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Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

 
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
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08/10/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

...


 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616


2...Most of the anti-Hellenic jibes nowadays emanate from two sources...(i) South-Slavic sources and (ii) Turkic sources.

3...Slavic speaking autochthonous ??? Are the Satem Slavic languages Indigenous to the Haemus ? and before you say Yes, why were they not Infuenced by the latin language of the Ruling Romans.

4...Making the Slavs Proto-Europeans even before the Greeks and before the Latins ? This is too much to take in right now. The Slavic languages are Not central among Indo-European language are they, in fact there is a polarization between Satem on the one side and Centum on the other side.

More later......
 Quoting: a 13571489


2 - i m not familiar with the turkish view in this context. i know they are an old north east asian group of peoples ( i mean the large turkish group, not just the ones in turkey) but i see no cooperation betwen the turkish school and the slavonic autochtonists, because of long standing political dispute( not just political, the turks supressed the serbs (as they supressed the greeks)quite violently, as far as i know) . so you can hardly see them as on the same side because they are not . the turks are not the focus of the slavonic - i havent noticed any autochtonist slavonic mentioning them. all i know is that the large turkish family of nations also has not had an objective role in written history, but were diminuished by western scholars. so i might understand their wish to know more about their ancient history - but that is what i think and not what i know, because, as i said, i havent studied them much

 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

FYRoM's unhealthy partnership-alliance with Turkey cuts uncomfortably deep, to the point where Turkey bankrolls some NoN-Governmental groups and associations in the diaspora that became active, spearheading the drive to flood the Internet alongside with other Media-outlets with vile and virulent anti-Hellenic propaganda, discrediting the modern-Greeks on their genes, anthroplogy, skin-colour,
race, religion, culture and traditions.

They left no stone unturned...Greeks have every right to be annoyed with FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs!
Nick the Greek
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08/10/2012 02:11 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

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 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

1...Really! I do that ?

2...Most of the anti-Hellenic jibes nowadays emanate from two sources...(i) South-Slavic sources and (ii) Turkic sources.

3...Slavic speaking autochthonous ??? Are the Satem Slavic languages Indigenous to the Haemus ? and before you say Yes, why were they not Infuenced by the latin language of the Ruling Romans.

4...Making the Slavs Proto-Europeans even before the Greeks and before the Latins ? This is too much to take in right now. The Slavic languages are Not central among Indo-European language are they, in fact there is a polarization between Satem on the one side and Centum on the other side.

More later......
 Quoting: a 13571489


3 - here, take a look:
[link to www.jandacek.com]
[link to www.jandacek.com]

the romans did not impose their language on country dwellers in provinces to such an extent as the germans did. so romanization was very limited. consider the romans ruling for 400 years, compared to the germans ruling for a thousand years - but we still have the language.
in spite of the fact, that germans actually wanted actively to germanise us also with public schools in german language.

but they have succeded to push the germanic - slavonic linguistic border to the east and south.

in the same context, the romans also succeded to push the romanic - slavonic border. northern italy, for instance, was not roman in roman times, but etruscan, celtic and vendic. that mean almost one half of italy...

 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

The Romanization of Rumania was so extensive, it left the peoples there with a linguistic legacy which clamps the Rumanian language firmly into the Latin domain. There is absolutely no merit in what you say about provincial dwellers being unaffected by that Romanization-process.

The Jirecek line, the delineation line, the divide which seperates the Hellenized portions of the Haemus from the Latinized portions cuts through the Northern border of FYRoM and carries on Eastwards cutting half-way through Bulgaria. North of this line is where Latin Influence was in the ascedency. The Romanized parts of the Haemus were equally as effective as the Hellenized parts. Slavs inhabiting either or both areas would have had their language Influenced either by Greek South of the Jirecek line or Latin North of it.

The accute shortage of Latin-Influences on the Slavonic languages North of the Jireck line goes a long way in proving that the Slavonic language were not Indigenous ethnic-languages native to the Haemus peninsula, but rather exogenous languages that were Introduced into the region sometime around the 6th Century AD.

I refer you to a process known as Slavicization. The Bulgarians went through it and came out the other side as fully fledged Slavic speakers when ethnogenists know the proto-Bulgar tribes as being a Turkic peoples.

South-Slavs speak Slavic now but it is still unclear what they spoke before adopting the Slavonic language and culture!
Nick the Greek
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08/10/2012 02:42 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
...

 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

 Quoting: a 13571489

1...Really! I do that ?

2...Most of the anti-Hellenic jibes nowadays emanate from two sources...(i) South-Slavic sources and (ii) Turkic sources.

3...Slavic speaking autochthonous ??? Are the Satem Slavic languages Indigenous to the Haemus ? and before you say Yes, why were they not Infuenced by the latin language of the Ruling Romans.

4...Making the Slavs Proto-Europeans even before the Greeks and before the Latins ? This is too much to take in right now. The Slavic languages are Not central among Indo-European language are they, in fact there is a polarization between Satem on the one side and Centum on the other side.

More later......
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616


4 - actually, there is no kentum group, as you can see in the link i posted above. the only thing the kentum languages corresponds is their similarity to the slavonic - satem languages. but they are all similar from different perspectives, exactly, as if the slavonic would be the linguistc centre and the kentum lanaguages peripheral.
there is a modern scientific direction, called the paleolithic continuity theory, based on genetics, which shows, that some 75% of europeans derive from native europeans since the paleolithic.
 Quoting: a 21654126


[link to www.jandacek.com]

The link is a piece of propaganda with no academic merit...see Reference 26 here:


26 - A Arnaiz-Villena, K Dimitroski, A Pacho, J Moscoso, E Gómez-Casado, C Silvera-Redondo, P Varela, M Blagoevska, V Zdravkovska, J Martın, HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks, Tissue Antigens 2001, 57, 118–127; cf.: [link to www.makedonika.org]
FYRoM Propaganda article used as a reference...Silliness, right!


The names listed above are FYRoM Slavic. They were the supposed scientists who aided and abetted the Spanish haematologist A.Arnaiz-Villena and his team, who together rigged the results of a genetic test carried out in FYRoM which placed Greek Dna in with the African cluster to give the impression that Greeks have African Dna.

These findings caused consternations in Europe where Greek Dna was tested in a European-wide genetic studies which could not replicate FYRoM's state sponsored study which purposely placed Greek Dna in the African cluster.

This is just one of FYRoM's spectacular attempts Rubbishing the Greeks and their culture. FYRoM is a hostile country to Hellas and Greeks treat them as hostiles...out to ridicule and humiliate Greeks and Hellenism.

We No longer give them the time of day...we keep them at arms length at a distance until the people there respect more the native-peoples of the Haemus.
Nick the Greek
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08/10/2012 05:17 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Makedonism in FYRoM is dangerous. Slavists there continue to spread historical-revisionism and pseudo-history in order to compliment an outdated expansionist Ideology from the imperialist era which had envisioned Slavdom stretching southwards down to Greece then onwards to the Northern shores of the Aegean Sea.

Makedonism in FYRoM is dangerous, it can be viewed within the context of an unsettled Tectonic-Plate, resting uneasy alongside other Tectonic-Plates, pressing down hard on the sides of the long-established settled ones. FYRoM's uneasy restlessness alongside it's neighbours is sending-out shock-waves far exceeding the regions natural capacity to absorb.

FYRoM, a new Slavic country seeks to establish itself in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula as a Nation of Slavic speaking Macedonians when the long established mainstream historical narrative places the Macedonians into the Greek domain, in with the Greek collective of peoples.

See what I mean about shockwaves!

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon located in Northern-Greece. The Macedonian name belongs to no-one but the Greeks and their legacy belongs to Greek heritage.

Had FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs Introduced themselves to the world as Slavs but Macedonians too, Greeks would have sat down with them to discuss precisely, their Macedonian credentials, but they didn't do that...instead, they told the world that Alexander the Great was the first Czar of the Slavs and the ancient-Macedonians were proto-Slavic peoples.

Greeks have long been settled in the Haemus peninsula and they have now become sensitized to FYRoM's anti-Hellenic propaganda antics...every word they say there, and every step they take there is scrutinized.

Macedonia for the Greeks constitutes a large potyion of their geography and an even larger portion of their national-history and cultural-heritage...Greeks aim to keep all of those Macedonian Identity factors because we owe it to our ancestral-forebears to do that.

From since 1991, FYRoM's unsetled restlessness in the Haemus is acting like that Tectonic-Plate, pressing down hard trying to fit-in but in doing that...is sending-out shockwaves, each recent one becoming more powerful than the previous one, and so on!
Nick the Greek
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08/11/2012 04:30 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Do the Greeks have the right to defend and protect their National-history and cultural-heritage from the likes of FYRoM's rogue scholars, psuedo-historians and specialist-propagandists who are hell-bent on scripting themselves a fabricated history and heritage which is foriegn to their ethno-cultural backround...the answer ofcourse, is YES, Greeks do have rights, they have historic-rights and an ethical-moral duty to do that.

So why do Slavist-Makedonists even attempt to connect FYRoM to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon when ancient-Macedonians were Greek speakers and Hellenic people and FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not! Slavist school taught young Slavic children to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs...they were never taught Macedonians are Greeks and Macedonia is Hellenic land.

So, is Macedonia Hellenic YES or NO

Well, that question entirely depends on which Macedonia one is talking about?

If one is talking about the Ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, then the answer is YES!

If one is talking about Macedonia II Salutaris...then the answer is NO!

Macedonia-Secunda-Salutaris is where FYRoM is situated right Now!

FYRoM is situated on an administrative district the latin-Romans named Macedonia II Salutaris, an add-on adjuncted to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon when the latin-Romans established Roman-rule over the Haemus peninsula. The Romans distinguished that added-on part, the beneficial Salutaris part, from the original ancient-Greek Kingdom which the Romans called Macedonia-Prima, meaning the first and foremost Macedonia.

FYRoM is Macedonia-Secunda...meaning, the Second-Macedonia! It has nothing to do with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon where Alexander the Great was born, making FYRoM's claims to a Macedonian-Identity rooted in classical antiquity absurd and wishful thinking!

Macedonians have always been Greeks, Northern-Greeks from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these!

For 21 years, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have Rubbished Ridiculed and Humiliated the Greeks over their National-history and cultural-heritage. They do it believing they could take the Macedonian name away from the Greeks on the basis they are the real Macedonians because they live in Macedonia and speak Macedonian but none of those Identity factors bode well with South-Slavs.

As we have just established...FYRoM is Not Macedonian-land,
rather it is an add-on the latin-Romans adjuncted to the ancient-Kingdom, evidenced in the name Macedonia-Secunda-Salutaris. FYRoM can have this name to describe themselves, their new Slavic-country, nationality, language and ethnicity!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are South-Slavs living in Macedonia-Secunda-Salutaris, speaking a hybrid Serbo-Bulgarian language...these are the facts, there is Nothing authentically Macedonian in FYRoM and thats the truth!
Nick the Greek
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08/11/2012 06:23 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

...

 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

 Quoting: a 13571489


[link to www.jandacek.com]
[link to www.jandacek.com]

4 - actually, there is no kentum group, as you can see in the link i posted above. the only thing the kentum languages corresponds is their similarity to the slavonic - satem languages. but they are all similar from different perspectives, exactly, as if the slavonic would be the linguistc centre and the kentum lanaguages peripheral.
there is a modern scientific direction, called the paleolithic continuity theory, based on genetics, which shows, that some 75% of europeans derive from native europeans since the paleolithic.
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 6488616

The PCT Theory is just a Theory...It has not attained academic following from reputable scholars rendering it somewhat sterile.

The assertions made by Mario Alinei do not represent the consensus among linguists, historical or otherwise. In particular, the so-called "Paleolithic Continuity Theory", which he champions, is (to say the least) controversial. It posits that at the end of the last Ice Age...some 13 thousand years ago, the Indo-European languages were already established and divided into the ancestors of the Germanic, Celtic, Italic, Slavic, Baltic and their subgroups, whose speakers were the first humans to repopulate Europe after the ice retreated, occupying roughly the same territories where they live today.

This places a differentiation from the common Indo-European language thesis of approximately 1.5 - 2.5 times farther back into the past than some other approaches do, it appears somewhat inconsistent and incompatible with an accumulation of other evidence as well.

The PCT Theory deserves fuller discussion ofcourse, but as far as I can see, it has not made many converts amongst reputable scholars who are more knowledgeable about the facts that it deals with, whether they are "traditional" approaches or "interdisciplinary" approaches or whatever.

Anyhow, like I said before:

Theories Ideas and Conjectures of any kind cannot be allowed to halt, put on-hold or permantly shelve the long established mainstream current view, pending their academic approval

The PCT theory is just a Theory currently void of any academic Merit...No serious scholar supports it's findings in any serious or valuable way.
Joey.Kaplan.Liberatio​n.Front
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Japan
08/11/2012 06:59 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
DGTBK. CIGAW?
Nick the Greek
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08/11/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
FYRoM's Slavist Makedonists cannot undo the past simply by rewriting it.

FYRoM's historical revisionism and Pseudo-history needs more followers than just the Indoctrinated Serbian and Bulgarian peoples that subscribe to it.

Macedonians were Macedonians ofcourse but Greeks to boot, by default!

It's not who you are but what you are! Macedonians Spartans Athenians Corinthians etc, all of them Greeks to the core...who denies it but the Slavs of FYRoM!

Macedonians were Macedonians because the term Greek was not applied alongside the term Macedonian...this is the kind of Slavist Indoctrinated Silliness Greeks have to contend with.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples...we know this from since they first learned to read and write, they have been telling us about their Greekness in ways which are still apparent even today!

FYRoM's Indoctrinated ex-Yugoslavs sift and search through historical text's for the term "Macedonian" and apply it to Serbo-Bulgarian people...themselves!

This is not right and somebody has to explain to them that Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon situated in Northern-Greece.

If left to wallow in their own nostalgia...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs shall convert their country into a Theme-Park Wonderland based on the Las Vegas model, where gigantic larger than life statues of ancient-Greek hero's adorn their streets boulevards and highways.

Before 1991, there were No gigantic Greek statues in FYRoM!

After 1991, FYRoM initiated a Makedonist theme to their politics and began to change. The country began to take on the look and the feel of ancient-Greece, where Alexander the Great and his father King Philip grace the interior of that country with their names and their presence everywhere in the form of Las Vegas style larger than life statues and figurines.
Nick the Greek
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08/11/2012 02:25 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
According to FYRoM logic...if South-Slavic people declare themselves Macedonians, they automatically become the modern descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. Flawed FYRoM logic, right!

It's not about who you are...It's about what you are! see example below:

Who are You: Macedonian
What are You: South-Slav

The example above is a Fail!

Now see correct example below:

Who are You: Macedonian
What are You: Greek-Hellenic

The example above is a Pass!

Like I said before: It's not Who you are but What you are, right!

If being Macedonian means being Greek in the first place...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs must learn to respect that!

Who:Macedonian. What:Greek-Hellenic. When:From since Millenia. Why:Same Speech Same genous. How:Natural-Law

Macedonians got to be Greek speaking Hellenic peoples through refined Natural processes...Natural-Law dictates that only Natural things can survive in Natures world.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs got to be Macedonians...Really ?
How did they do that. Why did they do that. When did they do that. What posessed them to do that. Who told them to do that.
Nick the Greek
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08/11/2012 06:32 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
From since 1945, Comrade Tito, the Communist leader of Yugoslavia renamed the Vardar Banovina region of South-Serbia to the “Socialist Republic of Macedonia,” making the new entity the 6th autonomous Republic to be incorporated into the Yugoslav Federation.

From 1945 until 1991, two generations onwards, young South-Slavic children in the republic learn to call themselves Macedonians on the basis, they live in Macedonia and speak Macedonian, which is a South-Slavic language closest to Bulgarian but for the five Serbian letters that were artificially introduced to make it Macedonian.

From 1991 onwards until today, a tacit negation of the ancient-Macedonians Greekness invokes "Makedonism," a doctrine which engulfs all the ideological and political life in the Republic. This negation is now openly expressed and defended there as the historical truth, whilst the ancient-Macedonians Greekness is not objected to by any academic historian in that country.

Slavic-Macedonians, being from Slavic stock and unrelated to the ancient ones, have to deny the ancient-Macedonians Greekness on the basis they would have an identity crisis on their hands otherwise, given that Macedonians, that is the Greek ones, still live there, in the ancient-Kingdom of Northern-Greece. Greco-Macedonians remain proud of their ancestral forebears which included such figures as King Philip of Macedon and his son Alexander the Great!

FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity nourished solely on historical revisionism and pseudo-history shall perish without them and it is perishing now, fading away even as we speak. The sources for those foodstuffs are diminishing, disappearing,
making FYRoM vulnerable to Identity-Change!
Nick the Greek
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08/12/2012 07:24 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs made the issue of Identity a political issue. For 21 years now, it has been discussed at the highest echelons of diplomatic office. Ofcourse, FYRoM's South-Slavic peoples have the right to self-Identity, it is a right assured through the UN charter but nobody ever envisioned the time when that universal-right would be abused so crudely for political motives.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are South-Slavs on the basis, that is what the terms "Yugo" and "Slav" mean...yet some people there deny they are from Slavic stock, ditching the term "Slav" for the term "Macedonian" and confounding it still by applying the term "ethnic" alonside it.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to self-Identify as "ethnic-Macedonians," do they have the right to do that ?
The answer ofcourse is No! Modern-ethnicity is a very difficult subject to discuss. It could be construed as being a manipulative concept-process. That young Slavic speaking children were taught, nurtured to think of themselves as Macedonians under strict authoritarian conditions, goes a long way in explaining how modern-ethnicity can be manipulated through social-engineering programmes.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are victims of Slavist based manipulations and social-engineering programmes, by-products of a now, outdated expansionist Ideology which could be traced back the Imperial Tzarist era and the advent of the Bulgarian-Exarchate.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs developed ethnic feelings, collective memories and national-pride under Slavist school conditions. Now that they are free from communism and the Yugoslav Federation which accomodated them from since 1945, they want too keep these Identity factors and they also want to express their Macedonian-Identity on the world-stage and at the International level...but for Greek objections.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have to deal with Greek objectionswhich seek to restrict South-Slavic people from using the Macedonian term at the ethnic-racial level and at the cultural-linguistic level, on the basis, Greeks have the right to defend and protect their national-history and cultural-heritage.

So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs self-Identify as ethnic-Macedonianswhen it is known in academic and scholarly circles that Macedonians are Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples. It was their ancestors that exported Hellenism and spread the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthestmost regions of the ancient-word.
So FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs self-Identify with a name that belongs in the Greek domain and who's Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

Can the UN and the International legislatures accomodate FYRoM's Identity at the International level, knowing full-well and in advance that a Nation of Macedonians outside of Hellenism and the Greek-Hellenoc core, has never existed in historical verity.

The answer ofcourse is No! FYRoM's much covetted Macedonian Identity shall always clash and conflict with the Greek one.

Two John Smiths could live in peace, side by side, next door to each-other, but if one John Smith decides to usurp the Identity of the other one...that is called Identity theft or in FYRoM's case, cultural thievery!

Welcome to the Name dispute between FYRoM - Greece! 21 years on and still unresolved.
Nick the Greek
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08/14/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonia:New Balkan Politics - Journal of Politics Issue 6

The disintegration of the Yugoslav Federation placed the historians apart from the successor states before approaching the task of reconsidering the national composition and tendencies of the, until then, dominant common Yugoslav historical “masterpiece” [1] .

In this regard, Macedonia is an exception: the ideology of Yugoslavianism proclaimed in 1952 was here once again subordinated to the one of Macedonianism [2] , when nation-building became at all possible in 1994, when this republic was constituted.

The Yugoslav Communist Party clearly understood that the policy for Macedonianization of the Yugoslav Vardar Macedonia, as well as temporarily of the Bulgarian Pirin Macedonia, promises little success, when there is a parallel policy of Yugoslavization being carried out [3] . Of course, the renunciation of this supranational concept is an insufficient explanation for the success of the project for creating a Macedonian nation, which was conducted from Belgrade.

In 1995, the social anthropologist from the US, Kate S. Brown, tried to examine this success with the help of the “national imagination” in the now independent Macedonia, and, toward this aim, formulated the following leading question:

“In the 1990s, Macedonians speak a language codified in 1946, spoken by less than two million people, and with a very slender literature. They are members of an Orthodox Church whose authority was established by a socialist political regime in 1968. They are heirs to a 1903 revolution that until the 1940s was described by almost all sources as being Bulgarian. They are descendants from people who were called, and at times called themselves, Serbs or Bulgarians. They have no modern history of independent statehood; the last period that they can claim as boasting a Macedonian regime was in the 11th century.

The Republic of Macedonia, established by consensus authorized by a referendum, has no internationally agreed name [...]. Yet its Slavic inhabitants have no doubt that they are Macedonians, and that the territory they occupy has always been and should always be occupied by Macedonians.

The question that baffles many Western observers is simple: how do these people know who they are?” [4]


Stefan Troebst from Leipzig
[link to www.newbalkanpolitics.org.mk] Historical Politics and Historical “Masterpieces” in Macedonia before and after 1991
Nick the Greek
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08/14/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Alexander the Great was the Greek King of Macedon...this is what it states and in very clear terms, in all the credible encyclopaedias of the world.

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece, very clear and very precise, no confusion here!

Macedonians are the Greeks who's ancestors initiated that campaign to free those ancient-Greek cities under Persian rule.

Macedonians are the Greeks who's ancestors exported Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture Eastwards to the Orient and beyond...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these Macedonians and they know it!

To be Macedonian, one needs to be Greek in the first place.

If being Macedonian means being Greek in the first place, then FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs should learn to respect that fact!

For 21 years FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have been under the delusion they are Macedonians...the only Macedonians, with exclusive rights to the ancient-Macedonian legacy. They arbitrarily and erroneously claim Alexander the Great for their ancestor and his legacy for their cultural-heritage.

Deluded, right!

Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!
Anonymous Coward
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08/14/2012 04:56 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Quick hack the program.
MKD
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Macedonia
08/15/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Oh boy!!!


Nick you are a master piece of the greek national-chauvinistic pathology.


If only fraction of all shit you wrote on this tread was to be true and based on facts you wouldn't need to write it in first place.
Truth does not need repetition. Only lies need to be repeated over and over again in hope to hide the truth.

That falls under psychiatric category!

Come on Nick. Show to the world once more that Macedonians are greeks.



We Macedonians are worst of them all, right Nickos?


1,5 million Albanians, God knows how many Pakistanis, Afghanistanis, Africans, today walks freely in Greece, but we the Macedonians from Republic of Macedonia, with same religion as you Greeks, with similar traditions, customs, are your worst enemy. Bravo Nickos!

Well, wait 10 to 15 years and then we will talk again.

Your gov. does a hell of a job trying to confront the two nations on every issue possible but does not care a shit if your women gets raped on your beautiful beaches by illegal aliens. Bravo to your government wisdom of making loyal greeks out of Pakistanis, Afghanistanis, Africans etc...

Continue Nickos. You are falling in a trap set by those who wants control by spreading division between nations, deeper and deeper every day.
Nick the Greek
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08/15/2012 02:07 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Oh boy!!!

1...Nick you are a master piece of the greek national-chauvinistic pathology.

2...If only fraction of all shit you wrote on this tread was to be true and based on facts you wouldn't need to write it in first place.

3...Truth does not need repetition. Only lies need to be repeated over and over again in hope to hide the truth. That falls under psychiatric category!

4...Come on Nick. Show to the world once more that Macedonians are greeks.

5...We Macedonians are worst of them all, right Nickos?

6...1,5 million Albanians, God knows how many Pakistanis, Afghanistanis, Africans, today walks freely in Greece, but we the Macedonians from Republic of Macedonia, with same religion as you Greeks, with similar traditions, customs, are your worst enemy. Bravo Nickos!

7...Well, wait 10 to 15 years and then we will talk again.

8...Your gov. does a hell of a job trying to confront the two nations on every issue possible but does not care a shit if your women gets raped on your beautiful beaches by illegal aliens. Bravo to your government wisdom of making loyal greeks out of Pakistanis, Afghanistanis, Africans etc...

9...Continue Nickos. You are falling in a trap set by those who wants control by spreading division between nations, deeper and deeper every day.
 Quoting: MKD 22007557

1...Ok!

2...What is written here in this Thread is for Slavic eyes in general, but more for You guys in particular. The Information listed here, has Informed many Slavic children, pupils and students. Young Slavs are questioning for the very first time whether it is right for a Slavic speaking country to claim Alexander the Great for their ancestor!

3...No lies here, just the Truth, the factual Truth.

4...Ofcourse Macedonians are Greek...Northern-Greeks that still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece.

5...You are Not Macedonian are You! You are a South-Slav.

6...Albanians went a long time ago, they have gone home. The Illegal Aliens, the ones you mentioned are being rounded-up and deported...even as we speak. Given the choice, I would chose neighbours over outsiders-foreigners,
but not the hostile ones.

7...In 10 - 15 years time we shall acknowledge each other by our ethno-cultural names.

8...Today is not a good time to be a foreigner in Greece.

9...Makedonism Ideology in FYRoM is dangerous in the wrong hands. It is the most hostile anti-Hellenic Ideology ever invented because it seeks to alter the demographics of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula by changing Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.
Nick the Greek
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08/15/2012 04:12 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Poles apart...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs on the one hand, and Greeks on the other hand. The problem between them is a name dispute in it's 21st year pending resolution.

Greeks contend that Macedonians are Greeks from since the days of King Karanos...for Greeks, the Macedonian name stays in the Greek domain whilst Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek-heritage. Northern-Greeks still use that Macedonian-Identity today, in the regional-geographic sense.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs contend, they are Macedonians also, only they go a step further by strategically placing the "ethnic" term along-side the Macedonian one. They call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians" much to the annoyance of the Greeks.

The International academic community support the Greeks on these main tenets...that the Macedonian name was created from Greek speaking Hellenic peoples who's Identity was attested to in other peoples histories.

Global politicians versed in the complexities of diplomacy
and International relations cannot disagree or go against the findings of scholars and academics who spent their professional carears on the dissemination of classicist Greco-Roman history.

If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to use the Macedonian-Identity
to describe themselves, they first have to acknowledge that the first users of that Identity were Greek speakers and Hellenic people.

The original-Macedonians were Greeks and they are still here today as Greeks...FYRoM has to contend with these people when they call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians."
Nick the Greek
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08/16/2012 02:25 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
For Slavic eyes in general but for FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs in particular...this is for You!

Macedonians are the Greeks of Northern-Greece who still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon...only these people have the right to call themselves Macedonians in the authentic sense of the word.

There are Macedonians elsewhere in this world ofcourse...the common attribute between them is that their ancestral forbears at one time or another, in the near or distant past hailed from that place in Northern-Greece.

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

Go tell the Abduls Mehmetins and Gorans from FYRoM who Rubbish the Greeks and try so hard to alter the demographics of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula by changing Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs.

Slavist Makedonists from FYRoM cannot undo the Past simply by rewriting it!

Only in the darkest crevasses of the sick and twisted minds of FYRoM's Slavist Makedonists do they see Alexander the Great as a Proto-Slavic hero...they call him Aleksandar Veliki the first Czar of the Slavs and they built a gigantic statue of him in the center of Skopje, their capital city, a place he never visited or set foot.

Greeks have to deal with these people...South-Slavic people Indoctrinated on Makedonism, an Ideology so anti-Hellenic it contends that Macedonians were Not Greek speaking Hellenic peoples but rather, they were Slavic speaking South-Slavic peoples such as the ones you find today in modern-day FYRoM.
MKD
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08/16/2012 07:34 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
KKE and the Macedonian issue

After the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, World War I in 1916-1918, and the disastrous Greco–Turkish War of 1919–1922, there were diplomatic approaches from the superpowers of that era regarding the re-drawing of Greek borders, based on Turkey and Bulgaria pressing for more territory to improve trade routes with the British Empire. The ruling parties were simultaneously trying to move parts of Northern Greece (Macedonia and Thrace) to Turkey and Bulgaria, and to win the return of islands in the Aegean and parts of Macedonian territory to the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. This policy was reiterated several times throughout the pre-war era.[5][6]

The main impetus for their demand was the ethnic and religious minorities then living inside Greek borders in Northern Greece. KKE opposed any geo-strategic game in the area which would use minorities to start a new imperialistic war in the region. At its Third Party Congress in 1924, KKE announced its policy for the self-determination of minorities, pointing out the minorities in Macedonia.[7] Its policy was dictated by each Marxist-Leninist theory, that stated any minorities should be self-determined under a common Socialist State, and it had its roots in the example of the newly founded Soviet Union.[8]
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In 1924, KKE expressed the official position of the Third International for "independent Macedonia and Thrace". Some members disagreed with this, but it remained the official position of the party and caused expulsions of communists by the Greek state.[9] KKE was seen by many as a party whose policy was "the detachment of large areas of northern Greece". According to Richard Clogg "this was dictated by Comintern and hurt the popularity of Communism at the time".[10]

In 1934, KKE changed its view and expressed its intent to "fight for the national self-determination, under a People's Republic where all nations will found their self-determination and will build the common state of the workers...".[11]

Nikos Zachariadis, General Secretary of the party, officially renounced KKE's policy of secession in 1945.[12] Anti-KKE propaganda up-to-day, added on this quote the will to collaborate for this goal with the Bulgarian organizations of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization and the Thracian Revolutionary Organisation. This is not mentioned on any of KKE official documents. The quote is referenced as KKE's policy for "giving Greek soil to the northern enemies of the country", a fact that can't be crossed referenced with any of KKE referenced literature of that era.

During the civil war (1946–1949), an article written by Nikos Zachariadis expressed the KKE's strategy after the envisioned victory of the Democratic Army of Greece regarding what was then known as the "Macedonian Issue": "The Macedonian people will acquire an independent, united state with a coequal position within the family of free peoples’ republics within the Balkans, within the family of Peoples’ Republics to which the Greek people will belong. The Macedonian people are today fighting for this independent united state with a coequal position and is helping the DSE with all its soul..."[13] The policy of self-determination for Macedonia within a People's Republic was reiterated during the 5th KKE Central Committee meeting held in January 1949, which declared that the "Macedonian people participating in the liberation struggle would find their full national re-establishment as they want giving their blood for this acquisition ... Macedonian Communists should pay great attentions to foreign chauvinist and counteractive elements that want to break the unity between the Greek and Macedonian people. This will only serve the monarcho-fascists and British imperialism ...”.[14] These statements can be explaned due to the large number of Slavomacedonian fighters (30-50%) amongst the DSE fighters and prompted the government in Athens to begin a campaign against KKE and the party's military wing, the Democratic Army of Greece (DSE), blaming them for secession plans in northern Greece.

In order for KKE to clear up its position on the "Macedonian subject", the 6th Congress of its Central Committee was called a few months later, during which was clearly stated that KKE was fighting for a free Greece and for a common future for Greeks and Macedonians under the same state.[15]

The issue was ended by Central Committee in 1954 with the withdrawal of the position of self-determination of minorities. In 1988, the General Secretary of KKE, Charilaos Florakis, once again presented KKE's political position on the matter in a speech to the Greek Parliament.

I hear KKE are still very active in Greece!


Who knows, maybe some day in future...
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 07:51 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonia, is was Greek culture still is, but there is

50/50 culture mix with Slavic people


do not trust history books from

the English because they always insert them self's into places where they do not belong.


Macedonia history books are correct and Greek history is correct

each side, wrote their part of history, for their own area to which they forested
Nick the Greek
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08/16/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
1...Macedonia, is was Greek, culture still is,

2...but there is 50/50 culture mix with Slavic people

3...do not trust history books from the English because they always insert them self's into places where they do not belong.

4...Macedonia history books are correct and Greek history is correct

5...each side, wrote their part of history, for their own area to which they forested
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18865581

1...Agree!

2...No! Slavic culture in the Haemus has as it's basis a Greek Byzantine Orthodox tradition. It would be more correct to say...Slavic countries Influenced by Byzantium adopted a culture and a way of life which evolved into a unique Greco-Slavic culture based around Greek Orthodox Christendom.

3...Waffle! There is only mainstream history...with differing interpretations. FYRoM's Interpretations are so far-off, outside the boundaries of the mainstream, it is considered pseudo-history unique only to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs.

4...Waffle! Macedonian history is Greek history and visa-versa.

Only hardened propagandists or severley brainwashed Individuals attempt to seperate Macedonians from the rest of the Greeks. De-Hellenizing Macedonians is a core tenet of Makedonism...a doctrine taught only in FYRoM by Slavist revisionist rogue-scholars and pseudo-historians!

Macedonians are Greek...Northern-Greeks from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece.
Nick the Greek
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08/16/2012 02:18 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
KKE and the Macedonian issue

Nikos Zachariadis, General Secretary of the party, officially renounced KKE's policy of secession in 1945.[12] Anti-KKE propaganda up-to-day, added on this quote the will to collaborate for this goal with the Bulgarian organizations of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization and the Thracian Revolutionary Organisation. This is not mentioned on any of KKE official documents. The quote is referenced as KKE's policy for "giving Greek soil to the northern enemies of the country", a fact that can't be crossed referenced with any of KKE referenced literature of that era.

During the civil war (1946–1949), an article written by Nikos Zachariadis expressed the KKE's strategy after the envisioned victory of the Democratic Army of Greece regarding what was then known as the "Macedonian Issue": "The Macedonian people will acquire an independent, united state with a coequal position within the family of free peoples’ republics within the Balkans, within the family of Peoples’ Republics to which the Greek people will belong. The Macedonian people are today fighting for this independent united state with a coequal position and is helping the DSE with all its soul..."[13] The policy of self-determination for Macedonia within a People's Republic was reiterated during the 5th KKE Central Committee meeting held in January 1949, which declared that the "Macedonian people participating in the liberation struggle would find their full national re-establishment as they want giving their blood for this acquisition ... Macedonian Communists should pay great attentions to foreign chauvinist and counteractive elements that want to break the unity between the Greek and Macedonian people. This will only serve the monarcho-fascists and British imperialism ...”.[14] These statements can be explaned due to the large number of Slavomacedonian fighters (30-50%) amongst the DSE fighters and prompted the government in Athens to begin a campaign against KKE and the party's military wing, the Democratic Army of Greece (DSE), blaming them for secession plans in northern Greece.

In order for KKE to clear up its position on the "Macedonian subject", the 6th Congress of its Central Committee was called a few months later, during which was clearly stated that KKE was fighting for a free Greece and for a common future for Greeks and Macedonians under the same state.[15]

The issue was ended by Central Committee in 1954 with the withdrawal of the position of self-determination of minorities. In 1988, the General Secretary of KKE, Charilaos Florakis, once again presented KKE's political position on the matter in a speech to the Greek Parliament.

I hear KKE are still very active in Greece!


Who knows, maybe some day in future...
 Quoting: MKD 19541710

Communism was bad for the Slavic peoples, at least in Greek eyes it was. The speed at which the Slavic peoples dropped their much vaunted Christian-Orthodox faith for Atheism, Communist style, earned the Slavic race a reputaion for changing their [beliefs] religion at the drop of a hat.

And Now...The Slavic peoples of the Haemus profess to be all Christian and religious again, after spending almost three generations in Communist Heaven.

I dont know about other Greeks but for me, these are peoples with little scruples...void of ethical decency.

Example is FYRoM where it took the Communists to create for them a Christian Orthodox Church. From 1967, inside the confines of the Yugoslav Federation, Tito sanctioned the creation of a so called "Macedonin Church" to compliment two ealier creations he santioned...(i) The creation of a so called "Macedonian-language" in 1944, and (ii) The creation of a Macedonian Socialist Republic in 1945.

Greeks No like Communism or Communists...that Ideology Killed more Greeks than WWII and saw Slavs, both Serb and Bulgar join forced to invade Greece in order to make it a Communist country.
Nick the Greek
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08/17/2012 02:16 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavs settled the byzantine empire from around the 6th century a.d. From that era until now is a time continuum spanning 1,400 years. They (slavs) did not come into the region as macedonians.

The Slavic tribes from that era, with their own unique ethno-cultural tribal names, are known to historian scholars and academics alike...none were called, or called themselves macedonians.

1,400 years of slavic settlement of the byzantine empire does not entitle them to usurp the macedonian name for ethnic-racial use, or for cultural-linguistic use, as these (macedonian) identity factors do not bode well with slavs.

At best, the slavs could identify as regional-geographic macedonians...after the name given by the romans to a more extended and enlarged geographic macedonian region.

Macedonia(n) is regional-geographic identity, not ethnic or racial...or national, or even cultural-linguistic identity. The name belongs in the greek domain and the macedonian-identity belongs to greek heritage.

FYRoM's attempts to usurp the macedonian name for country use, nationalality use and ethnic-racial, cultural linguistic use flies in the face of what is actually known about FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs...that they are from Serbian or Bulgarian stock and cannot possibly be macedonians in the way that they define themselves.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2012 02:32 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
All I know for sure is that he was 100% fag.
Nick the Greek
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08/17/2012 06:21 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
In the broader sense, one could say that Macedonians today are those people that live in Macedonia...but Macedonia today is different from the original-Macedonia of antiquity.

Macedonia today has changed both size and shape, today, it is more bigger and more larger than the original-Macedonia...the ancient-kingdom which has always been situated in Northern-Greece.

Today, Macedonians can be Slavs, both Serb and Bulgarian, and Albanian also...Macedonians today can also be Turks too, but who in their right mind can deny that the original-Macedonians were Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples. Who has got the gall or the front to deny that!

Today, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to usurp the Macedonian name exclusively for themselves. They want to apply it to their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity when it is known, these Identity factors do not bode well with South-Slavs.

It takes a brave South-Slavs to proclaim himself a Macedonian at the expense and exclusion of the Greek!

Knowledgable people...scholars and academics know the original-Macedonians to have been a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples, and because they still exist today as Greek speaking Hellenic peoples it makes a mockery out of FYRoM's claims to the same!

FYRoM's Slavist orientated Makedonists cannot undo the past simply by rewriting it!

If being Macedonian means being Greek in the first place...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs must learn to respect that!
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2012 06:27 PM
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All I know for sure is that he was 100% fag.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10389511


This is truthrofl
Nick the Greek
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08/18/2012 05:27 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
There is Nothing Macedonian in FYRoM...at least Nothing Authentic I mean. Everything there is a facade, to appear genuine legitimate and veritable when in reality it is not.

Take the name of the land: Named Macedonia Secunda-Salutaris by the Romans...when in reality, it is not real or authentic Macedonian-land in regards to Alexander the Greats Kingdom.

Take the name of the people: Named Macedonians by themselves...when in reality, they are Southern-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

Take the name of their language: Named Macedonian-language by Slavist philologists from communist era Yugoslavia...when in reality, it is a Serbianized-Bulgarian language, just 5 Serbian letters short from proper Bulgarian-language.

Take the name of their ancestors: Named Macedonians by Slavist pseudo-historians...when in reality, their ancestors self-Identified themselves as full-blooded Bulgarians fighting for the Bulgarian cause.

There is Nothing Authentically Macedonian in FYRoM....everything there is fabricated, veneered to give the outward impression it is Macedonian when in reality it is Not!

Authentic Macedonians are those people that still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedonian situated in Northern-Greece...not those people who live outide of it!

Authentic Macedonians are those people that still speak Greek, the Macedonian language of old...not the new Slavic concoction mischieveously named "Macedonian-language" by communist era Slavist philologists for mischieveious Slavic reasons.

Authentic Macedonians are those people that still remain proud of their Greek-Hellenic ancestors, the ones that initiated that campaign to free the ancient-Greek cities from subjugation by the Persian empire...not those people who deny the ancient-Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity.

Authentic Macedonians are those people that still remain proud of their Greek-Hellenic roots and ethno-origins...not those people who deny them!

Authentic Macedonians are Greeks, Northern-Greeks...not Southern-Slavs!
Nick the Greek
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08/19/2012 04:10 AM
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Something very Morbid in wanting to take the name of an ancient-peoples in order to apply it to your tribe, in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense knowing full well and in advance that you are causing consternations with the living relatives that still use that name for Identity...Certainly, it is not a natural thing to do, I mean ofcourse to usurp the name of another peoples and then attempt to convince the outside world that you are the one more deserved of that name on the basis it applies to your language and to your country.

Something very Morbid in wanting to rewrite the history and the heritage of another-peoples in order to claim their legacy as yours, knowing full well and in advance that it is a legacy to which you have No real, earthly or natural connections to...Certainly, it is not a natural thing to do,
I mean ofcourse to usurp their name, their history and their heritage on the basis it is a human-right to self-Identify the way you want, the way you feel and the way you see fit.

Something very Morbid in telling the world that you feel Macedonian on the basis, you have developed ethnic-feelings
and collective memories for Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity knowing full well and in advance that those ancient-peoples were a Greek-speaking Hellenic peoples, whilst your ancestors were known to be Slavic-speakers from away lands.

Something very Morbid in wanting to convince the outside world that you are Macedonian on the basis, your language is called Macedonian-language and your country is called Republic of Macedonia, therefore, on this alone, it gives you entitlements and rights to claim the history, the heritage and the legacy of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity when it is known...you are Not one of these!

Something very Morbid...convincing yourself that you connect to ancient-peoples from a different ethnic and racial backround to your own, who's culture, Ideals and core values formed the bedrock and the foundations of Western civilisation.

Something very Morbid about that!
Nick the Greek
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08/22/2012 02:35 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonians are the Greeks who still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece. They are proud Macedonians because they remained loyal to Hellenism, who's language knowledge and culture their ancestros exported to the farthest reaches of the ancient world...Not the Southernmost Slavs of FYRoM who live on ancient-Paeonian lands and ancient-Dardanian lands but call it Macedonian lands on the basis of some latin-Roman era Maps which if scrutinized properly, named the place where FYRoM is right now to Macedonia Secunda Salutaris, meaning the Second-Macedonia, the beneficial, the added-on part which they adjuncted to real Macedonia the Romans called Macedonia-Prima, meaning the first and foremost Macedonia.

Clearly, at best, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are just Secondary-Macedonians...not Authentic but the next best thing to real Macedonians!

FYRoM's pseudo-historical revisionism attempts to make South-Slavs real and authentic Macedonians when the reality of it is much much different.

FYRoM is Paeonia and Dardania in ancient-geography terms, Not Macedonia at all...that place, the real and authentic
ancient-Kingdom of Macedon is still in Northern Greece where the Macedonians live.

FYRoM's Slavist propagandists attempted to blur the distinction between Macedonians and the rest of the Greeks but in doing so, they turned the Greeks against them, they alienated the whole Hellenic Nation and it's global diasporas against them.
Nick the Greek
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08/22/2012 02:33 PM
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If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are who they say they are...then we would expect to be hearing them speaking the Greek-language and watching them priding themselves on their Millenia-old Hellenic heritage, but we see none of these things, we do not witness these Identity factors from them, instead we hear them speaking a Slavic-language concocted from Serbian and Bulgarian and watch them priding themselves on usurping the Macedonian-name exclusively for their self-Identity, country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity, the whole package.

If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are who they say they are, original authentic-Macedonians...then they should show it by speaking the same language Alexander the Great spoke when he went on that campaign to free those Greek Cities in the East that found themselves under Persial rule.
If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are who they say they are, modern descendants of the ancient-Macedonians...then they should show their pride in Hellenism, that Hellenic culture Alexander the Great exported to the farthestmost points of the eastern world.

If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs were who they said they were, that would make them Greek, Greek-speakers and Hellenic-peoples, but they are not one of these...they are South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock with a deep-rooted hatred for Hellenism and all things Greek.

Greeks consider FYRoM the country, a hostile country, and the Serbo-Bulgarian peoples there as hostiles!

Greeks keep them at arms length, at a distance...and so does the International community, until the Slavic peoples there learn to respect more the demographic history of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, the primordial homelands of the Greek-Hellenic peoples from since Millenia.

Authentic-Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!

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