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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2NDY4XzlENTEzREU2] Now how to use philosophy to discuss God with a deeply logical atheist? Well St. Anselm's Ontological Argument is a very fine proof of God. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontological-arguments/#StAnsOntArg 8.2 Formulation 2 "The Fool understands the expression “the being than which no greater can be conceived”. (Premise) If a person understands an expression “b”, then b is in that person's understanding. (Premise) If a thing is in a person's understanding, then the person can conceive of that thing's existing in reality. (Premise) Each thing which exists in reality is greater than any thing which exists only in the understanding. (Premise) If a person can conceive of something, and that thing entails something else, then the person can also conceive of that other thing. (Premise) If a person can conceive that a specified object has a given property, then that person can conceive that something or other has that property. (Premise) Hence the being than which no greater can be conceived exists in reality. (From (1)-(6), by a complex series of steps here omitted.)" [b][color=green]It is hard to argue that this logical proof is not without merit. [/color][/b] [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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