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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 17551129:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5MjgwXzUxRTdGNEJF] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5MDYxX0JCRTczREM4] [quote:Anonymous Coward 24392638:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE4NTY4XzdDNEMyMEUy] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE2MzM5XzkyNkVFRkIw] So, how the heck can one Christian convince a nonbeliever? It isn't by using the Bible. That's getting the cart before the horse. Many will listen then because we're doing what Jesus said to do. Jesus Saves...not us. We are frail beings and make mistakes. Jesus is undeniably kind hearted and good. Seldom will people say the opposite of Jesus. [/quote] And what about the bible? Is that really God's word or are they words of Rulers of the Day speaking for God? (The times may change but people never do.) The Old Testament God is a cruel and vicious God who demands obedience upon the threat of death. What kind of God creates humans and then punishes them for being human? Plus the true God knows there is no such thing as death; there's only a change in vibration levels from low to higher. [/quote] The Bible is the most authenticated ancient texts. We have very old fragments in the thousands of copies and mostly they are the same with minor changes such as scribes notes in the margins. Have you taken a class on the Bible before from a perspective of archaelogy? I can assure you by comparison that say the works of Aristoltle number in a miniscule amount and yet not one doubts that he existed or wrote his works. Again you sound like a Gnostic who tries to say that the Old Testament god is a Demiurge. If you are a Gnostic then why won't you admit it openly? [/quote] Those who own the press, have the means for distribution, and the will to carry out long range plans, can, and have instilled this paradigm... Authenticated !!! By whom... Of course, I know your answer is scholars... As I said - any paradigm can be instilled over time, if you have the means for distribution... Until you have verified facts with your own observations, then everything is suspect... So-called educated, or authoritative figures are part of the system... They do not pass, get their degrees, and have a future until they pass the tests... Who designed the tests??? [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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