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Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

 
Nick the Greek (OP)
User ID: 931694
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 11:15 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Macedonia(n)...when this name is used, it refer's to Greek Hellenic people by default, courtesy of world academia [The World Body of Knowledge].

Other's wanting to adopt or usurp this name should at least have the common courtesy to properly explain their reasons and their motives. Why would a NoN Greek people should want to claim a Greek Hellenic name exclusively for themselves in order to describe their language, ethnicity and nationality.

Macedonians have alway's been Greeks, since the beginning, from the dawn of time. Why would modern Slavs name their Slavic language "Macedonian" when the academic world can prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that ancient Macedonians spoke Greek and are considered to be a very important, integral part of the Greek Hellenic Collective of peoples as a whole.

As for ethnicity......well this is a manipulative concept / process, ethnicity can be manipulated created and manufactured under the right circumstances, for example...in a closed society, closed off from the rest of the world.

In modern times the world has witnessed Slavdom create a new country, they have presented us [the modern world] with a Belorussian ethnicity and nationality in modern times, where none existed in the past.

Slavs wanting to adopt or usurp the "Macedonian" name in order to describe their language ethinicity and nationality is very wrong purely on academic grounds alone. Macedonians have always been Greeks at every academic descipline, the academic world can prove this "beyond reasonable doubt".

FYRoM has not properly explained to the world, it's reasons and it's motives why they want to usurp that name [exclusively] for themselves in order to describe their Ethnicity Language and Nationalit. Global politicians and the International academic fraternity remain unconvinced and Suspicious, they have not been fully persuaded by FYRoM's positions on the matter.

For those Slavic people who, for one reason or another find Hellenism Repugnant should at least have the common courtesy to face and accept this basic fact, that todays Greeks are the sole and legal modern representatives of that Hellenic legacy. No other modern people on this planet are closer to the ancient Hellenes and their legacy, than today's modern Greeks.....today's Greeks will protect and defend this position, both Legally and Morally.

Todays Southernmost Slavs want this "Macedonian" name for exclusive use in order to describe their language, ethnicity and nationality, disrespecting world academia and the teachings of recorded established mainstream European ancient history.

Macedonia.....it's ancient history is impregnated, fused, scratched into the modern Greek Hellenic peoples Collective Consciousness in the same way that a lazer beam burns a latent image deep into the surfaces of plexi-glass or photoreceptive materials. Macedonia is inextricably and intinsically attached to Hellenism. No serious minded scholar would risk damaging his or her's academic integrity and credibility arguing against the findings and the intellectual might of world academia.

After almost two decades.....global politicians have been fully briefed on the backround and the historical use of the Macedonian name. They have become learned on the matter, they are aware of it's Greek Hellenic origins and attributes.

The Onus is on FYRoM to compromise in order to find a suitable Name for itself, a Name that will properly describe the country, it's people and their history....and Most importantly a Name for all of it's people to be Proud of, this is what the Greeks are asking for, this is what global politicians expect and this is what the world is waiting for!

FYRoM uses the Macedonian Name Under False Pretenses......The global community can see right through it!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 929725
Turkey
04/02/2010 11:17 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
can we ignore certain user's posts ? as in turn them off so that they wont clutter and screw up the screen with continous copy/paste posts they do from here and there ?
Hey Turk dude, it's a free forum dude right!

Or is the internet a reserve for the Turk, where only the Turk is free to teach us ancient European history.

I have witnessed the propaganda emanating from Turkish sources. The Turks become ancient and indigenous to Anatolia and the European Thrace region.

Oriental Turkmen have altered history, they want to start their perverse history with the Etruscans and the Trojans.

Is this what you want us to believe Turk dude.......?

FYRoM use Turkish resources and infrastructure to spread anti Greek propaganda on the internet, aided and abetted by
Turkmen. FYRoM and Turkey share much in common, you guys have a vested interest in ridiculing and humiliating us Greeks on a Global scale......well now it's payback time Turk dude!
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 931694


i dont give a fuck about this, that or the other.

just do not do mass copy/paste posting of the same shit. this is a manners issue. not anything else.

if you want to talk about stuff, do it properly by talking just like what you typed above. dont c/p from the same text files you saved there on your desktop or whatever.
Y
User ID: 932435
Slovakia
04/02/2010 11:26 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavs appeared in the 6th century AD.

it is not true. Nation, which already in 6th century lived in vast areas from Bavaria to Ural could not appear overnight (Prokopios wrote that Slvs occupy enormous spaces in Europe, he was Greek, so you should believe him). There were several Slav nations already described in ancient times - Anti, Wans, Scythians, Venedi (also called Vinidi, in German lands they were called Windisch), Slavi, Slavoni, Slovens, etc. For example in times of Vannius kingdom (Van - sic!) the realia in todays Slovakia and Hungary, as well as Austria up to Salzburgh had Slav and Celtic names. Realia means mountains, hills, rivers, parts of land, forests, etc. In spite of that people talk mof Vannius kingdom and Kvads as of German, just because Romans wrote so. But Romans did not differentiate too much between Slavs and Germans, neither Cletic - e.g. the name Germain was name of a Celtic(!!!) tribe in Galia, not of Allamanic or Teutonic. Etc. Proofs are many in archives, especially German and Italian, but in French, too, and mainly in Vatican. It has been the "historiography" in 19th century, when the history of Slavs had been crooked and twisted. Did you ever hear of Veles book? Btw in German and Sweedish sagas you an find, that when their ancestors came to their homeland from East, the land had been populated already by Wans, Jomsvikings were of Slav origin probably, too. etc, etc, etc...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 416242


Jeez.. don't you know? By western European standards we as Slavonics.. emerged from the ground somewhere in Ukraine during the 6th century and then without a fight took over half of Europe and kept it till today. Learn your mainstream history!! lmao Na neuverenie ako bola naša história prekrútená.
bed
Netizen Ribbonmind

User ID: 789349
United States
04/02/2010 11:27 AM

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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
....


Ftanei e? As min ginoume kourastikoi.
Ostria......


Einai Kathikon mas na ekpaithevsoume tin agnoia kai tin apatheia!
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 931694


Why do I understand greek and I've never studied it?
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]

FOLLOW EBOLA:
Thread: PAGE 1 UPDATES: Countries with Ebola~~ Suspects, Monitored, Outbreaks, Transfers, Denied, Maps and Negatives~COMPANY EXIT LIST
Nick the Greek (OP)
User ID: 931694
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 11:32 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
can we ignore certain user's posts ? as in turn them off so that they wont clutter and screw up the screen with continous copy/paste posts they do from here and there ?
Hey Turk dude, it's a free forum dude right!

Or is the internet a reserve for the Turk, where only the Turk is free to teach us ancient European history.

I have witnessed the propaganda emanating from Turkish sources. The Turks become ancient and indigenous to Anatolia and the European Thrace region.

Oriental Turkmen have altered history, they want to start their perverse history with the Etruscans and the Trojans.

Is this what you want us to believe Turk dude.......?

FYRoM use Turkish resources and infrastructure to spread anti Greek propaganda on the internet, aided and abetted by
Turkmen. FYRoM and Turkey share much in common, you guys have a vested interest in ridiculing and humiliating us Greeks on a Global scale......well now it's payback time Turk dude!


i dont give a fuck about this, that or the other.

just do not do mass copy/paste posting of the same shit. this is a manners issue. not anything else.

if you want to talk about stuff, do it properly by talking just like what you typed above. dont c/p from the same text files you saved there on your desktop or whatever.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 929725
I left it up to the Turk dude to use swear words first....I predicted it and it transpired cos the Turk is uncultured but he likes to talk about manner's to Europeans.

Listen to me Turk dude, you are better off going to the Turkistan forum where you can use your manner's and swear to your hearts content.

Now Turk dude, if you want to stay here, comment on the contents substance ok.

My aim is to educate the Ignorant and the Apathetic so as to enable them to make a learned judgment on the virtue of
recorded estalished academic reference points regarding ancient European history.

We can not have a situation where we allow Turkish and Slavic rogue scholar's to use the internet as a propaganda tool in order to teach their perverse corrupt and distorted versions of ancient European history
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 931599
Croatia
04/02/2010 11:34 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
....


Ftanei e? As min ginoume kourastikoi.
Ostria......


Einai Kathikon mas na ekpaithevsoume tin agnoia kai tin apatheia!


Why do I understand greek and I've never studied it?
 Quoting: bed

maybe because it is not in Greek alphabet?
deeznutz
User ID: 927903
Canada
04/02/2010 11:36 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
It is well known that the greek propagand machine is always in full force...How long before they get the big boot outa the Euro?
bed
Netizen Ribbonmind

User ID: 789349
United States
04/02/2010 11:37 AM

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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
maybe because it is not in Greek alphabet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 931599


I think you're right.thanks!
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]

FOLLOW EBOLA:
Thread: PAGE 1 UPDATES: Countries with Ebola~~ Suspects, Monitored, Outbreaks, Transfers, Denied, Maps and Negatives~COMPANY EXIT LIST
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 221865
United States
04/02/2010 11:43 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Known ancient Macedonian words

--note - taken from a greek site, so some passages may have a greek bias. usually, the ancient Macedonian word will appear first, followed by equivalents in the modern (slavic) Macedonian language. The Dihovo dialect, were referred to, is a modern dialect.

62. Bolin(th)os. (Th) for the Greek letter Theta.
The Makedonian and Paeonian name for the wild Buffalo.

A Structural Description of the Macedonian Dialect of Dihovo By B. M. Groen

Buffalo = Biol (Dihovo dialect)
feminine. Biolitsa
adjective. Bioltski

--Bolinthos (ancient "A")
--Biolitsa (modern "M")


61. Birrox (anc MK)
Thick

Bujat (Dihovo)
Dense



48. Badas. (anc MK)
A bad person, male whore, homosexual

Pedar - homosexual (modern MK)


56. Bedy. (Phrygian "water" vedy)
An ancient Goddess according to Klhmhs Bishop of Alexandreia.

57. Beidyoi.
The soothsayers, the seers.

Bedy
Beidyoi
Voda "water" modern
Vidi "to see" modern


63. Bra.
Hsyxios has it as: Bra' brothers of the Hleans, they change it later and
made it of the Illyrians, Aetolians, etc.etc

Brat "brother" (modern MK)


64.Brathy.
Species of the cedar bushes, (L. note possibly the --sbrenges -- of the
annual Christmas fires in Florina).

Bor "pine tree" (Dihovo dialect)
Borje plural
Bres "elm"
Bresje plural
Brdo "reed of a loom"


this one is funny:

66. Byttos.
The female genitals. This is one word that todays SKOPIANS took it from the Vlachs and still using it slightly paraphrased.(Pitche-Pitsha-Pitshcka).


hahaha, 'nuff said



67. Garka. ( The -G- stands for the Greek letter Gamma).
The stick,cane.rod.

Granka "a branch" modern MK


65. Bygh.
Another word for the spring, maybe not clearly a Makedonian one.
49. Bathalh. ( th for the Greek letter -theta-).
Spring, water spring.

Bygh
Bathalh
Butsalo "waterfall" (Dihovo dialect)



13.Agridion.
Small village.


Grad "city" modern MK



32. Amalh.
Soft.

Melino "soft mixture". "ground up" modern MK



38. Apellon.
The name of the city Aigeiros=Leykh=White=Poplar.

Belo "white" modern MK


70. Gota.
The pig.

Gojdo "animal", uncouth modern MK


74. Daitai.
The caterers, waiters.

Deti a child modern MK


81. Edeatros.
Initially the one tasting the foods for the king, later the organizer of the King parties.

Yadi "to eat" modern MK


29. Aliza.
The tree poplar.

Ela "alder" (Dihovo)
Elka "fir" modern



99. Kapein.
Pant, Gasp for air.


Kapnat "tired, out of breath" modern MK




105. Kebalh,Keblh, same as Kefalh.
The head.

GLAVA modern
Nick the Greek (OP)
User ID: 931694
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 11:56 AM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavs appeared in the 6th century AD.

it is not true. Nation, which already in 6th century lived in vast areas from Bavaria to Ural could not appear overnight (Prokopios wrote that Slvs occupy enormous spaces in Europe, he was Greek, so you should believe him). There were several Slav nations already described in ancient times - Anti, Wans, Scythians, Venedi (also called Vinidi, in German lands they were called Windisch), Slavi, Slavoni, Slovens, etc. For example in times of Vannius kingdom (Van - sic!) the realia in todays Slovakia and Hungary, as well as Austria up to Salzburgh had Slav and Celtic names. Realia means mountains, hills, rivers, parts of land, forests, etc. In spite of that people talk mof Vannius kingdom and Kvads as of German, just because Romans wrote so. But Romans did not differentiate too much between Slavs and Germans, neither Cletic - e.g. the name Germain was name of a Celtic(!!!) tribe in Galia, not of Allamanic or Teutonic. Etc. Proofs are many in archives, especially German and Italian, but in French, too, and mainly in Vatican. It has been the "historiography" in 19th century, when the history of Slavs had been crooked and twisted. Did you ever hear of Veles book? Btw in German and Sweedish sagas you an find, that when their ancestors came to their homeland from East, the land had been populated already by Wans, Jomsvikings were of Slav origin probably, too. etc, etc, etc...


Jeez.. don't you know? By western European standards we as Slavonics.. emerged from the ground somewhere in Ukraine during the 6th century and then without a fight took over half of Europe and kept it till today. Learn your mainstream history!! lmao Na neuverenie ako bola naša história prekrútená.
 Quoting: Y 932435
Slovak dude, we know all about Slavdom.

The Southern branch is where we find some of Slavdoms peoples having problems with their Slavic heritage, they appear to be Relunctant Slavs.

FYRoM seeks to "Script" itself a history deep into the myths and legends of the Hellenic world.

FYRoM.....Relunctant Slavs or Disloyal Greeks ?

[link to www.absoluteastronomy.com]

Yugoslavs translates to Southern Slavs

Since the break up of Yugoslavia, only one out of it's six constituant republics is still struggling to carve out a future for itself. FYRoM...the former Yugoslav republic wants to join the prestigious security and economic structures of nato and the european union but is having problems because it wants to use a Greek Hellenic name for it's language ethnicity and nationality.

FYRoM's rogue scholar's have even gone as far as to suggest that they are the only true descendants of alexander the great and the ancient macedonians of antiquity much to the annoyance of Greece, putting itself on a collision course with world academia [The World Body of Knowledge].
alex
User ID: 905669
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 12:08 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
If i can inquire.....where did this idea originate, it is impossible for the yugoslavs to be macedonian on the grounds that the slavic people penetrated the macedonian region almost 1000 years [ten centuries] after the death of alexander the great. Greece has historic rights over the ancient region of macedonia. The geographic area we know today as FYRoM or the former Yugoslav republic of macedonia, is not the real ancient macedonia at all, rather it is the ancient region of paeonia, if we are to be precise and factual about it!

The idea that modern fyromians [ex-yugoslavs] have anything to do with the ancient macedonians of antiquity is simply laughable and just plain silly!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 221865
United States
04/02/2010 12:16 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
want more heated discussion? go here.... [link to www.igenea.com]


EXCERPT:

Post from Kiril to 13.01.2010
To Chris, Rum and George and all the other Hellenic warriors out there that are in denial, please get over it! With every new genetic study, a little more light is shed on ancient Macedonians and it becomes obvious that the current inhabitants of the Republic of Macedonia have as much right, if not more than most to call themselves and their nation Macedonia.

You can put your spin on the igenea results and try to muddy the water, but eventually no matter how you look at it, it still means the same thing. There is a majority of inhabitants in ROM who have a genetic link to the Antic Macedonians and this fact totally refutes the nationalist Greek claim that today's so called "SLAVOMACEDONIAN" inhabitants of ROM have no right to anything Macedonian, especially Ancient Macedonian of which Greece claims as her exclusive property.

But please, keep sending your hypotheses to Roman, they are quite amusing although sad at the same time. Sorry Rum but, your theory about the 1000 Greeks mating with 90 Macedonians is a classic, I mean, what are you talking about man??? And now Chris and George think they are onto a winner, trying to link the invading slavs with Dardanians & Paneonians(dardanian + slav + paneonian = slavomacedonian). Really get over it!

If you want to read something interesting, see the Greek initiated and funded 2006 study below. Then read the critique by Steven Bird and you will see that even though the study was publicly a non event for its Greek owners, it again is another little piece of the genetic puzzle of what is Macedonian.

[link to www.nature.com]

[link to archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com]
Nick the Greek (OP)
User ID: 931694
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 12:16 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
The Struggle to Construct a 20th century "Macedonian" National Identity has not been a pleasurable experiance for those Slavik [mind] architects who's job it is to influence and shape the future of Slavdom for the benefit of the worlds 400 million Slavs. These slavik [mind] architects helped to conjure up a unified collective consiousness from the otherwise disparate peoples of FYRoM. Their main aim was to establish a Slavik language called "Macedonian". They achieved this in 1945 by mixing the Serb language with the Bulgarian. These Slavik [mind] architects want to ensure that linkage is established between the "Macedonian" name and their language / ethnicity / nationality which they seek to legitimise through the U.N. They aspire to join the prestigious security and economic structures of NATO and the E.U. but it has not been easy, Greece will not allow this new Slavik country to adopt or usurp one of it's core and ancient collective regional names [Macedonia] for their own exclusive use, to describe their recently created lanaguage, ethnicity and nationality.
[link to mondediplo.com]

Constructing Nations and National Identities is not that difficult. It was done all over Europe from the early 1800's, but nobody ever thought of the future consequencies.......Identity theft.......this concept has caught everybody by surprise.

What Europeans mostly have in common is the fact that for the last two centuries their forbears were engaged in a joint endeavour to manufacture National Identities which, though superficially specific, shared common and underlying similarities. It is easy enough to draw up a list of the Symbolic and Material items which any real Nation needs to possess:

1...A History establishing its continuity through the ages.

2...A set of Hero's embodying its National values.

3...A National Language to promote a common ethnos.

4...Cultural Monuments, Historic Sites.

5...National Religion.

6...Distinctive geographical features.

7...Folklore and Music with a specific mentality and a number of picturesque labels such as costume.

8...National dishes, common cuisine.

9...National Symbols.

10..National State Emblem.(usually depicting an Animal, Lion, Bird, Bear etc).

FYRoM was the last country in Europe and the First country of the 21st century to Construct a National Identity using the Tools above.
Almost a generation.....20 years have passed and the Newest country in Europe is still struggling with Item 1, Item 2 and Item 9 on the list above.

In the Face of Such Overwhelming Evidence, only a Hardened Propagandist or a Severely brainwashed Individual could deny the Greek Hellenic Identity of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians, but the Slavs wont give up, they will do whatever it takes.......even if it means brainwashing their own children, pupils and students to achieve their aims. Young Slavik children are raised to believe in a Slavik Alexander the Great, a protoSlavik hero "Aleksander Veliki" the first Czar, who spoke Oldchurch Slavonic to his troops in ancient times.

In Europe we must all be on the same page of our common European history book.....perversions distortions and corruption such as the example above is Slavic propaganda at it's worst.

World academia [The World Body of Knowledge] must ensure that this type of tuition be erased from the history lessons in Slavdoms class rooms.
Nick the Greek (OP)
User ID: 931694
United Kingdom
04/02/2010 12:29 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavdoms rogue scholars pseudo-historians and specialist propagandist's have found themselves trapped in a never ending debate regarding the
ethnicity and identity of Alexander the Great. To date 360 International Scholars and Academics of repute endorse and support a Greek Hellenic Identity for Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians.
[link to macedonia-evidence.org]

Slavdoms rogue scholars pseudo-historians and specialist propagandist's were given free licence to brainwash their Children Beyond Repair.....why ?

The allure of Alexander the Great having Slavonic Origins was the bait, ancient Greek Hellenic history was the trap. Slavdoms rogue scholars and pseudo-historians took the bait and trapped themselves in a never ending debate about the Greekness of the ancient Macedonians they are so destined to loose. These rogue scholar's have found themselves isolated, unable to defend their perverted theories ideas and conjectures. The International Academic Fraternity have laid down the Gauntlet.

Slavdoms rogue scholars pseudo-historians and specialist propagandist's are being challenged to reveal themselves, to form some sort of academic opposition to that of the International Academic Fraternity. World academia [The world body of knowledge] seek to quantify, confront then correct the problem.

In Europe we can not have a situation where established recorded mainstream historical teachings are being perversely corrupted and distorted. In Europe we must all be on the same page and on the same chapter in our common European history book.
Y
User ID: 932435
Slovakia
04/02/2010 12:31 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Slavs appeared in the 6th century AD.

it is not true. Nation, which already in 6th century lived in vast areas from Bavaria to Ural could not appear overnight (Prokopios wrote that Slvs occupy enormous spaces in Europe, he was Greek, so you should believe him). There were several Slav nations already described in ancient times - Anti, Wans, Scythians, Venedi (also called Vinidi, in German lands they were called Windisch), Slavi, Slavoni, Slovens, etc. For example in times of Vannius kingdom (Van - sic!) the realia in todays Slovakia and Hungary, as well as Austria up to Salzburgh had Slav and Celtic names. Realia means mountains, hills, rivers, parts of land, forests, etc. In spite of that people talk mof Vannius kingdom and Kvads as of German, just because Romans wrote so. But Romans did not differentiate too much between Slavs and Germans, neither Cletic - e.g. the name Germain was name of a Celtic(!!!) tribe in Galia, not of Allamanic or Teutonic. Etc. Proofs are many in archives, especially German and Italian, but in French, too, and mainly in Vatican. It has been the "historiography" in 19th century, when the history of Slavs had been crooked and twisted. Did you ever hear of Veles book? Btw in German and Sweedish sagas you an find, that when their ancestors came to their homeland from East, the land had been populated already by Wans, Jomsvikings were of Slav origin probably, too. etc, etc, etc...


Jeez.. don't you know? By western European standards we as Slavonics.. emerged from the ground somewhere in Ukraine during the 6th century and then without a fight took over half of Europe and kept it till today. Learn your mainstream history!! lmao Na neuverenie ako bola naša história prekrútená.
Slovak dude, we know all about Slavdom.

The Southern branch is where we find some of Slavdoms peoples having problems with their Slavic heritage, they appear to be Relunctant Slavs.

FYRoM seeks to "Script" itself a history deep into the myths and legends of the Hellenic world.

FYRoM.....Relunctant Slavs or Disloyal Greeks ?

[link to www.absoluteastronomy.com]

Yugoslavs translates to Southern Slavs

Since the break up of Yugoslavia, only one out of it's six constituant republics is still struggling to carve out a future for itself. FYRoM...the former Yugoslav republic wants to join the prestigious security and economic structures of nato and the european union but is having problems because it wants to use a Greek Hellenic name for it's language ethnicity and nationality.

FYRoM's rogue scholar's have even gone as far as to suggest that they are the only true descendants of alexander the great and the ancient macedonians of antiquity much to the annoyance of Greece, putting itself on a collision course with world academia [The World Body of Knowledge].
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 931694


Whatever DUDE.. keep spreading your agenda as much as you like. Like if I care about this puny dispute. As if history was something more than a lie above lie above just another lie as I was trying to sarcastically note in my initial message. It seems my intent did not deliver. But ohh well, what was I expecting from someone who blindly believes in the mainstream history and uses it to fuel his demagogy. Keep living in the past DUDE.. keep living in the past...
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 12:33 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Sicilian Greeks Boasted of FORCING Macedonians To Speak GREK




Stallman, The Life of St. Pancratius, pg 271. see footnote 77 on page 20 [link to www.clas.ufl.edu]

"Stallman observes that the Avar episode contains elements that betray Evagarius' narrative strategies. When Bonifatius presents his prisoners, the Taorminians declare that they will make the captives speak greek and latin and become Christians, as they have done before with Persians and Macedonians..."

see full footnote for context. See also footnotes 78 & 79.



for some context from BOTH sides, a Macedonian and a greek reply:

Macedonian:

Paul Post subject: Re: Sicilian Greeks Boasted of FORCING Macedonians To Speak GREKPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:45 am


What I'm getting out of this is that it was believed by this author, at that time, that the native langauge of the ancient Macedonians was neither Greek, nor was it Latin. This is a pretty substantial find, coming from an early Byzatnine source, because what it suggests is that the ancient Macedonians, whoever they were, were barbarians in ancient times, and remained barbarians, under Roman rule, and were still, barbarians, under Byzantine rule.

Has one kind of barbarian, replaced another, in Macedonia?


Greek:

def_na_ginti Post subject: Re: Sicilian Greeks Boasted of FORCING Macedonians To Speak GREKPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:15 am

As for the biography of St. Pancratios,we haven't seen the original text but an indirect citation that mentions the specific passage about Persians and Macedonians who didn't spoke Greek and were not Christians.Perhaps in the original text the Byzantine author spoke of Slavs of Macedonia (or Macedonian Slavs) and the modern authors interpret it as Macedonians,who knows.
Anonymous Coward
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Turkey
04/02/2010 12:34 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
that guy's biggest problem is, macedonians claiming the name macedonia under 'falsified pretenses' in his logic.

holy shit. some people really live a happy and easy life.
Nick the Greek (OP)
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04/02/2010 12:42 PM
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This Observation does not apply to the ignorant or to the apathetic, but if you mention the name Macedonia at discussion group gatherings or similar, for whatever reason, if you do get a response it is highly likely that the respondent is learned enough to know about the geographic region and it's ancient history.

To an outsider, in his or her Minds Eye, he or she would have conjured up an Image of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians dressed up in the ancient military attire dress code, one immediately associates with the dress codes generally used in ancient Greece.
[link to www.flickr.com]

To a Modern Greek, in his or her Minds Eye, he or she would have conjured up vivid Images of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians which for the Greeks has been fused into their collective conciousness, if imagined it would be similar to that of a lazer beam burning a latent Image deep into the surfaces of plexi-glass or photoreceptive materials, whereby that latent image becomes permanent and kept safely stored in all of it's glory in a biological memory bank location just waiting to be conjured up at the next memory recall. This observation is based on the fact that the Imagery modern Greeks would have received and absorbed about ancient Macedonians through the means of educational materials, local and regional site museums plus the vast amounts of physical Imagery supporting the Indigenous status of the Ancient Macedonians to Hellas.

To a FYRoMian, in his or her Minds Eye, he or she would have conjured up an Image of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians based on flawed ill thought out Slavic Propaganda. In FYRoM's collective conciousness, in the Minds Eye of young FYRoMians Alexander the Great remains dressed up in the military attire dress code associated with ancient Greece, except this time, and only for them, Alexander the Great speaks Slavic has blond hair with high Slavic cheek bones depicting a stereotypicall tall blond protoSlavic warrior.

In the Minds Eye of Slavdoms Rogue Scholar's Pseudo Historians and Specialist Propagandist's, Greeks do Not Exist and Hellenism becomes a Loaded word, for them Alexander the Great becomes Slavic, he speaks Oldchurch Slavonic in ancient times and remains an ancient ProtoSlavic hero, the first Czar.

For them and only for them ancient Macedonians were not Greeks or Hellenes, for them ancient Macedonians were ancient protoSlavs.

Can You See Something Wrong With This Picture.....?
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 12:45 PM
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Macedonians: Europe's Native Sons


here is a video and text explaining the origin and spread of haplogroup I, which is the largest dna marker in today's Macedonians. It also explains haplogroup R1a - the second largest genetic signature in us, and I get the impression that it too spread from the balkans north into russia etc, though I'm not sure about this latter haplogroup. The haplogroup I info is quite clear, and while it doesn't specifically mention Macedonians, it does mention serbs, who are very close to us genetically

enjoy

[link to www.genebase.com]


from the same link above

Macedonianics spread NORTH to Russia 15,000 years ago


of course i'm making inferences about the language spread since we don't know what languages these people spoke, but we DO see a genetic spread from Macedonian territory NORTH to eastern slav areas 15,000 years ago


SNPy trails and the spread of Haplogroup I
The human populations with haplogroup I expanded around 15kya, which coincides with estimates for the TMRCA and divergence of subclades of I. It is at this time that subclade I1 is thought to populate Fennoscandia (present day countries of Norway, Sweden, and Finland). The migration likely took place through present day France, Germany and Denmark, though the exact routes are not known with certainty. Subsequent expansion and migration of an I1 subclade and its subclades populated the British Isles and Iceland. The Vikings were the likely candidates for the spread of I1 subclades and there are studies that link the Celtic, Anglo-Saxon and Germanic heritages to I1. The Balkan refuge, representing subclade I2 likely spread northeast into Russia. The populations comprising I2 are tightly linked with Slavs. The subclade, I2a2, found almost exclusively in Sardinia where it makes up nearly 40% of all haplogroups on this island is also present in France and Iberia and makes these locations the likely source of this unique branch of I.

[link to www.genebase.com]


context and background here:

[link to www.maknews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Was supported by the GREEK government??????????????

what's this all about. does anyone have any energy to research this dynamic further? if nothing else it confirms bulgaro/greek manipulation of the Macedonian people


[link to en.wikisource.org]


A Manifesto from the Provisional Government of Macedonia - 1881
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Wikisource:Macedonia A Manifesto from the Provisional Government of Macedonia - 1881
The Provisional Government of Macedonia, translated by Wikisource
The Manifesto was proclaimed on 23rd March 1881 in Kustendil (now in Bulgaria). It was sent to all diplomatic representatives in Bitola, Solun and Carigrad (now Istambul). It is one of the most significant acts issued by the Provisional Government of Macedonia, an executive body of the National Assembly of Macedonia. The Manifesto was found in the documentation of the Central State Archives of the October Revolution and Socialist Construction in Moscow (Section Count Ignatiev, No 730, Description No 1, ed. hr. 79).

A MANIFESTO OF THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF MACEDONlA

23rd March 1881

Macedonians,

Our dear fatherland Macedonia was once one of the most glorious countries. Macedonian nation established the foundations of the art of war; with their victorious phalanx and Aristotles enlightenment they civilized the humanity and Asia. And now our fatherland, so glorious in the past, is on the verge of destruction, thanks to our mistakes and carelessness. Foreign and suspicious nations want conquer our homeland and destroy our nation, which, shining with such a light, will never be destroyed. Our mother Macedonia became now as a widow, lonely and deserted by her sons. She does not fly the banner of the victorious Macedonian army. Today she is just a geographic term. Much like if someone is trying to hide her victorious nature with the veil off oblivion. Conspirators have dug her grave and roam through our land, injecting poisons in her. These conspirator are the undertakers of our glorious and great fatherland, they want to dismember it and lay it as a pray in front of the victorious army of Austria-Hungary. If one joke is replaced with yet another, the revival of Macedonia will become impossible, and our nation will be eradicated. This moment is of utmost importance for Macedonia, it is a question of life or death.

Real Macedonians, faithful offspring of your fatherland!

Will you let your fatherland to be destroyed? Look at her, how she is suffocated in slavery, bleeding from the wounds that the surrounding nations have inflicted her with! Look at the heavy chains that the Sultan has put her in! In such a helpless state, all in tears, our dear Macedonia, our beloved fatherland is calling you: my faithful children, you descendents of Aristotle and Alexander the Great, you in whose veins flows Macedonian blood dont leave me to die, help me! It would be a great shame for you, true Macedonians, if you remain silent witnesses of my burial. No, no, here are my awful bloody wounds, here are my heavy chains: beak them, heal my wounds, do whatever is in your power so the words Allied and United Macedonia can be written on the banner that I will raise. When you succeed victoriously, drive away the killer from this land, who fly the banner of discord and sow perilous ideas, dividing you, my children, into countless nations, and so united under the banner of Macedonia, as one nation, rise high that glorious banner and prepare to write single-mindedly on it:

Long live the Macedonian nation! Long live Macedonia!

This is the voice of our country; this is our freedom our national inheritance. If you proclaim these words, you will be greeted by the free thinking nations and all graceful hears will hurry up to join you and fight with you, to help you gain the holy freedom, that has been taken away from us for so many centuries.

Macedonians, remember you ancestry, and dont give up on it!

Kustendil, 11th/23rd March 1881 True to the original Dospat 18th/30th April 1881.

President, Vasil Chomo[1]

Secretary, Nikola Trajkov

Central State Archives of the October Revolution and Socialist Construction in Moscow (Section Count Ignatiev, No 730, Description No 1, ed. hr. 79), Ljuben Lape, Odbrani tekstovi za istorijata na makedonskiot narod II del Skopje 1976 str. 256-258.

Also known as Vasil Simon.

This manifest is mentioned by the Bulgarian Patriarch Kiril in the Book: (1877-1878), vol. 1/1, : , 1969, p. 461-466, 485. In this book he mentions that one of the most active members of the Macedonian National Assembly was Leonidas Vulgarakis, hence he concludes that the Assembly was supported by the Greek government.
Nick the Greek (OP)
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
that guy's biggest problem is, macedonians claiming the name macedonia under 'falsified pretenses' in his logic.

holy shit. some people really live a happy and easy life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 929725
Hey Turk dude, at least have the common decency to address me direct.....where are your manner's dude talking behind my back like that, that is just plain rude dude!

Listen to this Turk dude......

1......Is it not false and pretentious to tell the world that FYRoMians speak "Macedonian" when the academic world already know that the ancient Macedonians did not speak any form of Slavic at all, instead they spoke Greek. This is an academic reference point, not easily brushed aside.

2......Is it not false and pretentious to tell the world that a Macedonian ethnicity existed during the Ottoman era when, in all of the recorded census statistics that are available we can clearly conclude that a Macedonian ethnic or Racial group has never existed ever....it first appears during and after the advent of the Bulgarian exarchate!

3......Is it not false and pretentious to tell the world that a "Macedonian" nationality exist's because FYRoMians speak "Macedonian" and feel "Macedonian" therefore they are Macedonians.

Turk dude......I can see conflict and despair!

Macedonia(n)...when this word is used, it refer's to Greek Hellenic people, courtesy of world academia [The World Body of Knowledge]

Macedonia Void of it's Hellenic Elements is NOT Macedonia at all!

Macedonia(n) by deception is NOT Macedonian at all!

It would be foolish and false to Claim Otherwise.

Turk dude....is it not an insult to the Greeks for FYRoM to
continue with it's false and pretentious claims!
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 01:11 PM
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wow, just found this. geneticists analyzed ancient dna found in modern turkey and found a great match with modern people from Bosnia, Macedonia and northern greece. They have a strong indication these people may have been brough to turkey by the Macedonian Seleucid empire! We are closing in......the GENETIC BODY OF EVIDENCE GROWS! sorry greece.....


------------------------------------------------------



mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is dna passed down by mother to daughter. Is this report strongly hinting that dna of female human remains is from settlers of the Macedonian Seleucids (one of the four successor kingdoms to Alexander the Great) to Sagalassos, Turkey, and has been most closely matched to modern-day females from Bosnia, Macedonia and northern Greece???? IF SO, we have a DIRECT CONNECTION to the ancient Macedonians!

Genetic insight into an ancient population from Anatolia: first data from the archaeological site of Sagalassos

Human bone and tooth samples from 57 individuals (dated between the 11th and 13th century AD by AMS carbon dating of human bones) belonging to the same low social status population grouphave been so far genetically analyzed. Extraction of DNA and amplification of the two hypervariablesegments (HVS-I and HVS-II) of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region were successful andreproducible in 28 out the 57 individuals. The sample as a whole is characterized by a typical West-Eurasian mtDNA variation, with the haplogroup H being the most represented (25%). Comparative analyses with more than 4,300 sequences from eurasian populations points to a high genetic affinity with Southeastern Mediterranean. More particularly an affinity is observed at the genealogical level with mtDNA lineages from the Balkan area, more in detail Macedonia, Northern Greece and Bosnia.This might represent a genetic signature of the settlements installed by the Seleucides (330-150 B.P.) from Macedonia in Northern Pisidia. No contribution of Central Asian mtDNA pool has been so far observed


Claudio Ottoni1,3, Nancy Vanderheyden1, François-Xavier Ricaut3,4, RonnyDecorte1,2, Marc Waelkens51Laboratory of Forensic Genetics and Molecular Archaeology, KU Leuven, Leuven, Belgium; 2Center forHuman Genetics, KU Leuven, Leuven, Belgium; 3Center for Archaeological Sciences, KU Leuven,Leuven, Belgium; 4Laboratoire d´Anthropobiologie, Université de Toulouse, Toulouse, France;5Department of Archaeology, KU Leuven, Leuven, Belgium

[link to www.cnrs.fr]

cache: [link to 74.125.93.132]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 221865




BUMP, BUMP, BUMP, BUMP, BUMP!
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 01:19 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb;57(2):118-27.

HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks.
Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gómez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martínez-Laso J.

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es

ABSTRACT

HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

PMID: 11260506 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 221865




ARAB genetic study CONFIRMS the above study's finding of greek relatedness to subsaharan Africa -- and puts a dagger in the heavy greek and scientific criticism of the original Spanish study:


1: Eur J Med Genet. 2006 Jan-Feb;49(1):43-56. Epub 2005 Feb 10. Links
HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Ghannouch area) and their relationship with other Mediterraneans.Hajjej A, Hmida S, Kaabi H, Dridi A, Jridi A, El Gaa l ed A, Boukef K.
National Blood Transfusion Centre, Tunis, Tunisia.

South Tunisian HLA gene profile has studied for the first time. HLA-A, -B, -DRB1 and -DQB1 allele frequencies of Ghannouch have been compared with those of neighboring populations, other Mediterraneans and Sub-Saharans. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, Neighbor-Joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Our HLA data show that both southern from Ghannouch and northern Tunisians are of a Berber substratum in spite of the successive incursions (particularly, the 7th-8th century A.D. Arab invasion) occurred in Tunisia. It is also the case of other North Africans and Iberians. This present study confirms the relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharan populations. This suggests that there was an admixture between the Greeks and Sub-Saharans probably during Pharaonic period or after natural catastrophes (dryness) occurred in Sahara.

PMID: 16473309 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Nick the Greek (OP)
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Slavs appeared in the 6th century AD.

it is not true. Nation, which already in 6th century lived in vast areas from Bavaria to Ural could not appear overnight (Prokopios wrote that Slvs occupy enormous spaces in Europe, he was Greek, so you should believe him). There were several Slav nations already described in ancient times - Anti, Wans, Scythians, Venedi (also called Vinidi, in German lands they were called Windisch), Slavi, Slavoni, Slovens, etc. For example in times of Vannius kingdom (Van - sic!) the realia in todays Slovakia and Hungary, as well as Austria up to Salzburgh had Slav and Celtic names. Realia means mountains, hills, rivers, parts of land, forests, etc. In spite of that people talk mof Vannius kingdom and Kvads as of German, just because Romans wrote so. But Romans did not differentiate too much between Slavs and Germans, neither Cletic - e.g. the name Germain was name of a Celtic(!!!) tribe in Galia, not of Allamanic or Teutonic. Etc. Proofs are many in archives, especially German and Italian, but in French, too, and mainly in Vatican. It has been the "historiography" in 19th century, when the history of Slavs had been crooked and twisted. Did you ever hear of Veles book? Btw in German and Sweedish sagas you an find, that when their ancestors came to their homeland from East, the land had been populated already by Wans, Jomsvikings were of Slav origin probably, too. etc, etc, etc...


Jeez.. don't you know? By western European standards we as Slavonics.. emerged from the ground somewhere in Ukraine during the 6th century and then without a fight took over half of Europe and kept it till today. Learn your mainstream history!! lmao Na neuverenie ako bola naša história prekrútená.
Slovak dude, we know all about Slavdom.

The Southern branch is where we find some of Slavdoms peoples having problems with their Slavic heritage, they appear to be Relunctant Slavs.

FYRoM seeks to "Script" itself a history deep into the myths and legends of the Hellenic world.

FYRoM.....Relunctant Slavs or Disloyal Greeks ?

[link to www.absoluteastronomy.com]

Yugoslavs translates to Southern Slavs

Since the break up of Yugoslavia, only one out of it's six constituant republics is still struggling to carve out a future for itself. FYRoM...the former Yugoslav republic wants to join the prestigious security and economic structures of nato and the european union but is having problems because it wants to use a Greek Hellenic name for it's language ethnicity and nationality.

FYRoM's rogue scholar's have even gone as far as to suggest that they are the only true descendants of alexander the great and the ancient macedonians of antiquity much to the annoyance of Greece, putting itself on a collision course with world academia [The World Body of Knowledge].


Whatever DUDE.. keep spreading your agenda as much as you like. Like if I care about this puny dispute. As if history was something more than a lie above lie above just another lie as I was trying to sarcastically note in my initial message. It seems my intent did not deliver. But ohh well, what was I expecting from someone who blindly believes in the mainstream history and uses it to fuel his demagogy. Keep living in the past DUDE.. keep living in the past...
 Quoting: Y 932435
Slovak dude, history means alot to the Greeks, it is very important us, you can not walk long distances in Greece without encountering something physical from the past.

Slovak dude...you Slav guys ridicule and humiliate us, you insult us with your perverted accounts ancient history.

FYRoMians have poisoned the atmosphere between Greeks and Slavs the consequencies of this will manifest themselves as and when the name dispute gets resolved and rest assured it will get resolved....then those rogue scholar's and specialist propagandist's will have no whwere to go, no hiding place, they will have a lot of explaining to do!
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 01:23 PM
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Re: Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav
Hey Greek dude, more than 400 milion slavic ppl knows and recognizes Macedonia as it is; state of Macedonia
Even majority of Greeks do not care...

q;So why this antagonism?
a:Money & profit

Hold your neigbour in blocade and get;cheap agrocultural product from macedonia, cheap labour aka good bussines

and of course false sense of self power and importance
since Roman empire teritory of Greek is colony under foregin rule, unsignificante state overun by Germans, brits, whoever...
even now Greeks a begging Germany (ex. occupators LOL) for more euros
a bancrupt state with bully mentality
Nick the Greek (OP)
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FYRoM has poisoned the Minds of it's Youth. They have Brainwashed Slavdoms Youth Beyond Repair. The allure of Alexander the Great having Slavonic origins was bait so enticing that even the most dubious and the most flimsiest of material evidence was sufficient enough to promote a Slavic Identity for Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians. Flawed Slavic Propaganda promoted for the most Sinister of Reasons and Motives.

Slavdoms [Mind] Architects have instilled into the collective conciousness of their young people, Imagery of Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians dressed in the military attire learned people would associate with ancient Greece, except this time and only for them, ancient Macedonians become Slavic people, they take on the features and attributes one associates with stereotypical Slavs......Tall blond with high Slavic cheek bones.
[link to www.picatom.com]

Slavs are usually depicted as very simple earthy type people, farmer's and worker's of the land but strong honest and robust.

In the Minds Eye of a Brainwashed Modern Slavic FYRoMian child pupil or student, the ancient Slavs take on a distinct Hellenic Look:
[link to www.flickr.com]

In Slavdoms Minds Eye........The Hellenic Ancient Macedonians become Slavic. Hellenic Imagery migrates over into Slavdoms ancient hero's.
Alexander the Great becomes Aleksander Veliki a Great ProtoSlav hero the first Czar!

This is what you get when you allow Rogue Scholars Pseudo Historians and Specialist Propagandist's to play around with peoples Minds.
Anonymous Coward
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04/02/2010 01:37 PM
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NICK THE GREEK:

what about the genetic reports? they do place our ancestors in the area of Macedonia (or close by) from up to 15,000 years ago. that's a lot earlier than 600 AD isn't it? How can we be "newcomers who came after the time of Alexander" when the two main male lineages (and now also a female lineage) go back to at least the time of the Mycenaen invasion, and how could we be "600 AD invading slavs from the pripet marshes" when the genetic evidence is showing either a) that today's russians and ukrainians went to russia FROM the Balkans, or b) ancestors of the russians invaded the Balkans (and Macedonia) 4000 years ago -- well before the time of Alexander?

do you just disregard this NEW genetic evidence from multiple studies from multiple sources, but want us to believe your unsourced cut and paste propaganda?

i think greece owes the Republic of Macedonia $ billion$ for having slapped an embargo on us over the name. i know, get in line, uh.
Nick the Greek (OP)
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Hey Greek dude, more than 400 milion slavic ppl knows and recognizes Macedonia as it is; state of Macedonia
Even majority of Greeks do not care...

q;So why this antagonism?
a:Money & profit

Hold your neigbour in blocade and get;cheap agrocultural product from macedonia, cheap labour aka good bussines

and of course false sense of self power and importance
since Roman empire teritory of Greek is colony under foregin rule, unsignificante state overun by Germans, brits, whoever...
even now Greeks a begging Germany (ex. occupators LOL) for more euros
a bancrupt state with bully mentality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 931599
Croatian dude, the Slavic countries recognise FYRoM as RoM simply out of PanSlavic affiliation, after all you see FYRoM as belonging to the Slavic Collective of peoples.

FYRoM has disgraced Slavdom by falling into the arms of the Turk where the FYRoMian diaspora freely use Turkish and Turkish Cypriot infrastructure and resources to spread anti-Greek propaganda around on the internet and beyond.

The internet is littered with vile virulent and vehement anti-Greek propaganda, modern Greeks have been rubbished on their Genes, Anthropolgy, Religion, Culture and Traditions.

We can not let this attack on modern Greek Identity go unchallenged croatian dude, too much damage has been done, there is a price to pay and now it's payback time!
Nick the Greek (OP)
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04/02/2010 01:57 PM
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NICK THE GREEK:

what about the genetic reports? they do place our ancestors in the area of Macedonia (or close by) from up to 15,000 years ago. that's a lot earlier than 600 AD isn't it? How can we be "newcomers who came after the time of Alexander" when the two main male lineages (and now also a female lineage) go back to at least the time of the Mycenaen invasion, and how could we be "600 AD invading slavs from the pripet marshes" when the genetic evidence is showing either a) that today's russians and ukrainians went to russia FROM the Balkans, or b) ancestors of the russians invaded the Balkans (and Macedonia) 4000 years ago -- well before the time of Alexander?

do you just disregard this NEW genetic evidence from multiple studies from multiple sources, but want us to believe your unsourced cut and paste propaganda?

i think greece owes the Republic of Macedonia $ billion$ for having slapped an embargo on us over the name. i know, get in line, uh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 221865
U.S. dude, it's called "Slavicization" dude!

I have always said that Southern Slavs are more Greek Hellenic than they care to mention, look at the morphology of the Southern Slavs compared to the other two branches of Slavdom.

Hellenic Elements exist north of the current Greek Hellenic border. Native Autochthonous Genes you get from your Greek Hellenic side but like i said before in my previous post's in this thread....it does not mean Macedonian Genes.

Slavs entered the Balkan Peninsular in the 6th Century A.D. cross fertilization occured [[by force][free will]] this was limited and controlled, Byzantine documents exist which back this claim but nevertheless mixing did occur between incoming invader settler's Slav Avar Bulgar and......

Hellenes Hellenized Thracians Hellenized Illyrians
plus Romans Romanized Thracians Romanized Illyrians
[Eastern Romans] Romioi....Greek speaker's of the Byzantine Empire of Which an unquantifiable Macedonian Element can not be ruled out.

In Plain Terms and Simple Language.....Incoming Slavs Avars and Bulgars mixed with Romioi which equates to Greeks and or assimilated / Hellenized Greek speakers of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Anonymous Coward
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I have always said that Southern Slavs are more Greek Hellenic than they care to mention,
 Quoting: Nick the Greek 931694

Exactly, this is obvious from just looking at them, so why do you call them usurpers for identifying with Hellenic Greece?

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