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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 24392638:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMjIxXzVFMUI3RTlE] [quote:Adventus Domini:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNDc4X0U2ODEyOUFC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 24392638:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5OTg5XzI0NkVBM0ZC] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE4OTk0X0ZCNzg4OTYy] [quote:Anonymous Coward 24392638:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE4NTY4XzdDNEMyMEUy] Your Christian religion has also led you down erroneous religious paths. Jesus did not start the Christian religion; his followers did many years after the fact. Jesus cannot save you; you must save yourself, and you do that according to how you live your life. Jesus did not die for your sins; your sins are your own, not his. He died to show you that there is no death; that is what Lazarus and the resurrection is all about. But your religion does not want you to know that because then they would have no power over you. As it is now, the church holds you in life-long fear that you will rot in hell if you don't obey the church's commands. The CHURCH'S commands, not God's commands. The church commands you by putting words in God's mouth. Is that the kind of bogus faith you want? [/quote] Jesus did begin a religious movement which began as soon as he begin preaching. We know that from the disciples who He immediately attracted. What you're discussing is the state religion of Constantine which I admit happened far later. Prior is was a tiny movement. Jesus by definition by dying on the Cross was done to redeem the whole world. He said it many times. That is the basis for Christianity, and if He didn't come back three days later and ressurected then it wouldn't be a religion. You don't understand much about Christian belief, do you? If you're proposing your own belief system, then instead you should explain that carefully, not interweave Jesus within your idea. You should expand upon this self-saving, for what you say is not clear. Are you a Gnostic, because it sounds like it? [/quote] Tell me where Jesus said he was going to redeem the world from the cross... [/quote] Here -- one where he clearly points back to the prophecies of the Old Testament. There are more. [u]Luke 24:44-48[/u] He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. [/quote] So you're going to believe the words written 50-100 years after the fact that Jesus said this or that? More like someone put those words in his mouth. Actually, Jesus "supposedly" said only these things from the cross: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." (to one of the criminals) "Truly I say to you, you will be with me in paradise." (to his mother) "Woman, this is your son." (to the disciple) "This is your mother." (John 19:26-27) "My God, why have you forsaken me?" "I thirst." "It is finished." (He dies) [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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