Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

Names can be adopted, and imposed...but not Identity. Macedonian Identity on FYRoM is an indulgence! FYRoM Identity is Slavic - the two are inextricably linked. Only a hardened propagandist, or a severely brainwashed individual would equate FYRoM to Macedonia and the Slavs there to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Macedonian Identity is Hellenic - the two are inextricably linked. Macedonians are the Greeks that continue to practice their self-determination right in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors. Macedonians have been walking and talking Greek-style for >3 Millenniums...from since the days of King Karanus 778-808 BC.

The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage - True, even if there were no Greeks to claim those things. Applying those things to FYRoM...a Slavic country, is pure political-indulgence!

People-Names belong to the people-groups that created them in the first place...if not by copyright then by acknowledgement and recognition at least.

Macedonian Identity is Hellenic - the mould was cast and set >3 Millenniums ago. Identity is not transferable. Root-Identity does not cross-over ethnic-racial, cultural-linguistic boundaries...it stays with the people-group(s) that created it in the place.

Macedonians are the Greeks that continue to practice their self-determination right in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors.

FYRoM should recognize and acknowledge that the name they adopted for country-name belongs in the Greek domain, and the Identity that is associated with it belongs to Greek heritage. FYRoM cannot take an adopted name to the levels of Nationality, Language and Ethnicity.

Macedonians are the northernmost Greeks. To the east of them, Thracians. To the north of them, Paeonians. To the west of the Macedonians and north of the Paeonians, Illyrians. These were the paleo-native peoples of the Haemus peninsula in antiquity.

From the danube river southwards, Hellenic culture prevailed. Thracians Hellenized willingly and voluntarily, and so did some Illyrians. Paeonians came into the Hellenic world as brother-peoples, a sister nation.

The Haemus peninsula became known as the Greek peninsula, for the dominance and resiliance of Hellenism, the host culture, prevailed there for centuries until the coming of the Romans. After the latin-Roman conquests of the Haemus and the subsequent political administrative Romanization of the area, the Paeonian line stayed loyal to the native host culture, that is to say, stayed Greek, in speech, in culture, and tradition.

The demise of latin-Roman Imperial influences in the east gives way to Greco-Roman ones. The Haemus [Greek] peninsula now hosts the empire of the Eastern Romans. Constantinopolis becomes the new Rome and Greek Orthodox Christendom becomes the religion of the Byzantine empire.

Lest we forget...FYRoM sits on Paeonian soil.

In order to preserve historical integrity, the coming of the Slavs to the Haemus [Greek] peninsula is recorded at 6th Century AD, after the Goths and after the Huns. FYRoM is not Macedonia and people-dynamics dictate that FYRoM is Slavic now, in speech and in genous, in culture and tradition, but lets not forget that FYRoM's Pre-Slavic population was Greco-Roman, with culture and loyalties to match.

Macedonians are the northenmost Greeks. To the east of them, Thracians. To the north of them, Paeonians. To the west of the Macedonians and north of the Paeonians, Illyrians. These were the paleo-native peoples of the Haemus peninsula in antiquity.

From the danube river southwards, Hellenic culture prevailed. Thracians Hellenized willingly and voluntarily, and so did some Illyrians. Paeonians came into the Hellenic world as brother-peoples, a sister nation.

The Haemus peninsula became known as the Greek peninsula, for the dominance and resiliance of Hellenism, the host culture, prevailed there for centuries until the coming of the Romans. After the latin-Roman conquests of the Haemus and the subsequent political administrative Romanization of the area, the Paeonian line stayed loyal to the native host culture, that is to say, stayed Greek, in speech, in culture, and tradition.

The demise of latin-Roman Imperial influences in the east gives way to Greco-Roman ones. The Haemus [Greek] peninsula now hosts the empire of the Eastern Romans. Constantinopolis becomes the new Rome and Greek Orthodox Christendom becomes the religion of the Byzantine empire.

Lest we forget...FYRoM sits on Paeonian soil.

In order to preserve historical integrity, the coming of the Slavs to the Haemus [Greek] peninsula is recorded at 6th Century AD, after the Goths and after the Huns. FYRoM is not Macedonia and people-dynamics dictate that FYRoM is Slavic now, in speech and in genous, in culture and tradition, but lets not forget that FYRoM's Pre-Slavic population was Greco-Roman, with culture and loyalties to match.

Macedonia: FYRoM Aspirations Pitted Against Western Expectations

Evidently, FYRoM is more interested in changing the Western Worlds Cultural Historical Narrative rather than making alteration to it's Country-Name...an alteration that would see it fulfill it's aspirations.

The West fully expected FYRoM to integrate rapidly into the Western worlds most prestigious economic and security structures of the EU and NATO. Bringing FYRoM into the Euro-Atlantic security zone and paving the way for it's economic integration into the European Union were priorities designed to convert FYRoM into the shining example of ethnic-tolerance, the template from which could be emulated through-out the troubled western-balkans, but alas, it was not to be...FYRoM let everybody down. Evidently FYRoM had other priorities!

FYRoM's western backers, benefactors, sympathizers and supporters ploughed-in so many resources there, so much time effort and energy, spent to convert FYRoM, to make it the equivalent of 'Switzerland in the Balkans' that would have seen this newly established country emerge as a beacon of hope, a bastion of free-speech, where free-press, free-market economics, ethnic-tolerance and social-cohesion was bolstered by western-style democracy, the kind of democratic values and principles that were found commonly practiced in the Euro-Atlantic area, the economic and security area FYRoM made clear, it aspired to join.

FYRoM's aspirations did not meet Western expectations. The West expected more from FYRoM! From the Western point of view: FYRoM said all the right things in order to solicit sympathy and support, but did precious little to meet expectations.

Conclusion: FYRoM duped the West...that is why the West keeps FYRoM at arms length, at a distance, from the western-worlds most prestigious economic and security structures of the EU and NATO.

as for ;...the Greek' advise on course of course


It is argued that the European Union did not perform well in the former Yugoslavia. This paper addresses the issue whether the EU should have opted for a different course
[link to ideas.repec.org (secure)]

nick read translated greek of greek' greek? or something

Conclusion: Nick the Greek is 1 Angle

of a cyber-angel

FYRoM is more interested in rewriting the western worlds cultural historical narrative than it is in joing the EU and NATO.

De-recognition might be the only way to get the name dispute resolved. It was a mistake to recognise FYRoM as the "Republic of Macedonia", the reason(s) for doing so was based on poor Ill thought-out, substandard, flawed advice. On November 4, 2004, two days after the re-election of ex-President George W. Bush, his administration unilaterally recognized an ex-Yugoslav republic as the “Republic of Macedonia.” The fall-out from that ill though-out decision is still with us today, manifested in a name dispute that is still ongoing >2 decades. With or without good intentions, the advice panel issued George poor, ill thought-out advice, totally disregarding the international academic community, they prepared to defy classicist-historian scholars in order to press ahead with recognition, at the expense and exclusion of Greek concerns.

Greece, a staunch and loyal long-time member of the EU and Nato was trampled upon in order that US policy in the Balkans prevails. US recognition paved the way for others to follow suite, and from since 2004, FYRoM has raised untold monuments to ancient-Macedonians, built enormous structures in their name and use the Macedonian name in ways which detach it from it's Hellenic roots and ethnogenic origins.

FYRoM uses the Macedonian name for country-name...sovereign state-name, nationality, language and ethnicity. The Slavic-speaking peoples there now see themselves as Macedonians in the ethnic-racial sense and cultural-linguistic sense. I am Macedonian because I speak Macedonian and live in Macedonia, this is the mindset there, the mode of the peoples thinking. They see themselves as Macedonians, Greeks like Ethiopians, Greece as the enemy and Hellenism as a loaded word, beyond hate - the legacy of that poor, substandard, ill thought-out flawed advice!

I say: FYRoM abused the right of self-determination...played on Western sympathies to gain recognition. From since recognition, FYRoM has shown more interest in rewriting the Western worlds cultural historical narrative than interest in joining the EU and NATO.

Human rights and the rights of modern-peoples to self-determine as they wish, is no longer considered viable, or even appropriate, in the face of strong academic arguments favouring the rights of native autochthonous peoples. Macedonians are the Greeks that continue to practice their self-determination right in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors. Human rights exist for everyone...Slavic-speakers wanting to Identify with Macedonia and Macedonians infringes on the rights of the native Greek-speakers. The people of FYRoM declaring themselves 'Macedeonians' is problematic and confusing, Macedonian Identity already exists, it is native and Greek.

Macedonia(n): When this Name is used, it is used to refer to Centum Greek-speaking Hellenic peoples. FYRoM South-Slavs cannot use this name for country-name...sovereign state-name, nationality, language and ethnicity.

The ancient-kingdom of Macedon was home to Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples, a cultural historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. Macedonians speak Centum-Greek from since >3 Millenniums. What kind of Macedonians can the Slavic-speakers of FYRoM be, in contention to those historical facts, these academic reference-points. That Macedonians spoke Greek, wrote Greek, walked and talked Greek, entertained themselves Greek-style, at Greek theatre, from since the days of King Karanus, is proof beyond contention that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs cannot espouse the same Macedonian Identity the way it is represented in the Western worlds cultural historical narrative. The brutal truth is that they are not Macedonians, at least, not in the Greek sense of that word. So, to be clear: Macedonia(n)...When this term is used, it is used to describe Centum Greek-speakers from northern Greece - Not Satem Slavic-speakers from FYRoM.

By a quirkiness from the human rights charter, newly emerging countries have right to name themselves as they wish, the way they see fit, by a name of the peoples choosing, so FYRoM opted for the name 'Republic of Macedonia' exercizing it's self-determination right. The point here is this: FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic, in genous and in speech, and in all the ways that distinguish Slavs from non Slavs. Greece has historic rights to defend and a cultural inheritance to protect, so what to do ?

Clearly, awarding FYRoM recognition in November 2004 was a mistake...a big one, based on poor substandard, ill thought-out advice. Derecognition as a way forward may make FYRoM pause in order and take stock, to see where it's best interests and future lay.

What is even more clear is this: The West now curse the day they allowed FYRoM to dupe them. FYRoM is seen as having abused the UN charter of human rights by naming itself after a politically charged country-name...a name they knew full-well and in advance would clash and conflict with the neighbourhood, and with the Western worlds cultural historical heritage. That FYRoM has taken the Macedonian name 4 stages further, to the levels of Sovereign state-name, Nationality, Language and Ethnicity has further incensed the West making it crystal clear, that FYRoM was always more interested in changing the Western worlds cultural historical narrative than altering it's name slightly to enable the country to fulfill it's pre-stated and long time aspirations to join the EU and NATO

FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity left undistinguished impacts on the peoples perceiption of themselves. The youth there now identify more with ancient-Macedonians than with the current contemporary Slavic identity of their forebears. The leapfrog back to ancient identity is a direct consequence of recognition. FYRoM attained recognition in November 2004, when ex-President Bush acted on poorly-issued, ill thought-out, substandard, ill-judged advice...flawed on many academic deciplines, not least,(i) geography,(ii) ethnology,(iii) demography (iv) history...and more!

Had that advice been better researched before it was issued, GW Bush would never have recognized Paeonia as Macedonia or confused Satem-Slavic speakers with Centum-Greek ones. On the basis of that poorly-researched, poorly-issued advice, FYRoM attained recognition as 'Republic of Macedonia' which prompted others to follow Americas lead. That decision caused classicist historian scholars to challenge political expediances...it pitted the academic realm against the political one. Academia won. Macedonian Identity is Hellenic on the basis, all the Kings of Macedon spoke Centum-Greek and all of them subscribed to Hellenism...the culture and religious beliefs of the Greeks - common folk, the same. In few words: It was Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples that created the Macedonian name in the first place. Academia had to teach those historical-facts to politicians.

FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity cannot stay undistinguished. For the sake of clarity and precision, and for historical and social cohesion...FYRoM must differentiate itself from Macedonian-Identity associated with ancient-Greece. The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain. Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

FYRoM adopted the Macedonian name for country-name and felt empowered by recognition to take it 4 stages further, to the levels of sovereign state-name, nationality, language and ethnicity...this is unnacceptable! Names can be adopted but not identities, identity is inherited. FYRoM's national identity cannot be Macedonian on that basis. Macedonian Identity has been in use and passed-on, from one ethnic-Greek generation to the next one for millennia. FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity must distinguish itself from Centum-Greek speakers who trace theirs back, in backward compatible fashion to the campaigne their ancestors initiated to liberate Greek City states in Asia-Minor under Persion domination. If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs relate to this identity, they have option to re-Hellenize and Greeks have option to accept them.

Macedonians base their Identity on speaking Centum-Greek and subscribing to Hellenism. Macedonian-Identity is time-served Hellenic from since the times of thier first King...King Karanus 778-808 BC. Macedonian-Identity is strongly related to that campaign ancient-Macedonians initiated to free the Greek City-States in Asia-Minor that found themselves under Persian domination and control. Macedonians pride themselves on Alexander the Greats achievement. Macedonians rise to fame in the Greek world is based on that campaign. FYRoM South-Slavs have these historical-facts to contend with when explaining their so called Macedonian-Identity to the outside world.

So FYRoM vyes and competes with Greece over historical matters...not on any cultural historical or linguistic equilibrium but on the weakest most crudest of arguments - that they are Macedonians because they speak Macedonian and live in the Republic of Macedonia. Greeks have historic-rights to defend and rich cultural-inheritance to protect so Greeks insist that FYRoM disassociates and differentiates itself from the Macedonian-Identity which classicist-historian scholars associate with ancient-Greece.

FYRoM's so called Macedonian-Identity cannot remain undistinguished. Identity that is founded exclusively on the twin pillars of Country-Name and Language-Name rests on the weakest of foundations. An acquired adopted name coupled with a renamed satem-slavic language barely meet the first primordial steps required for transitional people-groups developing unique racial and ethnic Identity of their own. Macedonian because of country-name and Macedonian because of language-name does not form solid enough criteria for the development of national Identity, let alone support the scripting of national historical narrative that links this Identity back to the ancient-Macedonian one. FYRoM's so called Macedonian-Identity struggles to establish position because there is huge absence of linguistic, cultural and historical content...the void that it creates only Hellenic cultural historical material could fill.

FYRoM cannot sustain Macedonian-Identity based on the weakest of arguments, bolstered by hollow flimsy connections to country-name and language-name...Identity-facto rs acquired and not created are void of essence and substance. The Macedonian name was created by Centum-Greek speakers using Hellenic-language. Their name belongs in the Greek domain and their Identity belongs to Greek heritage. FYRoM has no choice now but to distinguish itself from Macedonians that have self-declared, self-Identified and self-determined Greek for >3 Millenniums.

Macedonia:FYRoM Owes The West Nothing TRUE or FALSE

FYRoM owes everything to the West. Without Western Recognition, FYRoM would not have emerged as a country in it's own right. The most precious thing FYRoM has is Western Recognition. The West invested a lot of time, effort and energy to integrate FYRoM into the Western worlds Euro-Atlantic economic and security umbrella. FYRoM let the side down. FYRoM let everybody down! The most precious thing FYRoM has, can be taken away just as easily as it was given...Recognition, as it turned out, was good only for FYRoM, bad for the West. Bad, in that FYRoM got what it wanted, the West got nothing.

The West asked for a compromise but none was forthcoming! The West shall ask for one more last time - The Onus is on FYRoM to compromise!

FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity cannot remain neutral...neither Slavic or Hellenic. Macedonian-Identity on FYRoM left undistinguished is where we are now, with FYRoM swinging between Slavic themes and Hellenic themes. Mixing and matching from both has resulted in developing botched, mismatched Identity. Contemporary Identity there is a blend of confusion, an imposition somewhere between ancient and medievil, with emphasis on the ancient. If FYRoM continues to develop it's national identity based on ancient-Greeks, then it should exercize the option to De-Slavicize Re-Hellenize.

If it is true, that the peoples of FYRoM are native autochthonous-peoples, peoples of the land, people that stayed put and never moved...if true, would make them Slavicized Byzantines, or Slavicized Romio. This is the best way to describe FYRoM's ancestors, Byzantines that stayed behind during the Slavic settlement period, in Slavic dominated areas. Slavicized Byzantines! Greek-speaking Romioi to be more precise. The line of dileanation marking out the latin-speaking Romanized areas from the Greek-speaking areas of the Haemus peninsula runs above the FYRoM boundary with Serbia. FYRoM remained a Greek-speaking area of Byzantium until the coming of the Slavs.

Evidently, the peoples of FYRoM Identify more with Macedonia and Macedonians than Slavs from the Steppe. They have option to Re-Hellenize on that basis, and Greeks have option to accept them. Anyway, how Slavic can E1b1b, J2, Slavic-speaking Haemus-Natives be, when compared to the R1a variety from Russia or Poland. Genes we know, tell only half the story...the half that is more native than Slavic should at least be given the opportunity to Re-Hellenize, if they wish to exercize that option. Being Slavic and Macedonian must be distinguishable from being Hellenic and Macedonian. The former should accept the latters right to historical-rights, cultural-inheritance and legacy endowment, if FYRoM chooses that option. With FYRoM De-Slavicized Re-Hellenized, the path towards developing collective-memories and Hellenic conciousness, will enable like-minded peoples there to connect themselves to the ancient-Greek world. The option is there to be exercized!

What is clear is this: Macedonian-Identity on FYRoM, cannot be left undistinguished.

Self-adscription constitutes the criteria from which the invoking of rights derived from such ownership, might be considered on first-hand, first-instance, face-value level to be quasi-legitimate, pending dispute or contention. If I self-ascribe Macedonian, then that is what I am, and owning that Identity shall entitle me to receive recognition and obtain full inheritance rights, cultural historical and otherwise.

The fact that an individual or group of individuals can self-describe in the character of some ancient archaic bygone peoples, is reason enough on first-hand face-value basis, to consider them descendants. If I walk like a Macedonian and talk like a Macedonian, then that is what I am...I claim on quasi-legitimate basis, continuity on combination of any one, or all of these ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic factors.

When Greeks self-ascribe, self-describe, self-determine and self-Identify Macedonian...they do it from autochthonous perspective. The United Nations recognizes the rights of indigenous populations. Native peoples have individual and collective right to maintain identity characteristics of their ancestors.

When FYRoM South-Slavs self-ascribe, self-describe, self-determine and self-Identity 'Macedonian'...they do it from Faux perspective - not the real thing! I am Macedonian because I speak Macedonian and live in Macedonia, coming from a FYRoM ex-Yugoslav this is just ambitious wishful thinking, just titular self-adscriptions without substance. The language is Satem-Slavic and the land was Paeonia in antiquity, Dardanian north from Skopje. Macedonian-Identity on FYRoM is uninherited, the peoples there did not inherit Macedonian-Identity from their Slavic ancestors, it was imposed on them by Communists.

Because FYRoM gained American recognition in November 2004, on the issuance of poor substandard, ill thought-out advice, there is nothing to stop FYRoM claiming Macedonian-Identity on ethnic-racial level or cultural-linguistic level...they do it anyway, unashamedly. They also claim cultural-inheritance, unashamedly. The legacy of that ill-judged decision to recognize FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia upset the International Academic Community...they came out in large numbers to defend the Western worlds cultural-historical narrative in order to preserve historical-cohesion. Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians remain Centum-Greek speaking Hellenic-peoples in that narrative but what will happen in the future - will the history books post-FYRoM independence support 2 Macedonian histories, with both Centum-Greek and Satem-Slavic speakers staking claim to one and same ancestors.

Those overpaid substandard advisors to ex-President Bush left us an uncosted political-legacy that cannot be resolved conventionally, through diplomacy. Experiance teaches us, that well managed disputes with entrenched positions cannot come to any fruitful conclusion. Recognition is the root cause of FYRoM's unwillingness to compromise, and the Hellenic Republics resolve to keep the Macedonian name in the Greek domain and Macedonian-Identity achored to Greek heritage. Greece has the moral and academic high ground - FYRoM has recognition...work that one out!

It is the victor that always writes the event-history. This saying is always cited by pseudo-historical propagandists as a form of justification to rationalize their scripting of alternate history. FYRoM history is a case in point. Pseudo-historians there scripted this newly established slavic statelet a national-history that rests on the twin-pillars of revisionism and pseudo-history. Slavist-Makedonists there use the argument above, to justify the scripting of their own versions of it.

FYRoM Makedonists scripted the country a national historical narrative so crude and so crass, it defies belief. The substance of it, and the content of it do not stand-up to scholarly or academic scrutiny. When the FYRoM version of history is scrutinized, it is found wanting. In the crudest of arguments, they reason, Greek-historians scripted themselves the history of Macedonia because the ancient-Greeks were always the victors, so they got to write the history first. We do know, that it is the victor that always writes the event-history. FYRoM argues that Macedonians were not Greek, so the Macedonian version of history was never scripted...only Greek versions of it exist.

Macedonians conquered Greece according to FYRoM, and they are Macedonian...so the 'Republic of Macedonia' has right to script the Macedonian version of history. Very simple, very basic, very crude and very crass, right! If the ancient-Macedonians were not Greek and they conquered Greece...that makes them the Victors. Victors always write the event-history, in this case it was Macedonian scholars and academics that wrote the event-history of Hellenic expansion eastwards to Asia and beyond. If Macedonians were not Greek - why did they write a Victors Version of it, a version that went down in history to become the mainstream version, the Western worlds cultural historical narrative to which everything in other peoples histories is referenced.

The Western worlds cultural-historical narrative is based on Macedonians being Centum Greek-speakers with affiliations towards Hellenism and fraternal kinship ties to other Greeks. FYRoM disputes the Western worlds cultural-historical narrative and contends the Macedonians were never Greek. According to FYRoM Slavists, Macedonians in antiquity were Proto-Slavs. This is the price the West is paying for awarding FYRoM recognition as 'Republic of Macedonia'...recognition that was American led and based on the issuance of poor, substandard, ill thought-out flawed advice, flawed at many many academic disciplines.

With recognition came rights...sovereign-rights. FYRoM learned to harness the potential of those rights, and uses them to full effect. FYRoM uses it's newly found status as an independent nation state to write it's own national history. FYRoM's national historical narrative humilates Greeks, belittles Hellenic contributions to world history and rubishes Greece, the Hellenic Republic. FYRoM's national history also humiliates the Western worlds cultural historical narrative..it doesn't recognize it in the first place.

The West awarded FYRoM recognition, and in response, FYRoM does not recognize the Western worlds cultural historical narrative...the mainstream version of history that bases it's civilization and cultural historical narrative on Macedonians being Centum Greek-speakers, with affiliations towards Hellenism and fraternal kinship ties to other Greeks.

The Wests relationship towards FYRoM is one sided - FYRoM got Recognition the West got Nothing, sept a long running name dispute, now in the early years of it's third decade.

Macedonia: Void of Hellenism

If for nothing else, then for cultural-historical cohesion - The Western worlds cultural historical narrative depends on FYRoM being Slavic and Macedonia being Hellenic. This is where the name-dispute between FYRoM and Greece has brought us...to the brink of rewriting the ancient history of Europe. History cannot support 2 versions of the Macedonia story, one Slavic and the other one Hellenic! In Europe we must all be on the same page, reading from one common historical narrative. European history books cannot cover uncoventional national-histories that clash and conflict with the academically accepted mainstream.

The Western worlds cultural-historical narrative depends on Macedonians being Centum Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples. Any shift or alteration from this academically accepted reference point would require consensus from International Academic Community. World-Academia is a scholarly-body of knowledge to be respected. According to their disseminations, Macedonians were intrinsic and integral to the ancient-Greek world, Hellenes in genous and in speech, and in all the other ways that determine Greeks from NoN-Greeks.

FYRoM scripted itself a National-Historical narrative that was so crude and so crass, it made Macedonians Proto-Slavs and Alexander the Great Aleksandar Veliki, the first Czar of the Slavs. FYRoM's national historical narrative went viral...more than 1001 revisionist Theories Ideas and Conjectures littered the internet explaining how ancient-Macedonians were not Greek but rather Proto-Slavs instead - This is what Western recognition encouraged FYRoM to do, rewrite Europes ancient history.

Until it dawned on Western political mind-architects...bad-mouthing Greeks, belittling Hellenism, down-playing Hellenic contributions to world history, all these things actually erode the Western worlds cultural historical narrative giving other narratives free-license to fill the void, to encroach in that vacuum. Afrocentric, Turanid and FYRoM-Slavist narratives went frenzy on Greeks whilst Greeces western-partners and european-cousins stood idley by, engaging in implicit manoeuvres to elevate the importance of Celto-Germanic contributions to Europen history, shifting the age of enlightenment to Charlamagne. European history did not start from Africans, Turks or Slavs...and the Celtic Germanic contributions came after the Greek and Roman ones. The Western worlds cultural historical narrative cannot be held hostage to anti-Hellenic mind-architects. Hellenic culture is culture of choice for the West...It is worth keeping, worth protecting and worth defending - Without it, what else is there to replace it ?

FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic! South-Slavs there live a pretentious life...on the will of those who govern them. To think of South-Slavs as Macedonians when they are actually Slavic is being pretentious in the extreme.To think of FYRoM as Macedonia and ex-Yugoslavs as Macedonians is being disgracefully ignorant of the Western worlds cultural historical narrative. Those who do it intentionally erode something from that long-established narrative...intentionally! Those who do it to downplay, belittle Hellenisms contributions to world history humiliate Greeks. Those who do it from ignorant perspective, damage [[ credibility ][ integrity ]] themselves in the face of the learned and the enlightened. Those who do these things with purpose and intention erode something from the Western worlds cultural historical heritage, leaving it open for Afrocentrists, Turanids and FYRoM Slavists to ridicule the Western worlds culture of choice. Observers witnessed how these erosive cultural threats were pushed to challenge Hellenisms position in the development of Western thought sapience and wisdom.

Western Civilization is based on Alexander the Great being the Greek King of Macedon and Macedonians being Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples. The Hellenisitic period of history is named thus in acknowledgement to Greeks spreading Hellenism, the Centum-Greek language, Greek-Knowledge and Wisdom to the far reaches of the eastern-world. Those who downplay, belittle these things with purpose are anti-Hellenic by default, anti-Western by design and intention.

To rid the West from it's culture of choice, what will replace it! Globalism maybe...but that is not culture, it is a way for Globalists to erode culture, erode individualism and erode freedom of thought, things on which Hellenism and early Greeks thrived. The Western world is not perfect and neither is is the culture on which it is founded, even after many Celto-Germanic refinements, but what is there to replace it - Really!

FYRoM Makedonism should be viewed as Cultural-Threat and in the same light as Afrocentric and Turanid Threats to Western Civilization. Spreading Turko African Slavist Culture only goes towards eroding the Western worlds cultural historical heriatge further, to the point where there is disconnect...and when that happens, something will have to come in to replace it, to fill the void.

Things never to mess with: People-Names, Place-Names, Peoples Intellectual Property, Cultural-Inheritance, Peoples Legacy Endowments. FYRoM messed with all of those things, primordial things which have been the root causes of arguments bickering and wars from since the earliest recollections of our common collective human memory. Human primordial logic dictates...Things which belong to me, you cannot touch, because they do not belong to you. That logic is still with us today!

In order to establish itself as a free and independent nation-state in it's own right, FYRoM messed with ancient-Greek people-names, messed with ancient-Greek place-names, messed with the intellectual-property of it's neighbours, messed with the cultural-inheritance of it's neighbours, messed with the legacy endowments of it's neighbours.
How can FYRoM not be in trouble doing those things when we know from history, from since our earliest human collective memory, that taking things which do not belong to you causes arguments bickering and war.

The disintigration of Yugoslavia spawned six new republics. FYRoM gained independence in September 1991. Between the governing Serbs and the ruling elite from Socialist Republic of Makedonija, it was decided to seperate. The condition and circumstance of those discussions are still clouded in mystery. Not one shot was fired, and there was no loss of life. The Socialist prefix was dropped and FYRoM stepped onto the world stage as Republic of Macedonia. Question: Was the Macedonian name discussed between them ? Serbs and Bulgarians know, the Macedonian name is ancient archaic Hellenic name. Did those discussions cover the implications for minor Slavic country using Greek name to ascribe with. Yugoslavs knew full-well and in advance, Greek reaction to Slavic country declaring independence self-ascribing Republic of Macedonia.

European people-names and place-names are important to the people-groups that created and originated those names in the first place.. The Macedonian name was created by Centum-Greek speakers. FYRoM took something which belongs to Greeks and presented it, as if it belongs to South-Slavs - a provocation, a cause for argument. We know that names can be adopted, recognition of origin though, and acknowledgement of creator would go a long way to dampen down the potency of any bickering over intellectual property ownership. FYRoM refuses to recognize Macedonian name as Greek name, or acknowledge Macedonia as ever belonging to the Greek world.

FYRoM covets Macedonian name for country-name...sovereign state-name, nationality, language and ethnicity. Identity factors which if legitimized, would make Slavs there Macedonians in ethnic-racial sense and cultural-linguistic sense. Country-name generates nationality. Language-name generates ethnicity. American-led recognition of FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia back in November 2004, was the worst ever presidential advice ever issued to any president of the USA in living memory. That poor substandard, academically flawed advice awarded FYRoM sovereign-rights. Now FYRoM utilizes those rights to their fullest potential claiming all things Macedonian, things which do not belong to South-Slavs - Macedonian Name, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy.

FYRoM messes with People-Names, Place-Names, Peoples Intellectual-Property, Cultural-Inheritance, Peoples Legacy-Endowments...all because it can, on technical level. On the issuance of that ill-judged, ill thought-out advice issued to GW Bush, American-led recognition of FYRoM entitled the Slavs there to mess with Greeks and mess with the Western worlds cultural historical narrative...in that long established academically accredited narrative, Macedonians are Hellenic not Slavic.

Hellenes exist in the same places, in the Haemus [ Greek ] peninsula, outlasting Thracians and outliving Illyrians respectively. Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples have endured there for millenniums. Culture and heritage of indigenous populations should be protected. The UN recognizes the rights of autochthonous peoples to keep as close as possible the identity-characteristics of their ancestors. In the modern-age though, Greeks struggle to retain key important elements of their cultural-inheritance from prying forces that contest them.

FYRoM is a case in point where minor Slavic country recently established, vies to ascribe itself ancient-Greek name for country-name. FYRoM covets Macedonian name for sovereign state-name, nationality, language and ethnicity, kick-starting off a dispute with Greece that is now almost a generation old. The issue for Greeks is this: Macedon was Dorian-Greek Kingdom. Macedonians are recorded in classicist-history like protectors, defending northernmost extremities of ancient-Hellas against barbarian invasions incursions and attacks. Their name belongs in Greek domain and Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage. Greeks have right to keep as close as possible, the identity-characteristics of their ancestors.

Culture is the basis from which social-cohesion and civic-identity develops. Heritage is endowment received, passing onward to next generation. Greek cultural achievement is celebrated in the West. Protecting culture of choice against erosion is natural reaction to FYRoM cultural-threat. FYRoM along with Turkic and Albanian revisionists, attempt to rewrite the Western worlds cultural historical narrative. Macedonians become Proto-Slavs, Alexander the Great becomes Aleksandar Veliki first Czar of the Slavs. Turkics become ancient-Trojans, and Albanians become Illyrians. Between them, Slavist, Turanid and Albanian pseudo-historical revisionists rewrite the concise history of Europe completely erasing the Greeks from it. Greeks struggle to keep Hellenic culture alive in the peninsula of it's birth.

Greeks struggle to keep their history and heritage from being rubbished, bismerched. But Greeks should not have to shoulder that burden alone. Hellenic culture is the foundation on which Western culture is based. Until the Haemus peninsula learns to respect the indigenous native host culture. Greeks shall continue to struggle against hostile ones that try to erase it!

History wont be kind to FYRoM. Historians shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspective. History shall record FYRoM as that minor Slavic country that when acquired independence, briefly posed a cultural threat to the Western worlds cultural historical narrative. The concise history of FYRoM will plot it's beginnings from Paeonia to Vardaska, to latest current name, Republic of Macedonia.

Demography wont be kind to FYRoM. Demographers shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspective. Demography shall record that minor Slavic country FYRoM was once autochthnous Haemus Kingdom of Paeonia. Paonians Hellenized on interation with Macedonians, forever looked upon as brother people to Greeks going forward, until the Slavs settled there 6th Century AD.

Philology wont be kind to FYRoM. Philologists shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspective. Philology shall record FYRoM as that minor Slavic country that when established independence, scripted itself a national historical narrative that was so anti-mainstream, it posed a cultural threat to the long-established cultural historical narrative of the West.

The FYRoM story is double-edged in that it exposed 2 root sources from whence anti-Hellenic, anti-Western propaganda emanated...one internal and western, the other one external, non-western. No more shall be said here because both sources have been compromised. Nobody of worth, from politics or the media talks about Greeks Greece or Hellenism the way they used to, like the frenzy days of heightened anti-Hellenic activity. Both sources have been squelched. One has disbanded, and the other one gone underground. The point to make is this: FYRoM was used by both to discredit Greeks to undermine Hellenism to elevate Germano-Celtic story from 8th Century AD. The age of enlightenment was to begin from common European ancestor Karalos Magnos, not from the ancient Greeks or Romans.

The most noteworthy observations to take from all of this is this: FYRoM's most potent propaganda against Greeks Greece and Hellenism, here I mean the academic supplementary materials were not written by homegrown FYRoM South-Slavs themselves, nor their diasporas...Black Athena is prime example, Paleolithic Continuity Theory is another example, Veneti Builders of Europe is another. Remember this, Afrocentric Theories, Turanid Theories, Slavist Theories, timely published to undermine and belittling Hellenic cultural contributions to world history were not written by Africans, Turkics or Slavics - The authors belong to those 2 root sources listed [4th paragraph] above.

Those who aided minor Slavic country FYRoM spread propaganda against Greece did it for higher ulterior motive. So the FYRoM story is sad story, one of being used and abused. The saddest thing though, there is no more use for FYRoM anymore. Greeks successfully thwarted each and every attempt to bismerch Greek history. Friends of Greeks, PhilHellenes and Grecophones successfully defend Hellenism, Hellenic cultural contributions to development of Western society. Every anti-Hellenic action invokes reaction, until the next one.

Ultimately, what does FYRoM aim to achieve by stubbornly refusing to recognize Macedon as ancient-Greek Kingdom and Macedonians as native-Haemus autochthonous population. Kingdom of Macedon inhabitants were North-Dorians, a sub-group of greater Hellenic people-group which counted more than 230 known ancient-Greek groups tribes and Kingdoms into it's collective. South-Dorians were the Spartans - Macedonians and Spartans derive from Dorian-Greeks, sub-group of Hellenes, native and autochthonous to the Haemus peninsula. Greeks have right to keep as close as possible the Identity-characteristics of their ancestors...protected in law under UN charter rules governing rights of autochthonous populations. FYRoM South-Slavs have to contend with this, when explaining their so called Macedonian-Identity to the outside world.

How can Greeks keep as close as possible, the Identity-characteristics of their ancestors when FYRoM vies against Greece contesting Macedonian-Identity on levels that defy academically accepted reference-points governing demography, archaelogy, philology, history and ethnology! FYRoM is Slavic, Macedonia is Hellenic...how can FYRoM contend with Greece the Identity of Macedonia and Macedonians on serious level when all Identity-factors reveal Macedonians to be native-Haemus, autochthonous and Greek.

FYRoM ofcourse, does not contend with Greece on serious level. Everything that is done there is done for show, pretentious bordering theatrical, designed to veneer Hellenic images there for presentational purposes...to show minor Slavic country having ancient archaic Identity that is native to the Haemus. Greeks would not have reacted so harshly to FYRoM recognizing Macedonian name as Greek name, or acknowledging ancient-Macedon as Greek Kingdom, or conceding that Alexander the Great was Greek King of Macedon - FYRoM ofcourse does non of these things but does the opposite instead! So here, it poses question Why ? Why does FYRoM not recognize Macedon as Greek Kingdom or Macedonians as Greeks belonging to Hellenic collective of peoples, same as the Spartans.

The answer ofcourse, is very simple...very crude but very simple - FYRoM doesn't have to! FYRoM does not have to do any of those things because it has already achieved what it set out to achieve from the very beginning. Recognition was the primary aim, to get recognized as Republic of Macedonia. FYRoM said all the right things and did all the right things, at a time when the Balkans were state of flux and very unstable. Greece was playing Maverick, in NATO but not fully in, in the West but not fully in, so FYRoM became focal point for anti-Hellenic western mind-architects to sketch Greece out of strategic planning and sketch FYRoM in, instead. FYRoM was recognized as Republic of Macedonia to spite Greece.

Ultimately, the FYRoM issue saw Greece drop it's Maverick stance to become fully integrated into West and Team NATO. Greece is good team player now, valued member, strategically sketched into future planning. FYRoM is no longer required, it's importance to the West has plummeted, depreciated significantly to lowest ever level. The name dispute still lingers though, but at least it is seen for what it is, doing more harm to FYRoM the longer it remains unresolved.

In accordance with its political needs of the time, after the Republic of Macedonia declared its independence from Yugoslavia, the Greek government decided to muddy the issue by calling the indigenous Macedonian people in the Republic of Macedonia by a variety of names including Slavs, Slav-Macedonians, Fyromians, Skopjans, Vardarians, Bulgarians, South-Serbs, etc! Many Greek people around the world, like lost sheep, also follow suit!
Across the border inside "Greek occupied Macedonia" indigenous Macedonians who are true to themselves and who don’t buy into the Greek propaganda, have always referred to themselves simply as "Macedonians". The Greek government unfortunately has labeled them traitors and to justify their existence calls them "Slavophone-Greeks", "Slav speakers with a Greek consciousness", "Agents of Skopje",“Fyromian spies”, etc.
Ironically the "imposters", Turkish Christian Refugees and others dumped in Greek occupied Macedonia who falsely claim to be "Macedonians" or "Greek-Macedonians" today call the real Macedonians “Slavs”. In another ironic twist these imposters also call the real Macedonians "Endopyi" which means “indigenous” in Greek!
Recent independent DNA and Genetic experiments show Modern Greeks have a relationship with the Sub-Saharan ethnic groups now residing in Ethiopia, Sudan and West Africa (Burkina-Fasso)!(mind you, there's nothing wrong with that) Macedonians are not related with the geographically close Greeks! But behind the Greek veil is there indeed no "Slav" ingredient/s in the DNA and genetic makeup of the people of the Ancient City-States and the Modern Greek? Not to mention "Slavic" cultural influence as well? After all, Macedonian genes appear to be closer to Cretan (Crete) genes!
According to recently deciphered ancient inscriptions and archeological finds; the Anatolian Plateau, the Aegean Islands, the entire Southern Balkans (where the Republic of Macedonia and Greece are today), Central and South-Eastern Europe was for well over 5,000 years proto-Slavic (tribes of people who spoke the same "word" or "slov", which later evolved to "Slav") before there were the Ancient City- States or any Greece!!!(no wonder Greece refuses to allow foreign archeologists to dig in its soil!)
The Ancient Sub-Saharan Mycenaean invaders were the "first Greeks" from across the Mediterranean to colonize the Peloponnesus and the Aegean Islands (Crete, Thera, etc) around 1600 BC! They assimilated the original indigenous inhabitants, the "proto-Slav" "Southern" Aegean Pelasgians who lived on these territories, adopting aspects of their language and culture in the process (and falsifying it as Greek today!) The Sub-Saharan Mycenaeans took the alphabet of the indigenous proto-Slav inhabitants of Crete (Linear A) after conquering them around 1450 BC to write an early form of Greek (Linear B)! The Sub-Saharan Mycenaeans are also the famous conquerors of Proto-Slavic Troy which occurred around 1193 BC – 1183 BC according to Homer!

After the Mycenaean civilization collapsed around 1100 BC (this is open to debate about how and why it happened! You can draw your own conclusions) the Peloponnesus transformed further both culturally and linguistically due to the arrival of the more civilized Egyptians, who overwhelmed the existing population only to eventually become assimilated themselves in the new cultural melting pot! Phoenician colonists arrived around this time as well (a proto-Slavic people according to German Toponimist Max Fasmer). This transformation (the melting pot) resulted in the formation of the so-called Ancient Greeks. The Peloponnesians or so-called Ancient Greeks received their alphabet from the Phoenicians (although the pre-Hellenic proto-Slav Pelasgian alphabet pre-dated this!).
In the making of the International Mediterranean Koine or Common Language (which has been hijacked by the Modern State of Greece and called "Greek" today) the Ancient Peloponnesians or the people of the Ancient City-States started to add phonemes and symbols onto foreign/indigenous words in the creation of their own language! In this language (Koine) the overwhelming selection of words were of indigenous proto-Slavic origin (ie Pelasgian and/or Phoenician) and a lesser amount were Arab words.(ie Sub-Saharan Mycenaean invaders and/or Egyptian words) However, some words were not translated and left as original! These words are similar to today’s Macedonian words! On the other hand US Scientists today are not counting on Modern Greeks as even belonging to the Indo-European peoples because the Modern Greek language has so many Arabisms!
This predominantly Sub-Saharan Mycenaean and/or Afro-Asiatic yoke and menace (the Ancient City-States, so called Ancient Greece today) did not penetrate north into Macedonia beyond the coastal cities at Chalcidice. Macedonia or Make-don-ija being the "Mothers-Domain" of a select group of ancient "northern" united proto-Slav tribes, as mentioned earlier, according to recent Archeological evidence have been there for well over 5,000 years, long before any of the others arrived. The Mycenaean Greeks arrived and settled on European soil at the Peloponnesus around 1600 BC!
The Romans were next to add their genes to the people of the Ancient City-States during the centuries of occupation. There is also evidence that after repeated wars and conflicts around this time, the offspring of the population of the Ancient City-States was reduced to hybrids and/or "mere Mongrels"! Also around this time there is evidence that the population of the Ancient City States consisted of free citizens with the other half being Slaves which included blacks from Africa! There were no Slaves in Macedonia!
Centuries later Goths, Huns and "other" barbarian invaders added their genes to the so-called Greeks.

Evidence of further and/or "Other" Slav yoke (that is Slav speakers from north of the Danube River) which constitutes part of the modern Greek genetic makeup today comes from one of their own! The Greek historian Paparigopoulos admits that in the 6th and 8th centuries AD Slavs from over the Carpathian Mountains immigrated as far south as the Peloponnesian peninsula and even some Aegean islands and settled there. He says that Slavs settled in Epirus, Thessally, Roumeli and the Peloponnesian peninsula. What happened to them?
The Turks were the next invaders to occupy Greece for 400 years and added their genes to the Greek gene pool. Throw in Roma, Vlachs, Albanians, Armenians, Egyptians, etc, etc, and over the span of two thousand years you come up with “pure Greeks”. A mongrel race like no other. And there you have it! The Modern Greeks are the direct descendants of the glorious Ancient Hellenes!(the people of the non-existent so called Ancient Greece) Super-gifted (god-like) people who civilized the world! What absolute RUBBISH!
Modern Greeks use the word "Slav" as a derogatory term to lash out at the Macedonians. It has become synonymous with Greek hatred. Hypocritical really, considering that the modern Greek genetic makeup consists of the very same people (and others of course) they so loath and despise!

The name dispute between FYRoM and Greece is still on-going...now in the early years of it's third decade. The name dispute still lingers because of FYRoM. There is no incentive for FYRoM to compromise. The West awarded this minor Slavic country recognition on the proviso it followed through on stated intentions to integrate into Western economic and security structures. Western [ anti-Hellenic ] mind-architects sketched FYRoM into geo-strategic planning at the expense and exclusion of Greek concerns.

FYRoM is minor Slavic country recently established...gained independence 1991 in unusual way. Western mind-architects campaigned to remap the Balkans. Greek objections were overruled. Strategic planners saw advantage in having FYRoM Albania Kosovo Bosnia follow Turkish example in their relation to West. Greece was not in this picture. In fact, Greece was shat upon from great height, had it's image tarnished, it's national-character assassinated, it's history rubbished and it's heritage completely bismerched. Western [ anti-Hellenic ] mind-architects working against Greece to see poorly designed geo-strategic blue-print elevating Turkey to Neo-Ottoman Controller of Balkan aspirant countries, to see them integrate into Western economic and security structures ala Turkish style!

Nobody sat down to discuss cultural impact on Western society, absorbing poor [ ant-West ] Islamic orientated Balkan countries. Nobody sat down to discuss integration methodology. Nobody sat down to discuss the impact it would have on Western worlds cultural-historical heritage when the national-histories of these countries start to clash and conflict with the western worlds long-established cultural-historical narrative. We have seen the erosive effect FYRoM national-history has, when Slavs there stake claim to ancient-Macedonian legacy...should we prepare to have it eroded further. Greece gave the West cultural foundation, that foundation is being destabilized.

Introducing cultural shock-waves who's epicenters do not emanate from ancient-Athens or Rome can only shake the foundation on which Western Civilization is based. The Western worlds cultural historical narrative cannot absorb the inclusion of revisionism, where Slavic Macedonians, Turkic Trojans, Kosovo Illyrians, Albanian Thraco-Illyrians, Bosnian Illyrians or Slovenian Veneti get to script their national pseudo-historical revisionism unchallenged. The Western worlds cultural-heritage is legacy-endowment received, first from ancient-Athens and then Rome...those cultural contributions are to be celebrated not eroded or bismerched!

The Western worlds cultural foundation is based on early Greek culture. Hellenism proved to be strong dominant culture. Those in closest proximity to Greeks Hellenized willingly and voluntarily, subscribing to Hellenic Ideals and core values as they developed. Ancient-Greeks are accredited for laying down the foundational ground-work on which Western civilization is based. Hellenism's Ideals and core values have been adopted by the West, but what are they, what are these Hellenic Ideals and core values learned-peoples in western society hold so dear. Humanism, Idealism, Rationalism are prime examples, but there are more: Freedom, Democracy, Indivisualism, Self-Reliance, Seeking being guided by Truth, Seeking Ideal perfect beauty, Ethics and Standards, Education and the pursuit of universal knowledge...all of these factors could be viewed as reference-points on which early Greeks guided their thoughts and actions. So it's really not that surprising, Western Europeans seeing something of themselves in ancient-Greeks - that is why the concept of being descended from them is such a powerful one.

Greek culture has endured there in the Haemus-peninsula for millennia...a cultural linguistic space northern-Greeks proudly protected from barbarian invasion incursions and attacks. Macedonians are accredited for defending Hellenism. The Western worlds cultural-historical narrative rests on King Philip of Macedon protecting the northermost extremities of Hellenic world. His son Alexander the Great is accredited for spreading Hellenism, Greek culture, Greek-language, knowledge sapience and wisdom to the
orient and the farthest reaches of the eastern world. Greek cultural linguistic space expanded, Hellenism became universal culture - the rest is history.

The Western worlds long-established cultural-historical narrative rests on Macedonians being Centum-Greek speakers, Hellenic-peoples spreading Hellenism. Latin-speaking Romans saw them that way, they also saw something of themselves in ancient-Greeks...Roman-culture is Greek-culture refined - Roman jurisdiction, Greek wisdom form the basis on which Western society developed. Preserving historical-cohesion is necessary for protection of Western societies social-cohesion. Having come this far on Greco-Roman civilizational principles, Western society is now facing civilizational choice (i) to develop on same, or (ii) to develop on different cultural principles, Ideals and core values. For the latter to succeed necessitates the destruction of the former. The incremental erosion of Western worlds cultural historical narrative and heritage based on Greco-Roman civilizational principles began when FYRoM was awarded recognition as Republic of Macedonia.

November 2004, on the back of anti-Hellenic, anti-Western advice...poor, substandard, academically-flawed advice. GW Bush was advised to recognize minor Slavic country FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia. Nobody of worth, Political Diplomatic or Academic confuses Paeonia for Macedonia or ex-Yugoslavs for Macedonians, yet this ill-judged, ill thought-out advice was issued, paving the way for FYRoM to utilize sovereign rights to fullest possible potential. FYRoM now stakes claim to all things Macedonian - Name, Identity, History, Heritage, Legacy. Anti-Hellenic, anti-Western mind-architects started a campaign to erode the Western worlds cultural historical narrative in order to establish minor Slavic country as Republic of Macedonia. In their eyes, history is insignificant means nothing, like something to ridicule. In their eyes, important things are Money, Commerce and Trade cacooned protected in security umbrella. In their eyes, erasing Hellenic-Identity of Macedonia and Macedonians is first step to eroding Western worlds cultural foundation paving the way for new replacement culture. In their eyes, Global Monolithic Culture is promoted above and beyond time served culture of choice.

1. Historically, Macedonians were not Greek and Greeks did not see them as Greek.

2. Linguistically, Greek language is based on a protoslavonic substratum

3. Genetically, Macedonians are related to ancient Macedonians and ice age Balkan inhabitants, while Greeks are related to the Phoenicians and Africans

4. Politically, Greeks have made many efforts to wipe out the Macedonian minority in Greece

5. even Plato recognized that Greek language is much younger than let's say Phrygian and other "barbaric" - protoslavonic languages.
6. Slavonic people are indigenous in the Balkans, while Greeks came much later, only after the ice age

7. The Slavonic history has been deformed through centuries because the roman - germanic pact needed arguments, why they were most suitable for being in charge of Europe, so they simply invented them


greek gene = african gene E
Haplogroup E3b (E1b1b) represents the last major migration out of North Africa into Europe. There are 3 main subgroups (subclades); V13, V22, and V12. E-V13 is the most common subgroup and is associated with ancient Greek expansion and colonisation.


indigenous balkan gene = slavonic gene I2a
Haplogroup I2 may have originated in south-eastern Europe some 17,000 years ago

[link to rochelineages.wordpress.com]

"Indo-Germanists" have conceded that the 'Kentum-Satem' division of I-E languages is artificial and obsolete since it (the Latin and Avestian word for 100) is but one of many isogloses.

A new division of Indo-European languages as “Core” and “Peripheral” is proposed.

INTRODUCTION

In 1786, Sir William Jones expressed his view that “Sanskrit is of more perfect structure than the Greek, more copious than the Latin, yet bearing to both of them a strong affinity as if sprung from some common source.
The same origin have also the Gothick and the Celtick, though blended with a very different idiom, and also Old Persian might be added to the same family.”

This was one of the cornerstones of modern linguistics.

Due to exclusive use of Sanskrit, Persian, Greek, Latin, and Germanic, the name "Indo-Germanic" was coined.
Observe that Slavic was not included.

The "Kentum-Satem" division of Indo-European languages was finalized by contributions of several authors in 1890.

While the 'Satem' languages display integrity and a core of similarities, those languages that used
to be called 'Kentum' lack cohesiveness.

The insecurity of the doctrine of Kentum affirmation is evident in the vacant space depicted by the “gray area” stretching between Eastern Baltic and Northern Adriatic (Diachronic map and the Gray Hole [6] along the Amber Road, Figure 2).
This is exactly the area occupied by the ancient Veneti - Venedi (and Wends).

The geographic location of the “gray area” also corresponds to the Corded Ware region of the Lusatian culture.
However, in 1965, G. R. Solta has shown that the 'Kentum-Satem' isogloss was overrated as a diagnostic feature and a tool of true componential analysis.
It ought not be revered as a defining wedge, which segregates Indo-European languages into two well-defined entities. It is only a single isogloss among many.

The new view resulted in a different division of Indo-European languages, namely into the core languages and peripheral languages.

At the same time, a working hypothesis about the origin of Europeans was presented.

CORDED WARE HORIZON AND THE HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION AROUND 2000 BC INDICATE A DRASTIC DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE REAL SITUATION AND THE LEARNED CONSTRUCT.
Consequently, the following points are presented:

#1. German attempt in the 19th Century to marginalize the Slavic role in the “Indo-Germanic” Languages was largely successful. This misinformation must be rectified, and the Slavic languages must be recognized as being key to the Indo-European phenomenon.
The Slavic languages are not to be viewed as a peripheral branch of the Indo-European Languages, but should be recognized as the trunk of the Language Tree from which the other branches received their substance and sustenance, Figure 3.

#2.“Indo-Germanic” is a neologism which SHOULD BE ABANDONED. Since Indo-Aryans branched off from the “Slavic Mother Tongue”(and “Slavic Mitochondrial and Y-chromosome genes”) some 9,000 years ago [7], and since Germanic Languages branched off from the “Balto-Slavic” source only perhaps 4,000 years ago and subsequently incorporated Celto- Italic elements:“It appears to point to a situation in which Germanic began to develop within the Satem Core (as evidenced by its morphology) but moved away before the final satem innovations.
It then moved into close contact with the “western” languages (Celtic and Italic) and borrowed much of its distinctive vocabulary from them...”, the term “Indo-Germanic” is as misleading as there would be in the animal kingdom the expression “Trilobito-Avian”(of trilobites & birds).

#3. We posit that the Slavic Languages as the organic trunk of the Indo-European Language Tree yield better terminology for the language branches. These branches would be Slav-Indoiranic, Slav-Armenanatolic, Slav-Tocharscythic, Slav-Suevandalgothic, Slav- Keltitalic and Slav-Helilyric.
Thus, for sake of a more accurate understanding of the phenomenon we must create a new lexicon. Based on the 19th Century word choice of “Indo-Germanic” it would seem legitimate to apply a more accurate designation such as “Indo-Slavic”. Similarly, to the west (based on the contributions of Ringe et al.) we are justified in using terminology such as “Germano-Slavic”.
Preliminary evidence had suggested to a few linguists that Tocharian A and B are somewhat linked to Italic (Kelt-Italic).
But based on geography, proximity, and the possible migration routes we are forced to accept Slavic as the missing link between western Europe and Chinese Turkistan.

#4. Dictates of foreign elites (German, Hungarian, Italian, French etc) have been imposed upon speakers of several Slavic languages and/or dialects.
However, standardized Slavic “literary” languages have also been forced upon the speakers of dialects. The ancient mosaic of the Slavic substratum throughout Europe was best preserved in those areas where national states failed to impose a standardized language dictated from capital cities.
Regional Slavic dialects survived best in Slovenia and adjacent (Slovenian speaking) regions of Italy, Croatia, Austria and Hungary.
Similar preservation of dialects survived among the Polabian Slavs, among the Lusatian Wend-Sorbs and in Moravia.

#5. Remarkably, Slavic elements persisted with great frequency in Old English of a thousand years ago. For example, in the Lords Prayer “Fader Ure”[9] Old English used the Slavic word for “bread”-“hlaf ” as in Chleb, Hleb, Chlieb, Chlib etc.
If one reads Psalm 23 in Old English it sounds much like a Slavic language. In this respect Old English is more Slavic than Modern English.
Cf. also the case of surnames [11]. Similar observations that an older version of a language is more similar to Slavic than a younger one, have been made also in the case of some other old languages, e.g. Sanskrit (Vedic vs. Classical Sanskrit, as well as vs. modern I-E languages in India), Etruscan p. 344, and Greek (Homer’s vs. Classical).

#6. We can lump certain language branches into “super-branches” like Iranian languages can be lumped with languages of India into Indo-Iranic, and Celtic and Italic languages can form a super-branch “Keltitalic”.
But, ultimately all the branches and super-branches issue from the Slavic trunk. The Slavic languages did not grow out of an “Indo-Germanic” trunk.

#7. Proto-Slavic is in fact synonymous with Proto-Indo-European and aught to be replaced in all literature.

#8. Slavic languages (because they were the substratum in Europe) continue to be more mutually intelligible than do the more recent Germanic, Romance, Celtic and other languages on the Continent.

#9. The Veneti of northern Italy and Wendi, Venedi and other Slavic people of western 93 and central Europe and (especially along the Amber Trail) who share similar spelling were the prototype Slavs and prototype Indo-Europeans. From here they had spread to Vladivostok to the east and Greenland (and North America) to the west, and India to the south east.
The Slavic people did not move westward from the Pripyat River marshes merely 1500 years ago but were autochthonic population of Europe since the Stone Age.
If there were any Slavic migration of any significance they would be in modern times towards Vladivostok. The Slavic toponymy observed in many parts of Europe [15] could be inherited from prehistoric Venetic-Slav populations or their predecessors.

CONCLUSION


From the proto-Slavic core in the Southeastern, Southern and Central Europe (originated from the Adriatic, Danubian, Aegean, and Black-Sea refugia during the Last Glacial Maximum) the people expanded, especially after the introduction of agriculture and stockbreeding in Neolithic.

After the Roman conquest, and especially after German conquest, the Slavic communities in western Europe (Great Britain, France) and central Europe (Germany, Switzeland, Austria, Hungary, Italy) experienced gradual decline and were finally systematically assimilated during last centuries.


Greeks are one of many children nations of the Veneti - Slaveni mother nation



'How do you explain pur n udor?' I suspect that pur, which, like udor n kuon, is found in Phrygian, is a foreign word; for the Hellenes have borrowed much from the barbarians, and I always resort to this theory of a foreign origin when I am at a loss...

Plato, Cratylus

There is an element of which he is unable to give an account. These unintelligible words he supposes to be of foreign origin, and to have been derived from a time when the Greeks were either barbarians, or in close relations to the barbarians.

[link to www.gutenberg.org]


Greeks are ok,
but they must not forget their Slavic roots


The affinity of the Slavic and Greek languages has recently been attempted to prove in several works. Dankovsky in his work, Die Griechen als Sprachverwandte der Slaven, Presburg 1828, contends that a knowledge of the Slavic language is of highest importance for the Greek scholar, as the only means by which he may be enabled to clear up obscure passages and to ascertain the signification of doubtful words. Among the historical proofs, he furnishes a vocabulary containing 306 Slavic and Greek words of striking analogy.

"Of three sisters," he observes, "one kept faithful to her mother tongue - the Slavic language; the second gave to that common heritage the highest cultivation - the Greek language; and the third mixed the mother tongue with a foreign idiom - the Latin language." A work of the same tendency has been published in the Greek language, by the Greek priest Constantine, Vienna 1828. It contains a vocabulary of 800 pages of Russian and Greek words, corresponding in sound and meaning.
[link to www.gutenberg.org]

It took the most right-wing ultra-hawkish administration the United States of America ever had to recognize FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia. The most Capitalist, most fanatical 21st, Century American mind-architects issued advice that placed political-expediance above academic reference-points. Driven by economic-security concerns, flip-charted scenarios, geo-strategic concerns, audio-visual presentations, all produced to 21st, Century standard pitted against political backdrop where FYRoM was seen to be onside and Greece was not. Greece played maverick...FYRoM played nice!

The point here is this: Decisions were made based on advice issued. Both had consequences that went against the core fundamental civilizational-priciples Western society is based on. GW Bush decision to recognize FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia was based on poor-quality substandard advice...ill-judged, ill thought-out advice - academically flawed advice. If the advice issued was flawed, then so was the decision that precipitated it. Those who acted on poor-quality advice are not to blame as much as those who issued the advice in the first place. So the advice-panel assembled to advise GW Bush have a lot to answer for, their advice was responsible for prolonging a name-dispute that would not have lasted this long had they issued proper academically accredited advice to begin with.

The Western worlds champion is the USA. The West depends on successive American administrations taking decisions that protect the fabric of Western society, it means defending those civilizational-principles it is based on...erode those principles and you begin a process of destruction that will see the Wests core cultural foundation crumble. It is inconceivable that this is what was intended when in November 2004, GW Bush was [ poorly ] advised to recognize a minor Slavic country by a Greek-Hellenic name. FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic. Nobody of worth, political diplomatic or academic confuses Paeonia for Macedonia or ex-Yugoslavs for Macedonians. That advice panel assembled to advise GW Bush have a lot to answer for!

The Western worlds cultural foundation depends on Macedonians being Centum-Greek speakers and Alexander the Great spreading Hellenism. Any diversion from this long-established academic reference-point will erode the civilizational principles Western society is based on. That advice panel cannot be allowed to get away from something that is so fundamental to the West. Issuing academically-flawed advice whos consequences might profoundly affect our understanding of Western worlds long-established cultural historical narrative is [[ revisionism ][ pseudo-history ][ propaganda ]] criminal, but much worse than that when issued to Western worlds chief protector, the President of the United States of America.

FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic - they do not speak Centum-Greek and they never spread Hellenism. In-fact, they hate Hellenism...the culture of choice for West, the bedrock on which Western society is grounded. That advice panel assembled to advise GW Bush cannot be allowed to get away from the consequence of issuing poor-quality, politically-mischievous advice to the highest office in Western world.

The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain, Greek-speakers created it. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage, endowment received from long-chain of Macedonians stretching back to days of King Karanus 778-808 BC. Only hardened propagandists or severely brainwashed individuals draw strength to speak publicly their indoctrination on this subject. Some politicized-propagandized Turks see modern-Greeks like Yunans, an eastern oriental term meaning Ionians. Ionians were ancient-Hellenes like Aeolians and Dorians. Collectively, they were known as Achaeans, according to Hittite records. Hittites recorded early-Greek peoples in cuniform, their writing system. Clay tablets preserved important peaces of historical information for posterity. Propagandized-Turks differentiate between Yunans Greeks Hellenes Byzantines and Rums, Turkish term for Eastern-Roman. Because Greeks are known by many names according to specific historical period, politicized-Turks play on this to distance modern-Greek from previous generations. Greeks live next to shrewed devious eastern-oriental Turkic-peoples that learned to play politics Western-style.

The Slavs of FYRoM do exactly what Turks do. Differentiate between Dorian-Greeks and Ionians, and Aeolians. From them, >230 known, ancient-Greek groups, tribes and kingdoms collectively affiliated to form the Hellenic-tribes from antiquity. Hellene is universal self-ascription for all Greeks. I am Hellene from Macedonia for example. I am Hellene from Sparta for another example. I am Hellene from Corinthia, for third example. Final example: A Macedonian conversing with other Greek is Macedonian but to foreigner, NoN-Greek stranger, he is Hellene...from Macedonia.

So Greeces neighbours, both Turkic and Slavic propagandists work in tandem to break the links that exist between modern-Greek and previous generations of Greek. For Turks, Greeks are not Eastern-Romans, Byzantium was not the Eastern Roman Empire, Hellenes were not Greeks, etc, etc, etc. The Slavs from FYRoM do the exact same thing with Macedonians and Greeks. Oriental Turks on the one hand, playing politics Western style, better in some cases than Westerners. FYRoM Slavs on the other hand, playing politics with human rights. They see it as inalienable right to self-determine after Greek-Hellenic name when Macedonians always self-ascribed Hellene, the host native, indigenous autocthnous name all Greeks ascribe universally.

The Haemus-peninsula is primordial homeland for Hellenes - Greeks shall never relinquish elements from their cultural-historical inheritance to politicized-Turks or propagandized FYRoM South-Slavs.

Macedonians have right to keep as close as possible the Identity-characteristics of their ancestors. Keeping Macedonia Greek is important for Hellenism. Hellenic culture is culture of choice for West...the foundation on which Western Civilization rests. Erode that and everything Hellenic crumbles. South-Slavs become Macedonians and Turks become Trojans - this is our future history if Greeces neighbours had their way!

June 11, 2014 at 7:54 AM

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what are angels for if not flaming
Hebrews 1:7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes ...
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If so, there is no necessary reference in the original psalm to angels. .... who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire: this cannot be understood ...
2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know ...
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in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who ... 1:5-10 Religion, if worth anything, is worth every thing; and those have no ... How will this strike the adoring angels with holy admiration, and transport thy ...

A cell divided is still a cell. An organism disected is still an organism. A people-group fragmented is still a people-group. Division disection or fragmentation does not detract from the fact that the loose parts assembled, make the whole from which they split. FYRoM is divided part of Slavic cell for example. Disected piece from Slav organism, for another example. Final example: FYRoM is fragmented portion from Slavic people-group. In this context, FYRoM cannot be the Macedonia it wants to be. Slavs cannot be Macedonians on same logic.

Macedonia is Hellenic on cell analogy, organism analogy and people-group analogy. Macedonia cannot cut loose from Hellenic cell naturally...force required to pierce membrane for example. Cutting Macedonia from Hellenic organism is another example. Final example: Macedonia is intrinsic integral componant of Hellenic people-group, important part of the whole...just one part of >230 parts. Macedonians stem from Dorian-Greeks same like Spartans. Macedonians are the northern branch whilst Spartans form the southern branch...both connect to Hellenism, to Hellenic cell, to Hellenic organism, to Hellenic people-group.

The Idea that Macedonia could be cut away from Hellas, and Macedonians cut-off from Hellenic collective of peoples, was only ever in the minds of some sick and twisted anti-Hellenic factions working to erode Hellenisms cultural contributions to Western Civilization. Anti-Hellenic factions employed in Western worlds highest political echelons lobbied for destruction of Greece, lobbied for erosion of Hellenic contributions to Western civil society, lobbied for slow incremental demise of civilization based on Greek wisdom and Roman jurisdiction.

To usher in new global monolithic-culture based on new belief systems, Western civilization was going to have to learn to live under rules and regulations. Monetary fiscal themes and synergies were to create new Economy Gods, Commercial Idols and Trade Idols the global community would look up to. Trade blocks working to rule were to replace Hellenic Ideals and core values with trade and commercial ones. This future was only in the minds of some sick and twisted anti-Hellenic mind-architects employed to lobby for replacement of Western Civilization with new one. Greece was the focus of their attention until they were ejected. On their will, and on their demands did FYRoM attain recognition as Republic of Macedonia.

Western societies future understandings of classicist history, cultural-inheritence, and legacy-endowments, would be greatly compromised if future history missed out on some vital important pieces of historical information...like Macedonians were Centum Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples for example. Ancient-Macedon was Greek Kingdom for another example. Final example: Alexander the Great was Greek King of Macedon. Messing with these long-established academic reference-points is what keeps the name dispute between FYRoM and Greece ongoing!

Whilst those sick and twisted anti-Hellenic, anti-Western mind-architects have long disappeared, lost in some other obscure 5th columnist cause...the 21st Century future they terraformed is stuck in the minds of some sick and twisted ex-Yugoslavs indoctrinated on their silliness...and on the silliness of Makedonism, the homegrown Slavist-based indoctrination they receive on daily basis that teaches Proto-Slavic origin of Dorian-Greeks. FYRoM's simple-minded, simple-hearted population get double whammy, shafted twice. Hard to recover from double whammy - FYRoM has long way to go before realization, they were simply minor pawns in effort to diminish Hellenisms cultural-historical contributions to Western Civilization.