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Why isn't abortion considered murder?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 631597
Netherlands
03/13/2010 07:01 PM
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Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?

I understand the concept of willing versus unwilling termination of the fetus, But if the fetus is not considered a living being in the eyes of the law when it comes to abortion, why then is it considered a living being when it involves the untimely death of the mother?

In my opinion, if the fetus is a living being in a case of murder, then it should also be considered a living being in the case of abortion. Is this not a logical conclusion?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 833769
Canada
03/13/2010 07:03 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
here we go again.... look out, it's the anti-abortion brigade! they must be replacing the anti-marijuana brigade from last week!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 631597
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03/13/2010 07:04 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
By the way, I'm in America, just under proxy because of this website and their liberal use of banning. I am speaking about the laws within the USA.
The Philosopher Stoned

User ID: 915005
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03/13/2010 07:06 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Because the anti-war hippies don't want to admit they're hypocrites.
Mister ObviousModerator
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03/13/2010 07:07 PM

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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Yeah, the double standards in this ass backward society are humorous.


Kill a pregnant woman, you get double homicide...


A whore aborts her baby and she gets a pat on the back from the whole nation.


You can all suck it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 631597
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03/13/2010 07:08 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
here we go again.... look out, it's the anti-abortion brigade! they must be replacing the anti-marijuana brigade from last week!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 833769

Holy Jesus, put my in a politically correct box why don't you? Just because I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in our laws, does not mean I am identifying with any part of the political spectrum.

Why don't you learn to think with your brain instead of jumping to some idiotic conclusion and labeling the person asking an honest question with some identity designed specifically to divide us?
rachel
User ID: 915044
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03/13/2010 07:09 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
wow another example of how hypocriticle the laws are.

great question!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914860
United States
03/13/2010 07:11 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Why isn't capital punishment considered murder?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 912608
United States
03/13/2010 07:13 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?

I understand the concept of willing versus unwilling termination of the fetus, But if the fetus is not considered a living being in the eyes of the law when it comes to abortion, why then is it considered a living being when it involves the untimely death of the mother?

In my opinion, if the fetus is a living being in a case of murder, then it should also be considered a living being in the case of abortion. Is this not a logical conclusion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 631597


the woman has been given the popular approval by the majority of irresponsible humans that wish to absolve themselves from their own sick actions.

in other words , a woman is given the right to murder her child if no one can hear the baby cry
LoTech

User ID: 915016
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03/13/2010 07:14 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
What really is murder?

Our society typically struggles with at least 5 issues associated with "murder":

abortion
war
euthanasia
death penalty
animal abuse

True belief in the sanctity of life requires a consistent approach to all of these, with the possible exception of animal slaughter.

Until our culture truly agrees that life is sacrosanct under all circumstances, all of the laws that govern these issues are hypocritical.

Like many, I can't bring myself to give up support for all types of murder (I think certain sexual predators should simply be killed, for example). So I find it difficult to take a high moral path about the rest.
][nfeRnaL
User ID: 763295
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03/13/2010 07:15 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
"Thou shalt not kill!"

There will be many to suffer over that one.
salamanderuk

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United Kingdom
03/13/2010 07:20 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Murder: The unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by another human being

If the law allows the one human to end the life of another human (or potential human as an embryo or fetus is) then such an action is not legally murder.

I'm not saying I agree with capital punishment, nor am I a fan of late stage abortions under normal circumstances, but that is what the law says.

Last Edited by salamanderuk on 03/13/2010 07:21 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
03/13/2010 07:30 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
OP yer an idiot.

What you said is not even true. Show a law that states that anywhere.

Remember to include the age of the fetus/baby if you do find one, ya big dumb idiot.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 631597
Netherlands
03/13/2010 07:38 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Murder: The unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by another human being

If the law allows the one human to end the life of another human (or potential human as an embryo or fetus is) then such an action is not legally murder.

I'm not saying I agree with capital punishment, nor am I a fan of late stage abortions under normal circumstances, but that is what the law says.
 Quoting: salamanderuk

Great example, thank you. But...

As we have all most obviously witnessed, laws can and will be changed, made, and or abolished altogether. In other words, those writing the laws can and will change them to suit their needs at any time, and just because the law says something is wrong, does that make it so? Or, if the law says something is good, does THAT make it so?

There are so many examples of this: Tobacco kills more than war does, yet it is legal. Same with alcohol. Marijuana is for the most part, harmless, yet it is illegal. In some cities here in America, there are still laws on the books that prohibit things like wearing your boots in bed, or wearing socks while swimming. While I understand that these laws are there because nobody has bothered to remove them, even though they are no longer enforced, what exactly is the purpose of such laws?

Is the law really the final say in what is morally right or wrong?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 825669
United States
03/13/2010 07:42 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?

I understand the concept of willing versus unwilling termination of the fetus, But if the fetus is not considered a living being in the eyes of the law when it comes to abortion, why then is it considered a living being when it involves the untimely death of the mother?

In my opinion, if the fetus is a living being in a case of murder, then it should also be considered a living being in the case of abortion. Is this not a logical conclusion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 631597

Because the mother is a human being who was born with inherent inalienable rights.
bobnightman

User ID: 914704
United States
03/13/2010 07:44 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Here is why...The baby that is aborted was not wanted for whatever reason...The one killed in accident would have been born
12/21/12
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 631597
Netherlands
03/13/2010 07:50 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
OP yer an idiot.

What you said is not even true. Show a law that states that anywhere.

Remember to include the age of the fetus/baby if you do find one, ya big dumb idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 851382

oh come on now! Calling me an idiot because I wish to ask a thought provoking question about one of the most controversial issues to plague America in modern times!

Do you read the newspapers in America? Have you seen the countless reports of men being convicted of double homicide for murdering their pregnant girlfriends and wives, or of drunken drivers that cause accidents that kill pregnant women?

Asking for information like you are doing is clearly nothing more than nitpicking at a conversation, and does not warrant a response.

The fact remains, this kind of legal action continues to occur in America, even to this day. Just read the newspapers for that proof.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 515386
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03/13/2010 07:56 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 631597



No, not hypocritical at all.

Two very different circumstances.

One is about murder, the other is about abortion.

Would you charge someone who tried to kill themselves with attempted murder?
bobnightman

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03/13/2010 07:58 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?


No, not hypocritical at all.

Two very different circumstances.

One is about murder, the other is about abortion.

Would you charge someone who tried to kill themselves with attempted murder?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 515386

Good point...
12/21/12
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 515386
United States
03/13/2010 07:59 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Do you read the newspapers in America? Have you seen the countless reports of men being convicted of double homicide for murdering their pregnant girlfriends and wives, or of drunken drivers that cause accidents that kill pregnant women?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 631597



I would be willing to bet that in most, if not all of these cases, the women was in later stages of pregnancy, where an abortion would not be legal.

Make sense?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914591
United States
03/13/2010 08:10 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
OP yer an idiot.

What you said is not even true. Show a law that states that anywhere.

Remember to include the age of the fetus/baby if you do find one, ya big dumb idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 851382

is possible but rare for a double-murder charge to be enforced in cases of homicide in which a pregnant woman is murdered, thereby killing her unborn fetus, such as in the Laci Peterson case

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 631597
Netherlands
03/13/2010 08:14 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?


No, not hypocritical at all.

Two very different circumstances.

One is about murder, the other is about abortion.

Would you charge someone who tried to kill themselves with attempted murder?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 515386

Well, believe it or not, there has been at least one case of an attempted suicide being charged as attempted murder. Though I can not provide any links or information on the case, nor can I say if the person was convicted, I do recall many years ago that this happened here in the USA. But since I can't provide any proof of this claim, take it for what it is: hearsay

Concerning the rest of your statement, I think it kind of ignores the over all idea behind my question. I understand the ins and outs of the laws regarding murder and abortion. What I am getting at is that they seem rather hypocritical.

I also understand the reasoning behind the law concerning abortion. the fetus is considered a part of the womans body for purposes of law. And as such, it isn't considered murder for removing that body part any more than it would be considered murder for removing ones appendix.

But this still leave the hypocrisy standing when it comes to the unlawful death of a pregnant woman. If the fetus is considered a body part for purposes of abortion laws, then why is it considered a living being in and of itself when determining charges of murder in the case of unlawful death of the mother?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914973
United States
03/13/2010 08:19 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
There is no right to mureder ones child. It is a responsibility.

The government can legalize murder, it is still murder according to God and all who have done it will answer for it one day.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914591
United States
03/13/2010 08:20 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
In 2003, the state of Texas amended its Wrongful Death Act to recognize the rights of the “individual” before birth. Previously, any child who had not been born was not considered to be a living person, and therefore did not have any rights

[link to www.jimadler.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914690
United States
03/13/2010 08:23 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
There is no right to mureder ones child. It is a responsibility.

The government can legalize murder, it is still murder according to God and all who have done it will answer for it one day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914973



True. So leave them to God. It won't be long anyway. Let the dead bury their dead as the Bible says.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 914591
United States
03/13/2010 08:24 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Late Term Abortion – The procedures
There are three general procedures of late-term abortions and partial birth abortions. The first and most popular is called D&E (Dilation and evacuation). Once the cervix is dilated, the fetus is removed by inserting forceps into the uterus. The Fetus is then separated into pieces. These “pieces” of your baby will be removed one at a time. Vacuum aspiration is then used to ensure no tissue remains in the uterus.

The second procedure is early induction of labor. This is very painful and intense for the woman and is rarely used as an abortion procedure.

The third procedure is called Intact D&X surgery. This procedure includes a 2-3 day process to gradually dilate the cervix using sticks of seaweed which absorb fluid and swell. Once this process is finished, the doctor uses forceps and grasps the baby’s leg to turn it to breech position. The baby is then pulled out of the birth canal, leaving the head inside the canal. An incision is then made at the base of the baby’s skull and the brain tissue is removed, causing the skull to collapse. The entire baby is then removed.

[link to www.allaboutlifechallenges.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 851382
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03/13/2010 09:28 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
OP yer an idiot.

What you said is not even true. Show a law that states that anywhere.

Remember to include the age of the fetus/baby if you do find one, ya big dumb idiot.

is possible but rare for a double-murder charge to be enforced in cases of homicide in which a pregnant woman is murdered, thereby killing her unborn fetus, such as in the Laci Peterson case

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 914591


yes, yet OP is still an idiot.

Abortion is only allowed at a certain time. That same time, if the pregnant woman is murdered, they would not be charged for two murders.

OP is not asking anything other than a dumb question.
jnchisox1

User ID: 773524
United States
03/13/2010 09:29 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Yeah, the double standards in this ass backward society are humorous.


Kill a pregnant woman, you get double homicide...


A whore aborts her baby and she gets a pat on the back from the whole nation.


You can all suck it.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious

well said
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 862126
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03/13/2010 09:31 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Abortion = Death (Stopping life). Murder is subjective.
Joker

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03/13/2010 09:38 PM

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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
I consider it murder.
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2010 09:41 PM
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Re: Why isn't abortion considered murder?
If a pregnant woman is murdered, the suspect will be charged with double homicide. Yet when a woman has an abortion, it is considered legal. Isn't this more than just a bit hypocritical?

I understand the concept of willing versus unwilling termination of the fetus, But if the fetus is not considered a living being in the eyes of the law when it comes to abortion, why then is it considered a living being when it involves the untimely death of the mother?

In my opinion, if the fetus is a living being in a case of murder, then it should also be considered a living being in the case of abortion. Is this not a logical conclusion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 631597


The quick answer to your question is that our "leaders" like Obama lack a "moral compass". When Obama was asked when a fetus should be considered a human with rights he reduced it to a money question by answering that he wasn't paid enough to answer. Now that he has control of billions of our tax dollars in the stimulus package he should be able to answer but he won't.

Yep, making murdering a fetus legal and even having it elevated to a "right" by some, produces many absurdities.

How about the fact that a pregnant teen will be charged with murder if she stuffs her new born baby in a trash can but if she had scheduled a partial birth abortion that day she could have gone free after her doctor murders her baby.

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