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High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say

 
RazriN v10.0
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03/17/2010 08:34 PM
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High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
By Julian Beltrame, The Canadian Press

OTTAWA - The Canadian loonie is again flying near parity with the U.S. greenback - but this time no one is surprised and most expect the currency to remain aloft for years.

The dollar continued its steady climb Wednesday, at one point hitting 99.31 cents US - its highest level in 20 months - before closing just below the 99-cent level.

And unlike in late 2007 when the dollar briefly touched $1.10 US before falling back and then dropping below parity for good by July 2008, economists say the loonie isn't likely to be knocked off its perch so easily this time.

Royal Bank currency strategist David Watt believes the loonie will hover around parity for the next two or three years.

"We've taken to calling parity the new normal for the Canadian dollar," he said.

"Before, whenever there was a crisis anywhere in the world, the Canadian dollar rushed to the front in terms of getting beaten up. But now you get more talk of Canada as a safe haven."

It shouldn't come as a complete surprise. The loonie has been mostly in ascendency since 2002, when it sunk as low as about 62 cents US.

The recent surge faces two tests in the next week, starting with Friday's inflation report, followed by Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney's speech to the Canadian Association for Business Economics next Wednesday.

Both promise to exert a downward draft on the currency - Friday's prices data is expected to show annual inflation dropped half a point to 1.4 per cent, which will give Carney the flexibility to reaffirm his pledge to keep the policy interest rate at the historic low until July.

But it won't much matter, says the TD Bank's deputy chief economist, Craig Alexander.

Fundamentals, rather than events, are filling the loonie's sails now, as opposed to 2007, when the currency overshot its rational level because of weakness in the U.S. dollar and sentiments that oil prices had no ceiling.

Today, the U.S. greenback is holding steady against most currencies and oil prices, while rising, are nowhere near the record $147 a barrel reached in 2008. On Wednesday, world oil prices rose to US$82.80 a barrel, a gain of $1.10.

Alexander agrees that Canadians, particularly businesses, are going to have to get used to operating at currency parity with the U.S.

Industry Minister Tony Clement says many firms have already made the adjustment.

"What we're seeing is that Canadian manufacturers and other exporters are learning to live with the higher dollar," he told reporters.

"And they are increasing their labour factor productivity, which is all good news."

Statistics Canada reported Tuesday that productivity - the Achilles heel of the Canadian economy - jumped a surprising 1.4 per cent in the last three months of 2009, the biggest increase in a dozen years.

Productivity gains are crucial because they enable Canada's economy to grow even if the labour force starts shrinking, as is expected with boomers moving into retirement.

Adding to the recovery trend, the agency said Wednesday that wholesale sales had their strongest advance in three years in January, gaining three per cent to $44.4 billion.

The Canadian economy is not all the way back from the recession, but its initial spurt is stronger than expected. The five per cent gross domestic product increase in the fourth quarter of 2009 appears to gathering momentum in the first three months of 2010.

More to the point, said Alexander, is that the Canadian economy is performing better than the U.S. economy, which reflects well on the currency valuation.

"The reality is the domestic side of the Canadian economy is much stronger, (and) the Canadian financial system is operating normally, whereas the U.S. system isn't," he explains.

"The strong Canadian dollar is here to stay."

In comments in London on Tuesday, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty credited his government's relatively strong fiscal position despite a record $54-billion deficit this year. National debt relative to the size of the economy is headed to a level only half that of the U.S., and one-third that of some European countries.

Also pushing up the currency is the perception that Canada's resource-based economy will continue to benefit from high oil and mineral prices.

Until recently, both Flaherty and Carney had been warning that the strong currency could derail the recovery.

But on Tuesday, Flaherty called the current level of the currency "competitive," suggesting there has been a reconsideration of how damaging a high-flying loonie will be to the recovery.

A recent Conference Board analysis argued that while a strong dollar remains a net negative, many firms in the key manufacturing, mining and the oil and gas sectors had "internationalized" operations, so as to hedge against currency volatility.

The last piece of the puzzle for the dollar's staying power may be psychological. It's been there before and the sky didn't fall, Watt said.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:46 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
"___________" here to stay, followed by "it's different this time" are always the famous last words before an epic crash.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 08:48 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
"___________" here to stay, followed by "it's different this time" are always the famous last words before an epic crash.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751



Don't you feel the difference this time? Don't you feel and see all the investors coming to Canada?

Canada got like 100+ billion in foreign investments in the last year...

MORE THAN ONE HUNDREED BEELLIONAIRE DOLLARS!
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:54 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
just devalue to 0.75c. economies of scale don't reflect the parity. it's speculation - this is the canada bubble.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:55 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:57 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


If you are invested in ANY bond funds - be sure to check the prospectus or whatever VERY carefully. Make sure there are NO CMHC bonds. TD Bank has a couple that I know of, not sure about the others.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:58 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
How often have they been right? They like to speculate to reassure the sheep.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 08:58 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


Interesting. Thank you!
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 08:58 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751



When do you think the housing bubble will snap?
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 08:58 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
Yeah until the US collapse and we do too...
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:00 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


that's a 3000sq ft lot in central vancouver. try the same lot in manhattan.. maybe another 1.5million.
Lily

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03/17/2010 09:09 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


That's why CMHC is nicknamed "Morey Haz" (i.e. Moral Hazard)
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:09 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]


that's a 3000sq ft lot in central vancouver. try the same lot in manhattan.. maybe another 1.5million.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918047



Yeah but man, I live here, and I would pay that much to live here.

I don't think it'll explode...

If anything, Surrey house prices are rising, not collapsing.

Richmond prices skyrocketed also. They're not going down.

Do you live here in Vancouver?
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:10 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
lame
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:11 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]


that's a 3000sq ft lot in central vancouver. try the same lot in manhattan.. maybe another 1.5million.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918047



BTW, that property is a steal for a developer with cash, I don't see it as a bubble. I live here. I've seen the houses and quality of life here, I don't think you have though.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:12 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
lame
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918746



Where in Canada do you live? Obviously not GVRD/Vancouver or Suburbs?

I live in the Suburbs man. My condo went from 150k to 190k in a few months.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:13 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
The west coast suburbs are the best place in Canada to raise a family.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:20 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]

that's a 3000sq ft lot in central vancouver. try the same lot in manhattan.. maybe another 1.5million.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918047


It's not that central, and it's a tear-down in a really shitty neighbourhood full of other crap shacks just like that one, along with meth labs and junkies for neighbors. It's more NJ than NY.

The lot's not big enough to build anything much bigger on it - certainly not a multi-family unit - the lot's only 30ft wide!

And there's not the number of rich people or lucrative jobs that there is in Manhattan - there's no Wall St., just a bunch of shitty penny stock companies headquartered there (hundreds of which are run out of one lawyer's office), drugs and delusion.

There's also not the number of people period - just in the borough of Manhattan alone there are 1.6 million people vs. roughly 600 thousand for the city of Vancouver proper.

Many economists are predicting China's in a huge bubble and when that blows Vancouver will definitely go down if nothing else takes it down. Canada's most likely going to raise rates by June and who knows what the bond market will do in the meantime as well. The Olympics are over so everyone who was hanging on to sell until after wards is going to list their spec property only to find there aren't millions of people interested in moving there who arent' there already.

In the early 80s BC real estate crashed 50%. It'll happen again.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:22 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
lame



Where in Canada do you live? Obviously not GVRD/Vancouver or Suburbs?

I live in the Suburbs man. My condo went from 150k to 190k in a few months.
 Quoting: RazriN v10.0

i don't live in hongcouver....are you chinese ?
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:23 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
i mean hongkouver
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:26 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
If it's foreign money it can leave as quick as it came.

CMHC is a half-trillion dollar timebomb ready to explode nearly every Canadian bond fund.

The banks are lending to anybody right now.

It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]

that's a 3000sq ft lot in central vancouver. try the same lot in manhattan.. maybe another 1.5million.


It's not that central, and it's a tear-down in a really shitty neighbourhood full of other crap shacks just like that one, along with meth labs and junkies for neighbors. It's more NJ than NY.

The lot's not big enough to build anything much bigger on it - certainly not a multi-family unit - the lot's only 30ft wide!

And there's not the number of rich people or lucrative jobs that there is in Manhattan - there's no Wall St., just a bunch of shitty penny stock companies headquartered there (hundreds of which are run out of one lawyer's office), drugs and delusion.

There's also not the number of people period - just in the borough of Manhattan alone there are 1.6 million people vs. roughly 600 thousand for the city of Vancouver proper.

Many economists are predicting China's in a huge bubble and when that blows Vancouver will definitely go down if nothing else takes it down. Canada's most likely going to raise rates by June and who knows what the bond market will do in the meantime as well. The Olympics are over so everyone who was hanging on to sell until after wards is going to list their spec property only to find there aren't millions of people interested in moving there who arent' there already.

In the early 80s BC real estate crashed 50%. It'll happen again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


speculators fine. if you are buying to live there - at 4% you figure $2000/month to start. how much is it to rent a similar house downtown vancouver?
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:27 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
BTW, that property is a steal for a developer with cash, I don't see it as a bubble. I live here. I've seen the houses and quality of life here, I don't think you have though.
 Quoting: RazriN v10.0


I lived in Vancouver for three years - until just after 9/11. Went to Toronto which is a waaay better city and even though it's in a bubble too, houses go for half what they do in Van.

Lived around Main St. and had a lot of friends around there and further east, so I do know the neighbourhoods. Only in Vancouver do people not think the prices of houses are INSANE.

Yeah, I know the last couple of years the weather's been fairly decent but the amount of rain is just crazy, there's way too many people into every kind of drug going - the drug scene is way too open and it seems people will pop ANYTHING offered to them. Got broken into three times in different places and eventually had enough.

Just look at house/condo prices in Florida - an infinitely more beautiful, desirable place to live than Vancouver. Or Vegas, which is infinitely more fun than Vancouver.

Only Vancouverites are so deluded as to think they live in the best spot on the planet, and well, they already live there! Just watch, as soon as all this cheap credit dries up there's going to be a blowup of epic proportions.

Predicting WHEN is a fool's game and to be honest I underestimated the lengths the Tories would go to to keep housing propped up (via CMHC, MBS purchases, ordering the banks to lend, etc.). But it WILL happen.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:32 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
I believe in the Canadian dollar, and Santa, and the tooth fairy, and Pixies, and Fairies, and garden gnomes. Tinkerbell and I have coffee together often, Winnie the Pooh shows up from time to time.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:35 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
I'll digest all this in a bit, don't ditch this thread 916751, I want to continue this discussion for sure. Gotta hear more about Toronto's bubble and market.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
RazriN v10.0  (OP)

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03/17/2010 09:36 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
lame



Where in Canada do you live? Obviously not GVRD/Vancouver or Suburbs?

I live in the Suburbs man. My condo went from 150k to 190k in a few months.

i don't live in hongcouver....are you chinese ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918746



Yes.
Don't believe anything I say... I lie all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:45 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
It's only a matter of time before the housing market tanks. I'm guessing by mid-summer.

And to any doubters that there's a severe property bubble:
[link to www.realtor.ca]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916751


That link is hilarious. People on housing blogs are saying things like ... hey, that house was on the last episode of "Hoarders". Or, hey, wasn't that house featured in "Deliverance"?

And asking price is like 580K.

wtf
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:49 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
Holy smokes every single post on this thread is by a Canadian.

We will be taking over the entire forum, soon.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:50 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
Toronto still has room to go. Rent vs. own proposition favours own. If you are just speculating, then you are speculating.
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:54 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
Why would it now be! This is our own personal lie to swallow!

Like it or not!
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:54 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
baby
Anonymous Coward
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03/17/2010 09:55 PM
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Re: High Canadian dollar here to stay, economists say
I'll digest all this in a bit, don't ditch this thread 916751, I want to continue this discussion for sure. Gotta hear more about Toronto's bubble and market.
 Quoting: RazriN v10.0


www.greaterfool.ca is a good place to start or [link to whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.com]

Toronto's suburbs are pretty stupid - townhouses in Markham going for 800K that people tell me about but you can still buy so-so houses in Toronto in so-so but not that accessible via public transit for 300-350K.

In Queen West/Parkdale, which is the equivalent to the West side of Main St the houses are still in the 4-600K range, but are much bigger and more solidly built.

[link to www.realtor.ca]

They're still subject to stupid bidding wars though and a lot of the houses are over-priced.

There's also way too many condos being built (that's where Toronto RE gets seriously idiotic). I know several people who fancy themselves as 'investors' who bought to condos a few years back that are only now being completed and are still sitting on them waiting for them to 'appreciate' even more.

One guy I met owns three that he rents out - each for less than it costs him in mortgage and maintenance fees - but is counting on the price going up by even more than what he's losing every month.





GLP