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Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

 
MKD
User ID: 22414957
Macedonia
08/22/2012 02:47 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Get a real job, loser!

Stop shiting propaganda!
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/22/2012 03:48 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
1...Get a real job, loser!

2...Stop shiting propaganda!
 Quoting: MKD 22414957

Shameless, absolutely Shameless!

1...In fact, I have Two real jobs!

2...Propaganda: FYRoM was cautioned and disciplined when it was found using State sponsored [genetic] propaganda rigging the results of a genetic test where the one singular supposedly Greek sample was placed in with the African cluster, to give the impression that modern-Greeks had African [genes] Dna...Genetic tests who's results could not be duplicated or repeated in other European labs.

Propaganda: FYRoM was cautioned and discoplined when it was found using the Institutions of State to spread pseudo-historical propaganda about the Rosetta Stone middle text inscriptions being the long lost language of the Slavic speaking proto-Macedonians from antiquity.


Propaganda: FYRoM was cautioned and disciplined when it was found airing a Nationally Televized programme showing God speaking to the FYRoM public, explaing to them, they are the Makedonoid...the progenitors of the White race!

Propaganda: Shall I continue......
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/23/2012 02:25 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Applying the Macedonian name to a South-Slavic language concocted from Serbian and Bulgarian does not a Macedonian make!

Applying the Macedonian name to the Vardar-region of South-Serbia does not a Macedonian make!

Applying the Macedonian name for self-Identity, in the ethnic-racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense
does not a Macedonian make!

Applying these Macedonian Identity factors to Slavic speakers from Serbian and Bulgarian stock does not a Macedonian make.

Macedonians are Greeks...Northern-Greeks. Greeks that still live inside the boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon situtuated in Northern Greece, these are the real authentic-Macedonians.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs apply the Macedonian name to (i) themselves, (ii) their new Slavic country, (iii) their nationality, (iv) their language, (v) their ethnicity, as if by labelling these Identity factors "Macedonian" you automatically become one, a bona-fide Macedonian with ancestral-rights and historic-rights to Alexander the Great's legacy.

Recorded history can track and pinpoint exactly, the date when Slavists from the old-Yugoslavia changed the name of FYRoM's language from Bulgarian to Macedonian.

Recorded history can track and pinpoint exactly, the date when Slavists from the old-Yugoslavia changed the name of Serbias southern region from Vardar-Banovina to Macedonia.

Recorded history can track and pinpoint, with some degree of accuracy, the start of Makedonism...an expansionist based Slavist Ideology which envisioned Slavdom expanding southwards to Northern-Greece and then onwards to the Aegean coast for naval access to the Aegean sea and beyond.

From 1878, with the establishment of the Bulgarian-Exarchate
we have watched various attempts by Slavdom to take Macedonian-lands away from the Greeks.

From the Imperialist-Tzarist era to the Pan-Slavic era, and from that era to the Bolshevik-Communist era, and from that era to the modern era with Capitalism and the free-market era. The constant has always remained the same...to take Macedonia away from the Greeks, by stealth or by military means, or as we have witnessed today, using Western rights and freedoms with some effect to misuse-impose the right of self-determination to inappropriately name a South-Slavic peoples "Macedonians" on the basis, they have the right to name themselves how they feel and how they see fit, at the expense and exclusion of the Greeks.

Applying the Macedonian name to South-Slavs does not make them authentic-Macedonians...

...authentic-Macedonians are the Greeks of Northern-Greece that still live inside the boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, proud Greeks who have remained loyal to Hellenism.
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/23/2012 05:51 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity did not develop through natural processes but through the will and determination of those Slavists that demanded it...evidenced damningly by it's absence before the advent of the Bulgarian Exarchate during the last decades of the 19th Century. Before this juncture, the development of a Macedonian-Identity amongst the Southernmost Slavs of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula never crossed the boundaries of geography where Slavic speakers Identified as such in this context, within the framework of the greater Slavic Milieu.

That Slavic Nations in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula are named after their primordial tribal forebears...only two Nations there show their inconsistancies in this regard, where (i) Bulgaria the country, gets it's name from an old-Turkic Tribe, and (ii) FYRoM the country, gets it's name from an ancient-Hellenic Tribe. Both Bulgaria and FYRoM share similar if not the same language, and both peoples are the nearest Slavic speakers to the Greek world where both peoples shared the same geographic space north of Greece.

That the Imperialist Tzarist-Russians resurrected a modern Slavic Nation in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula under an old-Turkic Tribal name...ostensibly to legitimize the oldest known Slavic presence there, does not bode well for Slavdom
having to trace their history back to proto-Bulgar peoples,
peoples that were known to have been outwardly different, both ethnically and racially to the Slavic Tribes. The Bulgar name basically restricts Slavdom from claiming a presence there in the Haemus before the 6th Century A.D.

FYRoM has inconsistancy problems with it's name also, in terms of both race and ethnicity and in terms of historical presence in the Haemus. FYRoM's self-imposed name can be traced back to a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples where the Macedonians were known to have inhabited the northern extremities of the Greek world, their King, Alexander the Great exported Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthest points eastwards to the then known ancient-world.

Slavs using the Greek [Macedonia] name to Identity with is similar to Slavs using the Turkic [Bulgar] name to Identity with. Bulgaria today is a Slavic speaking country, who's history stipulates...the proto-Bulgars Slavicized themselves over a period of 8 generations or 200 years, so that by the 9th Century A.D. Bulgarians were speaking the language of the Masses and had developed a literary tradition based on the Cyrilic alphabet. FYRoM today is a Slavic speaking country similar to Bulgaria, their history is similar to the Bulgarian one but for the pseudo-historical nonsense taught in the schools colleges and universities there.

Proto [Turkic] Bulgar people Slavicized themselves to become what they are today...a modern Slavic Nation and country in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have to decide if they did the same thing...did Greek speaking Hellenic Macedonians Slavicise themselves to become what FYRoM is today ???
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/23/2012 10:56 AM
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Ask ten different people in FYRoM where their ethno-origins lay and there is a high probability you shall hear ten different answers...such is the confusion there over the ethnic and racial, cultural and linguistic Identity of the disparate peoples there. The reasons for this are many, not least, the Bulgarian-camp vies and competes against the Serbian-camp which vies and competes with the Makedonist-camp for the hearts and minds of the country's simple-hearted, simple-minded peoples.

1...The Bulgarian-camp in the country tells them they are Bulgarians...evidenced in the language they speak and the similarities in folklore culture and traditions.

2...The Serbian-camp in the country tells them they are Southern-Serbs and different from Bulgarians...evidenced in the Serbism's found in their language and the similarities in folklore culture and traditions.

3...The Makedonist-camp in the country tells them they are neither Serb nor Bulgarian but Macedonian...evidenced in the name of their language and the name of their country, which can be traced back to 1944 and 1945 respectively in communist-era Yugoslavia, but this is not expounded upon for fear questions shall be asked about Identity issues there before those dates.

There is another force inside FYRoM which is neither Serb in flavour, Bulgarian in flavour or Makedonist in flavour, and that is the Hellenist-camp in the country. The Hellenist-camp keeps a stealthy distance from the rest,
coordinating a Hellenic course for the country...evidenced in the street names there, where ancient-Greek names in there number adorn streets boulevards and highways, but more evidence of the Hellenization process can be found in the street architecture where gigantic statues of ancient-Greek Kings and hero's stand on plinths 22 meters high at the center of Skopje.

FYRoM, Identity wise, is spoilt for choice or getting torn apart due to the torment of it...I mean, having to chose between Serbian-characteristics, Bulgarian-characteristics and Greek characteristics. The Makedonist-camp there attempts to incorporate all three characteristics into one singular and unique Makedonci-Identity but the results are not good nor pleasing to the eye.

In FYRoM today, one can witness ancient-Hellenic things standing next door to medievil-Slavic things, and this comes across as a mismatch, the type of mismatch you get when one attempts to mix and match several elements at once in order to get an aesthetically pleasing result, but ends-up looking Vulgar and unplanned for...This is where FYRoM has ended-up, looking Vulgar and pleasing nobody!
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/23/2012 01:37 PM
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FYRoM's Macedonian Identity rests on the twin pillars of Language Name and Country Name...take these away, I mean, knock these pillars down and FYRoM has nothing else to base their Identity on.

Language Name and Country Name...Two Identity factors FYRoM bases it's Identity on, and both were sanctioned in 1944 and 1945 respectively by a South-Slavic Croatian Communist going by the name of Marshall Tito.

The language name is properly called Serbo-Bulgarian and the country name...Vardar-Banovina for those in the know!

FYRoM's Macedonian Identity is based on the will and determination of the Slavists that demanded it. The peoples there would happily revert back to their Serbian and Bulgarian roots and ethno-origins given the choice and the opportunity.

Language name and country name...it is these two factors which enable FYRoM to complete the jigsaw...where country name begets nationality and language begets ethnicity.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs base their ethnicity on the name of their language which came into existence for the very first time in 1945.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs base their nationality on the name of their country which came into existence for the very first time in 1945.

Country Name - Nationality Name - Language Name - Ethnicity Name!

The Identity Jigsaw above completes when the country name is determined and the language name is determined. Both of them were determined by the sheer will and determination of the Slavists in the old-Yugoslavia that demanded it!
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/24/2012 03:58 AM
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FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs would happily revert back to their Serbian and Bulgarian roots given the choice and the opportunity...it has already started to happen, evidenced in the >70k Bulgarian Passports that have been applied for and issued to the people there. Bulgarians in FYRoM Identity themselves as Bulgarians and the Serbians there do the same. The Makedonci notation was only ever used for geographic conveniance by both Serbs and Bulgarians, but Slavist-Makedonists in FYRoM demand them ditching the Serb and Bulgarian Identity factors for just the Macedonian one.

In FYRoM, Serbs Identify this way: I am Serb from Makedonija, which equates to Serb from the geographic region of Macedonia, but Slavist-Makedonists there want them to ditch the Serb Identity factor.

In FYRoM, Bulgars Identify this way: I am Bulgar from MAKEDONHR, which equates to Bulgar from the geographic region of Macedonia, but Slavist-Makedonists there want them to ditch the Bulgar Identity factor.

Makedonism Ideology in FYRoM is dangerous...it seeks to make Macedonians out of Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs at the expense and exclusion of the Greeks.

Authentic-Macedonians are the Greeks that still live in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece. The latin-Romans used that regional-tribal name to extend and enlarge an administrative district, but they made the distinction between the two...Macedonia-Prima denoted the real and authentic ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, whilst Macedonia Secunda Salutaris, denoted the extended, added-on parts which just used the name for administrative purposes.

FYRoM is not real Macedonia and the people there are not real Macedonians...the land FYRoM sits on is actually ancient-Paeonian land in the South and ancient-Dardanian land in the North, whilst the people there are South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

Everything in FYRoM is fabricated...from the name of the peoples to the name of the land, and it is all reflected in the way they present themselves and their ethno-genesis story.

In FYRoM, they teach their children pupils and students to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs...this is Makedonism, a Slavist based
expansionist Ideology. Makedonism in FYRoM is dangerous in the wrong hands, it demands Serbians and Bulgarians to ditch their ages-old ethno-tribal names for the Macedonian name, a name known to belong in the Greek domain, to a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples.

Nobody has tried harder to alter the demographic consistency
of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula than the Slavists of FYRoM.
They have worked tirelessly to change the ethno-cultural Identity of Macedonians from ethnic-Greeks to ethnic-Slavs without regret or an incline of shame. They have used state sponsored proaganda against Greece and the Greek-Hellenic peoples whilst they continue to use institutions of state to [brainwash] educate their own children on Makedonism. In FYRoM, state apparatus is used in the same manner as it was under Communism, strictly controlled, to keep the people there Ignorant and Ill-informed about their own ethnic and racial, cultural and linguistic origins.
Nick the Greek
User ID: 6488616
United Kingdom
08/24/2012 12:20 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The neighbours know them as Slavs. Demographers know them as Slavs. Ethnogenists know them as Slavs. Linguists know them as Slavs. Slavs know them as Slavs...we are talking about FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs ofcourse, the newly emergent peoples who only recently entered onto the world stage wanting to name themselves Macedonians and their country Macedonia, even though in antiquity, the Macedonians were known to be a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples.

FYRoM has presented Europe and the world a problem, never before witnessed in the recorded history of mankind. Here we have a clash between anthropologists and historians on the one side, and a conflict between ethnogenists and archaelogists on the other side. The question academics are asking in this: How can FYRoM, a newly established Slavic country consolidate a much covetted Macedonian-Identity with a Slavic heritage and backround.

It's a hard question to answer, especially at these scholarly and academic disciplines: (i) anthropology, (ii) archaelogy, (iii) history, (iv) ethnogeny, (v) philology and (vi) linguistics. In fact, at every single academic discipline known to man and science, the Macedonians are attributed with a Greek-Hellenic Identity.

It's hard then, to take FYRoM seriously when they tell the world they are Macedonians, the modern descendents of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. But as if this was not bad enough, they confound it still by claiming an ethnic-racial connection and a cultural-linguistic connection to them, when it is all but given, known at all the academic levels that these Identity factors do not bode well with South-Slavs.

Yes they are Slavs, on the basis Slavdom recognizes FYRoM as a Slavic country. Foolish then, for some in that country to deny that they are Slavs, in speech and in genous. It is known at the highest echelons of diplomatic office that in every Census-report, Population-statistics, Demographic-data and ethnology-records ever undertaken, actioned under the auspices of the Great Powers during the numerous upheavals witnessed in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs were listed as Slavs, from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

Spectacular failure on FYRoM's behalf, I mean, to attempt to persuade the outside world to take them seriously, when serious people [[academics][politicians]] know them as Slavs
and know Macedonians to be a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples who's ancestors spread Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic
language, knowledge and culture to the farthestmost regions of the then known ancient-world.

When FYRoM's Slavist orientated rogue-scholars, pseudo-historians ans specialist propagandists Rubbished the history and heritage of the Greeks...they also Rubbished the West and by extension, Western Civilization, on the basis, the bedrock, cornerstone and foundations of it are based on those Hellenic Ideals and core values the ancient-Macedonians exported eastwards to the orient and beyond.

Spectacular failure on FYRoM's behalf, to have taken-on, not just the Greeks but the international academic community, scholars that spent their professional carears disseminating Greco-Roman classicist history in the most prestigious learning instutions of the Western-world.

No amount of persuasion can convince the international community to recognize FYRoM as a Nation of Macedonians with ethnic-racial roots and cultural-linguistic connections to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. This is the harsh reality of it!

FYRoM's much vaunted Macedonian-Identity shall have to reflect in real and factual terms, that it is distanced both in geographic terms and racial terms from the Greek-Identity of those Greek speaking Hellenic peoples that still live inside the boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, in Northern-Greece.
Nick the Greek
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United Kingdom
08/25/2012 04:24 AM
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There are 4 Types of Macedonian: The Authentic Type, the 2 Slavic Types, and the Albanian Type.

1...The Authentic-Macedonian ofcourse is the Greek speaking Hellenic type. He remained loyal to Hellenism and still lives within the boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece.

2...The Slavic-Macedonians can be split into two groups: (i) Bulgarian-Slavs and (ii) ex-Yugoslavs.

3...The Albanian-Macedonian we can discount on the basis, Albanians are No Macedonians, they know it, we know it, and they say so. Albania is home to just 1% of geographic-Macedonia, the extended and enlarged region which just carries the name only, it has Nothing to do with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon. Some Albanians can self-Identify as Macedonians in the geographic sense but chose not to.

The list is 3 but 4 Types of Macedonian are there. Now that we have discounted the Albanian Type of Macedonian, we are left with (i) The Authentic Greek Type of Macedonian, plus (ii) The Bulgarian-Slav Type, plus (iii) The ex-Yugoslav Type. From those 3 we can discount the Bulgarian-Slav Type of Macedonian on the basis, Bulgarians are No Macedonians, they know it, we know it, and they say so.

From the 4 Types of Macedonian, we have discounted 2 Types on the basis, they just carry the geographic-regional name only. Albania is home to just 1% of it, and Bulgaria just 9%
of it. Albanians and Bulgarians are No Macedonians, they know it, we know it, and they say so.

From the 4 Types of Macedonian we have discounted 2 Types, therefore 2 more remain. The Authentic-Macedonians have to contend against a rival who has staked a claim to their ancient and archaic, regional-tribal name.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are a newly emergent peoples that acquired their Independence under dubious circumstances during the break-up of the old-Yugoslavia. In 1991, they entered onto the world stage wanting recognition as a Nation of Macedonians, on the basis, they speak Macedonian and live in a country called Macedonia...kick-starting off
a name dispute with Greece over who and who isn't Macedonian. After 21 years, the name dispute is still on-going!

Authentic-Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples from since the days of King Karanus, more then 3 Millenia into the past. Alexander I, the grand-father
of Alexander III the Great, declared himself Greek on record
whilst his grandson, years later, initiated a campaign to free the ancient-Greek cities in [Asia-Minor] the east that found themselves under the rule of the Persians.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs vie and compete with the Greeks over a name the Greeks have been using in the regional-tribal context from since Millenia into the past...So what posessed them, Slavic speakers from Serbian and Bulgarian stock to become contender to the Macedonian name when it is known at every single academic discipline, Macedonians have always been Greeks and Greeks have always lived in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs know none of this, that Macedonians have always been Greeks...for them, the Greeks are imposters, created by the West to cheat the Slavonic race from it's real true history and heritage in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula.

Greeks live next to Primitive TurkoSlavic peoples...both Turkics and Slavics work tirelessly to Rubbish Greeks and Hellenism and both of them plot to eradicate the host-culture from the Haemus peninsula, the primordial homelands of the Greek-Hellenic peoples from since Millenia into the past.
Nick the Greek
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08/27/2012 07:40 AM
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We know for certain that FYRoM is peopled by ethnic-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock. It is located in a region that in ancient times was called the Kingdom of Paeonia. The ancient-Peonians were not Greeks but they certainly were not Slavs, since the Slavic-tribes were known to have settled the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula sometime around the top-end of the 6th century A.D.

We know for certain that Macedonians have always been Greek
and that Greeks have always lived in Macedonia, the ancient-Kingdom. Strong historical evidence suggests that the ancient-Macedonians were of Doric stock like the Spartans, which makes them Greek. The Pella curse Tablet suggests that from the 5th Century B.C. onwards, the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon was a Greek speaking Kingdom, where worship of the Greek Pantheon was common practice...this point alone is in stark contradiction to the ancient-Kingdom of Paeonia located North of Macedonia, which practised pagan religion. Macedonians competed in the ancient Olympics games, self-Identified as Greeks and exported Hellenism, the Greek-Hellenic language knowledge and culture to the farthestmost points of the then known ancient-world.

FYRoM's claim...that they have resided in the region of Macedonia for 1,400 years automatically entitles them, gives them the right to call themselves Macedonian by the virtues of birth and location, flies in the face of what is actually known about them, that they are Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

To FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs I say this: Self-Identify as Macedonians in the Slavic sense and the regional-geographic sense, but dont take from the Greeks, elements from the cultural-heritage in order to pass them off as your own...these things never belonged to the Slavic race in the first place.
Nick the Greek
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United Kingdom
08/27/2012 10:25 AM
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FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are under the primitive impression they are free to chose their own National-Identity, and free to write their own National-history...this is how they see things. Whilst the right to choose ones own National-Identity is valid, ethical-codes and moral-codes dictate that one cannot simply infringe on other peoples rights, peoples who's regional-tribal Identity and National-history clash and confict with the Identity you have just chosen and the history you have just written.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are under the primitive impression they
are Macedonians on the basis they have lived in the geographic-region of Macedonia for 1,400 years from since the first settlements of their Avaro-Hunnic, Bulgaro-Slavic
ancestral-forebears. By the rights and virtues of land and birth, they consider they are entitled to Identify as they wish, as they feel and as they see fit. So they Self-Identify as Macedonians. At this juncture, one could be inclined to agree with their point of view, but all is not as it seems.

Yes, they have right to Identify as Macedonians in the geographic context, but they are not content with this...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to Self-Identify as ethnic-racial Macedonians, and cultural-linguistic Macedonians, and they want their National-history to reflect that.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are under the primitive impression they have ancestry rights to the ancient-Macedonians legacy,
so they scripted themselves a National-history which made ancient-Macedonians Slavic speakers and Alexander the Great a proto-Slavic hero. They named the ancient-Greek King of Macedon, Aleksandar Veliki and made him the first Czar of the Slavs.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are under the primitive impression they can do all this as of right...to Rubbish Greek history and belittle Hellenism with impunity and without consequences!

Greeks live next to primitive TurkoSlavic peoples who learned nothing in primitive school but Turkic based Turanid histories and Slavic based Slavist histories...just pseudo-historical fantasies which connect Turkics to ancient-Trojans and Slavics to ancient-Macedonians.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs abused the right of Self-Identification the moment they opted to name themselves Macedonians, their country Macedonia, their Nationality Macedonian, their Language Macedonian and their Ethnicity Macedonian...Ethical codes and Moral Codes should have kicked-in to stop them from using a Greek-Hellenic name
to Identity with in the ethnic-racial sense and cultural-linguistic sense, when it is all but given, these Identity factors do not bode well with Slavs.
Nick the Greek
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08/28/2012 02:24 AM
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The Macedonian name is a Greek-Hellenic regional-tribal name
first used by Greek speaking Hellenic peoples Millenia into the past, from since the days of King Karanus...applying it to South-Slavic peoples from Serbian and Bulgarian stock just flies in the face of what we know about them, that they are Slavs.

Applying the Macedonian name to a South-Slavic peoples does not make them Macedonians, at least, not in the ethnic or racial sense, nor does it make them Macedonians in the cultural-linguistic context, rather, it just simply makes them Macedonians in the geographic meaning of the word.

It makes them South-Slavs from Macedonia...or to be more precise, Serbians and Bulgarians from the greater region of Macedonia.

Real authentic Macedonians are the Greeks that still live within the boundaries of the old ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs calling themselves Macedonians is Ok with Greeks, but it riles Greeks and irks Greeks when these people taunt and mock Greeks and Hellenism respectively when they call themselves ethnic-racial Macedonians and cultural-linguistic Macedonians, when it is known at all the academic disciplines, they are none of these things.

To be Authentic-Macedonian, one needs to be Greek in the first place!

Other Macedonians exist and the Greeks ofcourse, realize that...that is why we strive for the day when FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs distinguish themselves from the real and proper Macedonians, the Greek speaking Hellenic ones.
Nick the Greek
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08/28/2012 04:58 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The Slavic Tribes according to Byzantine historiographers settled the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula sometime around the top-end of the 6th Century AD. From that time onwards, that peninsula became their home, accomodating many Slavic peoples who's tribal-collectives then went on to develop their own ephemeral empires inside the Imperial territories of Byzantium.

Today, the Haemus [Balkan] Peninsula is home to many Slavic Nations...South-Slavic countries in their own right. Six of them were spawned very recently, from the break-up and disintegration of the old-Yugoslavia who's communist federation housed them all. Yugoslavia was actually formed in 1918 as the Kingdom of Serbs, the Croats, and the Slovenes, after the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It was renamed to Yugoslavia in 1929. From this time onwards, right up until 1945 there was no Slavic country called Macedonia. It took a Croatian Communist dictator going by the name of Marshal Tito to create one.

After World War II, under the leadership of Marshal Tito, Yugoslavia became a Communist-led regime. On his death in 1980, Yugoslavia became unstable, the Communist party lost control there in 1990, and four of the six constituent republics (i) Slovenia, (ii) Croatia, (iii) Bosnia and Herzegovina, and (iv) FYR-Macedonia, declared independence a year later in 1991. Serbia and Montenegro, the last remaining states, abandoned the name Yugoslavia in 2003 and dissolved the federation entirely in 2006.

From this erratic political fluidity, instability, unpredictability and uncertainty...these Slavic country's now appear settled and wanting to carve out a future for themselves in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula. The only thing they share in common nowadays is Slavic their heritage, but for the exception of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, the only Slavic country amongst them which attempts to deny its Slavic origins.

From since 1991, when FYRoM entered onto the world stage, the people there have been told they are Macedonians with blood ties and ancestral roots to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Greece and the Slavic country's in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula view FYRoM as a country in transition and in need of a National-Identity...an Identity that can sit comfortably next to Greeks, Albanians, Serbians and Bulgarians without causing ripples!
Anonymous Coward
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Finland
08/28/2012 05:10 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Herodotus relates the incident of the participation of Alexander I of Macedon in the Olympic Games in 504 or 500 BC where the participation of the Macedonian king was contested by participants on the grounds that he was not Greek. The Hellanodikai, however, after examining his Argead claim confirmed that the Macedonians were in fact Greek and allowed him to participate.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Seems to me like the Greeks didn't consider the Macedonians Greek, but after investigation found out that at least the royals were Greek. On the other hand based on the wiki page it's possible they then extended this to Macedonians as a whole.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2012 05:11 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Nick the Greek.
clappa
Nick the Greek
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08/28/2012 05:54 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Herodotus relates the incident of the participation of Alexander I of Macedon in the Olympic Games in 504 or 500 BC where the participation of the Macedonian king was contested by participants on the grounds that he was not Greek. The Hellanodikai, however, after examining his Argead claim confirmed that the Macedonians were in fact Greek and allowed him to participate.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Seems to me like the Greeks didn't consider the Macedonians Greek, but after investigation found out that at least the royals were Greek. On the other hand based on the wiki page it's possible they then extended this to Macedonians as a whole.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4443279


They were Greeks! Ok!

They Walked like Greeks and Talked like Greeks, but they were viewed by the more sophisticated Southern-Greeks as somewhat unrefined Northerners...but Greeks nevertheless!

No modern-peoples on this planet are closer to them than todays modern-Greeks.

The path of least resistance which connects ancient-peoples to modern-peoples flows through the Greeks and nobody else!

Slavic peoples claiming ancient-Macedonians for their ancestors is an afront and an Insult to the Greek-Hellenic peoples.

This is crystal clear, right!
Nick the Greek
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08/28/2012 04:07 PM
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The Idea that in the year 1991, a Slavic population living to the North of Greece would go against the mainstream and Identify themselves with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon was never a consideration nor a possibility in the minds of the Greeks and some International strategists...on the grounds the racial difference between Greeks and Slavs would simply reject the Idea and not allow it to take root, but how wrong was that! With hindsight, the signals were there, and they should have been picked-up. In-fact, the vital signs were apparent as far back as in 1944 and 1945 respectively
when the Croatian Marshal Tito, the Communist dictator of Yugoslavia decided in 1944 to create a Macedonian-language
and then complimented that decision with the creation of a brand-new Socialist Republic of Macedonia just one year later in 1945.

What were the Greeks doing...Sleeping ???

No, the Greeks were Not Sleeping, they were fighting a bitter and fierce Ideological Civil War between Royalists and Communists. The Communists lost and fled Greece knowing full-well they would have faced charges of Treason and other crimes against the state. The Kingdom of Hellas lost more of it's population fighting the Communists than WWII fighting the Germans Italians and Bulgarians.

Greek Communists were willing to sell their Hellenic birthright to Slavs. Greek, Serb and Bulgarian Communists fought together to see the creation a Communist Macedonian state which if materialized, would have reduced Hellenic borders at Thessaly...enabling Bulgaria to take Eastern-Thrace and Slavdom to stake a claim to the Aegean Sea.

The Greeks fought bravely during WWII which reduced the country to poverty...Greeks fought more bravely immediately after WWII [1945-1949] during the Greek Civil War which devasted Greece more, utterly and completely.

Ask a Greek today, whether he trusts Slavs or Communists ???

The answer is predictable, right!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are the progeny of those Greek and Slavic Communists who fought together in an attempt to take Macedonia away from Hellas. That Greek Communist componant sold their Hellenic birthright to Slavdom...they were willing to see their own country of birth shrink in size, to expand Slavdom with a more enlarged Bulgaria buffered from Greece by a Communist Macedonia.

I say again: Ask a Greek today, whether he trusts Slavs or Communists?
insertfunnyusername

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08/29/2012 09:52 AM
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To end this silly non-debate, ex-prime minster of FYROM Georgievski, says that Alexander was Greek and that FYROM is the biggest counterfeiter of history today!






lollmao1rof1

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 08/29/2012 09:53 AM
Nick the Greek
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08/29/2012 02:55 PM
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Macedonians are Greeks from since the days of King Karanus.
The Macedonian-name is a Greek-Hellenic name on the basis it was first used by Greek speaking Hellenic peoples. If we are to accept that the primordial traits for categorizing tribal-affiliations, racial-characteristics, national-feelings and ethnic-pride are (i) written-language, (ii) religious-beliefs, (iii) racial-morphology, and (iv) culture-traditions, then there is no doubt...the ancient-Macedonians were Greek. They Walked like Greeks and they Talked like Greeks, be it with a Northern-accent and with a longer spear.

There are ways to prove Ownership over a name without having to Patent it first...this notion is a modern-concept used in modern-times to legitimize Ownership. Patents were not around during the Byzantine era but that did not inhibit Byzantine logic demonstrating Ownership. Greek ownership over that name was best demonstrated when the Macedonian-name was actually uprooted from it's original location and then shifted, lock stock and barrel to a completely new geographic location in Thrace...Theme-Macedonia tells all.

Had there existed a Patent-System during that time, the Byzantines would have Patented the Macedonian-name for certain, and for sole use.

Byzantine Logic governing Ownership over a Name...one needs only look at the New-World. There, you shall find European names transported over from the old-World to the New-World, mimmicking the same actions the Byzantines did, when they shifted the Macedonian name to a New location. Nobody dare
suggest Mississipi is Not a French Name, do they ???
insertfunnyusername

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08/31/2012 05:25 PM
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To end this silly non-debate, ex-prime minster of FYROM Georgievski, says that Alexander was Greek and that FYROM is the biggest counterfeiter of history today!






lollmao1rof1
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


More endless laughs coming!!
Seriously i pissed meself laughing with this one, what a sad sad bunch of counterfeiters, Bulgarian tv exposing the FYROM propaganda, with FYROM ex-PM, mayors, ambassadors talking about this madness.
They claim that they are a biblical land, that they invented the baroque of St.Peter in Rome, their gypsies call themselves the real Egyptians from the ancient times and they want to build a pyramid in their capitol about this, ex-pm calls Skopjie (capitol) a modern disneyland or Asterix in Paris, they even brought a dude with his wife from Pakistan with his wife calling them their king and descendants of Macedonians they gave him land too, loooool, crazy stuff. Recommended for everyone that had a rough day and wants a civilization laugh.
Press CC for english subs.



lollmao1rof1
Nick the Greek
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09/01/2012 05:43 AM
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The enlightened peoples of FYRoM...Yes, they do exist but in small numbers, they squirm at the Makedonist hysteria surrounding the fledgeling country's inexperianced approach at portraying, Illustrating, depicting and characterizing the country's National-Identity at the world stage level.

The enlightened peoples of FYRoM squirm at having to listen to their own country-men explain their ethno-origins in a multitude of ways...all them inconsistant and incpompatible with the previous one, making a total mockery out of the country's schools learning institutions and academies of state, including the scholars that teach in them.

The enlightened peoples of FYRoM writhe with agony at having to abide with constitional-policies which forbid them speaking-out about National-Identity matters...similar policies to those which have been enforced in the Turkish Republic for decades. In fact, in Turkey, the Turks forbid any talk or publication which can distort the country's written historical-narrative. Like their Turkish mentors, FYRoM's historians became mind-architects, specialist-propagandists and revisionist pseudo-historical rogue-scholars, they scripted a National-history that was so crude and so crass, it alarmed the worlds accredited historians proficient in the dissemination of Greco-Roman classicist history to reject it outright as revisionist pseudo-historical nonsense.

Like their Turkish counterparts, they wrote FYRoM a very unique National-history and nobody is permitted to alter it, question it, or distort what is written. Some of them regret ever taking part in that programme because of the damage it has caused them and their academic reputation.

The enlightened peoples of FYRoM squirm at having to now admit, that they were coerced under strict authoritarian conditions to take part in state initiated programmes to write FYRoM's pseudo-scriptures...which meant, rewriting the worlds long established mainstream historical-narrative to which all International accredited historians subscribe.

The enlightened peoples of FYRoM squirm with embarrassment at having to listen to their own country-men recite pseudo-scriptures they themselves were coerced into writing, under very strict authoritarian conditions. They realize now, the damage they have caused themselves and their country...they realize also that they cannot be absolved to free themselves from the guilt, the blame and the concequences of their actions.

The enlightened peoples of FYRoM squirm at having to admit they took part in one of Slavdoms greatest-most damaging actions against Hellenism and the Greek-Hellenic peoples...the concequences of which shall fester for years to come!

History cannot be undone simply by rewriting it!
Anonymous Coward
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09/01/2012 06:30 AM
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To end this silly non-debate, ex-prime minster of FYROM Georgievski, says that Alexander was Greek and that FYROM is the biggest counterfeiter of history today!






lollmao1rof1
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


More endless laughs coming!!
Seriously i pissed meself laughing with this one, what a sad sad bunch of counterfeiters, Bulgarian tv exposing the FYROM propaganda, with FYROM ex-PM, mayors, ambassadors talking about this madness.
They claim that they are a biblical land, that they invented the baroque of St.Peter in Rome, their gypsies call themselves the real Egyptians from the ancient times and they want to build a pyramid in their capitol about this, ex-pm calls Skopjie (capitol) a modern disneyland or Asterix in Paris, they even brought a dude with his wife from Pakistan with his wife calling them their king and descendants of Macedonians they gave him land too, loooool, crazy stuff. Recommended for everyone that had a rough day and wants a civilization laugh.
Press CC for english subs.



clappa

lollmao1rof1
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername
Anonymous Coward
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Turkey
09/01/2012 06:33 AM
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He was gay, so he must be Greek.
Nick the Greek
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09/01/2012 07:01 AM
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He was gay, so he must be Greek.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22468181


[link to english.turkcebilgi.com] including Alexander the Great

[link to english.turkcebilgi.com] The Greek King of Macedon

Now tell again Abdul!

He was Greek because Turkcebilgi On-line Encyclopaedia says so, right!

Now go Tell the Abduls Mehmetins and Gorans...

...Macedonians are Northern-Greeks Not Southern-Slavs!
Nick the Greek
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09/02/2012 05:31 AM
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Macedonians are Greek in the authentic sense and Slav in the geographic sense. The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain whilst Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage...these are the unshifting fundamentals understood at the highest echelons of diplomatic office.

That FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs perceive to have inalienable self-determination rights to that name goes far beyond their remit to exercise...for example: Simply acquiring, attributing or applying the Macedonian name to ones-self does not a Macedonian make because, to be Macedonian in the authentic sense, one needs to be Greek in the first place.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs tell us they have rights...by the virtues of land and by birth they perceive themselves to be Macedonian. By land and by birth they calculate, makes them ethnic-Macedonians in the racial sense, and in the cultural-linguistic sense on the basis, they live on Macedonian soil and speak a Macedonian-language.

Like I said before: Simply acquiring, attributing, applying that name to ones-self does not a Macedonian make...one needs to be Greek to be Macedonian, in the authentic sense of the word.

In reality...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not Macedonians by land. They are Paeonians by land, ask the professionals, accredited historians, that know about ancient-geography.

In reality...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs do not speak a Macedonian language. The name of their language is properly called Serbo-Bulgarian language, ask the professionals, accredited linguists and philogists that know about ancient-languages.

Because the Macedonian name was aquired and then attributed to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs in 1944 - 1945 respectively, they have learned to apply it to themselves, their land and their language when it is known, all but given...these Identity factors do not bode well with South-Slavs.

Like I said before: Simply Acquiring, Attributing, Applying the Macedonian name to ones-self does not a Macedonian make.

To be Macedonian, one needs to be Greek in the first place.
Authentic-Macedonians are the Greeks that remained loyal to Hellenism, and who still reside within the original boundaries of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece...

Can FYRoM ex-Yugoslavs really Rubbish This!
Nick the Greek
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09/02/2012 07:31 AM
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Much of FYRoM's Slavic-speaking population are of Bulgarian descent that evidently, still speak a Western-Bulgarian dialect...one might call them Former Yugoslavs of Bulgarian ancestry who consider Alexander the Great their ancestor.
These Slavic speaking peoples today are found claiming historical continuity to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, much to the dismay of the Greeks and the International academic community.

Greeks nevertheless, are still willing to concede that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs should continue to use the ethnonym Macedonian as regional definition, on the basis it should have a geographic-qualifier in front to distinguish them, to separate them and to differentiate them from the Greeks that still reside in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon in Northern-Greece.

Greeks consider as inappropraite...Slavic speaking peoples from FYRoM Identifying themselves with their autochthonous Identity on the basis of an acquired name.

The ancient-lands of Paeonia is where most of FYRoM sits on today. Their capital-city Skopje though, sits on ancient-Dardanian lands...it should be noted that these are places where Alexander the Great never set-foot, whilst in Greece, the modern Province of Macedonia there, still encompasses much the same territories as it did during antiquity.

FYRoM is the land of make-belief, where faux-historians, pseudo-historians and part-time archaelogists transform outright-lies into official history, where the mainstream reality is done away with and replaced with Makedonism, a Slavist based expansionist Ideology who's beginnings can be traced back to the advent of the Bulgarian-Exarchate.
Nick the Greek
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09/03/2012 05:43 PM
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As if the signals could be any more illuminating, the message they emit is crystal-clear. With FYRoM being Ignored, kept at arms length, kept at a distance, shoved-up a siding and generally treated like the great unwashed, the message those signals are sending out should be deciphered properly and understood at political level.

With the EU - UN - USA - NATO and the International academic community all saying the same thing...the message is absolutely clear. FYRoM must compromise in it's name dispute with Greece over the correct use of the Macedonian name.

Greece champions the mainstream view, that the Macedonian-name belongs in the Greek domain and Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek-heritage...two basic and unflinching positions Greece has maintained from since the start of the dispute. Greece has the support of those world bodies and global institutions listed above, in their eyes, Greece holds the moral high-ground.

It's hard to see where FYRoM can go to from here!

The answer ofcourse, is this: FYRoM goes nowhere, it stays where it is indefinately...shoved-up a siding, Ignored, kept at arms length, at a distance until the people there learn the truth about their ethno-racial, cultural and linguistic origins.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are proper bona-fide South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock, we know it, Serbs know it, and Bulgarians know it...It's time the peoples in FYRoM are told the truth, and in no uncertain terms where their real history and heritage lay.

Macedonians are Greek in the authentic-sense and Slav in the geographic sense.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs arbitrarily calling themselves Macedonians in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense is not only problematic...it is confusing, not least to their own children, pupils and students who have been raised to think of themselves as Macedonians and to think of ancient-Macedonians as Slavs.
Nick the Greek
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09/04/2012 02:17 PM
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Macedonia: Where Does FYRoM Go To From Here!

FYRoM goes Nowhere but back to school...back to revisit those classroom lessons to relearn important stuff about their past and about their origins, where they really come from and such like questions, but most importantly, they need to relearn their Slavic history and heritage.

The EU - UN - USA - NATO and the International academic community support Greece in regards to the long running name dispute between the two country's. In their eyes...Greece holds the Moral and Academic high ground.

So, where does FYRoM go to from here...absolutely Nowhere!

FYRoM stays exactly where it is...stuck up a siding, kept at arms length, at a distance until the people there learn the truth about their Slavic origins and about Slavic heritage.

Probing questions need to be answered in order for them to learn absolutely how both their origins and their heritage, cannot possibly interface with either Hellenism or antiquity.

The re-education of FYRoM must be outsourced...preferably to a friendly Slavic country willing to do the undertaking, only in this way could the children there relearn the truth about themselves their origins and their heritage.
Nick the Greek
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09/05/2012 04:44 PM
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If just one FYRoM-child out of a hundred, finds out the truth about himself, about his real ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic origins, how must that child feel, watching his paternal and maternal extended family-members confess their affiliations to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Lonely, very lonely and very alone, right!

If just one FYRoM-child out of a hundred, learns the truth about himself, about his Slavic history and heritage, how is that child supposed to react hearing his Mother and Father confessing blood-ties to ancient-Greeks.

Lonely, very lonely, right!

If just one FYRoM-child out of a hundred, bothered to self-teach himself the concise-history of the Greek-Hellenic peoples, how should that child react when he finds out his whole existence is based on a lie.

Lonely, very very lonely, right!

In FYRoM today, exists a sporadic number of enlightened young people who know...through their own academic efforts, through their own pursuits of universal knowledge, that the ancient-Macedonians were indeed and in-fact a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples.

How difficult must it be for these young people to see and hear their own country-men, their own Maternal - Paternal kins-folk discard their Slavic-heritage for a Hellenic one...one they cannot possible have on the basis of wrong race, and wrong language.

The ancient-Macedonians belong to the Hellenic race and their Centum language...the same!

How difficult must it be knowing this and not being able to express it inside your own country for fear of being cast anti-Macedonian!

In FYRoM today exists an ever increasing number of young enlightened individuals, who through their own academic efforts have learned the truth about themselves...they know
they are from Slavic stock and they also know about the Greek-Hellenic Identity of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.
Nick the Greek
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09/06/2012 02:49 PM
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Only one country holds the Moral and Academic high ground in the name dispute between FYRoM and Greece. It has to be said...the UN - EU - USA - NATO and the International Academic community support Greece on the matter. Those world bodies and global Institutions know that Macedonians have always been Greek and that Greeks have always lived in Macedonia, the ancient-Kingdom. There is really Nowhere for FYRoM to go with this! The Onus is on FYRoM to compromise in order to find a proper more suitable name for itself as a country. The people there could still call themselves Macedonians, as in Macedonian-Slavs, that live in a country called Paeonia for example...or Northern-Makedonija!

FYRoM has proven to be a very hostile country towards Greece, harbouring very resentful bitter people who do not shy away from showing their utter contempt for Greeks and Hellenism, spouting their anti-Hellenic jibes and anti-Western rhetoric at every given opportunity but these things just distance FYRoM further away from those Euro-Atlantic economic and security structures it says it aspires to join.

FYRoM has to resolve the name issue with Greece if the country is to join the West...that means they have to recognize and acknowledge that Macedonians are Hellenic in the authentic-sense of the word, and Slavic in the geographic-sense, as in, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs living in a geographic space called Macedonia where the people there
are not permitted to accentuate their ignorance by claiming ethnic-racial Identity from an otherwise geographic-Identity.

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