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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:PENG:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2NTQyXzRFNzBEQzRE] [quote:simultaneous_final:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1ODkzOTQwXzY1OTYyQzUz] Yes, I would like to argue about it. That's incorrect. I, for example, BELIEVE in a god as much as I BELIEVE that you are a real human being and not a figment of my imagination. I can't KNOW either of those things (or much else). And neither can you. Or Richard Dawkins or Pat Robertson or the Pope or the Dhali Lama or ANYONE. By being intellectually honest, we find that we are ALL agnostics. Many won't admit that to themselves or anyone else. However, subconsciously they must realize it. This is one reason that people actively seek to validate their beliefs and disbeliefs. Also, (from wiki): [b]Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[/b] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. [b] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[/b] [/quote] I think that's pretty much it right there ^^^. Simple fact is Christians and the like don't know for an absolute fact, and scientists don't know for as absolute fact. Christians can use the bible and history as their proof of existence, then bank on faith, which is what I chose to do. Scientists can state that something comes fom nothing and it didn't take a God to create nothing, it just happened. I think the two have more in common then one would think. Scientists and Christians spend ther whole lives searching for the meaning of life, or existence. Each have their own reality. Scientists hold just as much evidence as Christians do. They can't prove there isn't a god. That's just silly. Christians can't prove there is, even with the evidence. It's not absolute. If there is a god, he isn't going to come down and have a cup of tea. Really, why would he? We've been here for thousands of years and what makes anyone think the end of the world is coming in our lifetime? The end of the world is the proof we are begging for as to the existence of god. So for Christians, the only way to proved god really exists is for god himself to make a visit, a REAL visit! And for scientists to prove there is no god, they need to find out where nothing comes from, find the begining, before nothing. Lol. They're even confused. For me personally, there's definety something beyond and I would say a God created the whole thing. I feel it in my soul. A deep seeded feeling that my brain doesn't comprehend. ;) Maybe because I need it to be so? Well, what difference does it make to anyone else? If its my own little fantasy, then so be it. I would much rather discuss it, than argue about it. I find great comfort believing that we exist after this life. I just don't know what that soul transforms into... Which freaks me out. I don't like thinking that this is the end. The children I love so much, to think there is an inevitable end one day to all of it, hurts my heart. I agree with OP And for me, there isn't one verse in the bible, nor one atom the universe that beyond a doubt proves the existence, or non existence of God. Guess we just keep praying for a physical visit and keep researching the "nothing". ;) :hf: [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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