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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
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[quote:PENG:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2NjkwXzE3OTY3RDc1] [quote:Anonymous Coward 33509091:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2MDUwX0JGQUU0RUNC] [b][color=blue]ROMANS 1 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.[/color] [color=red]20 FOR THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ARE CLEARLY SEEN, [/color] [color=blue]being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; [/color] [color=red]SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE[/color]: [color=blue]21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [/color] [color=red]22 PROFESSING THEMSELVES TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS[/color][/b] [/quote] I do understand where you are coming from here... There are so many strong worded passages in the bible, particularly pertaining to belief. The issue with non believers, and their arguments are valid to some point, and I think it's healthy and wise for Christians to not feel attacked, but to debate the issue. There was a great deal of politics during the times the bible was writing, passed down, rewritten. And one could argue that in order to keep a more lawful society, that these words were written for that purpose. It's like saying to a child today, if you steal, you're going to jail. Back then, the bible was the law book, not just a spiritual book. It was a way to create order in a chaotic society. Imagine if no one believed in god? God has a tremendous amount of power of those who believe. Personally, I think without a god belief, humans are not built to be kind, empathetic, peaceful people. It is this belief. "God" is what has instilled this into human beings. "Atheists" aren't an example of how humans can be civil, because even they are greatly influenced by the Christian society. Christians keep them in order. Lol. Kidding. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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