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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5NDk5XzM1QUQwMUU5] [quote:Anonymous Coward 10792566:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5Mzk3X0Q3NUEzQTZC] [quote:Don'tBeAfraid:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5Mjk1XzM4OTYzMTcw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 10792566:MV8yMTI2NzkzXzM1OTE5MTM1X0MwM0Y2N0Ez] Let me get this straight. So, the same people who argue that the mothods we currently use for dating are so inacurate they will believe none of it, because it disproved the bible as historical fact, now are using that same dating method to support their biblical artifact dates? I shouldn't have to point out the irony in your logic. [/quote] Explain what you mean please. Are you meaning carbon dating? I'm not one of those silly Christians who believes the Earth is 6000 years old. The vast majority of Christians don't believe that nonsense. There are some Christians who believe in such things, but I'm not one of them. Such methods are used to date the historical papyrus that we have and serious Bible scholars rely upon such methods. Only some recent fundamentalists say post 1960 or so would argue that carbon dating is not valid. Usually those folks are not scientists or have any scientific training whatsoever. [/quote] Yes, I was under the assumption that you were, in fact a creationist, making an argument for the correct dating of parchment, whilst denying wholly the use of any other dating models. I am agnostic, and happen to promote those having spiritual epiphanies. It's beautiful. I am, however, with the original poster in his sentiment that the argument here has no hope of being a mature affair, so it is actually quite pointless to keep the threads coming. Again, I should be resting, so I say good day sir. [/quote] Ah! Makes total sense. No, I'm not a creationist in the sense of believing in the 6000 year nonsensical antiscientific model. Who can know how long God took to make the Universe? The rational discovery of carbon 14 and the decay rate makes sense, but of course contaminiation will always cause issues. You know you and I could have a rational discussion and not argue but actually learn to find common ground, as can most intellectuals who are of any faith or absent a faith or an agnostic. I am glad you're at least an agnostic, for I bet you find enormous beauty in Nature and feel the call of God in some manifestation. There are deeply devout spiritual people, and when we encounter them, seldom are they dogmatic. Usually they are humble, considerate, and the first to be altruistic. That doesn't mean they are right, but at least they're not yelling as a means of insisting upon conversion. As long as people are rational, and intellectually honest, then all people could make life on Earth much better by the reduction of discord. In friendship we might even persuade each other of the veracity of spiritual systems (and the natural superiority of Christianity by Jesus Christ)! :SmileyWink: The only time it become silly is when nonintellectuals enter into a debate and then it's more like screaming children. [/quote]
Let's get right to it.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.
No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.
All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
How can I say all this with certainty?
BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.
No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.
Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
SO--is there a GOD?
My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.
That's why I believe in God.
But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.
So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
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