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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
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[quote:PENG:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE3MjQ4XzEzNTY0NEIz] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE3MTQyX0YxQzUxM0Y0] [quote:PENG:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2OTU0X0I3MTJCMTVE] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2ODI5Xzg3MjAzMTEw] Because of the Law of Free Will, God cannot come down and dwell among us. Not again at least, for God did come to do that as Jesus the Christ (probably named Yeshua or Yehoshua in the Hebrew). God came once to prove it all and offer a perfect sacrifice for the sins of the whole world and for all time: past, present, and future. It was sufficient. If God were to come down and dwell among us, then it break the Law of Free Will, for then seeing the miracle of God on a daily basis 24/7 then their is no belief by Faith only belief by objective observation. God desires to be believed by Faith, and possibly by derived Reason, but not by empirical evidence. Those who wait for the latter will wait until they take their last breath in all actuality, for seldom in history do miracles happen. And despite miracles happening on a daily basis, and your life is one of them, then people still don't believe. [/quote] Exactly! That's kinda my point, if god came for a visit, that would be it, the end. And "atheists" need that proof to believe. It will never happen. So to argue who is correct, is mute. There are no winners in this battle. Healthy discussion is great and I love to hear both sides, but at the end of the day I just can't reconcile that there is no God. I look outside for proof and its all around. I watch videos like these below, and its fascinating! I didn't say it was proof of god, but damn people it is something to think about! DBA, after watching the video you posted above, it reminded me of a couple videos I watched that were fantastic. They also mention DNA information, One DNA has enough information to stack library books from here to the moon! Crazy! Anyway, tell me if you have watched all of these. If you haven't, please do. Some are really long and in segments, but I watched everyone and wow! They are worth the watch. I saw them on Netflix. These are [b]the creatures of evolution.[/b] OMG. I hope people watch these videos. Very cool stuff. http://www.explorationfilms.com/exploration-films-incredible-creatures-3.html I love this one... Has quantum physicists, scientists, etc interviewed also. Fascinating! [b]The Case For Christ[/b] http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307 [/quote] Yes my friend, there are many wonderful videos, but usually it's not God that's the issue. It's that there's always an alternative explanation of Creation up to a point. Much of that is intellectually dishonest, for while brilliant scientists can discover incredible aspects to the nature of how we are made at the microscopic level, at some point you have to say, "Yes, but how did something like an eye evolve into being." One alternative theory is that all of Life from the simplests phospholipid bilayer which forms the first envelope of organic soup and the proto-life of viruses or prions are the natural laws of the Universe. That all life unfolds in an ordered way into complex species over time. It won't hold up, because logically DNA doesn't evolve in fast enough time even with Billions of years. We know from important studies on E coli that there isn't enough evolution going on even in 40 years of observing it with who knows how many generations of bacteria forming it hasn't evolved significantly. Personally, I don't see the big deal about evolution because who knows how a Supreme Being created Life. No one was there. Maybe God used some form of evolution. I don't get bent out of shape like some fundamentalists do. It's not a litmus test for being a Christian. The more I study science, philosophy, the humanities, and spirituality, the more I believe in God. [/quote] Are you making up with me? :-). :hf: Ok, so it would have been really awesome if you had said, "I love those videos!" Or "OMG, what a great find! Can't wait to watch them!" :chuckle: I like them soooo much, I thought of only you when I went to find them. :rose: Are you laughing yet? :tounge: my mission is to make you smile today! Honest. :) [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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