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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:J 34504191:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTYxNTM0XzYyQ0MzNjc=] [quote:Anonymous Coward 31297288:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTU0OTc0XzFCMjQ3NUU1] [quote:J 34311994:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTU0MDAwXzVDRDkxQ0I0] [quote:Anonymous Coward 31297288:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTUzODQ2XzQyMTIxNTg0] Since so much has been buried by the piles of smelly crap from one poster here is the link where you can find actual cases of those demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 are winning cases, avoiding cases altogether AND getting full refunds of withheld income tax: http://savingtosuitorsclub.net/content.php [/quote] There are several people there with full refunds in the forums. There is no way anyone could have gone there and actually searched and not find them. Sanitized returns and checks, all from redeeming lawful money per 12-USC 411. I take your silence on being from Southern Poverty as acceptance of my claim you are a paid shill for them. I take your lie that NOTEs pay debt as more proof you are a liar when it suites you. I take your non-answer on who owns the FRNS you have in your pocket as proof they are not your property. I take your lack of addressing the fact I have addressed Rickman and Ware (Ware had shit to do with FRNS, it was United States Notes) that you are simply posting to read your own posts and then claim nobody has called you a lair, pointed out your folly and misrepresentation of cases AND your utter ignorance of the nature and meaning of 12-USC 411, redemption and freedom. In short, you are nasty, brain washed and abrasive idiot. Other than bumping this thread, you are pretty much good for nothing but shilling for the SPLC. [/quote] [color=darkblue][i]There are several people there with full refunds in the forums.[/i][/color] Who and with what evidence. Name them. And show us the evidence. I didn't see either. Educate us. [i][color=darkblue]There is no way anyone could have gone there and actually searched and not find them.[/color][/i] Then it will be remarkably easy for you to name them and back their claims with evidence. Please do so now. [i][color=darkblue]I take your silence on being from Southern Poverty as acceptance of my claim you are a paid shill for them.[/color][/i] In this thread alone, I've been called a paid shill, a government agent, a member of the illuminati, a 'Jew' (I think, they altered the spelling a little), an IRS agent, a member of the illuminati, an elite, a plant, a domestic terrorist, a communist, a socialist and more silly names than I can shake a stick at. You 'sovereign citizen' types just love your labels. After a while, it all just blends together as useless noise. You have as much evidence for your claim as those poor, hapless idiots before you did for theirs: Namely, nothing. But again, you accept your own imagination as irrefutable evidence of whatever you wish to invent. .....if only reality worked that way. Now...answer my question: since FRNs are lawful money, why would 'demanding redemption' for lawful money magically make you immune to paying taxes? Especially given that the courts have already found that no one is entitled to 'redeem' FRNs for precious metals? Your argument doesn't make the slightest sense. And of course, is backed by zero evidence. But then most of the confused, awkward idiocy on this thread suffers from the same deficits. [color=darkblue][i]AND your utter ignorance of the nature and meaning of 12-USC 411, redemption and freedom.[/i][/color] More accurately, I don't accept your latest inane conspiracy babble as anything more than inane conspiracy babble. With FRN's legally recognized as lawful money, your claims are not only factually baseless but completely unnecessary. No where in Title 12 does it say that demanding your FRNs be 'redeemed for lawful money' makes you immune from taxation. That's you citing yourself as Title 12. Which is more than a little silly. Worse, no court has ever recognized the claim as valid. No law either. Its just you...saying it must be so. And you're nobody. So what else have you got? [/quote]
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?
From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:
"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.
They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".
"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.
Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.
Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.
They rarely have much success."
“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”
Full article with video:
link to kfor.com
I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. You've all given me a bit of a crash education on this subject and directed me to some great sources for learning even more. It's bed time for me but I'm looking forward to reading any new post when I get up.
Once again, thank you!
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