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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 31297288:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTkzNjgxX0JGQUQwRjIw] [quote:Anonymous Coward 32235185:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTg1NDgzXzRBMkNDQzBF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 31297288:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTg1MTM4XzM4QzEwRUE2] [quote:Anonymous Coward 32235185:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTg1MDk2XzI0NTRBMTFD] [quote:Anonymous Coward 31297288:MV8yMTM3ODI1XzM2MTg0MTAxX0QyOEM4MkE0] "[b]The privilege against self-incrimination is neither accorded to the passive resistant, nor to the person who is ignorant of his rights, nor to one indifferent thereto. It is a FIGHTING clause. It's benefits can be retained only by sustained COMBAT. It cannot be claimed by attorney or solicitor. It is valid only when insisted upon by a BELLIGERENT claimant in person." McAlister vs. Henkel, 201 U.S. 90, 26 S.Ct. 385, 50 L. Ed. 671; Commonwealth vs. Shaw, 4 Cush. 594, 50 Am.Dec. 813; Orum vs. State, 38 Ohiohttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/911242#) App. 171, 175 N.E. 876. The one who is persuaded by honeyed words or moral persuasion to testify or produce documents rather than make a last ditch stand, simply loses the protection. . . . He must refuse to answer or produce, and test the matter in contempt proceedings, or by habeas corpus."[/b] The above is exactly how the system is set up, to prey on the weak and those bought and seduced by compliance with every whim of their masters. There are no "rights" unless and until you are willing to TAKE THEM, they are not "given" they are FORCED from the grip of government by a BELLIGERENT COMBATIVE and WILLING man or woman. To believe a US Citizen is "free" and has "rights" because of what others fought died for is A LIE, only YOU can stand up and take what is your birthright from those who would happily enslave you. [/quote] How did that work out for Ed and Elaine Brown or others you may know? [/quote] I do not associate with tax cheats. They endorsed Federal Reserve Credit, they then refused to pay the owner of that credit a return of currency, that is a property crime. The courts upheld a legal and constitutional law in their prosecution, end of discussion for me. [/quote] Are you saying if you endorse by using the remedy Title 12 sec 411 you don't have to pay taxes? [/quote] I am not saying that at all. I am saying and have been saying that the question "does redeeming lawful money per 12 USC 411 redeem one from the income tax"? has NEVER been tried in court. Bringing up individual cases where the defendant or appellant has not demanded redemption per 12 USC 411 is pointless, since the question before the court is different. There is ample evidence the IRS believes it makes a difference, since full refunds have been issued without question to those doing it. In some cases, their were questions, but once the status of the demand record was given, the IRS has backed off immediately. [b]Full refunds are NOT proof[/b], but the results are there and to date, and after years of people doing it, no threats nor cases nor bulletins about "frivolous arguments" have been made by the IRS, anyone can verify that for themselves. Like it or not, agree with it or not, those are the facts to date. [/quote]
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?
From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:
"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.
They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".
"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.
Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.
Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.
They rarely have much success."
“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”
Full article with video:
link to kfor.com
I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. You've all given me a bit of a crash education on this subject and directed me to some great sources for learning even more. It's bed time for me but I'm looking forward to reading any new post when I get up.
Once again, thank you!
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