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FreeMasons - truth
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[quote:Anonymous Coward 2263358:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjU0MjYyX0QyNkMzRjY2] [quote:K.Kool:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjU0MDIyX0I1ODQyRTBD] [quote:Anonymous Coward 2263358:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjUzNzIwX0MzMTI2MTFD] [quote:K.Kool:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjUzNDkwXzIyQTAwNjhF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 1811682:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjUzMjQwXzkzODMwNDcx] [quote:K.Kool:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjUwODc0X0EwRTFCOTkz] [quote:Anonymous Coward 8309474:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjQ2NjM2XzM4MTY0NkRE] [quote:K.Kool:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjQ1NTgzX0JCN0I3QTJF] [quote:Anonymous Coward 1746456:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjQ1NDQwXzhGMDUwRUFG] [quote:K.Kool:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjQ1MzI2XzM1NzMxQTk5] [quote:Anonymous Coward 1746456:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzM4MjQ1MTgzX0JDNzJEMkYy] [quote:Anonymous Coward 40702571:MV8yMjQ5Njc4XzY0NkExQjZE] lets get factual. Can informed participants confirm this? 1- Basis of Masonry is Gnostics and Theosophy: The creator was Wisdom or Adam Kamon 2- Evil & good are at the same level 3- Godhead is unknown. IHVH is a lesser bad god for humanity; Lucifer is another lesser god but good for humanity 4- Christ was a tool of the Godhead, not of IHVH 5- New Jersulamen is a world under the some political and spiritual Lider 6- Royal secret is ability to kill and defence of Evil 7- Getting to the celestial lodge in practice means that important men keepliving in the mind of humanity 8- The arriving of spirits from Sirius to the Earth is just something minoritarian, not general belief 9- do not accept limits, free from idea of sin, like gods are [/quote] Longtime Mason here. Also Companion of the HRA and SPRS (32*). 1. No. The basis of Masonry is using stoneworking tools "the working tools" as a means of symbolizing how we should plan our days and live our lives as we strive to make our lives worth while to our families and communities. 2. No. Evil, per se, has no place in Masonry. Although, we often say "we all hang our own plumb lines" (meaning that people's morals may not be identical). 3. God is whichever "god" you worship. You should have all the faith in the world for that god. For myself and every other Mason I know, that god is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All Masonic allegories revolve around stories of this God and the Bible. 4. Christ is whatever you think he is. Religion is not a part of Masonry. There is no religious instruction in Masonry. To illustrate concepts, stories and allegories related to the Bible are used but that's because at the time the allegories were made, knowledge of the Bible was almost universal among educated people. They were already familiar with the stories. 5. Not a part of Masonry. 6. Not even close. 7. That's one meaning. But it's more commonly used like saying someone went to "a better place" or "that big roller Derby in the sky" or whatever heaven can colloquially be called. 8. Not a part of Masonry. 9. That goes directly AGAINST the symbols of the compass and square. So that's definitely not right. Hope this helped. [/quote] And what do you say about the charge of the end justifying the means? [/quote] In general, don't you think it's up to each individual whether or not a predicted "end" can justify a given "means" or method? Maybe I don't understand your question. [/quote] Of course morality is up to each individual, we cannot force it on anyone. Now I'm concerned you believe moral ethics to be purely relative, and not based on objective reason? [/quote] I don't think this thread is about what any one person believes. Also, why are you so concerned about what I believe when you still haven't gotten it all figured out yourself? I'd say it would be prudent to just be concerned about yourself, try to be a good person and leave it at that. [/quote] Lol, you masons are such adroit side-steppers! I'm asking the question as regards freemasonry (this thread is about freemasonry) and you as a freemason can answer if you want to clear up what freemasonry believes about objective morality, or not.. I don't believe an evil action, an immoral action, is justified, even if the desired result is 'good'. If we all subscribed to the end justifies the means, we would descend into a state of corrupted chaos, is this what free masons want? [/quote] You know, life is more than cliches like "the end justifies the means". In fact, it's a meaningless cliche. No one can accurately predict an "end". Take Hitler for example. He sought a "glorious end" which required "horrifying means". But guess what--the "end never came about--his plan was thwarted. So no one can say the means were justified (not even the most avid Nazi). Take building a new church, for example. The preacher asks everyone in the congregation to dig deep and sacrifice hard to donate to the new church being built. Halfway through the construction, a tornado hits the building site. The new church is never built. If the church would have been built, then the end (new church) would probably justify the means (sacrificing to donate). But since the church was never built, then the "end" was a hypothetical one and did not justify the means. To say in any circumstance that a predicted "end" justifies a given "means" or method is an arrogant and feeble rationalization. That's because our predicted "end" is subject to variables that we can't know about or control. That's what I think. Life is not about rules of thumb and cliches. Those things are for people who lack critical thinking skills. It helps them make decisions when they can't figure out what to do. Now why don't you quit assuming so much about Masonry? Haven't you noticed that most "conspiracy stuff" you read on the internet is complete rubbish". Project Camelot comes to mind. Worry about yourself. Yes, it's easier to let your imagination run wild about what you think other people are doing than to take a look in the mirror. As a Mason, improving myself and keeping my nose out of my neighbors' business are priorities for me. Maybe you might learn from that. [/quote] Ok, I'll try one more time, to get a straight answer. Do masons carry out acts that are objectively immoral, in order to bring about a desired result? I'm not interested in whether the result eventuates or not. [/quote] Masons are individual people. So, in their individual lives, they may do things which are against their own conscience in order to bring about a desired result. The same can be said about anyone. The whole idea that "Masonry as a whole" has some type of "objective" is false. It's simply not true in the least. The idea of "the end justifies the means" is one that YOU are employing. Look at what you are doing. You are making wild accusations about good people and even badgering them on the internet in order to achieve choir intended "end" of figuring out this perceived conspiracy. I'd say that it might be you who has compromised her morals in order to achieve an "end". [/quote] Why belong to something that has no objective? Some history from Germany, illustrating masonic activities in the political sphere: "In Germany two-thirds of the Masons are members of the old Prussian Grand Lodges under the protectorship of a member of the Royal Dynasty, which implies a severe control of all lodge activity in conformity with the aims of the Government. Hence German Freemasons are scarcely capable of independent action. But they certainly furthered the movement by which Prussia gradually became the leading state of Germany, considered by them as the "representative and the protector of modern evolution" against "Ultramontanism", "bigotry", and "Papal usurpations". They also instigated the "Kulturkampf". The celebrated jurisconsult and Mason, Grandmaster Bluntschli, was one of the foremost agitators in this conflict; he also stirred up the Swiss "Kulturkampf". At his instigation the assembly of the "Federation of the German Grand Lodges", in order to increase lodge activity in the sense of the "Kulturkampf", declared, 24 May, 1874: "It is a professional duty for the lodges to see to it, that the brethren become fully conscious of the relations of Freemasonry to the sphere of ethical life and cultural purposes. Freemasons are obliged to put into effect the principles of Freemasonry in practical life and to defend the ethical foundations of human society, whensoever these are assailed. The Federation of the German Grand Lodges will provide, that every year questions of actuality be proposed to all lodges for discussion and uniform action".  German Freemasons put forth untiring efforts to exert a decisive influence on the whole life of the nation in keeping with Masonic principles, thus maintaining a perpetual silent "Kulturkampf". The principal means which they employ are popular libraries, conferences, the affiliation of kindred associations and institutions, the creation, where necessary, of new institutions, through which the Masonic spirit permeates the nation." http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm [/quote] I can't speak for German Masons. I realize that my posts indicate that I am posting from Germany but that's a mistake. I'm American. For some reason, when I post from my phone, it says I'm posting from Germany. But to address your concerns about what you posted above, I have to agree that it's pretty screwed up to organize a political action group under the guise of a Masonic Lodge. It reminds me of how some white supremacist groups here in the southern US have organized themselves under the guise of Baptist churches. But I would be really jumping the gun to assume that Baptists are in on some conspiracy. I love Baptists. They're some of the nicest, most generous people you'd ever meet. [/quote]
lets get factual. Can informed participants confirm this?
1- Basis of Masonry is Gnostics and Theosophy:
The creator was Wisdom or Adam Kamon
2- Evil & good are at the same level
3- Godhead is unknown. IHVH is a lesser bad god for humanity;
Lucifer is another lesser god but good for humanity
4- Christ was a tool of the Godhead, not of IHVH
5- New Jersulamen is a world under the some political and spiritual Lider
6- Royal secret is ability to kill and defence of Evil
7- Getting to the celestial lodge in practice means that important men keepliving in the mind of humanity
8- The arriving of spirits from Sirius to the Earth is just something minoritarian, not general belief
9- do not accept limits, free from idea of sin, like gods are
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