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Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

 
badkarma

User ID: 19481820
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07/10/2012 02:54 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Ah, wet dreams of deluded greek mind!
 Quoting: Macedonian 19186944


bsflag
Give me bad karma.
Nick the Greek
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07/10/2012 05:54 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Best advice for FYRoM...Give up on Macedonism, it has been a disaster! Slavists embarked on a forced programme of Macedonization to make Macedonians out of South-Slavs and to make the Vardar region of South-Serbia appear more Grecian looking, both in style and in the feel of the place, hence the renaming of streets and boulevards, roads and highways to ancient-Greek names and the instalation of street furniture, statues and archways to make FYRoM look and feel close to something found in classical Greece.

The deception cannot mask the fact that the people in FYRoM are Slavic, in the way they walk and the way they talk.

The deception cannot mask the fact that the people of FYRoM speak a Serbo-Bulgarian Satem language.

The deception cannot hide the fact that FYRoM sits on ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian-lands.

Best advice for FYRoM...Give it up! Macedonism has been a disaster.

Macedonia wants to stay Greek, inside the Hellenic realm!
The Macedonian name wants to stay in the Greek domain!
Macedonians want to defend and protect their Hellenic heritage....FYRoM's Slavic population should respect that!
Nick the Greek
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07/11/2012 12:39 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonism in the wrong hands is dangerous...under strict authoritarian regimes.

Macedonism in FYRoM is all too pervasive! it controls the very fabric of social cohesion in that small country...without it, the peoples there would happily revert back to their original Serbo-Bulgarians roots
and ethno-origins.

The controlling factors in bolstering the belief that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are more Macedonian than the modern-Greeks, rests soley on the twin alters of revisionism and pseudo-history.

FYRoM's Serbo-Bulgarian speaking South-Slavic population were sold the Idea that modern-Greeks are not real Greeks but rather titular-Greeks, Greeks in name only, not in substance, a creation of the West...created to cheat the Slavic race from it's real true history and heritage in the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula.

Slavist mind-architects spreading Macedonism taught the simple-minded, simple-hearted peoples of FYRoM to think of the modern-Greeks as foreigners in their own primordial homelands.

Slavist mind-architects spreading Macedonism in FYRoM taught young Slavic children, pupils and students to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

I say again: Macedonism is a dangerous Ideology in the wrong hands.

FYRoM is a small and impoverished South-Slavic statelet geographically positioned in the Central-Southern Balkans, populated by NoN-Greeks...No Way for them to acquire the Macedonian name they covet so much to describe themselves, their new Slavic country, their nationality, language and ethnicity!

Why ?

Because Greeks are smart...they know a [[Serb][Bulgar]] Slav when they see one and Macedonians were No Slavs!

Macedonism taught the Slavs of FYROM to abuse Western sympathy and Western freedoms. They miscalculated though, and now they are paying the price for that miscalculation. As if any Western democracy would recognize a Slavic country as Macedonia, given that the Slavs as a peoples contributed next to nothing towards those core democratic values and ideals the West holds dear.

FYRoM cannot be recognized as Macedonia and it's peoples Macedonians on the basis, they are Not! they are South-Slavs
and Macedonians have always been Greeks!
Nick the Greek
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07/11/2012 06:02 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
I think the confusion lay in the way FYRoM's Slavs wish to use an ancient-Greek regional-Identity [Macedonian] as a National Identity. The confusion gets worse when they claim
Macedonian as an ethnic-racial racial Identity unique to themselves. It is the same thing as claiming Spartan to be an ethnic and racial Identity when it is all but given, well known that Spartans and Macedonians have common roots and come from the same Dorian-Greek stock, which simply makes a mockery of FYRoM's claim they are Macedonian.

Macedonism in FYRoM has proven to be a disaster. Macedonism in the wrong hands is dangerous under strict authoritarian regimes, such as the current regime prevailing in FYRoM right now! Greeks have right to defend and protect their National history and cultural heritage from the likes of FYRoM's brainwashed and Indoctrinated South-Slavs chasing an Identity that does not belong to Slavdom in any real earthly or natural sense.

Two John Smiths could live in peace, side by side next door to each other, but if one John Smith decides to usurp the Identity of the other one...that would be tantamount to Identity theft! in FYRoM's case, cultural thievery.

It has to be said: FYRoM is better served aborting Macedonism...this now outdated Slavist based expansionist Ideology has proven to be a total disaster for them.

Macedonians have always been Greeks...It says so in any credible encyclopaedia which depicts and Illustrates the demographic history of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic people...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs cannot use this Identity for themselves, or for their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity on the basis they would be lying to themselves, and their children who have a right to learn about their real true Slavic heritage in the Haemus instead of the fabricated one Slavist revisionist pseudo-historians created for them.
Nick the Greek
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07/12/2012 03:20 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Where FYRoM is situated right now is not in Macedonia, I mean, not in real or proper ancient-Macedonia...the ancient-Kingdom. FYRoM is actually situated on ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands, above it to the North was where ancient-Pannonia could be found and to the West of FYRoM, Illyria, where the ancient-Illyrians dwelt. Only to the South and East of FYRoM is where real and proper ancient-Macedonian land can be found, and if one continues further East, the ancient-lands of Thrace can be found.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are more Paeonians and Dardanians than they are Macedonians...on the basis of ancient-geography, evidenced in the above observation. So why did they elect to go for a Macedonian-Identity they have no real earthly or natural connections towards.

It's the land of Macedonia they covet, moreso than just the name but they cannot have one without the other, hence the conditioning of minds and the ethnic-Manipulations dispensed through the medium of Macedonism...a Slavist based Ideology designed to make Macedonians out of South-Slavs in order they capture by stealth or by military means, Greeces Northern teritories and present them to Slavdom, to place ancient-Macedonian lands in the Slavic camp.

Macedonism has been exposed for what it is...an outdated Slavist expansionist Ideology that can be traced back directly to the revival of Bulgaria and the advent of the Bulgarian Exarchate. No need to dwell further on this point as it is perfectly understood that before the lead-up and establishment of the Bulgarian-Exarchate there was no Macedonism, no desire on Slavdoms behalf to make Bulgarian Slavs ethnic-Macedonians.

But now that it has taken root, Macedonism in FYRoM has instilled in the minds South-Slavs collective memories of an ancient-past. Macedonism in FYRoM has ensured that young Slavic children, pupils and students profess to having developed an awareness, a collective consciousness rooted in classical antiquity. They see themselves as Macedonians and see ancient-Macedonians as Slavs, this a by-product Slavists did not properly cater for, testament to the destructive nature of Macedonism, an Ideology that seeks to change the demographic in the Haemus peninsula by changing Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.

FYRoM's wise men could rectify the situation right now...they could abandon Macedonism right now before it destroys their fledgling country completely. FYRoM's political elite could look at Slavic-culture and Greek-culture and combine the best from both of them. They could inform their young people that they have connections to Greek-Macedonian culture and the Rum-Millet (Ottoman Christian Identity), and Byzantine Slavic culture which developed the Cyrillic alphabet.

The Greek position is not to exclude FYRoM from their common Byzantine historical past, this is in dark contrast to FYRoM's position which seeks to keep Greeks out of their Slavist developed Macedonian culture. They do not want Greeks to be near or part of their Slavist orientated Macedonian culture. They claim that Greeks were separate from Macedonians contrary to the archeological evidence, evidence which is found in abundance, in a region steeped in ancient-Greek history.

I say, lets get real...Macedonism died a death the day the International academic-community threw the gauntlet down to challenge global politicians who were willing to see the establishment of a NoN-Greek Macedonian Nation, the politicians lost, FYRoM lost, and Macedonism died a death, that was 4 years ago.

FYRoM does have a Macedonian-Identity...which has nothing to do with Alexander the Great or the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, lets start from here and see where this leads us!
Nick the Greek
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07/13/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Rule of Thumb: You are what you speak...true, in most cases!

Most people speak English, but not all of them are Englishmen in the native sense of the word, the rule still applies though, because the mother-language ascends the adopted language...until assimilation kicks in, usually around the 8th generation or approximately 200 years.

To Test that Rule:

1...Macedonians are Greeks because they speak Greek...true, no conflicts here!

2...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Serbo-Bulgarians because they speak Serbo-Bulgarian...true, no conflicts here!

To break that Rule:

1...FYRoM's language is innapropriately misnamed to Macedonian, still, it does not alter the fact that they are Serbo-Bulgarians, on the basis of that first Rule...You are what you speak!

2...FYRoM's language is a Satem Slavic language which bolsters the vigor of the first Rule...You are what you speak.

The rule is a robust one...it is applicable to FYRoM which in turn makes it applicable in most cases.

Slavs speak Slavic, Celts speak Celtic, Latins speak Latin,
Germanics speak German and Hellenes speak Hellenic.

Macedonians have always been integral to the Hellenic Collective of peoples!
Nick the Greek
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07/13/2012 04:47 PM
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Historian scholars tell us, the Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs...thats what it says in all the credible Encyclopaedias of the world also. The Demographic history of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula depicts and Illustrates the Macedonians as a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples, who along with the Spartans were a branch of the Dorian-Greeks.

Dorians, Aeolians, Achaeans and Ionians formed the root races in antiquity from which the Hellenic tribes formed.

Did the Slavs of FYRoM really believe they could change the Demographics of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula on the basis of Macedonism...an outdated Slavist expansionist Ideology that seeks to change Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.

Slavist revisionist pseudo-historians scripted FYRoM a history that was evidently so crude and so crass, it turned the academic world against them. Alienating the Greeks was bad enough but to alienate the International academic community was likened to the straw that finally broke the Camels back. The academic world turned their backs on FYRoM.

No credible classicist-historian supports FYRoM's historical narrative, not one. No credible politician supports them either, on the basis, the academic fraternity reject pseudo-historical revisionism as propaganda!

FYRoM's best years were spent trying to make the Greeks look bad but in the event, they made themselves look even worse...to the point where FYRoM is now shunned, shoved up a siding, kept at arms length, at a distance until the people there learn to respect the real history of the peninsula they reside on.

The Haemus peninsula is the place that spawned Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture...It is the primordial homeland of the Greek-Hellenic peoples, FYRoM does not have the right to rubbish their history.

Macedonians are Greeks, they have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...the ancient-Kingdom!

Did the Slavs of FYRoM really believe they could change the demographics of the Haemus by making the Macedonians Slavic?
Nick the Greek
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07/14/2012 05:30 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Gullible and easily manipulated, they were taught in their childhood to use a different name to describe themselves...I mean, different from the one their forefathers used to describe themselves.

From Bugari of old, to Makedonci...this became their name, their ethnic-racial name and their cultural-linguistic name.

From 1944 onwards, the Bulgarian speaking South-Slavs from the old-Yugoslavia had their language Serbianized...Five Serbian letters were Introduced into their Cyrillic alphabet with a strategem to distant it from proper-Bulgarian. Slavist philologists called this new Serbianized-Bulgarian language Macedonian.

From 1945 onwards, the now Macedonian speaking South-Slavs from the old-Yugoslavia had their lands
Macedonized...From Vardar Banovina, the province of South-Serbia took-on a new name, it bacme the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Slavist mind-architects furnished and accomodated the Bulgarian speaking South-Slavs from the old-Yugoslavia with a new country and a new language, Macedonia and Macedonian respectively.

From 1991 onwards, the Socialist Republic of Macedonia dropped the Socialist part from their name and elected to enter onto the world stage as simply Republic of Macedonia...Macedonian speaking Macedonians from Macedonia, this is how they described themselves ???

I No blame them...It is not their fault they proudly describe themselves as Macedonians, afterall, they were raised that way from since 1944.

Gullible and easily manipulated...It transpired that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs were mischievously taught to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

From November 2004 onwards...the American administration of GW Bush recognized FYRoM as RoM, as the Republic of Macedonia on the issuance of poor, substandard and ill thought-out advice which prompted other countries around the world to do the same. Based on that poor, substandard, ill thought-out advice...that American administration of GW Bush left Europe with a legacy which remains as yet, still unresolved.

How can it be resolved when Serbo-Bulgarians from the old-Yugoslavia think of themselves as Macedonians. Even though they speak a Serbianized-Bulgarian language, they think of it as Macedonian because they were taught to do that.

How can it be resolved when Serbo-Bulgarian speaking South-Slavs from the Vardar region of South-Serbia think of themselves as Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia because they were taught to do that from since 1945.

The Name Dispute between FYRoM and Greece can never be resolved...this is the reality of it!

So the two peoples, both Greeks and Slavs remain enstranged until it is explained thoroughly to both of them, the importance the Macedonian Name has played with the histories associated with it in terra-forming the demographic landscape on the Haemus peninsula and beyond.
Nick the Greek
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07/14/2012 11:23 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonians have always been Greeks...changing them
from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs is changing the demographic in the Haemus, a region of the world that has long made the distinction between the various native Greek tribes from the various exogenous Slavic tribes.

Changing the demographics of the Balkans, a place which has often been described as a powder-keg awaiting a spark, is a very serious matter...tantamount to War mongering!

I say again: Macedonians have always been Greeks, it says so in all the credible encyclopaedias that depict and Illustrate the demographic history of the Haemus peninsula.

And who actually benefits from this change...???

FYRoM exists, not through the self-determination of its own peoples, but through the political designs of an ages old Slavist Ideology...a Makedonist doctrine which from the outset, set-out to change the demographic in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula.

FYRoM's disparate populace would happily revert back to their Serbian and Bulgarian roots and ethno-origins but for that Makedonist Ideology, which for all intents and purposes is found driven by those hardened Slavist mind-architects with expansion in mind. FYRoM would not exist but for those Slavists who demand it...this alone, explains why FYRoM remains an anomaly, a political and economic failure!

Macedonism...an expansionist Slavist Ideology who's doctrine set-out to make Macedonians out of Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs is an attempt to change the demographic in the Haemus peninsula, the primordial homeland of the Greek-Hellenic peoples from since Millenia!
Nick the Greek
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07/15/2012 05:43 AM
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The average FYRoM ex-Yugoslav cannot bring himself round to admit that Alexander the Great was the Greek King of Macedon, nor can his counter-part in the diaspora. For them to do that, to admit that the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity were a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples would kill their Makedonist Ideological Indoctrination stone dead.

Macedonism in FYRoM has led to all references connecting Macedonians to Hellenism erased, and the children there learn about Slavic speaking Macedonians during the times of King Philip of Macedon.

The average FYRoM ex-Yugoslav cannot understand why the Greeks do not accept them as Macedonians or their new Slavic country as Macedonia.

What a state of affairs eh! It could only happen in the Balkans, where South-Slavic people attempt to pass themselves off as Macedonians, even though their ancestors settled the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula at the 6th Century AD, >36 generations after the death of Alexander the Great.

The average FYRoM ex-Yugoslav cannot bring himself round to admit that he speaks a Serbianized-Bulgarian language, just five Serbian letters short from being proper Bulgarian. For
him, his language is Makedonski, Macedonian in translation, the language spoken in antiquity by the ancient-Macedonians.

The average FYRoM ex-Yugoslav cannot understand why it is wrong to erect statues of ancient-Greek hero's in Skopje, where Alexander the Great could be found plinthed 22 meters high at the center of their captal city, a place he never actually visited and a place which was never a part of his ancient-Kingdom of Macedon.

There are lots of things the average FYRoM ex-Yugoslav does not understand, he is gullible, simple-minded and easily led, that is why he is manipulated and conditioned to think of himself as Macedonian and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs...It is called Macedonism, an outdated Slavist based expansionist Ideology which managed to migrate across 4 previous Ideologies from since the days of Imperialism, Pan-Slavism, Communism and finally now, Capitalism.

Makedonists in FYRoM follow an Ideology first started by Slavist mind-architects, which envisioned Slavdom expanding to the Northern shores of the Aegean sea and beyond. From since the revival of Bulgaria, Slavists have continued to plot and to scheme various ways to take Macedonia away from the Greeks in order to place it into the Slavic camp. FYRoM is just the latest scheme in a long line of previous failures!

Macedonism in FYRoM has been a total disaster...It has converted FYRoM into a Theme-Park of a country where various Greco-Bulgarian styles conflict a mis-match of cultures. Sighting grand archways, gigantic statues and other classicist street furniture near an Ottoman minaret back-drop is found wanting and distasteful, incompatible and inconsistant with the final image FYRoM ultimately wanted to portray to the world.

Macedonia wants to stay Greek and the Macedonian name wants to stay in the Greek domain...Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage, not in a Theme-Park of a country full of brainwashed and Indoctrinated South-Slavs walking the streets thinking of themselves as Macedonians and ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.
Nick the Greek
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07/15/2012 02:43 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

Can a Makedonist change that...I don't think so!

Can Macedonism change that...I don't think so!

For all their efforts and their want for trying, FYRoM's Slavists have changed Nothing!

Macedonians are as Greek today as they were back in the days of King-Karanus!
[link to alexandre-le-grand.louvre.fr]

Do the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM really believe they can change the demographic of the Balkans on the basis of Macedonism...an outdated Slavist based Ideology founded on expansionism!

Macedonism has revulsed not only the Greeks, but the International academic community and the most reputable and distinguished prestigious Museums of the world.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs Ignore these things but to their detriment only, they can Ignore Greeks, classicist-scholars and prestigious Museums but they cannot Ignore the UN, EU, USA, NATO and an International community that keeps them at arms length, at a distance until the people there start to understand and respect more, the history of the place they reside.

The Haemus peninsula spawned Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture, that place is the primordial homelands of the Greeks from since Millenia.

Macedonians are Greeks...changing them from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs serves only the Makedonists, Slavists by any other name.
Nick the Greek
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07/16/2012 12:59 PM
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Greeks do share something with their Slavonic neighbours...(i) a Christian-Orthodox Religion and (ii) a Byzantine tradition stretching back to the baptism of the first Slavonic tribes that settled the Greco-Roman world north of Macedonia. Todays Slavs must recognize that Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs.

Todays Slavs must recognize that todays Greeks are the closest modern humans to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity...fraternally, ethnically, racially, culturally and linguistically! Todays Greeks connect to the ancient-Macedonians in ways other peoples from the Haemus do not!

Todays Slavs must recognize that Macedonians are Greeks, that they have always been Greeks and that Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...in the ancient-Kingdom.

Todays Slavs must recognize that changing them from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs is an insult to Greeks, it is tantamount to changing the demographic of the Haemus peninsula, homeland of the Greeks from since Millenia!

The worst crime against Hellenism is being committed right now in the modern era, by a South-Slavic peoples wanting to erase the Greekness of the Macedonians, to eradicate the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity in order to make it Slavic.

Todays Slavs must recognize that changing the demographic of the Balkans is a very serious matter...tantamount to War-mongering!

Greeks share alot with our Slavonic neighbours but we shall stop short from sharing our ancestral legacy with them on the basis, Slavs settled the Greco-Roman world long after the death of Alexander the Great.

From the 6th Century AD onwards...Greeks and Slavs share a common history in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, both the good parts and the bad parts.

Before the 6th Century AD, Greeks shared a history with the Germanic tribes, the Goths, both Visi and Ostro and before them, with the Huns, and before them with the Celtic tribes...Greeks recorded all of their Interactions with the peoples they came into contact with. Slavs were recorded in the usual manner.

Greeks cannot permit a South-Slavic peoples to adopt or usurp an ancient-archaic Greek-Hellenic regional-tribal
name for their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity...we simply cannot do that on the basis we way too proud of our Hellenic roots and cultural heritage.
Nick the Greek
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07/16/2012 03:44 PM
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Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, "the Purple-born" September 2, 905 – November 9, 959...was the fourth Emperor of the Macedonian dynasty of the Byzantine Empire, reigning from 913 to 959. He was the son of the emperor Leo VI and his fourth wife Zoe Karbonopsina, and the nephew of his predecessor, the emperor Alexander.

[link to books.google.at] De Administrando Imperio von Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (Emperor of the East.

De Administrando Imperio...transliterates to "On the Governance of the Empire" this is the Latin title of a Greek works written by the 10th-century Eastern Roman Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus.

The Greek title of the works is..."For his own son Romanos" The work is a domestic-foreign policy advisory manual for Constantine's son and successor, the Emperor Romanos II.

These works are considered fundamental in the intepretation of history as well as of the ethnogenesis of the Southern Slavs, in particular, of the Croats and Serbs, as well as their ethnic territories.

The Byzantine chronicles mention:

1...Of the Pechenegs and the Russians, Chapter 2

2...Of the Pechenegs and the Bulgarians, Chapter 5

3...Of the coming of the Russians in 'monoxyla' from Russia to Constantinople, Chapter 9

4...Of the Croats and the country they now dwell in, Chapter 31

5...Of the Serbs and the country they now dwell in, Chapter 32

6...Of the Zachlumi (Serbs) and the country they now dwell in, Chapter 33

7...Of the Terbouniotes and Kanalites (Serbs) and the country they now dwell in, Chapter 34

8...Of the Pagani, also called Arentani (Serbs), and the country they now dwell in, Chapter 36

9...Of the country of Moravia, Chapter 41

10...He who enquires how the Slavs were put in servitude and subjection to the church of Patras, Chapter 49

11...Of the Slavs in the province of Peloponnesus, the Milingoi and Ezeritai, Chapter 50

Constantine VII was a Scholar of an Emperor...he put pen to paper depicting and Illustrating the history of the Byzantine Eastern-Roman Empire during his reign. From his works we learn about the Slavs and how it came to be, they lived amongst the Greco-Romans.
Nick the Greek
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07/17/2012 02:38 AM
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Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...the ancient-Kingdom! With credentials like this, it kind of makes a mockery out of FYRoM's claim that Slavic speaking South-Slavs from Serbo-Bulgarian stock are more Macedonian than the Greeks.

Nowhere but in FYRoM do they equate Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity with Slavic speaking Serbo-Bulgarians!

Greeks live next to primitive, brainwashed and Indoctrinated South-Slavic peoples who are hell-bent in wanting to change the demographics of the Haemus peninsula...they want to change Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs but for Greek Objections!

Greeks cannot stop South-Slavs using the Macedonian name for regional-geographic Identity. Greeks cannot permit South-Slavs to take the Macedonian name away from them in order that they, Serbo-Bulgarians could use it to describe their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity!
Nick the Greek
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07/17/2012 02:40 PM
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Historically, the name Macedonia refers to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon located in Northern-Greece. The region boasts a substantial part of Greek teritory, it is the place where Alexander the Great was born.

Geographically, the term Macedonia nowadays, refers to a much broader geographic-region which covers Northern-Greece (51%) then FYRoM (39%) then Bulgaria (9%) and finally Albania (1%).

Some 2.5 Million Greek citizens currently live in the Greek part of Macedonia, within the original boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon.

FYRoM's citizens by enlarge, live outside of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon but insist on using the name to describe themselves, their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity much to the annoyance of the Greeks.

The name dispute between FYRoM and Greece is also a dispute between cultures and civilizations, Slavdom and Hellenism, the former attempting to diminish the influence of the latter by changing the demographic of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula. Slavdom works to erase the host-culture from the Haemus by making Macedonians out of South-Slavs, in essence, they attempt to change Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.

Makedonism...an expansionist Slavist Ideology spawned from the revival-resurrection of Bulgaria and the advent of the Bulgarian Exarchate, started a seperation process in the Balkans which segregated Patriarchists from Exarchists.

Makedonist Ideology started from since the Imperialist era and migrated over to the Pan-Slavist era, and then onward transmitted over to the Communist era, finally making the migration over to the modern-era, todays Capitalist free-market era.

The biggest impetus to Makedonism can be traced back to WWII when the Croat, Josip Broz Tito separated an area known as Vardar Banovina from South-Serbia and granted it Republic status inside a federal Yugoslavia. Under the name Socialist Republic of Macedonia, Tito was promoting Makedonism, the doctrine of nurturing a separate Macedonian Nation, his way and his desire to gain access to the Aegean Sea for Slavdom, by cultivating the Idea of reunification of all those parts which constituted geographic Macedonian territories.

The emergence of FYRoM in 1991, as an Independent NoN-Greek Macedonian Nation, can be viewed within the context of a continuation of the Slavic desire to take Macedonian lands away from the Greeks. FYRoM is merely the victim and a by-product of Makedonism, an outdated Slavist based expansionist Ideology which somehow ventured to reactivate during the disintigration and break-up of the old-Yugoslavia. Slavists found opportunity to go for a preemptive strike at taking not just the Macedonian name away from the Greeks but the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon also.
Nick the Greek
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07/17/2012 05:05 PM
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Macedonians can only ever be Greeks on the basis, the name itself was spawned from Greek speakers.

Greek speaking Hellenic peoples were the initiators, the creators of the Macedonian name, and they took that name everywhere they went.

Rule of Thumb: You know when a name is yours when you take it with you.

The best demonstration of Greek ownership over the Macedonian name can be traced back to the Byzantine-Greeks who took the Macedonian name away from it's original location and placed it in Thrace. They used the Macedonian name to name a military district they set-up to Theme-Macedonia in order to protect Macedonian population from Slavic incursions, excruciations and attacks.

I say again: You know when a name is yours when you take it with you...like the Europeans did, when they took their old-European names to the New-World...the Americas!

French names are distinct from English names and Spanish names are distinct from Germanic names and Dutch names cannot be confused with any other names because the distinction is universal...only fools attempt to take the name of another peoples and then proceed to apply that name to themselves in an ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic setting in the hope and expectaion that nobody would notice.

Greek names and Greek place names are unique only to Greeks,
the distinction is universal...only fools would attempt to take a Greek-Hellenic name to describe themselves, their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity in the hope and expectation that nobody would notice...or if they did notice they would be unsympathetic to the Greeks and allow the usurper to take it.

The Macedonian name is a unique Greek-Hellenic regional-tribal name...only Greeks have right to use it in the correct and proper fashion!
Nick the Greek
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Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

The sooner this is (i) understood (ii) recognized and (iii) acknowledged...the sooner FYRoM and Greece could normalize relations at all levels.

Failure to comply leaves FYRoM shoved-up a siding, kept at arms length, at a distance from the Euro-Atlantic economic and security structures it says it aspires to join.

FYRoM's first-fall from grace can be traced back directly, to this: [link to www.youtube.com] the exact moment when Europeans were treated to a televised event which saw a Pakistani-Hunza Prince arrive at Skopje airport on a Turkish jet and welcomed by a FYRoM supposed European population, which prostated itself in great numbers and in humility, and in submission and adoration of a Pakistani-Prince who is said to be a descendant of Alexander the Great...at least in FYRoM's pseudo-scriptures this is how it reads.

People were turned-off by this televized event and FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs lost something in the eyes of Europeans.

FYRoM's second-fall from grace can be traced back to this moment: [link to www.youtube.com] when again, in a National televized production, FYRoM's population was treated to watching God speak to them directly...God tells them they descend from the Makedonoids, the first white people on earth from whence the White race sprang!
The Truth
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New York Times - June 2009

Nikos Dimou - Greek writer:

“.....We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Finlay, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover
The Truth
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Why don't your history books ever mention George Finlay, a Scot who more than anyone defined your modern Greek nation and identity. He is the man that invented your so called Hellenic continuum, from Ancient to present. He gave modern Greece legitimacy by redefining the missing links, namely The East Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman periods became essentially Greek. It seems that only 100 years before Tito apparently made us Macedonians, the Euro powers made you Greeks when all the while you thought you where either Albanians or Romans and spoke Romanoi!

Below are a few extracts from an auto on Mr. Finlay learn your real history first then come back and preach to us about ours!

In the 18th century, a new conception of Greece, as the birthplace of “Western
Civilization,” emerged. This movement, “Hellenism,” was rooted in the romantic nationalisms of Britain, France and Germany, which sought cultural and biological ties to ancient Greece. German university seminars were organized in order to teach the history of Greece as that of the “childhood of Europe”. In time, Western European intellectuals, and the Greeks they were beginning to educate in their universities, came to wonder why Greece’s historical legacy had contributed to the flourishing of Britain, France, and Germany, rather than Greece itself.

Early travelers rarely gave much notice to the actual inhabitants of the country. When they did, their thoughts were almost uniformly dismissive. They contrasted the architectural achievements of ancient Athens to the constructions of the present day. The ancient ruins, one wrote, “still retain their grandeur and grace, and towering from amidst…the miserable mansions of barbarians, present a grand, but melancholy spectacle.” The local people, travelers complained, were hardly Greeks at all; the fact that most described themselves as “Romans” who spoke a language they referred to as “Romanoi” or Albanians hardly helped. British travelers mocked inhabitants’ ignorance of classical Greek (which was standard in British school curricula), the ostensible depravity of the Orthodox church, and the military incapacity of the Greeks. Late 18th and early 19th century travelers to Greece concluded that “the Greeks, if Greeks they could be called, were unworthy of their ancestors, whose true descendants were to be found in the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge.”

In 1821, Greece erupted in rebellion. While the War of Independence was not fought to win the country’s readmission to “the West,” Western intellectuals took up the
cause in that spirit. Many even joined the fight. From Germany and elsewhere on the Continent, hundreds of students poured south to help assist the uprising. Britain also contributed a coterie of adventurers to the cause. Lord Byron took part, as did Finlay. Unlike the Germans, the British contingent did not cultivate fantasies of classical Athens’ instant resurrection. Nevertheless, they shared with the Continental enthusiasts, in contrast to the antiquarian prejudices of Hellenism, a “Philhellenism” concerned with the uplift of Greece in the present. In the capitals of Western Europe, meanwhile, utilitarian thinkers were plotting a future for Greece divorced from its
history and culture entirely; they sought to bring about a “Greek revival.”

The Russian writer Alexander Pushkin fired the first salvo, mocking Western European intellectuals for their naiveté. “That all the enlightened people of
Europe drivel about Greece is inexcusable childishness,” he wrote. They had “drummed Themistocles and Pericles into us, and we think that the same people, who consist of robbers and shopkeepers, are the rightful descendants and heirs of their schoolhouse glory.” The criticism struck home; in 1828 Friedrich Thiersch delivered a lecture at the University of Berlin on the occupying every German Philhellene’s mind: “How Far Away is the Reappearance of the Greatness of Greek Science and Education on the Stage of Europe?” Humboldt was less optimistic. He no longer saw any evidence that the Greeks were working in the traditions of their
forefathers; the destruction of their ancient constitution, their old communities, and centuries of intermixture with foreign races had intervened.

Finlay went beyond the disappointment of his fellow Philhellenes and toward a more pragmatic approach to “Westernization,” Finlay redefined the way Greek history was written. He eschewed the direct juxtaposition of classical and modern Greece.

Post-independence Greece failed, however, to live up to high hopes and expectations of these groups. Philhellenes quit the country in droves as daily life proved chronically unstable. To the surprise of these mostly liberal men, Greece emerged neither democratic nor independent, but was ruled by the interests of the three Great Powers – Russia, Britain, and France – which had helped it achieve independence. The powers curtailed Greek territory, to maintain the Ottoman Empire as a buffer between Russia and the Mediterranean, and placed a compliant
Bavarian on the Greek throne.

The Bavarians’ idealization of ancient Greece was evident from the moment King Otto set foot in his new kingdom; in celebration, an old Ottoman mosque was retrofitted with a column “from the Treasury of Atreus”. When Otto stepped beneath it, the Bavarians believed, “he entered on the heritage of Atreus’ son Agamemnon.” The educational system was reformed to emphasize elements of the classical past; instructors attempted to instill a version of the Greek language “purified” of post-classical accretions. Meanwhile, “ancient names were resurrected or devised for the coinage, for officers of state, for ranks in the army and navy, for the law.

The streets of Athens were named after the famous and obscure men of antiquity.” The selection of Athens as the new capital was itself significant, for more prosperous and centrally located cities were passed up for one associated “with the glories of the Periclean age.” Accordingly, the Bavarians moved to sweep away remnants of Athens’ Byzantine and Ottoman past – and reconstruct classical monuments, often with an eye toward an idealized, rather than accurate, understanding of Greek architecture
Nick the Greek
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New York Times - June 2009

Nikos Dimou - Greek writer:

“.....We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Finlay, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover
 Quoting: The Truth 1566704

Nikos Dimou is a good writer with emphasis on writer...that is all that he does!
[link to www.ndimou.gr]

Nikos Dimou is neither historian nor anthropologist, nor demographer or ethnographer...he simply writes and he wrote something to grab attention!

Those words of his, do not negate or diminish the fact that todays modern-Greeks are the closest modern humans to the ancient-Greeks...Macedonians included.
Nick the Greek
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07/19/2012 12:23 PM
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1...Why don't your history books ever mention George Finlay, a Scot who more than anyone defined your modern Greek nation and identity.

2...He is the man that invented your so called Hellenic continuum, from Ancient to present.

3...He gave modern Greece legitimacy by redefining the missing links, namely The East Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman periods became essentially Greek.

4...It seems that only 100 years before Tito apparently made us Macedonians, the Euro powers made you Greeks when all the while you thought you where either Albanians or Romans and spoke Romanoi!

 Quoting: The Truth 1566704

1...George Finlay did that! I thought you guys said it was the Germans, then the English and then the French. Now, according to you, it's the Scots that created the modern-Greeks!

2...Really, he did that ?

3...George was just one of many learned people who connected
Greeks to the Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire.

4...So now, it's the European Powers that created the modern-Greeks. George Finlay was under the control of the European Powers, right!

Makedonism in FYRoM is dangerous in the wrong hands!

It teaches Slavic children, that todays Greeks are not real Greeks but a creation of the West, created to cheat the Slavonic race from its real history and heritage in the Balkans...which they equate to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Greek live next to primitive, Makedonist Indoctrinated South-Slavs...bred for purpose and hell bent on changing the demographic of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, the place which spawned Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture.
Nick the Greek
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07/19/2012 12:43 PM
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Below are a few extracts from an auto on Mr. Finlay learn your real history first then come back and preach to us about ours!

In the 18th century, a new conception of Greece, as the birthplace of “Western Civilization,” emerged. This movement, “Hellenism,” was rooted in the romantic nationalisms of Britain, France and Germany, which sought cultural and biological ties to ancient Greece. German university seminars were organized in order to teach the history of Greece as that of the “childhood of Europe”. In time, Western European intellectuals, and the Greeks they were beginning to educate in their universities, came to wonder why Greece’s historical legacy had contributed to the flourishing of Britain, France, and Germany, rather than Greece itself.

Early travelers rarely gave much notice to the actual inhabitants of the country. When they did, their thoughts were almost uniformly dismissive. They contrasted the architectural achievements of ancient Athens to the constructions of the present day. The ancient ruins, one wrote, “still retain their grandeur and grace, and towering from amidst…the miserable mansions of barbarians, present a grand, but melancholy spectacle.” The local people, travelers complained, were hardly Greeks at all; the fact that most described themselves as “Romans” who spoke a language they referred to as “Romanoi” or Albanians hardly helped. British travelers mocked inhabitants’ ignorance of classical Greek (which was standard in British school curricula), the ostensible depravity of the Orthodox church, and the military incapacity of the Greeks. Late 18th and early 19th century travelers to Greece concluded that “the Greeks, if Greeks they could be called, were unworthy of their ancestors, whose true descendants were to be found in the colleges of Oxford and Cambridge.”

In 1821, Greece erupted in rebellion. While the War of Independence was not fought to win the country’s readmission to “the West,” Western intellectuals took up the
cause in that spirit. Many even joined the fight. From Germany and elsewhere on the Continent, hundreds of students poured south to help assist the uprising. Britain also contributed a coterie of adventurers to the cause. Lord Byron took part, as did Finlay. Unlike the Germans, the British contingent did not cultivate fantasies of classical Athens’ instant resurrection. Nevertheless, they shared with the Continental enthusiasts, in contrast to the antiquarian prejudices of Hellenism, a “Philhellenism” concerned with the uplift of Greece in the present. In the capitals of Western Europe, meanwhile, utilitarian thinkers were plotting a future for Greece divorced from its
history and culture entirely; they sought to bring about a “Greek revival.”

The Russian writer Alexander Pushkin fired the first salvo, mocking Western European intellectuals for their naiveté. “That all the enlightened people of
Europe drivel about Greece is inexcusable childishness,” he wrote. They had “drummed Themistocles and Pericles into us, and we think that the same people, who consist of robbers and shopkeepers, are the rightful descendants and heirs of their schoolhouse glory.” The criticism struck home; in 1828 Friedrich Thiersch delivered a lecture at the University of Berlin on the occupying every German Philhellene’s mind: “How Far Away is the Reappearance of the Greatness of Greek Science and Education on the Stage of Europe?” Humboldt was less optimistic. He no longer saw any evidence that the Greeks were working in the traditions of their
forefathers; the destruction of their ancient constitution, their old communities, and centuries of intermixture with foreign races had intervened.

Finlay went beyond the disappointment of his fellow Philhellenes and toward a more pragmatic approach to “Westernization,” Finlay redefined the way Greek history was written. He eschewed the direct juxtaposition of classical and modern Greece.

Post-independence Greece failed, however, to live up to high hopes and expectations of these groups. Philhellenes quit the country in droves as daily life proved chronically unstable. To the surprise of these mostly liberal men, Greece emerged neither democratic nor independent, but was ruled by the interests of the three Great Powers – Russia, Britain, and France – which had helped it achieve independence. The powers curtailed Greek territory, to maintain the Ottoman Empire as a buffer between Russia and the Mediterranean, and placed a compliant
Bavarian on the Greek throne.

The Bavarians’ idealization of ancient Greece was evident from the moment King Otto set foot in his new kingdom; in celebration, an old Ottoman mosque was retrofitted with a column “from the Treasury of Atreus”. When Otto stepped beneath it, the Bavarians believed, “he entered on the heritage of Atreus’ son Agamemnon.” The educational system was reformed to emphasize elements of the classical past; instructors attempted to instill a version of the Greek language “purified” of post-classical accretions. Meanwhile, “ancient names were resurrected or devised for the coinage, for officers of state, for ranks in the army and navy, for the law.

The streets of Athens were named after the famous and obscure men of antiquity.” The selection of Athens as the new capital was itself significant, for more prosperous and centrally located cities were passed up for one associated “with the glories of the Periclean age.” Accordingly, the Bavarians moved to sweep away remnants of Athens’ Byzantine and Ottoman past – and reconstruct classical monuments, often with an eye toward an idealized, rather than accurate, understanding of Greek architecture
 Quoting: The Truth 1566704

In fact it was Constantine Paparrigopoulos...who is considered to be the founder of modern-Greek historiography. He analysed Greek history from ancient-times to the present as a continuous history in his multi-volume History of the Greek Nation. He is also known for his original research in Byzantine history, as well as in other fields of Greek studies. He accomplished his studies in Odessa as a bursar of the Tsar Alexander.

Paparrigopoulos is considered the "national" historian of modern Greece. In his History of the Greek Nation, he regarded the history of Greece from the ancient years till nowadays as a unity, insisting on the continuity of the Greek nation. At the same time he promoted the importance of the Byzantine Empire and of the Byzantine history in general.
Nick the Greek
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07/19/2012 12:57 PM
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For our lowly-educated, simple-minded, gullible South-Slavic neighbours...I give you a short-sharp history lesson On-line, on how it came to be that Greece exists today as an Independant Nation of Hellenes, proud Hellenes who have sworn to defend and protect their history and heritage from
the likes of Muslim-Turanids and Makedonist-Slavists, who are hell-bent on wanting to change the demographics of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, the primordial homelands of the Greek-Hellenic peoples from since Millenia.

The 1821-32 rebellion of Greeks within the Ottoman Empire resulted in the establishment of an independent kingdom of Greece. The rebellion originated in the activities of the Philikí Etaireía ("Friendly Brotherhood"), a patriotic conspiracy founded in Odessa (now in Ukraine) in 1814. By that time the desire for some form of independence was common among Greeks of all classes whose Hellenism, or sense of Greek nationality, had long been fostered by the Greek Orthodox Church, by the survival of the Greek language and by the administrative arrangements of the Ottoman Empire. Greeks' economic progress and the impact of Western revolutionary ideas further intensified Hellenism.

The revolt began in March 1821 when Alexandros Ypsilantis, the leader of the Etairists, crossed the Prut River into Turkish-held Moldavia with a small force of troops. Ypsilantis was soon defeated by the Turks, but in the meantime, on Mar. 25, 1821, (the traditional date of Greek independence), sporadic revolts against Turkish rule had broken out in the Peloponnese, in Greece north of the Gulf of Corinth, and on several islands. Within a year the rebels had gained control of the Peloponnese, and in January 1822 they declared the independence of Greece. The Turks attempted three times from 1822 to 1824 to invade the Peloponnese but were unable to retrieve the area.

Internal rivalries, however, prevented the Greeks from extending their control and from firmly consolidating their position in the Peloponnese. In 1823 civil war broke out between the guerrilla leader Theódoros Kolokotrónis and Geórgios Kountouriótis, who was head of the government that had been formed in January 1822 but was forced to flee to the island of Hydra in December 1822. After a second civil war in 1824, Kountouriótis was firmly established as leader, but his government and the entire revolution were gravely threatened by the arrival of Egyptian forces led by Ibrahim Pash, which had been sent to aid the Turks in 1825. With the support of Egyptian sea power, the Ottoman forces successfully invaded the Peloponnese, captured Missolonghi in April 1826, the town of Athens in August 1826 and the Athenian acropolis in June 1827.

The Greek cause, however, was saved by the intervention of the European powers. Favoring the formation of an autonomous Greek state, they offered to mediate between the Turks and the Greeks in 1826 and 1827. When the Turks refused, Great Britain, France, and Russia sent their naval fleets to Navarino, where on Oct. 20, 1827, they destroyed the Egyptian fleet. Although this severely crippled the Ottoman forces, the war continued, complicated by the Russo-Turkish War of 1828-29. In 1828 a small, independent Greek state was formed with 800,000 inhabitants. It was a penniless state of extremely small size, consisting of the Peloponnese, Central Greece and the Cyclades. It would take another century of struggle before all the Greeks were freed.

A Greco-Turkish settlement was finally determined by the European powers. At a conference in London, they adopted a protocol on Feb. 3, 1830, declaring Greece an independent monarchical state under their protection. By mid-1832 the northern frontier of the new state had been set along the line extending from south of Volos to south of Arta; Prince Otto of Bavaria had accepted the crown and the Turkish sultan had recognized Greek independence and signed the Treaty of Constantinople in July 1832.

The first man to govern the country was a Greek former minister of the Tsar, Ioannis Kapodistrias. His first task was to organize the state - its internal administration, the army, the questions of the national territories and independence and the border question. However, his clash with the local aristocracy provoked intense reactions which led to his assassination in 1831.

The 19th century was a long and trying time for the Greeks. It was a period during which Greek society, through myriad difficulties, was trying to define its national image and bring about its national fulfillment. The liberality and democracy of the first Greek Constitutions were replaced by an absolute monarchy guided by foreigners. In 1843 Otto, under popular pressure, granted a conservative Constitution (1844) which, however, was often ignored. Otto was finally driven out of the country in 1862.

With the Constitution of 1864 the regime of a constitutional monarchy was established. The new king was George I, a scion of the Danish dynasty of the Glucksburgs. In the same year, the Ionian islands were united with Greece and progressive political customs and organized social frameworks for Greece's political and social life introduced.

There was relative calm during the period that ensued up to the end of the century. Political battles were often relegated to the Chamber of Deputies while public opinion was more occupied by national and Balkan affairs. These were the Cretan Revolution of 1866-69; the establishment of a Bulgarian Church that was independent of the Patriarchate, the Bulgarian Hexarchy of 1870, and which, in turn, created a Macedonian problem when the limits of its authority had to be defined; the Russian-Turkish War of 1877-88 and the rise of panslavism; the establishment of a large Bulgarian state which stretched into Greek Macedonia by the Treaty of San Stefano in 1878, the invasion of Thessaly by the Greek army and its annexation in 1881 and new uprisings in Epirus and Crete.

The new ideology which took root in the decade of the 1840s and which dictated Greece's foreign policy for a long time was the concept of the "Great Idea". It aimed at freeing all the Greeks who were still under the Ottoman yoke and creating a greater Greece. It started as an ideology of the urban middle and lower-middle classes, passed through various phases and several ups and downs before becoming at the beginning of the following century the ideology of the urban upper class, acting as an inspiration for the liberation of enslaved Greeks and ending, finally, in national disasters and most acute internal conflicts.
Nick the Greek
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07/19/2012 06:19 PM
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Study both Youtube presentations carefully. Study the first-one and then the second-one as a neutral observer and say the first thing that comes to mind.

[link to www.youtube.com]
Hunza Prince visit to Skopje

[link to www.youtube.com]
God speaking to the Makedonoid

Two significant events which aided in FYRoM's fall from grace.

People were turned-off by the first-one...watching a supposed European country peopled by ex-Yugoslavs prostate themselves in adoration of a Pakistani-Prince...

...and in the second-one, Europeans were astounded, jaws dropped and eyes popped-out of their sockets at the sight of God talking to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs praising them for being Makedonoid, the first White people on earth.

I urge our Slavic neighbours to watch both Youtube presentations in order to make an honest appraisal as though they were somebody sitting in England, France Germany or Spain...or anywhere else in Europe and beyond.

Do these words come to mind...brainwashed, Indoctrinated, Makedonist Ideology!

Makedonism in FYRoM is dangerous in the wrong hands...it must be Stopped!
The Truth
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07/20/2012 12:30 AM
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I'm glad "Nick" mentioned the Great Idea (Megali Idea), a vile 19th century ULTRA NATIONALIST/EXPANSIONIST concoction that is still alive and well in 21st century Greek society and politics. It sought to conquer new lands, expel where possible and assimilate/homogenize the rest of the populations in these areas.

The Great Idea after successfully acquiring small parts of the European Ottoman Empire including the majority of Macedonian land along with its Slav speaking population by 1913, dismally failed in 1923 when the Turks knocked it on the head and intern caused the expulsion of over 600,000 Christian Turk refugees from Anatolia, later resettled in today's Greek Macedonia. These refugees and their descendants now make up the majority of Greek Macedonians whose sensitivities we supposedly upset by wanting to call ourselves Macedonians.

The Great Idea wasn't anything new, the concept was used by many countries in the past, but thankfully most have matured and are now respecting their minorities and moving forward, except for one. Greece apparently has no ethnic minorities within its borders? Strange, almost unbelievable for that part of the world, in contrast the Republic of Macedonia has many dozens; all are free to express their God given rights. Every one of Greece's neighbors have dozens of ethnic minorities yet officially Greece is 99% pure Greek, either they are lying or they have done the greatest ethnic cleanse in history.

Truth is there are still many ethnic minorities, although most have been brutally assimilated over the last century, there are still some brave souls that risk all to express their individuality, amongst those are what the government calls Slavophone Greeks, they call themselves either dopi (indigenes people) or just Macedonians. These Macedonians are the same people as those to the north in the Republic of Macedonia and have occupied these lands for more than 1700 years and probably for ever and it is an insult to be dictated to by Greek Macedonians who most have only been in Macedonia for 90 years!

The question here is: Is such policy in the interest of Greece itself at the beginning of the new century? Isn't it better for Greece to stop supporting such an ultra-racial idea and listen to the voice of the people creating a new Europe?

Not long ago 169 Greek intellectuals said it out-loud: ,,The Government, political parties, prominent journalists, high-ranking officers and the Church are giving signals for immediate danger. Greece is presented as continuously surrounded and aimed for suffocating by its enemies... We wish to live in peace with all nations in the Balkans... There is nothing abnormal in the existence of one harmonious society, which is built by different cultures and ethnoses. On the contrary - the reverse is admired. It is a real disgrace to suppress and eliminate minorities in the name of national unity. Let's respect these minorities, as we respect each citizen of Greece. We do not need neither to eliminate them, nor to assimilate them. On the contrary, we insist they have the same rights and opportunities as each one of us and support their specific rights as language, religion and politics, emerging from their ethnic base. Finally, isn't it this that the Greek Government requests constantly from other nations, where Greek minorities live?" /the ,,Elefterotipiya" newspaper, 30.03.1992/.
Nick the Greek
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07/20/2012 02:27 AM
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If country's with fixed borders existed in ancient-times, then Greece would have looked like this: [link to www.flickr.com]

Macedonia clearly discernible and within Hellenic borders.

Today, Greece looks like this: [link to www.bing.com]

Not many differences between the ancient-Map of Greece and the modern-Map of Greece...is there?

Greece lost Macedonia through conquest at various intervals during the past but Greece has always returned Macedonia back to Greek-hands through conquest...Never again, Macedonia stays Greek, we shall defend and protect Macedonia
in order to keep it Greek.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs Indoctrinated in the belief that Greeks took Macedonia away from them, a Slavic people, when in reality...Greeks returned Macedonia back from the Turk, from the Ottoman-Turk who ruled over the land for 400 years and in respect to the FYRoM area for >500 years.

Makedonism Ideology, the Idea that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are the natural heirs and inheritors of the ancient-Macedonian legacy is a dangerous Ideology...it teaches young Slavic children to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in Macedonia...the ancient-Kingdom. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these, they are South-Slavs of the Bulgarian - Serbian variety and Macedonia for them means expansion for the Slavic cause to take Slavdom to the Northern shores of the Aegean sea and place Macedonian lands into the Slavic camp.
Nick the Greek
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07/20/2012 11:49 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The ancient-Macedonians were Greeks, modern-Macedonians are Greeks...the differences between their Greekness only the Slavs of FYRoM profess to measure. When I say Slavs, I really mean Slavists, the Makedonist ones who profess to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs being Macedonians not on an equal footing to the Greeks but above and beyond, moreso than the Greeks. They call themselves Indigenous ethnic-Macedonians when racially they are as Slavic as the Bulgarians or as Slavic as the Serbians. What Makedonist-Slavists did to their own peoples cannot easily be undone, even though efforts are in play to return FYRoM back to the Slavic realm after a long period of neglect.

FYRoM has largely been left to wallow in it's own nostalgia, given wide birth from the rest of the Slavic world to find it's own way...in hind-sight that was a Mistake, because it allowed Turanid-Turkics to fill the void. Turanid-Turkic Ideologists unrestrained by the mainstream standard worked in tandem with FYRoM's diaspora communities to produce an Internet driven historical narrative. FYRoM's homegrown Slavist rogue-scholars, pseudo-histoians and specialist- propagandists teamed-up with their Turkic equivalents and rewrote the ancient demographic history of Europe. Turkics were scripted-in as Indigenous ancient-Trojans and Slavics were scripted-in as Indigenous ancient-Macedonians. The Turkic version of ancient-European history shared common themes and synergies with the FYRoM Slavist version.

Turkic and Slavic revisionism of the long established mainstream historical narrative littered the Internet with pseudo-history, some of it even made it into the International Press and Media...including Tv games shows and Radio commentaries. Such exposure was possible only on the back of Turkeys one-time strategic-alliance with Israel. Turanid and Slavist based anti-Hellenic propaganda was aired, sent to print and televized using the global Media assets of it's one-time strategic-partner. That alliance is no longer active, it became defunct based on a quarrel between Turkey and Israel. FYRoM's pseudo-history lost it's Media outlets and withered back into the shell from whence it started.

Slavic efforts to fetch FYRoM back into the Slavic fold has met with resistance on the basis...FYRoM's children, pupils and students have grown-up in the belief they are genuine Macedonians because they speak Macedonian and live in a country called Macedonia. From since Slavdom neglected FYRoM to find it's own way in the world, Slavic children have been raised to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.

The situation is dire...FYRoM's youth have started to reject their own Slavic roots and ethno-origins in favour of the Macedonian one, the one they were taught to believe in, that they are Macedonians, the true descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.
Nick the Greek
User ID: 20019448
United Kingdom
07/21/2012 05:43 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The assault on the Greek National-Character was at it's height when the Greece - FYRoM name dispute was at it's most heated...a period of history which lasted the full term of the GW Bush American administration. From 2004 - 2008, the Bush Presidency was bad for Greece on the basis, most of his advisors were anti-Hellenic and more Pro-Turk.

Those advisors, Colin Powel included, were Instrumental in getting GW Bush to recognize FYRoM as [RoM] Republic of Macedonia which prompted the rest of the world to follow suite.

To get their way in the Balkans, they had to do something about Greece and Henry Kissinger apparently suugested this:

"The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East."

Just to reiterate...To strike at their (i) language, (ii) their religion, (iii) their cultural and (iv) their historical reserves, so that we can neutralize them and their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail.

Greeks have experianced all those things in that supposed speech issued by Henry Kissinger. In fact, Greeks are still experiancing them first-hand. All those factors and all those anti-Hellenic elements in that speech have been played-out or are in the throws of being played-out and Greeks have absorbed them one by one.

To say that FYRoM was being used as a tool, as an aid to get at the Greeks, to spite them for being Mavericks, for standing in the way of [[American][Euro-Atlantic]] progress would be a reasonable assessment to make but what good has it done for FYRoM.

With a change of administration, from GW Bush to the Obama administration, the Greeks have witnessed a shift in the way
the Greek National Character gets assasinated. It used to emanate from America but now, it is more homegrown and European, where the European Press and Media, mainly Germanic, Anglo-Saxon or Northern-European present the Greeks as lazy cheating Southern-European people.

The Greek National Character has taken a bashing these lastr two-decades...ever since FYRoM came onto the scene but it's not all FYRoM's fault, FYRoM was just a tool to get at the Greeks, to change them, to make them conform and to Integrate them more into the Western Cabals in order to dilute from them, the Greek politicians their incesant Ottoman practices.

For the Germans and the rest of the Euro-Atlantic Cabals, thay shall not invest in Greece until it is seen as ready and conformist before they dispurse their FDI's.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20200648
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07/21/2012 06:00 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
There is nothing but names all over this, why don't you worry about keeping and expanding the ideas,

enough with the labes, free means you don't need money.
Nick the Greek
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07/21/2012 10:23 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
From the 6th Century A.D. the Slavic tribes and their Avar-Bulgar Overlords settled the Northern regions of the Haemus peninsula, incrementally making their way down South to the Byzantine Greco-Roman Empire in order to lay down roots. Some Slavic tribes settled the Peleponissus, see here: [link to upload.wikimedia.org]
Greeks have (at least some) origin of the Slavs, but we are not them, evidenced in our genetic profile, a genetic singnature who's footprint is still discernible in all those places where the ancient-Greeks dwelt...from Sicily in the West to Anatolia in the East.

It would be fair to say, that the original Slavic tribes that settled mainland Greece from top to bottom, left no discernible mark of their genetic presence in the region, in fact, it is the other way round...evidenced in the way the South-Slavic genetic profile differs from East-Slavic and the West-Slavic. I would say the local genetic element in the Haemus impacted more on the Slavic tribes than visa-versa.

When FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs tell us they have at least some Slavic origin in their biological make-up, that statement alone suggests that they have at least some Indigenous heritage in the region, which implies a local Greco-Roman element, at least in flavour. The term Greco-Roman is a lose term used to describe the local element of the Haemus plus the Hellenized-Romanized peoples of the [Byzantine] Empire. If they belong to this group of peoples, then they are brother peoples or a sister Nation to the Greeks.

If it could be proven that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are native and Indigenous to the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, Greco-Roman people at least in flavour, who's Greek speaking ancestors assimilated into the South-Slavic melieu...then the Slavic countries should be encouraged to release them from the shackles of Slavdom and allow them to revert back to their Greco-Roman roots and ethno-origins.

If that search reveals FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs to be more Paeonian and Dardanian than Macedonian...that revelation would still make them native and Indigenous tothe Haemus and still make them brother peoples to the Greeks. It may even encourage them to Re-Hellenize in order to share in th history and heritage of the Greeks with who'm they have great difficulty acknowledging as the legitimate heirs and inheritors of the ancient-Hellenic legacy.

Like the ancient-Hebrews are represented today by todays modern-jewish people, the ancient-Hellenes are represented today by todays modern-Greeks. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs could enjoy what the Greeks already enjoy...the cultural heritage of ancient-Greece.

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