I encourage you to try. So far you've largely used sterotypes, and your laughable form of debate would get you laughed out of a survey course of Philosophy. It's interesting behavior because for the most part, I think I'm the only person who has praised rational atheists in this thread, not because I agree with them, but because I respect anyone willing to take the time to formulate their beliefs. On the other hand, your idea of debate is based upon pejoratives. [/quote] See how Christians debate? They think they know everything and attempt to portray me as an atheist because no other ideas will come to your tiny little brain as to how you can paint me into your little box. It's not working either. You're right, I'm not going to debate you, I will only use logic and reason because to debate, AGAIN, you have to have FACTS. Something Christians severely lack. Are you getting it yet? [/quote] Have you used one fact yet? I'm waiting for one. [/quote] Ive brought lots of facts. 1. You can't debate anything without evidence and facts. 2. Christians don't have any facts. 3. We are not intellectual equals. Shall I go on? I have more. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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