Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

Infantile little TurkoSlavo Monkey!

Greeks have right to defend-protect their National-history - heritage - cultural-inheritence from the likes of Slavist-orientated revisionist pseudo-historians like You!

Macedonians are Greek from since the days of King Karanus 808 - 778 BC. An ancient - historic - regional people-group
of ethnic-Greek stock.

Ethnicity = Pride...Ethnic-Greek = Proud-Greek, right down to my blue and white socks!

Now tell me about your Pride!

I'm not from FYRom and you are simply prick from turdistan.

If you knew anything about Ancient Greece you would notice that I adressed you the way Spartans were regularly addressing Athenians.

and now go borrow some more money.

The Idea that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are the rightful heirs and inheritors of the ancient-Macedonian legacy is an abhorrent Idea, confined only to the realms of revisionism and pseudo-history. Macedonians have always been a Greek speaking peoples from Dorian Hellenic stock...a racially different people-group from the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM.

FYRoM's ancestral-forebears are the Slavic tribes recorded in the historical archives as having settled the Eastern-Roman Empire during the dark ages onwards...from 6th - 9th Century AD. FYRoM's Slavic ancestors are the Berziti, Draguvites, Ezerites, Melingoi, Recchines, Sagudats, Smolyani, Strymonites, Velegesites, Zagorites. None of them self-Identified or self-determined as Macedonians, that term was unheard of, foreign to Slavs.

The Idea that the Macedonians cross-fertilized with the Slavs, and through this union were absorbed into the Slavic Milieu, is an opprobrius Idea, given that the demographic composition of the area was made up of Greek-speakers that self-Identified as "Romioi" Eastern-Romans. The Macedonian term, along with other ancient-Hellenic regional-tribal names were ditched, disregarded to oblivion in favour of the universal - supra-National term Romioi...meaning Roman.

That the Eastern-Roman (Byzantine) Empire absorbed multitudes of exogenous, NoN-Greek peoples into it's dominion and Hellenized them, is a recorded fact...the Hellenic element being the catalyst, the binding force which connects Greeks and Hellenized-peoples back to the golden-age, an epoch where Hellenic Ideals and core values set the standard.

Todays Greeks are the sole legitimate heirs and inheritors of the (Byzantine) Eastern-Roman legacy. The path of least resistance connects Greeks to Byzantium, and through them, Greeks connect to an older heritage...the Hellenic one.

FYRoM has spent the last 21 years trying to persuade and convince the outside world that they are the legitimate heirs to the ancient-Macedonian legacy when there is nothing Macedonian about them. They call themselves ethnic-Macedonians and their country Macedonia when their is nothing Hellenic about them. The Hellenic element in FYRoM is completely missing.

Man you are simply obsessed.\

Noone claims anything but you.

It is well known that Phillip had to conquer stubborn Athenians in order to defeat Persia.

This whole thread historically does not make any sense as those people were not neither Greek neither Slav in modern way of thinking and understanding.

Like Jews from Israel today are not the same people that were cleansed by the Romans.

And by the way today Greeks are mainly Turko kind of People.
Not Slavs.So do not tackle that subject.

1 - [link to www.historyofmacedonia.org] All kinds of claims made here. FYRoM anti-Hellenic - anti-Western - Propaganda site.

2 - Ok!

3 - Ok!

4 - Are there different kinds of Jews ? Can NoN-Jews use Jewish names for self-Identity and for self determination purposes ?

5 - TurkoSlavoMongol Monkey!

Visited your grandgrandmother.

heheheh.:))

Baby boy is basing his entire thesis on this passage:


"Caranus also came to Emathia with a large band of Greeks, being instructed by an oracle to seek a home in Macedonia. Here, following a herd of goats running from a downpour, he seized the city of Edessa, the inhabitants being taken unawares because of heavy rain and dense fog. Remembering the oracle’s command to follow the lead of goats in his quest for an empire, Caranus established the city as his capital, and thereafter he made it a solemn observance, wheresoever he took his army, to keep those same goats before his standards in order to have as leaders in his exploits the animals which he had had with him to found the kingdom. He gave the city of Edessa the name Aegae and its people the name Aegeads in memory of this service"

What you fail to understand is that Alexander the Great is not of this blood line.

Find the parents of Amyntas III of Macedon and we may forever understand his true lineage.

On a side note, I would literally beat the shit out of you if you spoke to me like that in person. The internet's anonymity saves the day again, scum.

Nick is correct that this Modern day Macedonia has no right to claim it's sole heritage to those times. And also the way they do it is very kitsch tasteless..
Greek have right to deny them that kind of Historic usurpation.

About everything else he is very wrong.

Alexander was from Mixed families and no wonder he was trying to be friendly to various peoples as he saw himself and his own diversity in them and they saw him as their own.

Even today we have some tribes in Pakistan and Afghanistan that claim he was one of them. Not only from Turdistan.
But he was one of them too. :)

Considering Greeks and Alexander

They were not friends. It was Greeks that got together with Mobs of Babylon and possibly betrayed and poisoned him and tired to wipe out his whole family.

Greek Elite was also furious on Alexander that he did not aloud defeated Persians to be their slaves , but made friends with them. And that he did not believe their scholars who told that End of the World is at India , but went there personally with whole bunch of witnesses to prove them wrong.And they hated him for that.

So Greek have no claim to claim Historic Alexander either.

But one from Myth.. Yeah everyone claims him.Not only Nick the Greek

I ASK MYSELF OVER AND OVER AND OVER, WHY IN BELLOMORSKA MACEDONIA IN GREECE, YOU HAVE MACEDONIANS , OR SLAVIC TOPONIMES OF THE CITIES , TOWNS, RIVERS.

VODEN = WATER CITY
KOSTUR = BONED PLACE - LIKE KOSTURICA
VOLOS = VELES , THE FAMOUS SLAVIC GOD.
KOZANI = GOAT CITY - KOZAK, SIMULAR WITH KAZAK STAN IN RUS.

ASK YOUR SELF, AND YOU WILL FIND AN ANSWER.

THE SAME IS FOR ARTIFICIAL DAGESTANI STATE OF ALBANIA.

Berat , CITY IN THE M I D D L E OF ALBANIA WAS KNOWN AS THE BELIGRAD, BEOGRAD, WHITE CITY , BEFORE ISLAMIC HORDES COME INTO THE BALKAN.


GREEKS, TRY TO FIND THE TRUTH.
IN THE PREVIOUS EPOCH WE WERE LIVING IN SLAVIC CIVILIZATION.

FROM HAMBURG TO PERSIA
FROM BELO EGEJSKO MORE TO BLATNO (BALTIC) MORE.

OUR HISTORY IS REWRITTEN IN THE SAME MANNER AS IRISH OR SCOTTISH OR CELT HISTORY. BECAUSE OF THE EMPIRES APPETITES.

HAVING SAID THAT, PROTO SLAVIC PEOPLE WERE NOT UNITED, BUT VERY DIVIDED. SUCH AS MACEDONIANS, ILIRIANS, BELLARIANS (BULGARIANS), GOTHS - KOSSAKS OR RUS PEOPLE, DARDANS, TRAKIANS, ETC...

Slavic people lose territories because of today's religions, and divide. And new nations were born from that.

When Religion will fall, YOU WILL SEE WHO WERE AND WHO ARE THE SLAVS. WHEN RUS AND POLAND WILL BECOME FRIENDS AND ALLIES, THERE WILL BE NO MORE so called WESTERN POWERS.

IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHO ARE REALLY SLAVS, JUST READ VEDAS, the ancient Aria.

VEDAS COMES FROM SLAVIC Word to see VIDI, VIDETI, those Who see, those who posses the knowledge.

Even VISNU Indian god has Slavic name, meaning VISNI, VISEN or SVE VISEN. We say today SVE VISEN BOG, gospod, or SVE VISEN GOD. MEANING Almighty God.

Buda , or Budism, means in my language BUDEN, OR PRO BUDEN, AWAKEN ONE IN LITERAL TRANSLATION. THE SAME NAME OF THE CITY OF BUDIMIR CITY, OR BUDIM PEST TODAY.

Ancient Aria was religion of the previous EPOCH, epoch of the Slavic Race (and Celtic).

I can speak of Persia for 2 hours , but I will tell you the name o Tehran, before Islamic Hordes took in their possession.
IT WAS CALLED RAY, OR SHALL I SAY RAJ. MEANING PARADISE IN SLAVIC LANGUAGE.

If you think that I am saying nonsense , that is OK. But afterward PLEASE read the ORIGINS of the names of the GERMAN CITIES,Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, Rostock.

1 - Alexander the Great was the Greek King of Macedon. What is there to understand Goran!

2 - look here Goran [link to www.historyfiles.co.uk] Look properly and you shall find Amyntas III Hellenic lineage.

3 - I doubt that Goran. Fully skilled...British trained, in the arts of defense.

Macedonians are the Greeks from since the days of King Karanus. [link to www.historyfiles.co.uk] European Kingdoms - Ancient-Greece

1...Thank You Dude!

2...Thank You Anyway. I can take criticism!

The path of least resistance flows through the modern-Greek path. Greeks are the sole legitimate heirs to the Byzantine Eastern-Roman legacy. Through them, the Byzantines, Greeks connect to an older heritage...the Hellenic one.

Macedonians are Dorian-Greek - an ancient - historical -
regional - people-group of ethnic-Greek stock.

[link to www.historyfiles.co.uk] European Kingdoms - Ancient Greece

To have a neighbour next door to you attempt to decorate his house the same as yours - to adorn the walls of his house with the same fixtures and fittings as yours is rather spooky, but it gets too wierd when that neighbour starts to use your name and Identity, and then attempts to have it registered as his.

Two John Smiths could live in peace, side by side next door to each other, but if one John Smith attempts to usurp the Identity of the other one - that is called Identity theft!

The above analogy describes perfectly the situation between FYRoM and Greece!

FYRoM is a newly emergent country that entered onto the world stage in 1991 from the disintegration of the old-Yugoslavia. The way it achieved Independence was unlike the way one would have expected. The transition to Independence was achieved remarkably peacefully. FYRoM made it's debut onto the world stage using the name Republic of Macedonia and then embarked on making it's presence felt in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, a region of the world steeped in Greek history.

Slavists from FYRoM immediately took the opportunity to re-invoke Makedonism - an Ideology based on Slavic expansion, southwards into Greece and then onwards to the Aegean sea.

Makedonists in FYRoM paint and decorate their country in the colours and styles found typically in the Hellenic world. Place-names and street-furniture began to appear in the Hellenic style, with gigantic statues and grand-archways erected in the classicist Hellenic format. The country began to take on the look and feel of a Theme-Park, based on Greco-Macedonian hero figures and Hellenistic architecture.

For Greeks to watch their new neighbour do these things, to promote Greek-culture and take on Greek names was initially very flattering - until they realised that FYRoM was not doing it to laud the Greeks, instead, they were doing it to spite the Greeks, to ridicule and humiliate them.

FYRoM's devotion to Makedonism...an expansionist Ideology, promulgates the seperation of Macedonians from the rest of the Greeks. Greeks now view FYRoM as being hostile towards them. Greeks consider FYRoM's actions hostile and provocative.

When a neighbour paints and decorates his house the same as yours, and then takes on your name, and then adorns the walls with pictures and portaits of your ancestral forbears - and then petitions to register these changes as exclusively his own...what would you do ???

This is the predicament the Greeks face - having FYRoM for a neighbour!

Is Macedonia Hellenic YES or NO ? Well, it entirely depends on which Macedonia one is talking about? If one is talking about the Ancient-Kingdom of Macedon - then the answer is YES! If one is talking about Macedonia II Salutaris - then the answer is NO!

Macedonia-Secunda Salutaris is where FYRoM is situated right Now! FYRoM is situated in an administrative-district the latin-Romans named Macedonia II Salutaris, an add-on to the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, hence the Romans made a distinction - they differentiated the added-on part, the beneficial Salutaris part from the original, Greek, Macedonia-Prima part.

FYRoM is Macedonia-Secunda, it means, the Second-Macedonia! It has nothing to do with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon where Alexander the Great was born, making FYRoM's claims to a Macedonian Identity rooted in classical antiquity absurd, and nonsensical. Macedonians have always been Greek and Greeks have always lived in the ancient-Kingdom of Macedonia...FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are Not one of these!

FYRoM is a New Slavic country in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula which established itself only recently in 1991.

FYRoM strives to build a National-Identity on the basis: The name of their language is called Macedonian and the name of the land on which they reside on is called Republic of Macedonia. FYRoM seeks global recognition as an Independant sovereign state under that Macedonian name but for Greek objections. Greece objects to FYRoM naming itself after an ancient-archaic, Greek-Hellenic, regional-tribal name, on the basis: The first Macedonians were Greek speaking Hellenic peoples integral to the Greek world. Their
name belongs in the Greek domain whilst their Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

Greece strives to protect the Macedonian name from being usurped by NoN-Greek peoples at the National level. If Greece did not object to FYRoM using the Macedonian-name for their New Slavic Country, Nationality, Language and Ethnicity...FYRoM would become a Nation of Slavic speaking Macedonians with perceived rights to the ancient-Macedonian legacy - which Greece is trying to protect in order to keep Greek.

So there we have it: in the most simplistic of terms, FYRoM seeks to build a National-Identity based around the Macedonian name, whilst Greece seeks to protect it's National history - heritage and cultural-inheritence from being usurped by a New Slavic country just recently being established in the Balkans.

For 21 years, South-Slavs Rubbished Greeks history in order they could take the Macedonian-name and Identity for themselves, no matter the cost! The cost has been high for them in terms of damage caused to young Slavic children and FYRoM's reputation abroad.

FYRoM relies on the the twin alters of revisionism and pseudo-history to bolster it's claims to a Macedonian-Identity rooted in classical antiquity - something the country's Slavic heritage is at odds with. FYRoM has used state sponsored propaganda to promote the case for a Proto-Slavic origin for Macedonians - making enemies out of Greece and the international academic community.

Greece, from the beginning has held the moral and academic high ground, on the basis...the International academic community support and endorse the Greek-Hellenic Identity of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. FYRoM disrespects the findings of world academia - a respected International body, citing: Greece has always paid for their support! History like archeology is a science, the two compliment each other and both academic disciplines place the ancient-Macedonians in with the Greek collective of peoples.

Historically speaking, the term Macedonia always referred to a region - an ancient-Kingdom in Northern Greece. Never did it refer to ethnicity or Nationality as FYRoM would have us believe. FYRoM as a newly established Slavic country cannot monopolize the Macedonian-name on the basis of an opportunistic whim...Macedonian-Identity has been associated with Greeks from since antiquity. There are 2.5 Million Greeks inhabiting proper Macedonia, they have fraternal, cultural, linguistic and historic ties to the Macedonian region.

Greek-Macedonians cannot be asked to relinquish their regional-Identity just to appease the whims of FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs. The right to self-determination cannot ride roughshod over the rights of autochthonous natives that have been using the Macedonian-name for self-Identity for Milleniums. Nobody has the right to underestimate our collective Intelligence!

FYRoM abused the right to self-determination the moment it decided to take a Greek-Hellenic name for National-Identity - analysts viewed this action as an opportunistic attempt at taking from the Greeks, elements from their cultural-heritage in order to present them as something NoN-Greek and Slavic.

FYRoM exists, not through the self-determination of its own peoples, who would rather revert back to their Serbian and Bulgarians roots but through the political designs of an ages old doctrine. FYRoM would not exist but for those Slavists who demand it. This alone, explains why FYRoM will always remain an anomaly - a political and economic failure!

The Idea that ancient-Macedonians were not real Greeks, just Hellenized-Slavs was propagated by FYRoM Slavists, not happy with how the Slavic-race was scripted into our common European history books.

The Idea that Macedonians were proto-Slavs that adopted Hellenism, was only ever in the minds of some Slavists wanting to leap-frog the Slavic-race back to a time before the ancient-Greek tribes formed.

In the Slavist mind, Greeks monopolize a huge slice
of ancient history - so they want some of it. They want to script the Slavic-race a history and a history as equal and as Illustrious as the Greek one.

Slavists scripted FYRoM a history and a heritage so crude and so crass it got rejected by the international academic community who classified it as revisionism - pseudo-history, fit only for the trash-bin.

FYRoM's pseudo-historians took something good like the classics and converted them into something Vulgar! They made the ancient-Macedonians proto-Slavs and taught their children - pupils - students to think of themselves that way. Greeks live next to South-Slavs who think they are connected more to the Macedonians of lore than the Greeks.

How bright does one need to be to dismiss out of hand - the Idea that Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity were Slavic speakers from FYRoM. How much Intellectually endowed does one have to get, to figure out that FYRoM's claims to a Macedonian Identity are completely bogus, unfounded without basis and without foundation. How smart does one have to be, to figure out Alexander the Great was the Greek king of Macedon - a cursory look at any one of the many On-line Encyclopaedias, reveal that simple historical fact. How knowledgeable does one have to be, to figure out that FYRoM's claim to a Macedonian-Identity is misguided, completely erroneous, not rooted in historical verity. How learned does one have to get, to fathom out that a nation of Macedonians outside of Hellenism has never ever existed in historical verity. How much Intelligence does one need, to connect Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity to Greek speaking Hellenic peoples. At what stage during the educational process does it become common-knowledge - linking Macedonians with Hellenism. How much education does one need to attain a level of knowledge considered adequate, to connect ancient-Macedonians with the rest of the Greeks. How much Information do FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs need before it dawns on them that Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-people. How much schooling does one need, to link FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs with Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs. At what level of enlightenment does one need to reach, to figure out that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are or told they are!

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples. Only hardened propagandists or severely brainwashed Individuals equate Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity with Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs from FYRoM.

How Silly can FYRoM get, trying to persuade an educated world - Macedonians were proto-Slavs! How Silly of FYRoM, trying to convince the International community, the Macedonians of lore were Slavic speakers. Lest we forget, the Macedonian-name was born under Hellenic skys - spawned from Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.

These are crimes - Identity theft and cultural thievery, ethical and moral crimes. This is what FYRoM does when it takes from Greeks, elements from their cultural-heritage.

FYRoM's Slavs figure...If the country is called Macedonia, Macedonian-Nationality follows - by default, and if the language is called Macedonian, then Macedonian-Ethnicity follows - by default! With a configuration like this:

1 - Country = Macedonia
2 - Nationality = Macedonian
3 - Language = Macedonian
4 - Ethnicity = Macedonian

FYRoM plans on taking the Macedonian-name away from the Greeks...but for Greek Objections!

FYRoM's Slavic-speaking peoples may have been Greek-speakers before Slavication...that makes them partially-Greek - Slavs from Greek heritage. But this does not give them priority or superior rights to the Macedonian-name - it does not even place them on an equilibrium with Greeks, on the basis, Macedonians stayed loyal to Hellenism.

Macedonians have always been Greek speaking Hellenic peoples...Only Greeks have legitimate connections to Alexander the Greats legacy. Only Greeks can boast to be the cultural-custodians of the ancient-Macedonian legacy.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are, told they are, or want to be - on the basis, their Slavic-heritage distances them from that ambition. FYRoM's response to that observation is to simply deny that they are Slavs. But if they are not Slavs, then what are they...and why do the Slavic countries include them into their collective - Slavdom.

If what they say is true, that they are not Slavic - just Slavicized, then what were they before Slavicization. What language did they speak before they adopted the Slavonic-language and when did all this happen.

If FYRoM is not a Slavic-country, then the peoples their have a right to know the truth about themselves - about their ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic backround.

If it turns-out that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are just Slavicized Macedonian-Greeks - then they should take steps to make that news public. And when that information has become common-knowledge...the political leadership there should take these next steps shortly afterwards:

1 - Unilaterally release FYRoM from the Shackles of Slavdom.

2 - Proclaim the country a Hellenic outpost.

3 - Tell the world - FYRoM is inhabited by Slavic-speakers from Greek-Hellenic heritage.

4 - Agitate for Union with Hellas with special dispensation for quasi-autonomous rights.

5 - Macedonia is at peace - under Hellenic skys.

6 - Greek-speaking Macedonians welcome their Slavic-speaking brothers and sisters with open arms!

7 - Macedonia for the Macedonians. Happy days!

Some things cannot be changed: (i) The demographic composition of the Greek [Haemus] peninsula, (ii) The demographic history of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, (iii) The Ethnic-Racial - Cultural-Linguistic Identity of the Macedonians...both past and present.

Macedonians are the Greeks from since the days of King Karanus 808 - 778 BC. Some things cannot change. Some things were never to be changed.

Dorians by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus, the main Identity-factor applicable to the Macedonians of lore was the Hellenic one. The Slavic-peoples of FYRoM must be encouraged to learn that the ancient-Macedonians did belong to term Hellenic, in all of it's meanings, and that no other Identity-term can be applicable them - not the Illyrian one, and certainly not the Thracian one, on the basis: Macedonians are the Greeks that Hellenized the Thracian-tribes. The Epirot-Illyrian origins of his mother were as Hellenic on an equilibrium of his fathers side.

It must be stressed...The Macedonians of lore did belong to the Hellenic world and culture - to assign them a different Identity would be a travesty of what was writen about them in the mainstream historical narrative.

De-Hellenizing the Macedonians of lore and distancing modern-Greeks from them is what FYRoM does in it's learning institutions. Schools colleges and universities in that country are forbidden to use the Hellenic-term directly next to the Macedonian one...the two are kept seperate so that the children, pupils and students there do not make the connection between Macedonians and Hellenism.

FYRoM has used the country's state-apparatus to control what can and cannot be taught there. FYRoM has used state-sponsored propaganda directly, in it's classrooms and learning-institutions to promulgate the Idea that the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions reveal the long-lost language of the ancient-Macedonians before they adopted koine, the lingua-franca as they call it. For the rest of the learned-world - the Rosetta stone middle text inscriptions were demotic Egyptian, but in FYRoM, they were coerced to learn something different.

The Macedonians of lore were as Hellenic as the Spartans of lore - Dorians to the core...Greeks by origin and by blood, by speech and by genus.

Should FYRoM be granted permission to rubbish this...and if they try - should the Greeks let them!

In reality FYRoM is not Macedonia. It has no historical connections with the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon, since the geographical area there, was known as Paeonia in antiquity. The Slavs of FYRoM never used the Macedonian-name for self-Identity until after 1945, when Tito, the Croatian dictator of Yugoslavia converted a province into a republic.

The Vardar-region of South-Serbia was renamed "Peoples Republic of Macedonia" changing to "Socialist Republic of Macedonia" a year later, in 1946. The political-regime in FYRoM use state-sponsored historical-propaganda to promote Slavist revisionism and pseudo-history.

State learning Institutions advance an ethno-genesis story which connects FYRoM's Slavic ancestors to the native Indigenous Macedonians, and through that mix - ex-Yugoslavs inherit the legacy of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon at the expense and exclusion of the Greeks.

FYRoM's ethno-genesys story is far too crude to be taken seriously, since the Macedonians of lore also mixed with the peoples of the Levant, and with Egyptians - Syrians - Persians - Sogdanians - Afghans - Hindus and many more besides...and that mixing was carried out much earlier, at an earlier epoch than the times of the Slavic incursions of Byzantium and the Greco-Roman world.

Evidently...FYRoM underestimated the worlds collective-Intelligence on matters Macedonian. FYRoM was never called "Macedonia" before WWII. This name was attributed to the Southernmost Yugoslavian province by the Croatian General Tito. On his will only, did the "Peoples Republic of Macedonia" come into existence. Before WWII - FYRoM was simply called Vardarska Banovina.

[link to www.myfightformacedonia.com] This is not a Macedonian - this is a South-Slav wanting to usurp a Greek-Hellenic name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes.

[link to ancient-macedonia.jimdo.com] This is not Linguistic Analysis - this is linguistic-Propaganda coupled with shameless revisionism and pseudo-history - the foodstuffs and the nourishment on which FYRoM sustains itself.

great stuff Nick, Hellas 4 Life. My mother is from Thessaloniki. Very beautiful there.

Last Edited by <%)oM34PrIm|(%>< on 12/24/2012 10:58 AM

Only in the minds of some sick and twisted South-Slavic peoples from FYRoM - do they equate Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity with the Slavic-race.

Just because a bunch of wandering nomadic steppe peoples decided to make-camp on Imperial-Byzantine territories - FYRoM's Slavic ancestors pitched their tents, pissed on the grass and then called it home. This point must be stressed...they did not call their home Macedonia or themselves Macedonians at this time - this term they did not learn, or use, at the 6th Century AD. This was the time when the Slavic-tribes were recorded as having settled large swathes of Greco-Roman Byzantine territories. In fact, FYRoM's Slavic ancestors were still using their tribal names - names that were affilliated either to the Bulgar settlements or to the Serbian settlements.

The first time in recorded-history where South-Slavic peoples were noted for using the Macedonian-name - outise of it's regional-geographic conotations were in 1944 - 1945 - 1946 respectively.

1944 - was the year when Slavist philologists Serbianized FYRoM's Bulgarian-language and named it Macedonian-language - because it had 5 Serbian letters seeded into their Old-Church Bulgarian Cyrillic Alphabet, they named it Macedonian-language. The reasons for doing this become clear just one year later!

1945 - was the year when a Croatian, going by the name of Jozep Broz Tito, sanctioned the conversion of a South-Serbian province into a fully fledged republic - The Peoples Republic of Macedonia.

1946 - was the year when the same dicatator Tito, renamed his creation yet again - to The Socialist Republic of Macedonia.

The right of self-Identity and of self-determination are rights enshrined into the United Nations charter of human rights - but attributing FYRoM with an ancient and archiac - regional-tribal - Greek-Hellenic name is an insult to Greece and Greeks, not least, it puts to the test, the worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian.

In reality FYRoM Abused those rights - Slavists there found an opportunity and took a chance on naming themselves Macedonians - in the ethnic and racial sense and in the cultural-linguistic sense, that is why they fight to have their new Slavic country recognized as Macedonia, they fight hard to have their Nationality recognized as Macedonian, their language and ethnicity also.

How smart do human-rights activists have to be - to figure-out that Greece has recognized historic rights over the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon. How clever do politicians have to be - to figure-out that by naming FYRoM to Republic of Macedonia, it would clash and conflict with academia and what is known about Macedonia in the mainstream historical narrative. How clever does a diplomat have to be - to figure-out that FYRoM is testing the West, playing around with it's new-found freedoms and rights - rights we take for granted in the West.

In reality, those global-politicians and world-diplomats initially supported the FYRoM cause, but now they hang their heads in shame at having to face Greece and Greeks. When Greece was telling our Western-Partners and European-Cousins that FYRoM is more Interested in propaganda which bad-mouths Greeks and character-assassinates the modern-Greek National-character...Greek concerns were not taken seriously!

Greeks realize that on the back of the name dispute
with FYRoM...every Greek-hating Man and his Dog went for the Greek Jugular. Greeks had their National-character assasinated - good and proper.

That Greeks witnessed their Country and themselves being thoroughly humiliated in symphony and in concerted effort was been duly noted. We now know from where they started and how they dispursed, and the Media concerns that made them front-page news.

Only in the minds of some sick and twisted Individuals from FYRoM and elsewhere - do they equate South-Slavs with Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. There is not one global-politician or world-diplomat that wiilingly admits to supporting the FYRoM cause anymore - the FYRoM cause died the day historian-scholars of the classics threw the gauntlet down in challenge to any of them that dispute the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity.

The two main people-groups of FYRoM are the Albanians and the Slavs...the latter form the majority. The Albanians there, see themselves like aboriginal-peoples of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula, they do not consider themselves to be Macedonians. The Slavs - although descendants of 6th Century AD invader-settlers see themselves like Macedonians, they want recognition to go by this label even though it is known, they hail from Serbian and Bulgarian stock. It is also known that Macedonians are a Greek-speaking peoples of Hellenic-stock. The Slavic-speakers of FYRoM wanting to call themselves Macedonians causes confusion, since Macedonians have always been a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveals - the greater geographical area known today as Macedonia, accomodates three major people-groups: (i) Greeks, (ii) Slavs and (iii) Albanians. There is no historical justification for the Slavic people-group to monopolize the name, since the term denotes regional-geographic Identity, not ethnic-Identity and certainly not National-Identity.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveals - the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon to have been a Greek-Kingdom peopled by Northern-Greeks. Macedonians existed for thousands of years as a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples before the arrival of any Slavic speaking people-group. The Slavs showed-up in that area in the 6th Century AD, long after it had been Christianized and long after the Roman conquest of Greece. By calling themselves Macedonians, the Slavs of FYRoM covet an Identity that is foreign to their ethnic-racial people-group.

The worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian reveal - the inhabitants of Macedonia were Christianized by Saint-Paul himself who spoke to them in their own Macedonian(Hellenic) language, not in the hybrid mixed Serbo-Bulgarian language that is spoken in FYRoM. The Slavs were Christianized by two Greek monks Cyril and Methodius almost a Millennium after the original Greco-Macedonians, in a language called old-Bulgarian or old-Church Slavonic.

Evidently - FYRoM underestimated the worlds collective Intelligence on matters Macedonian...that is why they are kept at arms length, at a distance, until the people there learn the truth about Macedonians and about themselves.

Smart people know the Slavs of FYRoM to be disenfranchised Serbians and Bulgarians that have been sufficiently seperated from the main Serbo-Bulgarian core who are now in transition to forming a new Identity - they want that new Identity to carry the Macedonian label but for Greek objections!

Smart people know the Macedonians to be a Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples from since the times of King Karanus, therefore FYRoM's new Identity cannot possibly carry this name for country, nationality, language or ethnicity.

Smart people know that FYRoM's Macedonian-Identity was engineered by a Croatian-Slav going by the name of General Josep Broz Tito when in 1944 he ordered Communist Slavist-philologists from the old-Yugoslavia to seed FYRoM's old (Bulgarian) language with 5 Serbian letters...the Idea was to create a new South-Slavic language they mischievously re-named Macedonian-language. It must be stressed here, there was No Macedonian-Language anywhere in the Slavic world before 1944 - it came to exist solely on the will of the Slavists that demanded it.

Smart people know that ethnicity usually follows the language name - Macedonian-language generates Macedonian-ethnicity by default.

Smart people know that nationality usually follows country name - a country named Macedonia generates Macedonian-Nationality by default.

The Croatian dictator of the old-Yugoslavia knew what he was doing when he created a Macedonian-language for the Slavs of FYRoM - he knew what he was doing when he created the Peoples Republic of Macedonia also. From two Identity factors you get two more for free...Country-Name begets Nationality and Language-Name begets Ethnicity.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs were ethnically-engineered and linguistically-manipulated to accept an Identity that was socially constructed for them solely on the will of the Slavists that demanded it.

Greeks are not to blame for FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs developing ethnic-pride and national-feelings which are foreign to their race and respective people-groups. Smart people know that the Slavs of FYRoM hail from Serbian and Bulgarian stock and cannot possibly harbour collective-memories for Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

[link to en.wikipedia.org] Smart people know that the ancient lands of Paeonia is where FYRoM is situated right now - this place was Hellenized by the Macedonians almost 5 generations after the death of Alexander the Great. In fact, Paeonia was conquered in 217 BC under King Philip V, 106 years after the death of Alexander the Great. Any map that incorporates Paeonia into the Kingdom of Macedon before 217 BC is historically incorrect.

[link to www.eupedia.com] If the native peoples of FYRoM are found carrying the autochthonous genes which are typically found in the Greek [Haemus] peninsula - high frequencies of haplogroups E1b1b and J2, then this finding would make them descendents of Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be.

Smart people know - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are not the Macedonians they think they are - told they are - or want to be!

Smart people know - Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.

In the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, the paleolithic - neolithic genetic footprint has been mapped. The peoples inhabiting the southern-part of the peninsula today slot into a genetic-signature which correlates to the Greek colonization of anitquity. Although many exogenous peoples settled or just passed through the region, their admixture has been absorbed into the more resiliant autochthonous gene pool.

In the Greek [Haemus] peninsula, the native autochthonous genes dominate, but that does not make the peoples there the same peoples - they differ on cultural and linguistic level, be it genetically they are similar and the same stock.

So what do genes and haplogroups define exactly - is it blood, race, ethnicity ?

I have always said: The genes modern-humans carry today may not reflect faithfully, their current ethnic-pride and current national-feelings - example is found in modern Britain.

Modern-humans residing in the British Isles are found carrying native Keltic ((Scots)(Irish)(Welsh)) genes but they attest to harbouring English ethnic-pride and National-feelings for England - expand this phenomenon to 4th generation assimilated Commonwealth citizens and you have the makings of philosophical question:

Question - What is it that makes you English ?

expanded

Question - What makes you who you are today in terms of how you self-Identify and how you self determine your ethnicity - nationality status.

It has been proven - Blood and Dna do not correlate to ethnicity. Ethnic-pride is something that is passed-on from one generation to the next - taught within the confines of ones paternal-maternal family to feel proud of ancestral achievements. Ethnic-pride can also be taught in local learning Institutions...good (knowledge based) schools or in bad (propagandist) ones.

When the ancient-Greeks Hellenized NoN-Greek populations - those populations Hellenized willingly and voluntarily adopting the Hellenic culture through choice. One can assimilate into a culture their genes and haplogroups were strangers to.

I return back to my original thesis: The genes modern peoples carry today may not reflect faithfully ones current ethnic-pride and national-feelings - examples are found all around us!

Peoples can be taught - in good knowledge based schools, or in bad propagandist ones, to harbour and hold dear, collective-memories, ethnic-pride, national-feelings...the best example of this phenomenon is FYRoM.

(link to en.wikipedia.org ) The ancient lands of Paeonia is where FYRoM is situated right now - this place was Hellenized by the Macedonians almost 5 generations after the death of Alexander the Great. In fact, Paeonia was conquered in 217 BC under King Philip V, 106 years after the death of Alexander the Great. Any map that incorporates Paeonia into the Kingdom of Macedon before 217 BC is historically incorrect. FYRoM reject their Paeonian ancestral base for a Macedonian one on the basis, they have learned to harbour collective-memories - ethnic-pride and national-feelings for Macedonian things.

If the peoples of FYRoM are autochthonous original Haemus peninsula natives, having never shifted from where they today - that would make them Paeonians and not the Macedonians they want to be.

Paeonians like the rest of the Haemus natives, sprang from a common gene pool. The ancient-peoples of the Greek [Haemus] peninsula shared similar genes and haplogroups but differed on cultural-linguistic lines until Hellenization.

FYRoM is Paeonia - a Haemus people. Hellenized - Romanized - Bulgarized - Slavicized - Turkified - and now, searching for Identity. The options are many but the choice is limited.