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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:AgnosticDeity:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTI1Nzg2X0IzMzk1NjA4] [quote:Gamberro 27181088:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTI1NTkyX0FFQ0I3NzNF] [quote:AgnosticDeity:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTI1MTczXzQwNDZDMkZB] [quote:Anonymous Coward 27181088:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTI0NzIzXzgxMDAyRDY4] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIzNjE2XzQ2NTJEOEFB] [quote:Anonymous Coward 4294679:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIzNTUyXzI3MTU2N0VF] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxOTUxXzFEMEYwN0JC] [quote:Anonymous Coward 4294679:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTIxNzg2XzNDNUJDMTVG] Here are the [b]FACTS[/b] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaLaTMaKjdY[/youtube] [/quote] Are you going to interject what you feel is a fact within that video? Or are you too lazy to try to debate? [/quote] The entire video is the "facts" done professionally. Try watching with a logical mind. I don't need to say anything, all the evidense is in the video. [/quote] Extremely lame. I post all kinds of personal statements, historical proofs by theologians and philosophers, speak to the defense of atheists and agnostics, discuss building a common dialogue around reason and the dialectic, act as an apologist for God,etc. You made a post about two entertainer magicians.... HOO BOY Complete abject failure. [/quote] I'll double that FAIL flag. Good job having an original perspective from a TV show. [/quote] And the televangelists you guys are so fond of linking videos to, who also do their own research, and are [b]ENTERTAINERS[/b] in their own right are more valid how? I don't endorse Penn and Teller, but I have watched several episodes of their show Bullshit. While I don't always fall on their side of the argument, I must admit that they generally know what they are talking about when they open their mouths. [/quote] I just got finished watching the episode, not out of respect for the lazy ass that posted the video like it were an original retort, but out of respect for the fact that beforehand I was actually already WATCHING the same season of Penn & Teller. Kinda weird, huh? Well, the whole episode was an analysis of the Bible as factually accurate in a LITERAL sense, which I think you will find many people do not agree with. I consider the majority of the Old Book to be figurative language, as that was the common method of communicating in literature in the day. The atheist speaker wouldn't disagree with me on that, and it appears the apologist wouldn't for the most part, either. To argue against the factual nature of the Bible in a literal sense, PARTICULARLY the Old Book, doesn't shift this particular conversation one way or another-- a conversation which is mostly philosophical in nature. The Bible wasn't generally interpreted in that manner until the last few centuries, and the people that follow that philosophy, with all respect, do a disservice to Christianity by putting forth shaky and potentially disprovable arguments as if they were the foundations of their faith. As Penn might say, There are two creation stories for fuck's sake! Obviously there's more to it than just black and white. But once more, [/quote] Living in the deep south I find more and more that people take the bible literally, OT and NT. Maybe its just a southern baptist thing, couldn't say. But I do agree that they do their faith a disservice by spouting prose and allegory as fact. I'm completely open to the idea of a "higher power". What I am dead set against is the mindset that my god is better than your god and you'll burn in hell for it because I'm sending you there. FACT: There is no one true religion. FACT: When you condemn someone who believes in a religion that isn't yours you do a disservice to your own cause. FACT: Man will never be able to prove through any means the existence or non existence of "God". FACT: As long as there is religion men will kill one another in God's name. Your relationship with your deity of choice is a very personal, and good thing And please remember witnessing is one thing... Browbeating is another. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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