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Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

 
Nick the Greek
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12/23/2012 11:51 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Dorians by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus, the main Identity-factor applicable to the Macedonians of lore was the Hellenic one. The Slavic-peoples of FYRoM must be encouraged to learn that the ancient-Macedonians did belong to term Hellenic, in all of it's meanings, and that no other Identity-term can be applicable them - not the Illyrian one, and certainly not the Thracian one, on the basis: Macedonians are the Greeks that Hellenized the Thracian-tribes. The Epirot-Illyrian origins of his mother were as Hellenic on an equilibrium of his fathers side.

It must be stressed...The Macedonians of lore did belong to the Hellenic world and culture - to assign them a different Identity would be a travesty of what was writen about them in the mainstream historical narrative.

De-Hellenizing the Macedonians of lore and distancing modern-Greeks from them is what FYRoM does in it's learning institutions. Schools colleges and universities in that country are forbidden to use the Hellenic-term directly next to the Macedonian one...the two are kept seperate so that the children, pupils and students there do not make the connection between Macedonians and Hellenism.

FYRoM has used the country's state-apparatus to control what can and cannot be taught there. FYRoM has used state-sponsored propaganda directly, in it's classrooms and learning-institutions to promulgate the Idea that the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions reveal the long-lost language of the ancient-Macedonians before they adopted koine, the lingua-franca as they call it. For the rest of the learned-world - the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions were demotic Egyptian, but in FYRoM, they were coerced to learn something different.

The Macedonians of lore were as Hellenic as the Spartans of lore - Dorians to the core...Greeks by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus.

Should FYRoM be granted permission to rubbish this...and if they try - should the Greeks let them!
Nick the Greek
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12/24/2012 10:52 AM
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In reality FYRoM is not Macedonia. It has no historical connections with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, since the geographical area there, was known as Paeonia in antiquity. The Slavs of FYRoM never used the Macedonian-name for self-Identity until after 1945, when Tito, the Croatian dictator of Yugoslavia converted a province into a republic.

The Vardar-region of South-Serbia was renamed "Peoples Republic of Macedonia" changing to "Socialist Republic of Macedonia" a year later, in 1946. The political-regime in FYRoM use state-sponsored historical-propaganda to promote Slavist revisionism and pseudo-history.

State learning Institutions advance an ethno-genesis story which connects FYRoM's Slavic ancestors to the native Indigenous Macedonians, and through that mix - ex-Yugoslavs inherit the legacy of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon at the expense and exclusion of the Greeks.

FYRoM's ethno-genesys story is far too crude to be taken seriously, since the Macedonians of lore also mixed with the peoples of the Levant, and with Egyptians - Syrians - Persians - Sogdanians - Afghans - Hindus and many more besides...and that mixing was carried out much earlier, at an earlier epoch than the times of the Slavic incursions of Byzantium and the Greco-Roman world.

Evidently...FYRoM underestimated the worlds collective-Intelligence on matters Macedonian. FYRoM was never called "Macedonia" before WWII. This name was attributed to the Southernmost Yugoslavian province by the Croatian General Tito. On his will only, did the "Peoples Republic of Macedonia" come into existence. Before WWII - FYRoM was simply called Vardarska Banovina.

[link to www.myfightformacedonia.com] This is not a Macedonian - this is a South-Slav wanting to usurp a Greek-Hellenic name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes.

[link to ancient-macedonia.jimdo.com] This is not Linguistic Analysis - this is linguistic-Propaganda coupled with shameless revisionism and pseudo-history - the foodstuffs and the nourishment on which FYRoM sustains itself.
Perseus7

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12/24/2012 10:56 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
great stuff Nick, Hellas 4 Life. My mother is from Thessaloniki. Very beautiful there.

Last Edited by <%)oM34PrIm|(%>< on 12/24/2012 10:58 AM
1s 2s 2p 3s 3p 4s 3d 4p 5s 4d 5p 6s 4f 5d 6p 7s 5f 6d 7p
Nick the Greek
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12/27/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Only in the minds of some sick and twisted South-Slavic peoples from FYRoM - do they equate Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity with the Slavic-race.

Just because a bunch of wandering nomadic steppe peoples decided to make-camp on Imperial-Byzantine territories - FYRoM's Slavic ancestors pitched their tents, pissed on the grass and then called it home. This point must be stressed...they did not call their home Macedonia or themselves Macedonians at this time - this term they did not learn, or use, at the 6th Century AD. This was the time when the Slavic-tribes were recorded as having settled large swathes of Greco-Roman Byzantine territories. In fact, FYRoM's Slavic ancestors were still using their tribal names - names that were affilliated either to the Bulgar settlements or to the Serbian settlements.

The first time in recorded-history where South-Slavic peoples were noted for using the Macedonian-name - outise of it's regional-geographic conotations were in 1944 - 1945 - 1946 respectively.

1944 - was the year when Slavist philologists Serbianized FYRoM's Bulgarian-language and named it Macedonian-language - because it had 5 Serbian letters seeded into their Old-Church Bulgarian Cyrillic Alphabet, they named it Macedonian-language. The reasons for doing this become clear just one year later!

1945 - was the year when a Croatian, going by the name of Jozep Broz Tito, sanctioned the conversion of a South-Serbian province into a fully fledged republic - The Peoples Republic of Macedonia.

1946 - was the year when the same dicatator Tito, renamed his creation yet again - to The Socialist Republic of Macedonia.

The right of self-Identity and of self-determination are rights enshrined into the United Nations charter of human rights - but attributing FYRoM with an ancient and archiac - regional-tribal - Greek-Hellenic name is an insult to Greece and Greeks, not least, it puts to the test, the worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian.

In reality FYRoM Abused those rights - Slavists there found an opportunity and took a chance on naming themselves Macedonians - in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense, that is why they fight to have their new Slavic country recognized as Macedonia, they fight hard to have their Nationality recognized as Macedonian, their language and ethnicity also.

How smart do human-rights activists have to be - to figure-out that Greece has recognized historic rights over the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon. How clever do politicians have to be - to figure-out that by naming FYRoM to Republic of Macedonia, it would clash and conflict with academia and what is known about Macedonia in the mainstream historical narrative. How clever does a diplomat have to be - to figure-out that FYRoM is testing the West, playing around with it's new-found freedoms and rights - rights we take for granted in the West.

In reality, those global-politicians and world-diplomats initially supported the FYRoM cause, but now they hang their heads in shame at having to face Greece and Greeks. When Greece was telling our Western-Partners and European-Cousins that FYRoM is more Interested in propaganda which bad-mouths Greeks and character-assassinates the modern-Greek National-character...Greek concerns were not taken seriously!

Greeks realize that on the back of the name dispute
with FYRoM...every Greek-hating Man and his Dog went for the Greek Jugular. Greeks had their National-character assasinated - good and proper.

That Greeks witnessed their Country and themselves being thoroughly humiliated in symphony and in concerted effort was been duly noted. We now know from where they started and how they dispursed, and the Media concerns that made them front-page news.

Only in the minds of some sick and twisted Individuals from FYRoM and elsewhere - do they equate South-Slavs with Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. There is not one global-politician or world-diplomat that wiilingly admits to supporting the FYRoM cause anymore - the FYRoM cause died the day historian-scholars of the classics threw the gauntlet down in challenge to any of them that dispute the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity.
Nick the Greek
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12/28/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The two main people-groups of FYRoM are the Albanians and the Slavs...the latter form the majority. The Albanians there, see themselves like aboriginal-peoples of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, they do not consider themselves to be Macedonians. The Slavs - although descendants of 6th Century AD invader-settlers see themselves like Macedonians, they want recognition to go by this label even though it is known, they hail from Serbian and Bulgarian stock. It is also known that Macedonians are a Greek-speaking peoples of Hellenic-stock. The Slavic-speakers of FYRoM wanting to call themselves Macedonians causes confusion, since Macedonians have always been a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveals - the greater geographical area known today as Macedonia, accomodates three major people-groups: (i) Greeks, (ii) Slavs and (iii) Albanians. There is no historical justification for the Slavic people-group to monopolize the name, since the term denotes regional-geographic Identity, not ethnic-Identity and certainly not National-Identity.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveals - the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon to have been a Greek-Kingdom peopled by Northern-Greeks. Macedonians existed for thousands of years as a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples before the arrival of any Slavic speaking people-group. The Slavs showed-up in that area in the 6th Century AD, long after it had been Christianized and long after the Roman conquest of Greece. By calling themselves Macedonians, the Slavs of FYRoM covet an Identity that is foreign to their ethnic-racial people-group.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveal - the inhabitants of Macedonia were Christianized by Saint-Paul himself who spoke to them in their own Macedonian(Hellenic) language, not in the hybrid mixed Serbo-Bulgarian language that is spoken in FYRoM. The Slavs were Christianized by two Greek monks Cyril and Methodius almost a Millennium after the original Greco-Macedonians, in a language called old-Bulgarian or old-Church Slavonic.

Evidently - FYRoM underestimated the worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian...that is why they are kept at arms length, at a distance, until the people there learn the truth about Macedonians and about themselves.
Nick the Greek
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12/29/2012 07:35 AM
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Smart people know the Slavs of FYRoM to be disenfranchised Serbians and Bulgarians that have been sufficiently seperated from the main Serbo-Bulgarian core who are now in transition to forming a new Identity - they want that new Identity to carry the Macedonian label but for Greek objections!

Smart people know the Macedonians to be a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples from since the times of King Karanus, therefore FYRoM's new Identity cannot possibly carry this name for country, nationality, language or ethnicity.

Smart people know that FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity was engineered by a Croatian-Slav going by the name of General Josep Broz Tito when in 1944 he ordered Communist Slavist-philologists from the old-Yugoslavia to seed FYRoM's old (Bulgarian) language with 5 Serbian letters...the Idea was to create a new South-Slavic language they mischievously re-named Macedonian-language. It must be stressed here, there was No Macedonian-Language anywhere in the Slavic world before 1944 - it came to exist solely on the will of the Slavists that demanded it.

Smart people know that ethnicity usually follows the language name - Macedonian-language generates Macedonian-ethnicity by default.

Smart people know that nationality usually follows country name - a country named Macedonia generates Macedonian-Nationality by default.

The Croatian dictator of the old-Yugoslavia knew what he was doing when he created a Macedonian-language for the Slavs of FYRoM - he knew what he was doing when he created the Peoples Republic of Macedonia also. From two Identity factors you get two more for free...Country-Name begets Nationality and Language-Name begets Ethnicity.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs were ethnically-engineered and linguistically-manipulated to accept an Identity that was socially constructed for them solely on the will of the Slavists that demanded it.

Greeks are not to blame for FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs developing ethnic-pride and national-feelings which are foreign to their race and respective people-groups. Smart people know that the Slavs of FYRoM hail from Serbian and Bulgarian stock and cannot possibly harbour collective-memories for Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.
Nick the Greek
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12/29/2012 03:18 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
[link to en.wikipedia.org] Smart people know that the ancient lands of Paeonia is where FYRoM is situated right now - this place was Hellenized by the Macedonians almost 5 generations after the death of Alexander the Great. In fact, Paeonia was conquered in 217 BC under King Philip V, 106 years after the death of Alexander the Great. Any map that incorporates Paeonia into the Kingdom of Macedon before 217 BC is historically incorrect.

[link to www.eupedia.com] If the native peoples of FYRoM are found carrying the autochthonous genes which are typically found in the Greek [Haemus] peninsula - high frequencies of haplogroups E1b1b and J2, then this finding would make them descendents of Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be.

Smart people know - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are - told they are - or want to be!

Smart people know - Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.
Nick the Greek
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12/30/2012 07:25 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
In the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, the paleolithic - neolithic genetic footprint has been mapped. The peoples inhabiting the southern-part of the peninsula today slot into a genetic-signature which correlates to the Greek colonization of anitquity. Although many exogenous peoples settled or just passed through the region, their admixture has been absorbed into the more resiliant autochthonous gene pool.

In the Greek [Haemus] peninsula, the native autochthonous genes dominate, but that does not make the peoples there the same peoples - they differ on cultural and linguistic level, be it genetically they are similar and the same stock.

So what do genes and haplogroups define exactly - is it blood, race, ethnicity ?

I have always said: The genes modern-humans carry today may not reflect faithfully, their current ethnic-pride and current national-feelings - example is found in modern Britain.

Modern-humans residing in the British Isles are found carrying native Keltic ((Scots)(Irish)(Welsh)) genes but they attest to harbouring English ethnic-pride and National-feelings for England - expand this phenomenon to 4th generation assimilated Commonwealth citizens and you have the makings of philosophical question:

Question - What is it that makes you English ?

expanded

Question - What makes you who you are today in terms of how you self-Identify and how you self determine your ethnicity - nationality status.

It has been proven - Blood and Dna do not correlate to ethnicity. Ethnic-pride is something that is passed-on from one generation to the next - taught within the confines of ones paternal-maternal family to feel proud of ancestral achievements. Ethnic-pride can also be taught in local learning Institutions...good (knowledge based) schools or in bad (propagandist) ones.

When the ancient-Greeks Hellenized NoN-Greek populations - those populations Hellenized willingly and voluntarily adopting the Hellenic culture through choice. One can assimilate into a culture their genes and haplogroups were strangers to.

I return back to my original thesis: The genes modern peoples carry today may not reflect faithfully ones current ethnic-pride and national-feelings - examples are found all around us!

Peoples can be taught - in good knowledge based schools, or in bad propagandist ones, to harbour and hold dear, collective-memories, ethnic-pride, national-feelings...the best example of this phenomenon is FYRoM.

(link to en.wikipedia.org ) The ancient lands of Paeonia is where FYRoM is situated right now - this place was Hellenized by the Macedonians almost 5 generations after the death of Alexander the Great. In fact, Paeonia was conquered in 217 BC under King Philip V, 106 years after the death of Alexander the Great. Any map that incorporates Paeonia into the Kingdom of Macedon before 217 BC is historically incorrect. FYRoM reject their Paeonian ancestral base for a Macedonian one on the basis, they have learned to harbour collective-memories - ethnic-pride and national-feelings for Macedonian things.

If the peoples of FYRoM are autochthonous original Haemus peninsula natives, having never shifted from where they today - that would make them Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be.

Paeonians like the rest of the Haemus natives, sprang from a common gene pool. The ancient-peoples of the Greek [Haemus] peninsula shared similar genes and haplogroups but differed on cultural-linguistic lines until Hellenization.

FYRoM is Paeonia - a Haemus people. Hellenized - Romanized - Bulgarized - Slavicized - Turkified - and now, searching for Identity. The options are many but the choice is limited.
300
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12/30/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
What language did he speak? Probably both.
Nick the Greek
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12/30/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
What language did he speak? Probably both.
 Quoting: 300 30030895


[link to apiimages.nethelper.edgecaching.net] Here is the Macedonian language - an Indo-European Centum Greek-Hellenic language.

[link to nethelper.com]
Ancient-Macedonian language.

FYRoM's language is mischievously called Macedonian-language but only mischievously...in reality it is two Slavic languages fused together, properly called Serbo-Bulgarian language rather than the deceptive Macedonian-language those Slavist philologists christened it with, in the autumn of 1944 WWII, wartime Yugoslavia.

[link to www.brynmawr.edu] If
this illustrates the language of the Macedonians, then this
[link to www.omniglot.com] is not Macedonian - and should not carry the Macedonian name for language Identification.

The original language of the Macedonians = Centum Hellenic language

FYRoM's language = Satem Slavonic language, and should not carry the Macedonian name.

Slavist philologists Serbianized FYRoM's Bulgarian-language
with 5 Serbian letters and christened it Macedonian-language
which is a direct insult to Greeks and an under estimation of the worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian.

How bright does one have to get to fathom-out that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are - told they are - or want to be!
Nick the Greek
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12/30/2012 02:41 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonians are Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples - this is what Archaelogy and History teach us. Both academic disciplines support a Greek-Hellenic Identity for Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

FYRoM is Paeonia in terms of Archaelogy Geography and History.

In the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, we are all genetically similar - Haemus peoples sprang from same gene-pool, same genetic stock, so why do the peoples of FYRoM reject their Paeonian roots and ethnogenic origins.

Assuming the peoples there are natives from autochthonous stock and Identify more like Macedonians - what are they doing in Paeonia.

Paonians and Macedonians are Haemus Peoples...equally as ancient and derived from same native gene pool. Macedonians Hellenized the Paonians in 217 BC under King Philip V - by Identifying with Macedonians moreso than with Paeonians, the peoples of FYRoM are indirectly telling the world they are Greeks!

I say again: If the peoples of FYRoM are native to the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula...never moved or shifted from where they are today - that simply makes them Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be. Paeonians like the rest of the Haemus natives sprang from common gene pool, equally as ancient as the Macedonians sharing similar genes and haplogroups, but differing on cultural level and linguistic level until Hellenization.

FYRoM is Paeonia...a Haemus peoples. The historical record reveals that they have were initially Hellenized by the Greek speaking Macedonians - later Romanized, by the latin-speaking Romans - then Bulgarized, buy the Turkic speaking Proto-Bulgar tribes - then Slavicized, by the Slavic tribes
- and lastly Turkified, by the Ottoman-Turks.

Now they are searching for an Identity. The options for them are many but the choice is rather limited. The choice is between modern-Identity or ancient-Identity. A modern-Identity makes them Central-Balkanians whereas an ancient one simply makes them Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be!
Nick the Greek
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01/01/2013 09:13 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavic speaking Macedonians who attest to harbour ethnic-feelings and collective-memories for ancient-Greeks must hail from Greek or partial-Greek heritage - there is no other scientific way of explaning such predicament.

Slavicized Macedonians - but from Greek-Hellenic stock...this expalins it!

How else, can one start to explain the yearnings of some Slavic-speakers to want to form closer ties with their ancient-Greek speaking ancestral forebears.

How else, can one start to explain the adulation antics of some Slavic-speakers towards Alexander the Great, the Greek King of Macedon, his father King Philip, and ancient-Macedonians in general.

It's hard to imagine a peoples wanting to do these things for ulterior motives!

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs wants - to self-Identity and self-determine as Macedonians in the ethnic-racial sense, could only be explained satisfactorily within the framework of fraternal-bonds towards Helenism and kinship-ties towards Greeks.

How else can it be explained - Slavic-speakers professing to harbour ethnic-feelings towards Macedonians and collective-memories for ancient-Greeks.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs - some at least, must hail from Greek-Hellenic stock...from Greek maternal or paternal heritage.
Anonymous Coward
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01/01/2013 02:03 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Phrygian: daker

Meaning: `part of the monument' (?)

Attested forms:
daker Vez 5;
acc.sg. dakeran Vez 2;
acc.pl. (?) dakerais· ² Vez 7
acc.pl. (?) d·[a]k·erhj 116


Contexts:
Vez 5. va·y niptiyay daker karatu· -enps·atus´· meka· as·k·y
2. iben edatoy dakeran atriyas· ²da·v·o·i· v·r·e·k·an ak·i·van
7. kelmiske umnis· et·evr·adus dakerais· ²key iverais·
116. ... pinke taj d·[a]/k·erhj onomaniaij m·i·rou ik·/ k·naikan edaej `he has made (edaej) five (pinke) those (taj) parts (d·[a]k·erhj) mentioned (onomaniaij) of the funerary monument (m·i·rou) for the sake of (ik·) the wife (k·naikan)' (cf. Lubotsky, forthcoming)



Etymological comments: Although the contexts are not sufficiently clear, the meaning `part' seems indicated by 116. Etymologically, we may compare Gr. q»kh `case; grave, tomb', qhk£rion `little case'. Uncertain.

in mod Macedonian we have dukan = "a little store"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 737800




Deucalion is parallel to Biblical Noah and to Utnapishtim, the survivor of the Sumerian flood that is told in the Epic of Gilgamesh.[3][4] Deucalion's name comes from &#948;&#949;&#973;&#954;&#959;&#962; déucos, a variant of &#947;&#955;&#949;&#973;&#954;&#959;&#962;, "gleucos", "sweet new wine, must, sweetness"[5] + &#7937;&#955;&#953;&#949;&#973;&#962; haliéus "sailor, seaman, fisher".[6]

In Greek mythology, Deucalion (Ancient Greek: &#916;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#945;&#955;&#943;&#969;&#957;) was a son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia.[1] The anger of Zeus was ignited by the hubris of the Pelasgians, and he decided to put an end to the Bronze Age. Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, had sacrificed a boy to Zeus, who was appalled by this savage offering. Zeus loosed a deluge, so that the rivers ran in torrents and the sea flooded the coastal plain, engulfed the foothills with spray, and washed everything clean. Deucalion, with the aid of his father Prometheus, was saved from this deluge by building a chest (literally “chest” like the Bible's “ark,” which means “box”)[2] Like his Biblical equivalent Noah and Mesopotamian counterpart Utnapishtim, he uses his chest to survive the deluge with his wife, Pyrrha.



in mod Macedonian we have dukan = "a little store"


dukan
deucalion


The descendants of Deucalion and Pyrrha are below:
Hellen, Amphictyon, Orestheus, Protogeneia, Pandora II and Thyia are their children.
Aeolus, Aethlius, Dorus, Graecus, Makednos, Magnes, Xuthus are their grandsons.
Nick the Greek
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01/02/2013 03:10 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The originators of the Macedonian-name were Greek speakers of Hellenic stock. The Macedonians of old were a branch of the Dorian-Greeks, same as the Spartans...there were no ethnic or racial differences between them and other Greeks.

If Greeks ceased to be, expired and were not around today to claim their legacy or heritage rights - those names would still be confined to their memory...synonymous to Greeks. The Macedonians and Spartans would still be considered Dorian-Greeks, one of the four root races of Hellenism. Dorians - Achaeans - Ionians - Aeolians formed the Hellenic collective, each people-group speaking their own dialect of the Centum Greek-Hellenic language.

For a modern unrelated peoples to want the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes is unheard of, unprecidented and bad enough, but to want to go to the next level by naming your country - nationality - language and ethnicity after that name, is testament to the ignorance that prevails in FYRoM...low quality education there, has made the peoples ignorant of their own race, history, archaelogy and geography.

In FYRoM, the peoples there believe that the Macedonians of old were a part of the Slavic race, and that the history of ancient-Macedonia goes hand in hand with the history of the Slavs. The academic desciplines of history archaelogy and geography never willingly use the Macedonian term next to the Hellenic one, for fear of association between the two.

FYRoM made it clear to the world, that what was being taught in Yugoslavia was a Slavist-orientated revisionism of ancient-European history - a pseudo-history different to the mainstream historical narrative taught on the West. The Macedonians in Western mainstream history were Greek speakers from Hellenic Dorian stock but in Yugoslavia, they were proto-Slavs where Alexander the Great becomes Aleksandar Veliki - the first Czar of the Slavs.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs revealed to the world their ignorance of Western mainstream history - totally rejecting the Western version of classical Graeco-Roman history, they openly accuse the West for creating modern-Greeks in order to cheat the Slavic race from it's true history and heritage in the Balkans.

Greeks should not have to shoulder the burden of having to defend Hellenism alone - Hellenic Ideals and core values form the bedrock of Western Civilization...a Civilization worth defending!
Nick the Greek
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01/03/2013 12:23 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The Macedonian Name belongs in the Greek domain whilst Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage...this is the general consensus held across the academic world. Historian scholars of the classics know Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples, their name should stay in the Greek domain and their Identity should be recognized as belonging to Greek heritage - this is the general opinion held at the academic level and increasingly at the political-diplomatic level.

With an endorsement like this...how can any half-educated person deny the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity. For how long can FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs continue with their pretentious claims to harbouring a Macedonian Identity their ethnic and racial origin bears no real, earthly or meaningful relationship with. From Spain in the West to Georgia in the East - the peoples know Macedonians to be Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs should know the same, the reason they dont is to do with Slavist school education in the old-Yugoslavia.

Communists made South-Slavs Macedonians, by creating for them a brand-new Macedonian-language in 1944, followed by a brand-new Macedonian Peoples Republic in 1945.

Slavic children born under those strict authoritarian conditions came out the other side as fully fledged Macedonians - Communist Slavist style!
Nick the Greek
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01/03/2013 03:21 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Modern-Greeks do espouse language and culture connections to ancient Greece.

The expansion of Hellenic culture was largely due to Alexander the Great, Greeks have him to thank for that.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs speak a Slavic-language and espouse descent from him and ancient Macedonia. It is not that difficult to support the Greek position...who could find fault with what has been stated above.

It would make more sense to an outsider if FYRoM were to assert their identity and culture based on the modern Slav-Macedonian model rather than on the ancient-Hellenic model - with a qualifier in front of their name, "something-Macedonia " is far more sensible name than the acronym FYRoM.

When Greeks utilize all the political and academic tools made available to them, they use those tools to prove that Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples - they do not use those tools to deprive FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs from self-determining as Macedonians. There are boundaries though, and FYRoM crosses those boundaries every time they call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians" when there is no such ethnicity rooted in historical verity.

In all of the academic disciplines the Greekness of the Macedonians shines through - from the arts to the sciences, the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity is there. On Archaeology alone - unearthed pieces of broken pottery and other such things bunched together teach us, they provide scientific proof that a material-culture existed every bit as consitant and compatible with the Greek one. For how long can FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs continue to dismiss out of hand, the teachings of world academia.

From Spain in the West to Georgia in the East - people know Macedonians to be Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples. Can FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs continue with their pretentious claims to a Macedonian Identity their ethnic and racial origins bear no meaningful relationship with!

FYRoM trying to build a National Identity based entirely on fabricated history was always destined to fail. Greece espouses geographic, historic and cultural-linguistic connections to ancient-Macedonia...FYRoM does Not!

Based on the analysis above, FYRoM is not entitled to adopt the Macedonian-name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity, on the basis those Identity factors do not bode well with South-Slavs.
Nick the Greek
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01/04/2013 05:01 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org]
This is how Slavists from FYRoM see Macedonia - they see Greek territory belonging to them and Slavdom...rather than to Greeks and Hellenism.

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to Slavist revisionism and pseudo-history.

[link to www.makedonika.org]
A. Arnaiz-Villena - K. Dimitroski A. Pacho - J. Moscoso -
E. Go´mez-Casado - C. Silvera-Redondo - P. Varela - M. Blagoevska - V. Zdravkovska - J. Martý´nez-Laso

FYRoM used Genetic Propaganda - state sponsored, utilizing Spanish Haematologist to doctor the results of a unique genetic test which placed Greek genes in with an African cluster...the test was so unique it could not be replicated anywhere else in Europe. The names of those who took part are known to us!

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to badmouth and belittle Greeks - Greece and Hellenism.

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM's children pupils and students are taught that the latest scientific genetic research conducted by the University in Madrid, Spain concluded that the Macedonians are direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians, while the Greeks are unrelated to European origins and to the "older" Mediterranean substratum to which Macedonians belong to.

[link to www.makedonika.org] FYRoM sponsored rigged genetic test which teaches young Slavic children to think of themselves as direct descendents of the famous Macedonians from antiquity.

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to the wanton Indoctrination of whole generations of Slavic children.

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] The Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia, and the Macedonian minorities in Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania, continue to proudly call themselves "Macedonians" and consider the "Slav" label an insult and racial slur.

FYRoM's children pupils and students are taught to consider the Slav label as something insulting.

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM Propaganda Website dedicated to the destruction of their own children pupils and students.

Propaganda works in two ways - for you or against you. In FYRoM's case it is clearly working against...see here:

[link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] FYRoM Propaganda Website
set-up to badmouth Greece and to assassinate the National-Character of the modern-Greek - dedicated to the complete de-Hellenization of Macedonia...only then, when that aim has been achieved can the Slavs of FYRoM start to claim Macedonia for Slavdom. But things have not gone the way Slavists planned!

Something Slavists did not cater for, was the way their revisionism and pseudo-history took on a momemtum of it's own. In what is now seen as a completely natural process - the processes that went into de-Hellenizing Macedonians have been balanced-out by processes that de-Slavicize them.

The forces that de-Hellenize Macedonians have been cancelled-out by the forces that de-Slavicize them...making FYRoM a surreal place - a disneyland wonderland, a Theme-Park where ancient-Greeks things get mixed-matched and blurred with Slavic things.

FYRoM's Propaganda works against FYRoM - an unforeseen and uncatered for phenomenon which occured naturally - under completely natural conditions. The forces which attempted to de-Hellenize Macedonians created the conditions to de-Slavicize them also.
Nick the Greek
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01/04/2013 07:06 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
In an effort to establish FYRoM a unique National-Identity of it's own centered around the Macedonian-name, FYRoM's mind-architects had to de-Hellenize Macedonia first. The process of de-Hellenization brought about the conditions for de-Slavicization also.

At every attempt made to de-Hellenize the ancient-Macedonians - it was pointed out to FYRoM's mind-architects that Macedonians were not Slavic.

The de-Hellenization process initiated to strip the ancient-Macedonians from their Greek-Hellenic Identity created the conditions for the de-Slavicization of the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM.

Slavists from FYRoM used revisionism and pseudo-historical propaganda to make Macedonians out of South-Slavs, but the process took on a momemtum of it's own. The forces of de-Hellenization ended-up being balanced-out by the forces of de-Slavicization.

In an effort to make Macedonians NoN-Greek...it was necessary to make them NoN-Slavic also!

In FYRoM today, one can stand next to an ancient-Greek statue balanced-out by a medievil Slavic Bulgarian one!

The ultimate affect makes people dizzy, it makes outsiders think of the place as a kind of disneyland paradise...a cheap and chearful Theme park where FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are supposed to enjoy their new found unique, kitch-style National-Identity.

Only in FYRoM can one confuse the Greek Identity of the ancient-Macedonians with the South-Slavic one attributed to the peoples there.

Big lessons have been learned - No amount of propaganda can erase FYRoM's Slavic Identity...by the same token, No amount of historical-propaganda can erase the Greek-Hellenic Identity of the ancient-Macedonians.

FYRoM's Identity is Slavic, an unerasable Identity, an Identity for life...not to be confused with the Greek Identity of the Macedonians from antiquity.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 07:25 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
I heard he was from Iran
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13058444
United States
01/04/2013 07:56 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
so Nick in all you say, it looks like he was Slav, eh?

Now it make sense why he was called the Alexander of Macedon, The King of Macedonia.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 08:50 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
so Nick in all you say, it looks like he was Slav, eh?

Now it make sense why he was called the Alexander of Macedon, The King of Macedonia.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13058444


Good one young padawan yoda

The ancient Greeks hated it so much that linked our word Slava(Glory) into modern language word slave as a linguistic trick for centuries to come...

well,fukitol ;



" A general who became a slave. A slave who became a gladiator. A gladiator who defied an emperor "


Slava(Glory)to Alexander Macedonian the truly Glorious Slav

Nick the Geek U can't touch this,



but we all know that U will stir it up stirand keep framing it.
Nick the Greek
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01/05/2013 12:50 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Many countries in Europe are protective of their own native indigenous ethnic-names...Greece is no exception!

Names are important - more important if they are ethnic-names and indigenous to the lands and peoples that originated them.

[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] Did you know? Baby names have to be approved by the state in Germany,Denmark, Iceland and others.

In light of this seemingly petty naming issue...FYRoM's name dispute with Greece just got relegated to insignificant!

In the European view - ethnic-names are important to the native indigenous people-groups that originated them....so important they are protected by law!

Greece was right all along...defending and protecting one of it's ancient and archaic, regional-tribal names.

FYRoM's name dispute with Greece is a NoN-dispute...the Macedonian-name originated from Greek speaking Hellenic peoples, and they have right to keep it in the Greek domain.

Who, in Europe could dispute it!
Anatolian
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01/05/2013 01:18 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Phrygian: daker

Meaning: `part of the monument' (?)

Attested forms:
daker Vez 5;
acc.sg. dakeran Vez 2;
acc.pl. (?) dakerais· ² Vez 7
acc.pl. (?) d·[a]k·erhj 116


Contexts:
Vez 5. va·y niptiyay daker karatu· -enps·atus´· meka· as·k·y
2. iben edatoy dakeran atriyas· ²da·v·o·i· v·r·e·k·an ak·i·van
7. kelmiske umnis· et·evr·adus dakerais· ²key iverais·
116. ... pinke taj d·[a]/k·erhj onomaniaij m·i·rou ik·/ k·naikan edaej `he has made (edaej) five (pinke) those (taj) parts (d·[a]k·erhj) mentioned (onomaniaij) of the funerary monument (m·i·rou) for the sake of (ik·) the wife (k·naikan)' (cf. Lubotsky, forthcoming)



Etymological comments: Although the contexts are not sufficiently clear, the meaning `part' seems indicated by 116. Etymologically, we may compare Gr. q»kh `case; grave, tomb', qhk£rion `little case'. Uncertain.

in mod Macedonian we have dukan = "a little store"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 737800




Deucalion is parallel to Biblical Noah and to Utnapishtim, the survivor of the Sumerian flood that is told in the Epic of Gilgamesh.[3][4] Deucalion's name comes from &#948;&#949;&#973;&#954;&#959;&#962; déucos, a variant of &#947;&#955;&#949;&#973;&#954;&#959;&#962;, "gleucos", "sweet new wine, must, sweetness"[5] + &#7937;&#955;&#953;&#949;&#973;&#962; haliéus "sailor, seaman, fisher".[6]

In Greek mythology, Deucalion (Ancient Greek: &#916;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#945;&#955;&#943;&#969;&#957;) was a son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia.[1] The anger of Zeus was ignited by the hubris of the Pelasgians, and he decided to put an end to the Bronze Age. Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, had sacrificed a boy to Zeus, who was appalled by this savage offering. Zeus loosed a deluge, so that the rivers ran in torrents and the sea flooded the coastal plain, engulfed the foothills with spray, and washed everything clean. Deucalion, with the aid of his father Prometheus, was saved from this deluge by building a chest (literally “chest” like the Bible's “ark,” which means “box”)[2] Like his Biblical equivalent Noah and Mesopotamian counterpart Utnapishtim, he uses his chest to survive the deluge with his wife, Pyrrha.



in mod Macedonian we have dukan = "a little store"


dukan
deucalion


The descendants of Deucalion and Pyrrha are below:
Hellen, Amphictyon, Orestheus, Protogeneia, Pandora II and Thyia are their children.
Aeolus, Aethlius, Dorus, Graecus, Makednos, Magnes, Xuthus are their grandsons.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24162588

B.S

In Turkish language its 'dukkan' and have the same meaning...a little store.That word is not hellenic by origin but semetic.

Arabic - dukkan, dukan - workbench, a store in bazaar

Aramaic - dukana - platform,bench

Akadian - dakkannu - platform,bench,table

Sumerian - dagana - a kind of bench or platform
Nick the Greek
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01/05/2013 01:45 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] Names are worth defending - especially if they are native and indigenous to the people-groups that originated them in the first place.

Greece has been defending one of it's ancient and archaic, regional-tribal names for over two decades now...FYRoM disputes and contests the Macedonian names Greek-Hellenic credentials - for them in FYRoM, they want the Macedonian name to describe their country, nationality, language and ethnicity when all of those Identity factors do not bode well with Slavs.

The originators of the Macedonian name were Greek speakers and Hellenic peoples - and they want to protect that name in order to keep it in the Greek domain.

Names are important - more important if they are native to the peoples that originated them in the first place.

[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] Did you know? Baby names have to be approved by the state in Germany,Denmark, Iceland and others!

People-names and Place-names are important to Europeans...important enough to protect by law!

FYRoM's name dispute with Greece just got relegated to insignificant!
Nick the Greek
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01/06/2013 06:15 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Greece is not the only country in the world that vigorously protects it's native indigenous place-names and people-names - others do it too, they even enshrine that protection in their statute books...see here:

[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] The news in this link provides a new dynamic to long running name
dispute between FYRoM and Greece.

Whilst it was known that these traditions exist in some countries, it was not made common-knowledge, more serious - it was not known that these ethnic indigenous names, native to the lands and the peoples that originated them were protected in law.

Ethnicity is a very difficult subject to discuss, modern-ethnicity and it's application in todays modern and complicated world is even harder to discuss because it brings to the fore, modern concepts about the subject.

If the measure of ethnicity was calculated on the factors of "language" and of "feelings" then on that basis, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs can defend their want to self-Identify and to self-determine the way they feel and the way they see fit, as Macedonians...but it must be stressed here that these concepts are modern ones and cannot be linked on an erroneous basis to historical Identities that existed before biblical times.

[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] Ethnic names
that are native and Indigenous to the places and the peoples
that originated them have right to protect them...example is provided in the link.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs calling themselves "ethnic-Macedonians" is a modern-phenomenon which is not not rooted in historical verity, there is no historical basis for such ethnicity to exist, it is purely a recent-concept post 1944, the year during WWII, when Communist-Slavists decided to invent a new South-Slavic language they called "Macedonian-language" for politically inspired, Ideological expansionist reasons. It must be stressed here that this new South-Slavic language cannot be traced back to the Macedonians of lore - the famous Macedonians from antiquity.

There was no ethnicity called Macedonian pre 1944, it is purely a recent-invention, a modern-phenomenon measured on the basis of "feelings" and of "language" - these are ofcourse, modern-concepts of Identity...factors which are, in FYRoM's case, bolstered by the twin pillars of revisionism and pseudo-history.

It was known in the old-Yugoslavian Communist school of propaganda, that language-name generates ethnicity and that country-name generates nationality...Belorussia was born this way - Slavists knew that they could create a NoN-Greek Macedonian Nation peopled by South-Slavs that would speak Macedonian and live in a country called Peoples Republic of Macedonia. It must be stressed here that ethnic-Identity in the modern-age is based on feelings and language-name, if you get these two factors configured, you are half-way there to creating a new ethnos. The other two factors are country-name and nationality-name, we have learned from Slavists, you only need the first-one to generate the second-one.

[link to www.ashtarcommandcrew.net] Names are important to Europeans - more important if they are native and indigenous to the places and the peoples who generated them and originated them in the first place...example is provided above.

Greece was right all along when it defended the use of one of it's own unique native indigenous peoples-name and place-name. The Macedonian name originated under Hellenic skies from Greek speaking Hellenic peoples - Nobody but the Greeks have right to it's useage.
Nick the Greek
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01/07/2013 03:38 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Many countries that criticized Greece in the past, regarding
the name-dispute issue between FYRoM and Greece have been found to practice name protection themselves. Those countries that recognized FYRoM under the native indigenous Greek-Hellenic name of Macedonia, should reconsider their positions after it was made common-knowledge that some of them practise name protection, enshrined in statute.How can Hungary Sweden or Iceland consolidate their practise of name protection with their decision to recognize FYRoM as Macedonia - a native indigenous people-name and place-name attributed to a historical people-group of ethnic Greek stock. Greece has right to point-out to them the double-standard. European names are important to Europeans - so important some countries practise name protection and enshrine it in law. Greece is not the only country in the world wanting to protect it's own unique native indigenous people-names and place-names - others do it too.
[link to www.legislation.govt.nz] Flags, Emblems, and Names Protection Act 1981
If New Zealand can do it - Greece should do it also!

[link to www.wipo.int] Article 6ter of the Paris Convention Protection of State Emblems, and Names, Abbreviations and Emblems of International Intergovernmental Organizations

The protection of Names Flags Emblems etc, is common place in Europe and beyond...yet some countries had the front to criticize Greece when Greece protected Macedonia as an ethnic indigenous name belonging to a historic people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. FYRoM does not have right to use this name under the normal conventions.

[link to www1.umn.edu] “Indigenous peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs shall struggle proving indigenous-autochthonous status to the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula as South-Slavs when it is known, the Slavic tribes were exogenous settlers to the peninsula rather than native indigenous peoples to it. And if by genetic studies of the population there, the peoples are attributed autochthonous status - what would that finding actually imply ? Paeonians maybe ? Slavicized Paeonians, by virtue of the fact they speak Slavic...but who named their language "Macedonian-language" and why did they do that ?

If the right of self-determination refers to the democratic freely chosen political and economic orientations of governance, in a newly established country - then the right to self-Identify is a completely different issue which is not covered under the self-determination right. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs wanting to self-Identify as Macedonians contrevenes the rights of Greeks. The Macedonian name is protected like intellectual property belonging to the Greeks. Macedonians are a native-indegenous, historic people-group of ethnic-Greek stock...their name belongs in the Greek domain and their Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

As we have recently learned - People-names and Place-names are protected in many countries around the globe...Greece is no exception.
Nick the Greek
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01/09/2013 02:22 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Why do the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM want a Greek-Hellenic name to self-Identify with. The Macedonian name originated under Hellenic skies from Greek speaking Hellenic peoples...the name is protected under the normal conventions. Greece practices name protection the same way other European countries protect their ethnic native and indigenous names. Ethnic-Names, People-Names and Place-Names are important Identity factors to the people-groups that originated them in the first place - those peoples expect the state to protect their regional-tribal names.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples...a historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. Macedonians have right to keep the Macedonian-Name in the Greek domain. There is no historical justification for the Slavic peoples of FYRoM to monopolize the Macedonian-name, since the term denotes regional-geographic Identity not National-Identity.

FYRoM's actions to date have far exceeded the Wests worst possible fears about Balkan peoples. Western expectations were geared to see FYRoM integrate into the EU and NATO where it could be placed on a pedestal as a shining example of ethnic-tolerance and harmony. In reality FYRoM let the side down, they let everybody down - all those who backed sponsored and supported the FYRoM cause were left holding the baby so to speak. FYRoM's prime-directive and only interest was to usurp the Macedonian-name by hook or by crook...ridiculing the Greeks and Hellenism in the process, but they couldn't ridicule this:

Dorians by origin by blood, by speech and by genus - the main Identity-factor applicable to the Macedonians of old was the Hellenic one. The Macedonians were as Hellenic as the Spartans, Dorians to the core...Greeks by origin, by blood, by speech and by genus.

The Slavic speakers of FYRoM do not connect to the Dorians - they connect directly to Serbians and Bulgarians, by origin, by blood, by speech and by genus.

I say: Protect Hellenism - Protect Your Heritage!
Nick the Greek
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01/10/2013 12:26 PM
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Macedonians are an ancient historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock - so why are the Slavic speaking peoples from FYRoM so determined to use a Greek-Hellenic name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes...the answer ofcourse is indoctrination. Young Slavic children reared to believe in Slavic Macedonia and Slavic Alexander the Great from since antiquity. Slavists from the old-Yugoslavia destroyed the lives of generations of Slavic children tuitioned on bad Ideas - Ideas ancient-Macedonians were Slavs.

Like in the game of chess...FYRoM's Indoctrinated young people can be checkmated in a historical debate game of chess by two simple moves.

The first move is to show them the abundance of accumulated archaelogical evidence which places the Macedonians of old in with the Greek speaking Hellenic collective of peoples, then awaite a reply.

The reply is always the same, text-book and repetitive - the Macedonians of old spoke the Hellenic-language on the basis it was the lingua-franca language for trade and commerce, Macedonians were not Greeks because they spoke their own Macedonian-language by which they mean and refer to their own current language called Macedonian.

The second move in the historical debate game of chess, puts
them in checkmate, on the basis...FYRoM's so called Macedonian-language cannot be traced back further than 1944.
Before 1944, there was No such language, No Macedonian-language existed. FYRoM's current language is a mixed hybrid Serbo-Bulgarian language, a concoction Communist Slavists from the old-Yugoslavia christened Macedonian-language.

Slavists destroyed FYRoM's youth - the children pupils and students there have been reared on bad Ideas and fabricated history. They have become expert on making fools of themsleves every single time they enter into historical debates about their ethno-origins, history and heritage
Nick the Greek
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01/11/2013 03:36 PM
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FYRoM's ancestral-forebears are those Slavic tribes that were recorded in the historical archives as having settled the Eastern-Roman Empire during the dark ages from 6th - 9th Century AD. FYRoM's Slavic ancestors were the Berziti, Draguvites, Ezerites, Melingoi, Recchines, Sagudats, Smolyani, Strymonites, Velegesites, Zagorites...none of them self-determined as Macedonians, that term was unheard of, foreign to them. The Idea that native Macedonians cross-fertilized with Slavs and through this union were absorbed into the Slavic Milieu, is an opprobrius Idea given that the demographic composition of Byzantium during the Slavic incursions was made-up of Greek-speakers that self-Identified as "Romioi" Eastern-Romans. The Macedonian term, along with some other ancient-Hellenic regional-tribal names were ditched in favour of the universal supra-National term Romioi...meaning Roman. Any mixing that may have occured - occured with Greek speaking Eastern-Romans...not Macedonians. The Eastern-Roman (Byzantine) Empire absorbed multitudes of exogenous NoN-Greek peoples into it's dominion and Hellenized them, this is a recorded fact. The Greek element - the catalyst, the binding force which connected the Romioi and the Hellenized-peoples of the empire back to the golden-age, before Rome, to Athens...an epoch where Hellenic Ideals and core values set the standards for civilization and enlightenment.

After 1,400 years living next to Greeks - the modern descendents of those Slavic tribes consider it their right to describe themselves as ethnic-Macedonians, they also want to Identify as Macedonians in the cultural-linguistic sense also! Greece cannot possibly recognize FYRoM as Macedonia on the basis, there has never existed a Macedonian Nation outside of Hellenism. Through Greek eyes, FYRoM is seen as an artificial creation of Comrade Tito, the Croatian dictator of Yugoslavia. In an effort to bolster territorial claims against Greece, Tito baptized a milieu of Serbo-Bulgarian South-Slavs with a Greek-Hellenic name.

Greece, from the very beginning held the academic and moral high ground on the basis...the International academic community support and endorse the Greek-Hellenic Identity of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. Macedonia is a Greek name - it originated from Greek speakers under Hellenic skies. Todays Greeks claim quite legitimately, custodial responsibility for the ancient-Macedonian legacy.

The Hellenic Republic is the successor state of the old Byzantine Empire, this fact makes modern-Greeks the cultural-inheritors of that Imperial legacy. Through the Byzantines, modern-Greeks connect back to ancient-Greeks in backwards-compatible well documented fashion. Todays Greeks get their heritage from the Byzantine-Greeks. The Byzantine-Greeks got their heritage from the ancient-Hellenes. The Hellenes got their heritage from the Mycenean proto-Greeks.

Modern-Greeks connect to previous-Greeks in backwards-compatible, well documented fashion. We want our neighbours to recognize...Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples, their name belongs in the Greek domain and their Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

Todays Greeks are the sole and legal heirs and inheritors of the (Byzantine) Eastern-Roman legacy. The path of least resistance flows through the Greek path - it connects modern-Greeks to Byzantium, and through them Greeks connect to an older heritage...the Hellenic one. FYRoM spent the last 21 years trying to persuade the outside world to accept them as the modern legitimate heirs to the ancient-Macedonian legacy when there is nothing Macedonian about them. Macedonians are Dorian-Greeks - an ancient historical, regional people-group of ethnic-Greek stock.

What do the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM have to do with Dorian-Greeks ?
Nick the Greek
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01/12/2013 03:37 PM
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The ancient-populations of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula were known to us - Thracians, Illyrians, Hellenes. From these root-races the Hellenes proved to be the more resiliant, in essence, the Hellenic culture became the dominant culture of choice, the Thracians and Illyrians assimilating into Hellenism and fusing into one common collective gene-pool.

The genetic make-up of the peoples there, up to the coming of the latin-speaking Romans could be construed as being rather stable, constituting common racial elements from those three native, original, autochthonous people-groups.

The Roman conquest of Greece added a latin flavour there, some peoples of the Haemus Romanized...the Jirecek line delineated the divide between the Hellenized parts of the Haemus from the Romanized parts, marking out the Greek speaking areas from the latin-speaking Romanized areas. [link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org] Josef Jirecek was a Czech historian, diplomat and slavist.

After the Roman infusion came the great migrations and the peninsula witnessed many exogenous peoples settle on Imperial Byzantine territory.

From since medievil times, the demographic constitution of the Southern part of the Balkan (Haemus) peninsula stabilized to accomodate just three ethnic-racial cultural and liguistic people groups - namely the Greeks, Slavs and Albanians. The peninsula is home to this synthesis of peoples, with a fourth Turkish ingrediant added later, from since the 14th Century AD.

The primary countries that exist today as Independant nation states in their own right, play host to minority people-groups from neighbouring nation states...assimilated or not. FYRoM, the newest element constitues more or less it's neighbours ethnic populations - Albanians, Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks, with other lesser minorities also.

The demographic constitution of the Southern Balkan (Haemus) peninsula has been rather stable from since the coming of the Turks. The peninsula plays host to a common collective gene-pool from which many nations have sprung.

From that milieu...the Greeks see themselves as carrying the oldest known primordial autochthonous genetic signature recorded in the region and have the necessary anthropological, historical and archaelogical documentation to prove that.