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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxNDI5XzU0NEQ4QTFE] [quote:Anonymous Coward 17551129:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMjIyX0M3MTIyRjI3] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMDgyXzNFNzkxM0Mz] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxMDA1XzY4QzQwQzY4] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwOTExX0MxREZBNURB] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwODczXzc4NDkwOTQ3] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNzc3Xzc0Nzg4QTYz] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwNDc5XzkxODYxOTNE] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMzYxXzgzMDlCNkNC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMTYyXzE5ODQzMzFG] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIwMDI5X0VCRjg0NUE0] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5OTgzX0M0QkI0QUU1] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5OTU0X0VGNzFBMTBC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33674751:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5ODgzX0M1NzkyMEQy] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5NzczXzQ5QkQ3QjIw] You mean you're willing to criticize my beliefs and then not discuss yours? That's strange and also unusual for you to engage me and openly put me down for all my spiritual failings than fail to discuss yours! :SmileyWink: Come come, don't be such a coward. Let's talk about your beliefs too. We should talk about Thich Nhat Hanh then, for it is undeniable that he's both a brilliant man as well as a devout spiritual man. Regardless even that system recognizes some sense of spiritual attainment in which people evolve into a bodhisattva or higher. So you're denying the existence of God per se. Some Christians. My gosh there are a billion of us. You're making a really huge dishonest stereotype.[b] I don't know any two that are the same,[/b] not many but the extreme sort of fundamentalists who spend a ton of time on Satan's presence. The problem with only love is that it isn't defineable and is so loose as to be almost meaningless. It's a bland idea discussing universal love, and unattainable. It's like saying, "See if everyone would just love each other, then everything would be perfect...." which is admirable and noble and hopelessly naive too. [/quote] It might have been a good idea to leave that line out. Talk about meaningless drivel. You are ALL exactly the same. Not a shred of difference. I can pick a "Christian" out in two seconds flat, and it isn't because they are so spiritual and good either. Some of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard come from the mouths of most Christians. I should know, I was a devout Christian for 25 years and left because you people are ALL, yes every single one of you, the same. The endless contradictions and hypocrisy were two other reasons. That book and subsequent religion is full of SHIT! [/quote] Well that's just your subjective opinion, isn't it? You don't offer any intellectual discourse whatsoever. It's very lazy writing. Why not write instead about what YOU think, rather than resort to puerile slander like "That book and subsequent religion is full of SHIT!"? That's not how rational people talk, but how fundamentalists talk. So you've simply exchanged your probably once balanced spirituality for some domgmaitic kneejerk response. How is that better? [/quote] Funny how you picked that one line out amongst everything that was said in that post. You're a Christian, aren't you? See how easy that was? See ya. :hi: [/quote] Note unlike you I didn't say something equally perverse. It's not the mark of an intelligent person, [b]only a jerk. [/b]It's pathetic, and not the way to debate, but rather the actions of a spoiled child. [/quote] Or, well studied in "Christianity". Name calling, how Christian-like. See? You're all the same. Hypocrites, every one of ya. [/quote] HA! I scoff at your remark. Calling you a jerk is so tame and mild versus saying that Christianity and the Bible are full of SHIT! Come now, that's no comparison! Are you saying it's fine to call a billion people, their religion, and their beliefs, and their sacred text full of excrement? You're absurd and too sensitive....and a JERK of the 1st magnitude! [/quote] I'm the sensitive one? :lmao: Mirrors suck, eh? [/quote] Hahahahah I'm laughing at you. [b]The comparison of a billion souls covered in excrement because you're a sad little man and unhappy with Christians it too much. You got upset with being called a jerk. Talk about oversensitive![/b] :rofl: [/quote] That doesn't sound like the words of someone who is having a good time to me. No, those are the words of butthurt. [/quote] See that precisely what I mentioned. It's the sign of a total lack of decorum. If I use baby words like butthurt x 3, do I win? Huh huh? Pathetic loser. Be the intellectual you claim to be, if you dare. [b]I am totally mocking you and laughing. [/b]Not because you are brilliant, but because you're so weak. [/quote] I've already won. [/quote] That's the sad part. I've discussed multiple angles to having a dialogue with a rational person about their belief system, followed that from a Christian perspective to other Christians on why quoting the Bible won't persuade any nonbelievers. Discussed how they might better witness effectively. Then discussed a real philosophical proof of God, one that NO ONE has yet bothered to analyze or rebut. [b]Followed a second famous proof on the status of Jesus Christ, which no one has bothered to rebut either[/b]. The only thing you have "butted in" about is excrement and pejoratives....which is extremely low class. [/quote] See bolded... I am sorry if I missed it... I am interested in seeing this proof... [/quote] It's the famous one by CS Lewis: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2126793/pg6#35916555 [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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