magnetic reconnection

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sjw40364
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by sjw40364 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:50 pm

seasmith wrote:
seasmith wrote:
sjw wrote:

So am I positing an electric charge with no B field? You bet I am, because until those individual charges align and resonate together, no dipole exists, ...

So just to clarify that statement, are you saying that there can be a single charge monopole,
but as soon as there are two or more of them, they are [can become] dipoles ?

If they travel together and align, no matter how briefly that may or may not be, regardless of the distance between them, they become what is known as a dipole.

errmm... is that a yes ?
:?:
Yes and no. An electric charge without an opposite pole is kind of an oxymoron, but because it may connect to the opposite charge does not mean it is aligned and resonating together and therefore a dipole as currently described. So yes, an electric monopole may or may not connect to an opposite charge and still be considered a monopole until and if they align at which point only dipoles are detected. Whether you want to call two charges connected but not aligned monopoles or dipoles is up to you, but in current terminology they would indeed still be monopoles. This distinction is made for one simple reason. Electric fields do not require an opposite pole to propagate and current pathways can be broken, while magnetic fields cannot exist without one, and can never be blocked or broken. That is electric fields have been observed to extend as far as we can measure them without termination, while magnetic fields always terminate on a nearby pole without exception.

Goldminer
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by Goldminer » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:50 am

sjw40364 wrote:
seasmith wrote:
seasmith wrote:
sjw wrote:

So am I positing an electric charge with no B field? You bet I am, because until those individual charges align and resonate together, no dipole exists, ...

So just to clarify that statement, are you saying that there can be a single charge monopole,
but as soon as there are two or more of them, they are [can become] dipoles ?

If they travel together and align, no matter how briefly that may or may not be, regardless of the distance between them, they become what is known as a dipole.

errmm... is that a yes ?
:?:
Yes and no. An electric charge without an opposite pole is kind of an oxymoron, but because it may connect to the opposite charge does not mean it is aligned and resonating together and therefore a dipole as currently described. So yes, an electric monopole may or may not connect to an opposite charge and still be considered a monopole until and if they align at which point only dipoles are detected. Whether you want to call two charges connected but not aligned monopoles or dipoles is up to you, but in current terminology they would indeed still be monopoles. This distinction is made for one simple reason. Electric fields do not require an opposite pole to propagate and current pathways can be broken, while magnetic fields cannot exist without one, and can never be blocked or broken. That is electric fields have been observed to extend as far as we can measure them without termination, while magnetic fields always terminate on a nearby pole without exception.
Yeah, but the "nearby pole" is still on the electric charge, the electron or the proton. You don't get an electric charge without a dipole magnetic circuit. One magnetic circuit comes "free with each charge, no extra cost"
I sense a disturbance in the farce.

sjw40364
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by sjw40364 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:02 am

Goldminer wrote:
sjw40364 wrote:
seasmith wrote:
seasmith wrote:
sjw wrote:

So am I positing an electric charge with no B field? You bet I am, because until those individual charges align and resonate together, no dipole exists, ...

So just to clarify that statement, are you saying that there can be a single charge monopole,
but as soon as there are two or more of them, they are [can become] dipoles ?

If they travel together and align, no matter how briefly that may or may not be, regardless of the distance between them, they become what is known as a dipole.

errmm... is that a yes ?
:?:
Yes and no. An electric charge without an opposite pole is kind of an oxymoron, but because it may connect to the opposite charge does not mean it is aligned and resonating together and therefore a dipole as currently described. So yes, an electric monopole may or may not connect to an opposite charge and still be considered a monopole until and if they align at which point only dipoles are detected. Whether you want to call two charges connected but not aligned monopoles or dipoles is up to you, but in current terminology they would indeed still be monopoles. This distinction is made for one simple reason. Electric fields do not require an opposite pole to propagate and current pathways can be broken, while magnetic fields cannot exist without one, and can never be blocked or broken. That is electric fields have been observed to extend as far as we can measure them without termination, while magnetic fields always terminate on a nearby pole without exception.
Yeah, but the "nearby pole" is still on the electric charge, the electron or the proton. You don't get an electric charge without a dipole magnetic circuit. One magnetic circuit comes "free with each charge, no extra cost"
No, the proton or electron are conductors, not charges. They are made up of charges. So when two conductors interract you get electric current, just as when two charges interact. Two conductors passing may not always produce an electric current, only when they interact and align. But that does not mean the individual charge of the conductor does not contain an electric field produced by the internal charges that is not connected to anything else. Having the ability to align and produce current is not the same as having to align at all times. Hence observation that electric fields extend as far as can be measured without terminatuion. Of course I do not claim this does not mean they do not terminate to some far off opposite pole, but since observation has not shown this to be the case one can only assume a monopole charge is viable until experiment proves otherwise.

sjw40364
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by sjw40364 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:21 pm

Although as some would attest, the fact of putting the probe into the equation completes the pole, so only by observing or detecting, or completing the circuit, does the field exist. I accept this as a possibility, meaning no monopole exists.

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StefanR
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by StefanR » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:21 pm

Just thought I add this link to an older discussion with some collection of links:
Whistler waves, double layers, magnetic reconnection

It has some posts with links to observed processes and such.

Have fun.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

seasmith
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by seasmith » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:10 pm

4 min.
dazzling SDO video of "plasma rain" :

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sdo/n ... -rain.html



[of course those are not magnetic 'lines' creating those bowl shapes, just hoops of solar wire ;) ]

puppy
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by puppy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:32 pm

4 min.
dazzling SDO video of "plasma rain" :

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sdo/n ... -rain.html



[of course those are not magnetic 'lines' creating those bowl shapes, just hoops of solar wire ]
So cool! I like how the music was called "Thunderbolt" by Lars Leonhard...whatever model describes that event correctly, its certainly electric

roughone
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by roughone » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:13 pm

. That is electric fields have been observed to extend as far as we can measure them without termination, while magnetic fields always terminate on a nearby pole without exception.
I think that the relative size is a consideration. A north magnetic pole can be a uniform monopole of magnetic force if the object under consideration, inside the field established by it is small enough in comparison. The existence of the South Pole can be so far removed as to be irrelevant functionally and in terms of large scale differences in dimensions and the opposite pole virtually undetectable and irrelevant as far as local phenomena are concerned? The apparent dipole would seem and behave as a standing monopole field if the scale difference and location of the small perspective were large enough?

This makes me wonder that perhaps the chirality biases we observe are just the result of being located within a truly large overwhelming standing field. We are dominated by one standing field and not the other and have not the optics yet to see more deeply to provide an accurate perspective? Perhaps we only live as a microcosm in the vast magnetic monopole, which is yet only a half part of an even vaster magnetic dipole?

Magnetism could account for much?


:geek:

seasmith
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by seasmith » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:41 pm


justcurious
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by justcurious » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 pm

from http://mrx.pppl.gov/

It's mind boggling how these folks are so way off track. If they want to learn about plasma and electromagnetics, why re-invent the wheel? There's tons of research on this stuff already. I'm completely blown away. I still don't understand what the heck they mean. Are they describing leakage in the magnetosphere which allows some solar plasma to seep through and make it to the poles? Is that reconnection?

The Magnetic Reconnection Experiment (MRX) is a small laboratory experiment located at the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL). This project is also affiliated with Center for Magnetic Self-Organization in Laboratory and Astrophysical Plasmas (CMSO). The goal of MRX is to investigate the fundamental physics of magnetic field line reconnection, an important process in magnetized plasmas in space and in the laboratory. Click here to learn more about magnetic reconnection.

When clicking to "learn more" I get the below nonsense... (disclaimer, I'm just a dumb guy who studied EE a long time ago)

What is Magnetic Reconnection?

Magnetic reconnection (henceforth called "reconnection") refers to the breaking and reconnecting of oppositely directed magnetic field lines in a plasma. In the process, magnetic field energy is converted to plasma kinetic and thermal energy.

Reconnection is at the heart of many spectacular events in our solar system. For example, solar flares which occur near sunspots are believed to be powered by magnetic reconnection. Solar magnetic activity, including flares, can eject high energy charged particles into space. When the particles reach Earth, they can disrupt power grids and communications systems and threaten spacecraft and satellites. A related phenomenon is the aurora seen near the polar regions of Earth as well as on other magnetized planets. The Earth's own magnetic field is constantly perturbed by the impinging field from the sun (called the solar wind). During strong bursts (such as those caused by extraordinary solar flares) reconnection can be induced in the near-Earth magnetotail (a narrow magnetic field structure located on the night side many Earth-radii away). The tenuous plasma in that region is then accelerated down magnetic field lines into the polar regions, striking Earth's atmosphere and exciting nitrogen and oxygen atoms as well as other atoms present in our atmosphere. The immediate de-excitation of these atoms then emit the wonderful and often intricate display of light we know as the aurora or northern (and southern) lights.

In plasma physics, it is well known that magnetic field lines are "frozen-in" to an infinitely conductive plasma. Since charged plasma particles are confined to circular orbits around magnetic field lines, this means that infinitely conductive plasmas will not diffuse across field lines and mix. Conversely, two distinct field lines will remain separate since they cannot penetrate the intervening plasma. In most cases, solar and magnetospheric plasmas can be described very accurately with such a theory since they are both very conductive. However, straightforward application of the theory would remove the possibility of ejected solar plasma penetrating the magnetosphere since the plasmas would not be allowed to mix. Nevertheless, based on observations and known technological disruptions, we know that they must mix, but how?

The answer resides in the fact that when plasmas carrying oppositely directed magnetic field lines are brought together, a strong current sheet is established, in the presence of which even a vanishingly small amount of resistivity in a small volume can become important, allowing plasma diffusion and, thus, magnetic reconnection to occur.

Sparky
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by Sparky » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:51 pm

I suspect that what are called magnetic reconnections are exploding double layers. :?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

justcurious
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by justcurious » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:20 pm

What is "magnetic reconnection"? Any formal definition?

Sparky
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by Sparky » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:45 pm

Magnetic reconnectionis a physical process in highly conducting plasmas in which the magnetic topology is rearranged and magnetic energy is converted to kinetic energy, thermal energy, and particle acceleration....---------The qualitative description of the reconnection process is such that magnetic field lines from different magnetic domains (defined by the field line connectivity) are spliced to one another, changing their patterns of connectivity with respect to the sources.----------The resistivity of the current layer allows magnetic flux from either side to diffuse through the current layer, cancelling out flux from the other side of the boundary. When this happens, the plasma is pulled out by magnetic tension along the direction of the magnetic field lines. The resulting drop in pressure pulls more plasma and magnetic flux into the central region, yielding a self-sustaining process.
.

:roll:


Image
Magnetic Reconnection: This view is a cross-section through four magnetic domains undergoing separator reconnection. Two separatrices (see text) divide space into four magnetic domains with a separator at the center of the figure. Field lines (and associated plasma) flow inward from above and below the separator, reconnect, and spring outward horizontally. A current sheet (as shown) may be present but is not required for reconnection to occur. This process is not well understood: once started, it proceeds many orders of magnitude faster than predicted by standard models."

The High Resolution Coronal Imager (Hi-C) is a sub-orbital telescope designed to take high-resolution images of the Sun's corona.
The experiment revealed never-before-seen "magnetic braids" of plasma roiling in the Sun's outer layers.[2] It was the first time scientists were able to directly observe magnetic reconnection in braids, which may be the primary sources of heating in the active solar corona.


:roll:
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

seasmith
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by seasmith » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:32 am

~
Video of [solar] magnetic domains Merging,
(without the hype•rbole):

http://www.scienceworldreport.com/artic ... -video.htm

Michael Mozina
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Re: magnetic reconnection

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:20 pm

Sparky wrote:I suspect that what are called magnetic reconnections are exploding double layers. :?
Ding ding ding, give the man a cookie.

It's not the magnetic lines that reconnect in the double layer of plasma, it's the current.

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