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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 24392638:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE4NTY4XzdDNEMyMEUy] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2MzM5XzkyNkVFRkIw] So, how the heck can one Christian convince a nonbeliever? It isn't by using the Bible. That's getting the cart before the horse. Many will listen then because we're doing what Jesus said to do. Jesus Saves...not us. We are frail beings and make mistakes. Jesus is undeniably kind hearted and good. Seldom will people say the opposite of Jesus. [/quote] Tell me, why does a Christian need to convince a nonbeliever? If you believe in your own faith, that it's right for you, that's all that should matter to you. But if you need to convince someone else of your faith, then that tells me that you aren't convinced of it yourself. And because you aren't convinced of it, you must use biblical verses in order to make your point. Your religion has forbade you think for yourself so you must let the bible do your thinking for you. You don't realize how weak your argument is because you are on the inside looking out. Buddhists do not go around trying to convince non-Buddhists to believe as they do. They know that their beliefs may not be right for someone else but they are right for them. Hindus do not try to convince others to do as they do. Hindus are concerned with their own enlightenment. Here's a wonderful description of enlightenment from Lynn Forrest: "Enlightenment is simply the falling away of untruths and darkness so that the inner light, that has been there all along, is revealed. It is a process of unveiling, rather than one of attainment." Your Christian religion has also led you down erroneous religious paths. Jesus did not start the Christian religion; his followers did many years after the fact. Jesus cannot save you; you must save yourself, and you do that according to how you live your life. Jesus did not die for your sins; your sins are your own, not his. He died to show you that there is no death; that is what Lazarus and the resurrection is all about. But your religion does not want you to know that because then they would have no power over you. As it is now, the church holds you in life-long fear that you will rot in hell if you don't obey the church's commands. The CHURCH'S commands, not God's commands. The church commands you by putting words in God's mouth. Is that the kind of bogus faith you want? And what about the bible? Is that really God's word or are they words of Rulers of the Day speaking for God? (The times may change but people never do.) The Old Testament God is a cruel and vicious God who demands obedience upon the threat of death. What kind of God creates humans and then punishes them for being human? Plus the true God knows there is no such thing as death; there's only a change in vibration levels from low to higher. It's time to start thinking about what you've been taught. If you've thought about it, weighed its pros and cons, investigated other religions, other philosophies, other ways of living, then you came to your decision on your own rather than being indoctrinated into your religion since birth. Now you won't feel the need to convince others of your faith because it is rock solid within you and it matters not what others believe. Now you can live your faith in peace and harmony, and you realize that if everyone lived their faith in peace and harmony, this world would be a heaven on earth. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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