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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:simultaneous_final:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODk0MjAwXzkwNzgzRTBG] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33041105:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODk0MTI3XzNFNkM3Nzc3] Your quotes are the SIMPTOM of the disease: RELATIVISM and have a proof of the epic fail of your mistaken philosophycal system. we are here, now and the knowledge is not possible, but an evidence by itself... [b]U can ARGUE anything about to deny the existence of the reality outside you... [/b]but, the reality will continue his existence even if u disaprove it. Try to deny the existence of the reality and u will be on the funny house (sooner or latter!) [quote:simultaneous_final:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODk0MDcyXzMyQjMxRDhB] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33041105:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODkzOTQ5XzFDNEE5NEY3] Not... We are talking about RELATIVISM and EXISTENCIALISM all are relative to the being... the one that is supposed to be... and therefore, the reality is not true until it comes agknwledged as true by the being... so the reality is not a fact by itself... THIS is the MISTAKE... the reality is OUT THERE ***(1)*** (being or not being to acknowledge it) and even the BEING (a human) did not make itself...***(2)*** so, it comes from an EXTERNAL CAUSE...***(3)*** THE BEING CREATOR AND NOT CREATED BY ANYONE.***(4)*** GOD. [quote:simultaneous_final:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODkyODkyXzg3NDgzRTYw] You're thinking of solipsism. And while it is a philosophy which can never be verified or falsified (look it up), it is NOT what I'm saying. Solipsism goes so far as to ASSERT that the self IS all that exists. What I'm saying is that the self is all that can be KNOWN to exist. NOTHING leads to "knowledge" in the strictest sense of the word. "Knowledge", in the strict sense, of ANYTHING other than your moment-to-moment "self" is unattainable. If you can think of anything else that can be "known" (in the strict sense), then let's hear it. But remember, it only takes one exception to falsify it. [/quote] [/quote] (1) You can not prove this. Go ahead and try. (2) You are ASSUMING that you were "made". See also (4) (3) But you can't prove that anything IS "external" to you. Try. (4) You ASSUME that you were "made" but now you say that a certain being can have no maker. How do you know YOU'RE not that being? [/quote] [/quote] Indeed I can. This is why the existence of anything external can NOT be known. It seems we agree on something. I wonder if you were as insistant on the validity of the "external world" while you dreamed of wild and convoluted things which seemed normal at the time. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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