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UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC

 
TLE
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03/18/2010 12:10 PM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
I certainly will. Love Hamburg. We had a summer home in Clarksville until a couple of years ago. You live in a very pretty area.
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
No, I don't.

To the people who have seen it there is no logical answer. Yet.

I am still hoping that the professor that I talked to yesterday saw it last night. He was going to watch for it. Hopefully he took me serious and did. Otherwise I don't know what else to do. He said he would contact me today if he saw anything. If he looked past 9:10pm, he had to have seen it.

At this point I almost don't care. I've seen it. My husband has seen it and the company we had at the house last night saw it. In my mind that is validation enough for me.
 Quoting: TLE 916917



Just to clarify--TLE is in Buffalo. New York and is talking about a stationary object she is seeing.

As it stands now, what is being reported in Euclid are moving objects that are fairly close.
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
It still Venus, you dolts.
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Case closed: MUFON says Euclid, OH, UFOs are planes

The objects reported nightly over Lake Erie skies at Euclid, Ohio, are incoming jet traffic from Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport, according to Ohio Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) Field Investigator Tom Wertman.

Wertman, like many other ufologists who called or wrote to the UFO Examiner on this case were suspicious of the case from the beginning. The suspicion, they say, is when a sighting repeats itself in the same spot over many nights. Ufologists seem to agree that sightings like this generally have a natural or manmade ending.

Wertman said he is marking this one - case closed. "It's air traffic for Cleveland-Hopkins," Wertman said. "The flights take a swing out over the lake where they can, at times, appear to be stationary. Then they move, one by one, to the southwest and into position to land - and right on time - according to the flight data available on the web."

[link to www.examiner.com]
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC

If you watch the following news clip it clearly states the FAA was contacted and they say these are NOT Planes or Jet's



So I find it funny now that the shills are claiming they are just planes, Since when does a Plane or Jet stick around for hours and also NOT show up on radar by the way as reported...




Plus the wittnesses said these objects were dimming out then getting very bright as well. Planes my ass, Do they not realize that many of us know that these Orbs of Plasma/Light are showing up worldwide right now?

Anyhow, Don't let them pull the wool over your eyes!

Peace,
Michael
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
bump

Last Edited by Michael Lee Hill on 03/19/2010 03:22 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
If you watch the following news clip it clearly states the FAA was contacted and they say these are NOT Planes or Jet's

 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill


You're still linking to that old mainstream media fluff piece from MSNBC over days of research by a real ufologist on the scene?

They matched the lights up with incoming flights to Hopkins down to the minute.

Give it up man. This one's totally debunked.
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
If you watch the following news clip it clearly states the FAA was contacted and they say these are NOT Planes or Jet's



You're still linking to that old mainstream media fluff piece from MSNBC over days of research by a real ufologist on the scene?

They matched the lights up with incoming flights to Hopkins down to the minute.

Give it up man. This one's totally debunked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017

I know better.
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
You're still linking to that old mainstream media fluff piece from MSNBC over days of research by a real ufologist on the scene?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017


You know when I had Mofon look into my own footage that has become shown on the history channel and proved the lights do not match any known FAA light configurations or color output, this was featured on UFO Hunters.

A few years prior to this happening I called Mufon and they sent two guys out and they had me fast forward through all my footage and then tell there was nothing there.

They said if something was zipping around and incredible speeds and doing 90 degree turns, then that was a UFO.

I was like who are you to say how a UFO behaves?

Anyhow, I think Mufon seems to be more in the Debunking business nowadays it seems.

They were wrong with my footage back then and they are wrong now.

Peace,
Michael

Last Edited by Michael Lee Hill on 03/19/2010 03:36 AM
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Oh ya, I have filmed these Orbs of light enter and leave Lake Erie :-) that was shown on the History Channel as well.

That is some freaky kinda plane?
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Give it up man. This one's totally debunked.

I know better.
 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill


I don't see how you can "know" better than people who were actually there and conducted organized observation.

Anybody who is still claiming that there are lights over Lake Erie that aren't airplanes now needs to get out there with watches and computers and teams of observers to validate their position.

Of course, we know that's not going to happen.
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
You know when I had Mofon look into my own footage that has become shown on the history channel
 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill



How long are you going to keep tooting that Hysteria Channel horn?

You're going to sit at home and cite the History Channel and MSNBC as your sources?


The discussion is about these recent reports from Euclid. And they've been systematically debunked.

Do you have any rebuttal of the details of the MUFON report? Are you saying the lights didn't continually match up with incoming flights to Hopkins?
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Give it up man. This one's totally debunked.

I know better.


I don't see how you can "know" better than people who were actually there and conducted organized observation.

Anybody who is still claiming that there are lights over Lake Erie that aren't airplanes now needs to get out there with watches and computers and teams of observers to validate their position.

Of course, we know that's not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017

I already have, I have hours of great footage, Bill Birnes has said I have the best footage he has ever seen, It's shot from a tri-pod and I know how to use my camera such as turning the auto focus off so it does not try and re-adjust.

My footage has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by the best in the field such as David Sereda, Bill Birnes, The History Channel, UFO News.

I have had them manifest 40 feet over my head and it lit up the whole beach.

This is not the last time they will be seen over Lake Erie.

And all you people believing they are just plains will have to re-adjust your worldview a little wider.
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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03/19/2010 03:50 AM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Do you have any rebuttal of the details of the MUFON report? Are you saying the lights didn't continually match up with incoming flights to Hopkins?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017

Yes the reporter called the FAA who said these objects are not in any normal air flight paths and they did not show up on radar.

That is not hard to understand?

I will not argue with you though.

As I said, This story is far from over

This is the last you will hear from me, I don't care what you believe.

I have had personal contact and I know the objects seen last week are the same exact objects, I have seen them enough to know :-)

Peace,
Michael
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Wright Patterson
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Michael, good stuff, thanks for posting, and congratulations on your patience dealing with the debunkers.

Are the sighting still ongoing? Are you still expecting further developments this month?
TLE

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03/19/2010 08:59 AM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Well, I promised an update on what is occuring in my neck of the woods.

Did I see the lights again last night? Yes, I did. Same approximate time, it started in the same exact place.

Did I hear from the professor from Buff State? No, I didn't. Which tells me he either did not take me serious or he looked where I told him to before 9:10(ish) on Wednesday night and not after that. Had he looked after that time with a pair of binoculars or a telescope, he would have seen it.

My husband mentioned going to buy a telescope so we could get a better look at it and I told him don't bother. Even if we did get a better look at it, we wouldn't know what we were looking at. My husband has a pretty decent camera w/lense and I may ask him to try to get a picture. He says that he thinks it is too small to really get anything worthwhile. I may ask him to humor me and try.

They are calling for clear skies again tonight. After tonight we are suppose to go into a period of cloudy skies-rainy weather for several days.

For the two people who live relatively close to me, if you want to see it, you are free to stop by this evening if the sky is clear. We can work out some kind of plan. I could call you and let you know if it is out there or not and you could make up your mind if you want to stop over. You don't have to worry, I am not some kind of whacko and if you are a whacko be forewarned, my husband is a brute and I have a big dog with big teeth. ;) *lol* Just kidding with ya... but if you really want to see this thing that I have been seeing, you are free to stop over. My husband may not be happy I am inviting complete strangers over but he loves me and will eventually get over it. :)

*If* anyone has any suggestions as to what else I could do to get someone with knowledge in these things to check this out, please let me know.

Tammy

Last Edited by TLE on 03/19/2010 01:15 PM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Well, I promised an update on what is occuring in my neck of the woods.

Did I see the lights again last night? Yes, I did. Same approximate time, it started in the same exact place.

Did I hear from the professor frum Buff State? No, I didn't. Which tells me he either did not take me serious or he looked where I told him to before 9:10(ish) on Wednesday night and not after that. Had he looked after that time with a pair of binoculars or a telescope, he would have seen it.

My husband mentioned going to buy a telescope so we could get a better look at it and I told him don't bother. Even if we did get a better look at it, we wouldn't know what we were looking at. My husband has a pretty decent camera w/lense and I may ask him to try to get a picture. He says that he thinks it is too small to really get anything worthwhile. I may ask him to humor me and try.

They are calling for clear skies again tonight. After tonight we are suppose to go into a period of rainy weather for several days.

For the two people who live relatively close to me, if you want to see it, you are free to stop by this evening if the sky is clear. We can work out some kind of plan. I could call you and let you know if it is out there or not and you could make up your mind if you want to stop over. You don't have to worry, I am not some kind of whacko and if you are a whacko be forewarned, my husband is a brute and I have a big dog with big teeth. ;) *lol* Just kidding with ya... but if you really want to see this thing that I have been seeing, you are free to stop over. My husband may not be happy I am inviting complete strangers over but he loves me and will eventually get over it. :)

*If* anyone has any suggestions as to what else I could do to get someone with knowledge in these things to check this out, please let me know.

Tammy
 Quoting: TLE


Thanks for the update Tammy. I work tonight so I wont be able to stop over...but thanks for the invite honey!
hugs I did go to the river the other night...but did not see anything...which is what I expected...oh well. Like I said in my email I have seen what you saw last summer about 4 times...I wish that professor did get back to you because I want to know what it is lol. Thanks again Tammy and peace to you!

hf
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
My footage has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by the best in the field such as David Sereda, Bill Birnes, The History Channel, UFO News.
 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill



Those are the best in the field?

Birnes was the guy who said the Morristown, N.J. hoax was real.
TLE
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
The verdict is in...

It is a star and due to the atmospheric conditions it appears as if it is blinking red, green and white.

One of the gentlemen that visited us on Wednesday night became so intrigued with what we were all seeing that he traveled to the Observatory in Binghamton, NY this evening and along with the astronomy personnel at the observatory, they were able to locate it through their telescopes and on their sky charts. Definitely a star.

So... this mystery is over. Thank you for your patience and for your support.

Tammy
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
So it's a moving star?, It's an airplane? Lanterns? Baloons? Flares?
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
From another thread, Good info so I am sharing it :-)

Here are two additional reports filed with Mufon:

[link to www.ufostalker.com]

Mufon UFO Stalker

Detail for Event ID 22376 x

Case Number: 22376

Log Number: US-03192010-0007

Submitted Date: 2010-03-19 12:35 GMT

Event Date: 2010-03-17 20:59 GMT

Status: Assigned

City: Euclid

Region: Ohio

Country: US

Longitude: -81.5168

Latitude: 41.5931

Shape: Flash

Description: [link to www.youtube.com] This is the video

You are not looking in the right direction. These are not planes. Planes do not fly this close to each other. Planes do not change colors. Planes do not sit still in the sky.

You need to send out a more competent field investigator, one that actually looks in the direction of the objects that are being sighted, not at the airport. March 17 8:40pm, Multiple illuminations sighted 315 NW from 260th street, and simultaneously 176 S, correlated by phone with a Parma resident. 8:44pm, Multiple illuminations sighted 300 NW from 260th street, and simultaneously 190 S 8:53pm / 285 W 9:08pm / 290 W 9:45pm / 290 W 9:59pm/ 280 W 10:46pm / 311 NW.

View the youtube video. I have to say you guys have not been doing your research or investigation adequately. It almost seems as though absolutely none of you at MUFON have more than a month's training.

[link to mufoncms.com]

Mufon Last Twenty Reports

Long Description of Sighting Report

We had heard about the recent sitings of a UFO hovering above Lake Erie near Euclid, OH, so we went and found a spot on a side street that looked over the lake near some apartments. We then saw what everyone was talking about. I never fully believed in UFO's until I saw this with my own eyes! It was mostly an amber-color but shifted to redish colors and sometimes more of a whitish colour. It would zig-zag sometimes, it would be stationary at others, and it would rapidly move all over the place at other times. It was not an airplane as it would move right and then left and then up and down with no rhyme or reason. It would fade in and out and change colors and intensity.

When I first noticed it I thought it could be a plane so I watched it for a few minutes to determine whether it could have been a plane or helicopter. After a few minutes it started its zigzagging so I deduced that it was not a plane. I considered a star or planet but it was all over the place.

I had no particular strong feelings other than thinking to myself wow I actually saw a UFO. I don't know if it's aliens or not, it's just unidentified and curious.

I listen to Coast to Coast AM all the time so I am familiar with the concepts of UFO's and what people can mistake them for.

It got cold so we decided to go home.

Last Edited by Michael Lee Hill on 03/20/2010 12:11 AM
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
gnostic

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03/20/2010 01:26 AM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Thanks for countering the noise, Michael, but try to ignore the people who have nothing to add. They're just hecklers. It's obvious to everyone that planes don't sit for hours or change colors. So when someone says that's a plane, it's not worth responding to.

When I'm walking down the street and a wino says something crazy to me - I don't stop to argue with him.

You don't either, right?

Please keep the rest of us updated with what's going on there and don't let the idiots drive you crazy.

Thanks!


From another thread, Good info so I am sharing it :-)

Here are two additional reports filed with Mufon:

[link to www.ufostalker.com]

Mufon UFO Stalker

Detail for Event ID 22376 x

Case Number: 22376

Log Number: US-03192010-0007

Submitted Date: 2010-03-19 12:35 GMT

Event Date: 2010-03-17 20:59 GMT

Status: Assigned

City: Euclid

Region: Ohio

Country: US

Longitude: -81.5168

Latitude: 41.5931

Shape: Flash

Description: [link to www.youtube.com] This is the video

You are not looking in the right direction. These are not planes. Planes do not fly this close to each other. Planes do not change colors. Planes do not sit still in the sky.

You need to send out a more competent field investigator, one that actually looks in the direction of the objects that are being sighted, not at the airport. March 17 8:40pm, Multiple illuminations sighted 315 NW from 260th street, and simultaneously 176 S, correlated by phone with a Parma resident. 8:44pm, Multiple illuminations sighted 300 NW from 260th street, and simultaneously 190 S 8:53pm / 285 W 9:08pm / 290 W 9:45pm / 290 W 9:59pm/ 280 W 10:46pm / 311 NW.

View the youtube video. I have to say you guys have not been doing your research or investigation adequately. It almost seems as though absolutely none of you at MUFON have more than a month's training.

[link to mufoncms.com]

Mufon Last Twenty Reports

Long Description of Sighting Report

We had heard about the recent sitings of a UFO hovering above Lake Erie near Euclid, OH, so we went and found a spot on a side street that looked over the lake near some apartments. We then saw what everyone was talking about. I never fully believed in UFO's until I saw this with my own eyes! It was mostly an amber-color but shifted to redish colors and sometimes more of a whitish colour. It would zig-zag sometimes, it would be stationary at others, and it would rapidly move all over the place at other times. It was not an airplane as it would move right and then left and then up and down with no rhyme or reason. It would fade in and out and change colors and intensity.

When I first noticed it I thought it could be a plane so I watched it for a few minutes to determine whether it could have been a plane or helicopter. After a few minutes it started its zigzagging so I deduced that it was not a plane. I considered a star or planet but it was all over the place.

I had no particular strong feelings other than thinking to myself wow I actually saw a UFO. I don't know if it's aliens or not, it's just unidentified and curious.

I listen to Coast to Coast AM all the time so I am familiar with the concepts of UFO's and what people can mistake them for.

It got cold so we decided to go home.
 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill

author, gnostic, misanthrope with hope
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Description: [link to www.youtube.com] This is the video

You are not looking in the right direction. These are not planes. Planes do not fly this close to each other. Planes do not change colors. Planes do not sit still in the sky.
 Quoting: Michael Lee Hill


This is more video from Eugene Erlikh.

If you read the MUFON report, Tom Wertman talked on the phone with Eugene and confirmed they were looking at the same objects and then had two teams of people tracking from different spots on the lake and confirmed they were planes headed to Hopkins.

All of the objects taped by Eugene and subsequently tracked by the MUFON team matched up with inbound flights to Hopkins and were visually tracked by the MUFON teams headed into the airport.
Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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03/20/2010 02:15 AM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Thanks for countering the noise, Michael, but try to ignore the people who have nothing to add. They're just hecklers. It's obvious to everyone that planes don't sit for hours or change colors. So when someone says that's a plane, it's not worth responding to.

When I'm walking down the street and a wino says something crazy to me - I don't stop to argue with him.

You don't either, right?

Please keep the rest of us updated with what's going on there and don't let the idiots drive you crazy.

Thanks!


 Quoting: gnostic

You are a breath of fresh air :-)

You give great advice

Thank You!
gnostic
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Did the people who were looking at the planes flying to Hopkins see them sit still in the sky, change colors and fly erratically for a few hours before heading into Hopkins?

Is it possible that while there were weird lights with non-plane like behavior there were also planes observed flying into Hopkins that didn't behave in this manner?

This is frustrating for those of us who can't be there to see for ourselves.

Both observations cannot be true. Network news reporters aren't in the habit of substantiating reports of unidentified craft in the face of a mundane explanation from a local airport authority.

Are you suggesting that the airport and the news channel are making this up? It's not uncommon for an observer to mistake something in the sky for something other than what it is - but the ususally don't have the local news and airport backing them up.

Just trying to get at the facts here...


This is more video from Eugene Erlikh.

If you read the MUFON report, Tom Wertman talked on the phone with Eugene and confirmed they were looking at the same objects and then had two teams of people tracking from different spots on the lake and confirmed they were planes headed to Hopkins.

All of the objects taped by Eugene and subsequently tracked by the MUFON team matched up with inbound flights to Hopkins and were visually tracked by the MUFON teams headed into the airport.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Is this still going on? bump
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Well, I promised an update on what is occuring in my neck of the woods.

Did I see the lights again last night? Yes, I did. Same approximate time, it started in the same exact place.

Did I hear from the professor from Buff State? No, I didn't. Which tells me he either did not take me serious or he looked where I told him to before 9:10(ish) on Wednesday night and not after that. Had he looked after that time with a pair of binoculars or a telescope, he would have seen it.

My husband mentioned going to buy a telescope so we could get a better look at it and I told him don't bother. Even if we did get a better look at it, we wouldn't know what we were looking at. My husband has a pretty decent camera w/lense and I may ask him to try to get a picture. He says that he thinks it is too small to really get anything worthwhile. I may ask him to humor me and try.

They are calling for clear skies again tonight. After tonight we are suppose to go into a period of cloudy skies-rainy weather for several days.

For the two people who live relatively close to me, if you want to see it, you are free to stop by this evening if the sky is clear. We can work out some kind of plan. I could call you and let you know if it is out there or not and you could make up your mind if you want to stop over. You don't have to worry, I am not some kind of whacko and if you are a whacko be forewarned, my husband is a brute and I have a big dog with big teeth. ;) *lol* Just kidding with ya... but if you really want to see this thing that I have been seeing, you are free to stop over. My husband may not be happy I am inviting complete strangers over but he loves me and will eventually get over it. :)

*If* anyone has any suggestions as to what else I could do to get someone with knowledge in these things to check this out, please let me know.

Tammy
 Quoting: TLE

Thanks for the update Tammy. hf
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Michael Lee Hill (OP)

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03/20/2010 01:31 PM
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Re: UPDATE! UFO sightings at Euclid, Ohio, over Lake Erie continues now for the NINTH DAY in a row, as reported by MSNBC
Reporter - The FAA said "Seems different from commercial flight Paths"

Nick Pope then says "Has anybody checked the RADAR tapes to see if there was anything unusual was tracked?

Reporter - "Well as a matter of fact I spoke with officials at the FAA, they checked in wth the Cleveland air traffic control and they have nothing unusual, nothing unusual on the RADAR"

So you have hundreds of people wittnessing huge Orbs of multi-colored plasma/Light for hours out over Lake Erie and Cleveland Air Traffic Control has nothing on their RADAR and the FAA and Cleveland Air Traffic Control confirm these are not normal commercial flight paths?

One would think that is they were indeed Planes or Jets they would also show up on RADAR and Cleveland Air traffic Control would know they are if they were normal planes coming in for a landing?

What is wrong with you people?

It's like when those two old dudes in England said they made all of the Crop Circles with planks of wood strapped to there feet and some people still to this day believe that All crop circles are man made by Doug & Dave :-)

It is sad that the masses have been so contioned to believe whatever the powers that be tell them.

Peace,
Michael

Last Edited by Michael Lee Hill on 03/20/2010 01:32 PM