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Subject Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU

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[quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE3NzMyX0JBMDlGOTgx]
[quote:Anonymous Coward 25234912:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE3NTIzX0Q3OTEyQzM4]
God allowed me to meet Satan as I was backsliding, and let me just stay he is very real and very scary, he is something we need to take seriously.
[/quote]

Because I am Christian and because I am an educated person, I can perceive Evil. Much of that I believe is a Spirit of Falsehood. For me, Evil is the Personification of Falsehood that accuses Humanity. That being is Satan or Lucifer or the Great Red Dragon that is present and will bring about the End of the World as we know it.

Now all of that sounds like a myth to a nonbeliever, doesn't it? I bet if you're an atheist or an agnostic then you're laughing. That's OK, it's a start.

Can you also tell me, that despite not believing in God, that you cannot imagine Satan existing? I doubt it. I don't know any atheists who believe that Evil doesn't exist. They may argue that they don't. They may make claims that evil is merely a judgement based upon cultural norms. They give lip service to that until a crime if commited in their family or they come face to face with a great evil being. Then even those doubters believe in Evil.

If you believe in Evil, then why is it nonsensical to believe that Good and Evil cannot be incarnate as Spirits? If that is so, then this is the beginning of the long philosophical question of what that eternal battle means.

I'm no Zoroastrian who reduces God and Satan in such simple dualistic forms. I'm saying that in order to have a philosophical discussion, we must have a frame of reference that agrees that Good and Evil exist. Otherwise you end up with some sort of Daoist idea of Yin and Yang than sounds great on paper but doesn't explain genocide or say the horrific sexual torture in Bosnia and Serbia.
[/quote]

Original Message Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to

because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.

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