Alexander the Great : Greek or SouthSlav

A large body of Slavic public opinion - from the Czech lands to the Sabir lands of Russia, and from the Po'lands to the Ukraine, and from the lands of the Slovenes to the lands of the Serbs and Bulgars, Slavs everywhere are asking the question: Should they eject FYRoM from the shackles of Slavdom ?

A cursory look in the Slavic forums, one can read the comments relating to FYRoM's rejection of the country's Slavic heritage and Identity. Revisionist pseudo-historians scripted them an ethno-genesis origin which makes the peoples there Macedonians in the first instance and partial-Slavs in the second.

The FYRoM - Greece name dispute issue has much to do with the way the mind-architects of FYRoM manipulate the institutions of state there to propagandize history - intentionally misquoting and misinterpreting historical texts to distance the ancient-Macedonians from their Hellenic ancestral base.

By seperating the Macedonians of old from the rest of the Greeks, the revisionist history-books in FYRoM tell an immoral and unethical story - that Macedonians were not Greeks but their own ethnos, a seperate peoples from Hellenes, more akin to the Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM than to the modern-Greeks of Hellas.

The Slavs get annoyed at FYRoM for depicting the Slavic label as being something of a racial slur for them - Slavdom gets disturbed with FYRoM for bringing the Slavic race down to partial status for their Identity...the Slavs get irritated at FYRoM for making Slavic history in the Balkans such controversial and contestable issue. Slavs are annoyed with FYRoM for bringing Slavdom into disrepute with Hellenism upsetting Greco-Slavic relations in the process.

If the FYRoM position is that of being shackled into Slavdom reluctantly...then maybe the Slavs and Slavdom should release FYRoM from those shackles, and allow the peoples there the freedom to chose the future development direction of their Identity.

Slavdom should encourage FYRoM to chose between going full-on Slavic or going full-on Hellenic - there is no middle ground here. If FYRoM opts for a Hellenic history and heritage, then Slavdom should release them from their fold to allow them to explore more, their Hellenic roots and ethno-origins.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs speak a language that did not exist in antiquity. The so called Macedonian-language they speak is actually Serbo-Bulgarian renamed Macedonian. If the Slavic speakers of FYRoM speak a language that did not exist in ancient-Macedonia then by definition, it is not Macedonian.

Prior to the Roman conquest of Greece, the inhabitants of Macedonia spoke the Hellenic-language in Koine - common Attic-Greek dialect [link to en.wikipedia.org]
The ancient-Macedonians were irrefutably Greek. They spoke Greek, believed in the Pantheon of Greek Gods and proclaimed themselves proud Hellenes on record.

With the coming of the latin-Romans, the Greek (Haemus) peninsula Romanized [link to en.wikipedia.org] The Greek - Latin divide running across the northern border of FYRoM. At 4th Century AD...before the Avaro-Hunnic - Bulgaro-Slavic incursions of the Greco-Roman world, FYRoM was a Greek speaking place.

Hard evidence in the archaeological field reveals latin influences - inscriptions and historical data for example, north of the Jirecek line...meaning north of FYRoM.

The Slavic-language now spoken in FYRoM was introduced into the peninsula after the 4th Century AD. In-fact, it came to the region during the settlement of the Slavic tribes from the top-end of the 6th Century AD onwards.

If FYRoM was a Greek speaking place - resisting, opposing Romanization up to the 4th Century AD, then one could conclude that the Slavicization process of the inhabitants there must have been more brutal and more excruciating than the Roman practices of assimilation.

Evidently...the population of FYRoM was Greek speaking, attested to up till the 4th Century AD...the peoples there were inhabitants of Byzantium, the Imperial Eastern-Roman Empire. Slavicization occured much later, from the 6th Century onwards when the Slavs settled the region in great numbers.

To conclude: FYRoM was a place where the Greek language was spoken...even after the Roman conquest of the Greek (Haemus) peninsula. The peoples there resisted Romanization but could not resist Slavicization. From the 6th Century onwards the peoples succumbed to acculturation - swamped by the numbers and the assimilatory practices of the new Slavic settlers.

Macedonians have always been a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples from since the times of King Karanus [808 - 788 BC]
Alexander the Great continued that tradition...he exported Greek knowledge, culture and language to the farthest reaches of the then known ancient world.

The Hellenic language has been spoken in the same place from whence it originated for Millenniums. The Greek [Haemus] peninsula is the primordial homelands of the Greek-Hellenic peoples, the place which spawned Hellenism in the first place.

The latin language challenged the supremecy of the Greek language in the peninsula with the coming of the Romans, from since 146 BC. The Slavic languages challenged the dominance of the Greek language in a peninsula that had already been linguistically delineated between Latin, north of the Jireck line, and Greek, south of it. The Slavic tribes are on record for settling the peninsula from since the 6th Century AD onwards.

FYRoM, the place...used to be a Greek speaking place. We know that to be true from the archaelogical evidence. The Greek language was spoken in FYRoM evidently, up to the 4th Century AD. In-fact, FYRoM used to be a Greek speaking place up to the coming of the Slavs - from since the 6th Century AD.

The Greek speaking inhabitants of FYRoM succumbed to acculturation. If it is true, that FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are native indigenous peoples to the Greek [Haemus] peninsula, this, if proven, would have made their ancestral forebears Greco-Romans - Greek speaking Romioi inhabitants of Byzantium, the Eastern-Roman Empire.

The reason FYRoM became a Slavic speaking place, is
due to acculturation and the assimilatory practices of the more numerous Slavic milieu in which their Greek speaking ancestral forebears found themselves.

FYRoM's Slavists made an ancient-Greek regional Identity Slavic. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs describe themselves as ethnic-Macedonians, but by doing that, they connect the Slavic race to the ancient-peoples who lived there before the Slavic tribes even set-foot in the Greek (Haemus) peninsula.
FYRoM's revisionist pseudo-historians re-interpret ancient-Greek history as their history and annoy Greeks in the process.

FYRoM's parent-ethnicity is actually Slavic not Macedonian. When the peoples there self-describe as ethnic-Macedonians, they are taking something away from the Greeks...something primordial and unique to the Hellenic race. Why the Slavs of FYRoM even bother to connect themselves to ancient-Macedonians baffles other Slavs, on the basis, the ancient-Slavic peoples had absolutely nothing in common with ancient-Macedonians, in-fact, they were spaced far apart geographically and seperated by a time continuum spanning almost a Millennium.

Slavs met Greeks when Alexander the Great had been dead and buried for nigh-on one-thousand years. Greeks met Slavs when the Slavic tribes settled the Greco-Roman world sometime around the top-end of the 6th Century AD. Slavs met Greeks when Greeks self-Identified Romioi and self-determined as Imperium-Romanum Romania, the official name for the Eastern-Roman Empire, later refered to as Byzantium. FYRoM's Slavic ancestors met Greeks when they were Greco-Romans...not ancient-Macedonians.

FYRoM's Slavic heritage in the Greek (Haemus) peninsula has a starting point - 6th Century AD. The Slavic speaking peoples of FYRoM cannot usurp the history and heritage of the regions previous owners...the Greek speaking Romioi, the Greco-Roman citizens of Imperium-Romanum Romania. The history of that territory belongs to the peoples that were there before the Slavs.

Slavs cross-fertilizing with (Romioi) Greeks makes them partially-Greek. Greeks cross fertilizing with Slavs makes them partially-Slavic...the probability of these combinations existing is high - on both sides of the divide.
Slavs claiming Greek history and heritage, do so from a partial-Greek perspective - Greeks claiming Slavic history and heritage, do so from a partial-Slavic perspective...no need to expand further here, the examples employed are self-explanatory.

The peoples of FYRoM in the main, are Slavs - by language, by culture, by customs and by tradition but they reject these Identity factors by inadvertently claiming Macedonian-Identity. FYRoM's Slavic heritage does not connect to Macedonia before 6th Century AD.

FYRoM underestimated the worlds collective intelligence on matters Macedonian the day it was announced they were Macedonian-speaking, ethnic-Macedonians from Macedonia...the
modern descendents of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. Through-out the Slavic world scholars were astounded to learn that a member of their collective could make such embarrassing statements in their name.

Slavdom in general rejects FYRoM's erroneous claim to having ancestral connections to the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity - learned people know that FYRoM's Slavic ancestors settled the extended Roman region of Macedonia during the top-end of the 6th Century AD, when the Greeks were Romioi Byzantines...not ancient-Macedonians.

FYRoM alienated the Hellenic world first with their pseudo-historical indulgence, and now threaten to alienate the Slavic world against them also. Slavic historians know, Slavs do not connect to Macedonia before the 6th Century AD, and if there are some people in FYRoM that can boast to having Greek connections - they do so from a partial-Greek perspective!

FYRoM's mind-architects took their pseudo-historical propaganda to the brink, to the point where the few Western sponsors, backers and supporters they had on-side, had to abandon the cause. Nobody signed-up to have a newly emergent
country indulge in pseudo-history when world-academia attribute Macedonian ancient history to the Greeks and Hellenism - not to Slavs and Slavdom.

FYRoM's mind-architects turned the Slavic world against them also, to the point where Slavdom is threatening to have them ejected from their collective - first, for using the Slavic name in vain and second, for rejecting their own Slavic heritage.

FYRoM has become an embarrassment to those Western interests
that backed them in the first place, and to Slavdom that has no choice but to listen to FYRoM's pseudo-historical nonsense embarrass the Slavic race.

The quickest way to find out about Macedonians, like who they are, where they come from, and to which ethno-linguistic people-group they afffiliate to, is to consult an on-line encyclopaedia...there are many to chose from. All of them state quite clearly that Macedonians were a Greek-speaking Hellenic people-group in ancient-times. They were made famous during the reign of Alexander the Great when his kingdom succeeded in doing what no other Hellenic people-group could do, and that was to unite the fractious Greeks into one unified Nation of Hellenes - under Macedonian hegemony.

Today, the Greeks are having their history and heritage contested by a Slavic-Macedonia that came into existence relatively recently when it emerged from the disintegration of the old-Yugoslavia and proclaim itself, the Republic of Macedonia. From since 1991, this small Slavic statelet has been telling the world that Macedonians have always been Macedonians - that they are the real Macedonians not the Greeks.

Because the peoples of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia self-Identify as Macedonians, and because they have right to self-determine their state as Republic of Macedonia, and because they speak Macedonian...this criteria ticks all the boxes for them to usurp the history and the heritage of the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon - their namesake!

That country-name and language-name generate Nationality-name and Ethnicity-name - respectively and retrospectively is known about at the legal technical level, and on this basis, and this configuration, FYRoM becomes Macedonia on a technicality, by virtue of the fact that Slavists renamed them that way, renamed their land that way, and renamed their language that way...renders South-Slavs Macedonians riles the Greeks!

To think that at the inception stage, FYRoM had the support of the Hellenic Republics Western-partners and European cousins was a political blunder of monumental proportions, and a travesty of the mainstream historical narrative - the one that stipulates in all of the academic worlds reputable encyclopaedias: Macedonians have been a Greek-speaking Hellenic people-group from since the time of King Karanus 808 - 778 BC.

Greeces Western-partners and European-cousins ditched FYRoM the day the sholarly academic world challenged political expediancy...historian scholars of the classics put politicians in their place - now, FYRoM is shunted up a siding, kept at arms length, at a distance from Europe and those Western economic and security structures it always said it wanted to join but never really took the right steps to fulfil those aspirations.

Modern nations and their respective national-histories, in general, do not clash or conflict with the mainstream historical narrative the way FYRoM's national-history does.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs do not connect to the famous Macedonian-Greeks from antiquity - they might however, connect to the medievil-Greeks from Byzantium...but that has yet to be explored in a serious way!

The ancient-Macedonian connection was a red herring from the start, a pseudo-historical indulgence catering to the whims of some Slavists...on their will only, did FYRoM become the land of Slavic-speaking Macedonians boasting connections to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Whilst FYRoM's mind-architects were rewriting the ancient history Europe to include Slavic tribes...scripted under the Macedonian term rather than the Slavic one - Slavdoms scholars of the classics were rejecting the use of historical revisionism to connect the Slavic race to the ancient peoples of the Hellenic world.

Slavists in the diaspora - particularly in Canada, in Australia and to a lesser degree in the USA, worked together in tandem pooling their wealth and other resources to character-assassinate the Greeks, to badmouth the Hellenic Republic and to belittle the accomplishments of Hellenisms contributions to world history. Some of them Greek citizens from Slavic heritage, some of them Slavs from Balkan heritage, all of them settled these Western countries after departing from their birth-places of origin...most are on their 4th generation now, most still bear grudges against Greece and the West, who they blame for displacing them in the first place.

The historical debate FYRoM was always destined to lose, on the basis, history cannot be rewritten to suite the whims of some Slavists. First it was Western scholars that rejected FYRoM's pseudo-historical, anti-Hellenic propaganda - now, it's scholars from the Slavic world.

FYRoM's national history clashes and conflicts with the long established mainstream historical narrative at so many levels, the country is being shunned internationally, ignored, kept at arms length, at a distance, until the historians there script the country a history that properly reflects the peoples Slavic heritage.

If something of the ancient-Macedonians still lives on...it lives on where ? in FYRoM ? - If it lives on in FYRoM, then surely, it must live on in Egypt, and in Afghanistan, and in all those places where the ancient-Macedonians dwelt.

FYRoM's claims to having ancestral connections with Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity are no more reliable and no more weighted in their favour than say, Egyptian claims, or Afghanistani claims...or the claims of the Kalash and the Hunza.

If something of the ancient-Macedonians still lives on...it lives on in Macedonia - in the real Macedonia, the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon located entirely within the borders of Northern-Greece.

If something of the ancient-Macedonians still lives on...it lives on in the Greeks. The path of least resistance flows through the Greek path. Only Greeks connect to the Macedonians of lore in the ways that matter.

When Marshall Josep Broz Tito, the Croatian dictator of WWII Yugoslavia, converted a South-Serbian province into a republic, the Greeks complained he used a Greek name to do that. Tito used the Macedonian-name to rename Vardaska Banovina to Peoples Republic of Macedonia. The Greeks complained, but not loud enough...a good move on behalf of the Greeks, for reasons that shall be explained later.

When it was realized, that Communist Slavists were making preperations for the development of a brand-new 6th autonomous Republic, to compliment the 5 that already existed there in the old-Yugoslavia...Greeks complained but were powerless to intervene, Hellas was a country in ruins after five long years of warring with Germany Italy and Bulgaria.

When Slavist philologists decided to bring into existence, a brand-new South-Slavic language, they achieved that aim in 1944, and when those same Slavists decided to bring into existence a brand-new peoples republic, they achieved that as well, just one year later in 1945. They named their new language to Macedonian-language, and they named their new republic to The Peoples Republic of Macedonia. The Greeks did complain at these anti-Hellenic hostile actions...but not loud enough!

Yugoslavia - the land of the South-Slavs, the place went from accomodating Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia-Hertzegovina, to finding accomodation for the now Socialist Republic of Macedonia. With the Introduction of Macedonia, the 6th and newest member of the now ethnically organized Yugoslavia, initiated the requirement for nation building structures to be developed there, and so it began, (i) social-engineering, (ii) ethnic-manipulations, (iii) Indoctrination...all of these brainwashing tools were used in WWII Yugoslavia to make Macedonians out of South-Slavs.
Greece viewed these Slavist orientated events as hostile actions, anti-Hellenic actions, designed to take Macedonia away from Hellas. Greek complaints were registered and acknowledged at the highest echelons of diplomatic office,
see here:

U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)
The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*
The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.
The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian Forces" against Greece.

The Department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.

Secretary of State
STETTINIUS

After WWII, Greece entered straight into another War - the Greek Civil War, 1945-1949. Communist-Slavs neighbouring Greece, aided Greek-Communists in a pact to tear Macedonia away from Greece and place it into Slavic hands. More Greeks died in that War than in WWII. Greece fought hard to keep Macedonia Greek and achieved that aim but at huge cost in Greek lives...the country ruined and taken back into the stone-age - this picture is scratched into the collective memory of all Greeks, a latent image serving as reminder, helping Greeks to remember what those Communist-Slavs did to the Greeks over Macedonia.

The STETTINIUS letter also servs to remind us how easy it was for the American Bush administration to dump on previous administrations political positions.

As for the Greeks not being loud enough in their complaints - actually they were loud enough to have their concerns recorded in the STETTINIUS letter, but not loud enough to have action taken against Tito and Yugoslavia for creating a Macedonian-language and a Socialist Macedonian Nation peopled by South-Slavs.

The American view on Macedonia during WWII era...

"This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

Very strong political statement from the US State department, with secretary of State STETTINIUS using very clear and very precise words to describe an intention on behalf of the Communist Yugoslav administration to create a Macedonian Nation peopled by NoN-Greeks.

From such strong views in 1944, to views swaying completely the other way round in 2004. The American view on Macedonia altered during the GW Bush administration, swaying 180 degrees out of phase with the original WWII American position.

The U.S. recognition of FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia was a political blunder of mega proportions - a decision recognized for being based on poor, substandard, Ill thought-out advice.

Based on that poor - substandard and Ill thought-out advice,
that American decision to recognize FYRoM as RoM prompted other countries to do the same by following Americas lead.

Analysts point to that US decision as being the singlemost decision responsible for slowing down the EU Integration of the Balkans.

Macedonians form the Northern branch of the now famous Dorians from antiquity. Dorians were the Spartans from Southern-Greece and the Macedonians from Northern-Greece. Both branches affiliated to a much larger ethnic-group that self-determined as Hellenes. Dorians formed just one part of a peoples-collective that were known as Greeks (Graecos) in the West, and Yunans (Ionians) in the East. On home turf they self-Identified regionally in the first instance and Hellenes in the second...after their parent-ethnicity.
There are more than 230 known, ancient-Greek groups, tribes and Kingdoms recognized that way by historian scholars of the classics - each people-group self-Identified by their regional-tribal name in the first instance followed by Hellene in the second, in order to complete their self-determination. For example:

1...A Macedonian to a Corinthian was a Macedonian, but to a foreigner, Persian for instance...he was a Hellene - from Macedonia.

2...A Spartan to an Athenian was a Spartan, but to a foreigner, Egyptian for instance...he was a Hellene - from Sparta.

The Greek way for self-Identification and for self-determination follows these simple rules: Regional-Tribal Identity in the first instance, followed by Parent-Ethnicity in the second.

Greeks are not known for sharing - Greeks do not want to share one of their ancient-archaic, regional-tribal names with foreign peoples from NoN-Greek stock...like in the case of FYRoM - a newly established Slavic country peopled by Slavic speakers wanting to use the Macedonian-name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes in the ethnic-racial sense, and cultural-linguistic sense, when these Identity factors do not bode well with Slavs.

FYRoM's claim to the Macedonian-name in any sense other than within it's regional-geographic connotation, is an unjustified claim on Greek cultural and historical heritage. This is unprecedented, there has never been a situation like this before in the history of Mankind, where one ethnic-racial group seeks to usurp the name of a different ethnic-racial group for self-Identification and for self-determination purposes. According to the rules of logic - two racially different people-groups cannot use the same name to define themselves ethnically and racially, culturally and linguisticall - one of them must be lying about their roots and ethno-origins.

Greeks do not consider the inhabitants or FYRoM to be bona-fide Macedonians, neither do historian scholars of the classics, not even the demographers of the Haemus (Balkan) peninsula consider them to be a unique ethnic-racial people-group in their own right. Everybody sees FYRoM's inhabitants being disenfranchised Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs that have been left alone to wallow in their own nostalgia.

Nobody has the right to underestimate the worlds collective intelligence on matters Macedonian - For FYRoM to have the front, the bottle and the gall to contest a name that has traditionally, historically, culturally, linguistically, ethnically and geographically been part of the Greek-Hellenic world speak volumes about the state of their mental health. Only hardened propagandists or severely brainwashed individuals equate FYRoM's South-Slavs with Alexander the Great and the ancient-Mascedonians from antiquity.

It must be stressed - Greeks shall defend what is theirs by birthright. We shall defend our history and protect our heritage...Come Hell or High Water!

Is the Slav label really that much of a racial slur for the Slavic-speaking peoples of FYRoM, or is it something like a taboo-subject they try to keep hidden for fear of the truth becoming common-knowledge, which would sever their ties to the Macedonian-name they covet from since inception, 1944 wartime Yugoslavia.

The way FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have chosen to self-Identify defies the rules of logic and ridicules the demographic history of the Greek [Haemus] peninsula. They are known by their parent-ethnicity which is Slavic, but they consider this term a racial slur - now they have alienated Slavdom.

The rules governing the way peoples introduce themselves to strangers, and the way they Identify generally, follow simple rules of logic. The Greek formula for self-Identification and for self-determination follows these simple basic rules: Greeks would introduce themselves by their regional-tribal Identity in the first instance, followed by their parent-ethnicity in the second. The person meeting and greeting the Greek is under no illusion with whom he has just met, and is in contact with.

If we apply those simple rules to FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs, the outcome would be predictable and unsurprising. If the peoples of FYRoM used the same formula to self-Identify by their regional Identity in the first instance, and parent ethnicity in the second, the result would meet expectations.
They would take-on the name of their region first, and then, the name of their parent-ethnicity second!

Because FYRoM was renamed Macedonia in 1944, and because the geography there actually coresponds to the latin-Roman administered region of Macedonia Secunda Salutaris, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs have justification using the Macedonian-name by it's regional-geographic connotation - Macedonians regionally, followed by their parent-ethnicity which is known to be Slavic.

Slavic is parent-ethnicity to more than 300 Million regionally diverse people-groups...like Scandinavian is parent-ethnicity to approximately 20 Million peoples in geographic closer proximity - like Germanic is parent-ethnicity to over 100 Million people-groups scattered world-wide.

It used to be that when an individual introduced himself as Macedonian...the person in contact was left with illusions he just met a Greek, but all that has changed now...from since FYRoM entered onto the world stage and proclaimed itself Republic of Macedonia, where the peoples there self-identify as Macedonians in the ethnic and racial sense and cultural-linguistic sense - even though the people they are contact with know them differently as Slavs, from Serbian and Bulgarian stock.

Using the Greek formula - FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs would keep the Macedonian-name courtesy of regional-Identity, followed up by Slav, their parent-ethnicity...Macedonian-Slav for all intense and purposes!

Contrary to popular belief in some Slavic circles, particularly in FYRoM - there has never existed a race of peoples called Macedonians. As shocking as that may sound to some Slavs, the shock-waves get worse for them when they learn, there has never existed in historical verity, an independent nation called Macedonia.

No race ever recorded in the demographic history of the Haemus peninsula went by the name Macedonia. No Nation of Macedonians was ever recorded in historical verity.

Macedonians were neither a race nor a nation but an integral part of a much larger ethnic-Greek people-group, a collective which had in it's fold >230 known, affilated groups, tribes and kingdoms subscribing to a culture and a way of life known as Hellenism.

It is impossible to define the Macedonians as a seperate race in their own right, on the basis, one would have to define the Spartans a seperate race also - an almost impossible thing to do because the Spartans were irrefutably
Greek forming the Southern-branch of the famous Dorian-Greeks. The Macedonians formed the Northern-branch of the Dorians.

It is impossible to define the Macedonians as a seperate Nation from the Hellenic one from which they sprang, on the basis, their National traits, customs and attributes never differed from the Greek ones.

That some Slavs, in some Slavic circles, attempted, and still attempt to portray the Macedonians as a seperate peoples from the Greeks, serves only to remind us that Slavs still covet and still have eyes for Macedonia.

Macedonians, like the Spartans are a regional historic people-group of ethnic-Greek stock - any attempts to define them differently would be taken seriously and treated accordingly.

There has never existed outside of Hellenism, a Macedonian people-group. FYRoM's attempts to usurp that name to define themselves, their new Slavic country, nationality, language and ethnicity has met with such disdain and resistance, the country is being shunned internationally, shunted-up a siding, kept at arms length, at a distance from the rest of the European family of Nations.

Someone really needs to make Nicky the Geeky swallow a big ol' dose of shut up already




get over it boy; Alex was not Greek period!You still will have your echo to talk to



sincerely
Bear Slav
brother

Why this nonsense question?????
Greek ofc

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs cannot be denied the right to call themselves Macedonians in the regional sense, using the Macedonian term under it's regional-geographic connotation.

The justification for that is legitimized on the grounds, FYRoM falls under the jurisdiction of Macedonia Secunda Salutaris, a latin-Roman administered region meaning Second-Macedonia or Beneficial-Macedonia.

If we were to follow the ages-old Greek rules governing self-Identity, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs would become Macedonians by virtue of the fact they live on Macedonia II Salutaris home-turf.

Under those ancient-Greek rules, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs would become Secunda-Macedonians in the first instance, followed by their parent-ethnicity designation in the second instance. FYRoM's parent-ethnicity is known to be Slav, which results in a completed self-determination package called Macedonian-Slav.

According to Greek logic - The Greeks have always called them Macedonian-Slavs.

Interesting to note: Greeks have always called the Slavic populations of Macedonia proper - Macedonian-Slavs. The term Slavophone is another designation used by the Greeks, it describes Slavic speakers in Greece with Hellenic consciousness. There are also Greek speakers from Slavic heritage - Grkomani, as the FYRoM Slavs call them.

The rules are simple and time served from since antiquity!
Regional-tribal Identity in the first-instance followed by the parent-ethnicity in the second-instance. Using this formula, the result equates to Macedonian-Slav...this is how the Greeks describe Slavic speaking Macedonians.

Where is the racial slur

Human-rights and the rights of modern-peoples to self-declare, self-Identify or self-determine the way they wish or see fit, using a name which already exists and used by a racially different people-group, is no longer considered right, viable, or even appropriate, in the face of strong academic arguments favouring of the rights of indigenous-peoples using their native regional ethnic-name.

Macedonia(n): This name is attributed to a native, regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. The name has been in use in the Hellenic world from since the days of King Karanus 808-778 BC. The peoples of FYRoM declaring themselves "Macedonians" in the ethnic-sense and cultural-linguistic sense is problematic and confusing - Macedonians already exist, they are Greeks, and they have been residing in that same place, the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon for millennia.

The freedom to chose a name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes has it's limitations. In reality, FYRoM is restricted to chosing a name which properly reflects the peoples regional-Identity and the peoples parent-ethnicity - these are the normal conventions governing self description.

Greeks are the sole and legal heirs-Inheritors of the ancient-Macedonian legacy. Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity belong to the Greek world. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs must chose a different name to self-Identity with...the Macedonian-name they covet is already taken, it has been in use in the Greek world for milleniums.

If finding a name through the normal conventions proves difficult - the Central Balkan Republic is a vacant name waiting to be adopted...it could be used to legitimately end the name dispute between FYRoM and Greece in a peaceful and civilized manner.

FYRoM's diverse people-groups are entitled to use the Macedonian-name in it's regional-geographic connotation but logic dictates, it has to include a prefix or a suffix to describe the parent-ethnicity of the variant-peoples there - these are the restrictions. The freedom to chose a name always had it's limitations.

Greeks can legitimately claim cultural-continuity with the historical ancient-Macedonians - something which was not given proper consideration in FYRoM when they opted to use the same name for their own self-Identity. That the peoples there have been calling themselves Macedonians for a long time is given, but they have been doing that unjustly and inappropriately, and through a prism of filters...blocking-out the Hellenic connections to Macedonia through state sponsored censorship. It is forbidden in FYRoM to use the Hellenic term next to the Macedonian one, for fear of association.

FYRoM's right to freely chose a name for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes was, up to a short while ago, vehemently supported by politicians the world over until it was pointed out to them, first by historian scholars of the classics, and second, by demographers of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula - there is nothing Macedonian in FYRoM, not the land, not the peoples.

Total self-determination means differentiation for FYRoM!
The name they covet must be different enough to distinguish them from the Hellenic Macedonians...who are by definition, a regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock.

The name dispute between FYRoM and Greece has a lot to do with politics, but it has much much more to do with history.
Historian scholars of the classics were not prepared to bend and twist the mainstream historical narrative to accomodate FYRoM's pseudo-historical ethno-genesis story, the way politicians appeared to be. Politicians, through expediancy, were eager and prepared to award FYRoM the Macedonian-name...but for their objections.

Macedonia:To Be Greek in Macedonia

Not one qualified historian has ever come to their defence when they contest the Hellenic Identity of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. Not one credible politician has ever sided with them over the issue
of historical-revisionism, it's usage at government and state institution level in FYRoM. Not one academic has ever endorsed what FYRoM is doing with ancient-Greek history. Not
one diplomat has ever supported FYRoM's use of pseudo-history to negate the mainstream.

History is a science, the past is for historians to ponder. Politics is a carear, the future is for politicians to ponder. Both disciplines agree...the Greek positions hold the moral and academic higher-ground in regards to the long running name dispute issue between FYRoM and Greece.

Ultimately, it all boils down to this:

1...The Macedonian-name belongs in the Greek domain, on the basis, early Greeks originated the name.

2...The Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage, on the basis, modern-Greeks have principle right of claim.

Modern-peoples wanting to connect themselves to that name, that heritage, and that legacy need to push in front of the Greeks first.

To be Slav in Macedonia...means, to be Macedonian-Slav!

To be Greek in Macedonia...means, to be home!

Macedonia is a Greek place - it cannot be anything else. We Greeks have been living there from since millennia. We have watched variant-peoples come and go - watched them settle and watched them grow. Watched them multiply - watched them change. We know them. We knew their ancestors - they knew ours. We called them Sklaveni - they called us Grtci. This name Macedonia was unkown to them, they could not spell it nor write it, until they learned those literary skills from the Grtci. Rimyani-Grtci baptized them watched them civilize. Watched them organize. Watched them become the peoples they are today - Southern-Slavs!

Macedonia, this name they learned - the Grtci taught them...how to say it, how to spell it and how to write it.

Macedonia is a Greek place...from since the days of King Karanus 808-778 BC.

A Slav in Macedonia - is Macedonian-Slav.

A Greek in Macedonia - is Home!

[link to www.youtube.com]

Slava=Glory

Macedonia: Identify This

Macedonians have always been a Greek speaking Hellenic peoples, a regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock...history reflects that. The peoples of FYRoM are not Macedonians, at least, not in the Greek sense of the word - they are Slavs, Reluctant-Slavs, soon to be ejected from Slavdom, the Slavic collective of peoples for rejecting their Slavic heritage and for considering the Slav-label to be a racial slur.

By chosing as Greek-Hellenic name to Identify with, FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs distance themselves from their Slavic roots and ethno-origins...FYRoM's pseudo-history reflects that!
FYRoM adopted a Greek name to Identify with and the reason for that has not been fully understood...Why would a Slavic peoples from Serbian and Bulgarian stock use a Greek name to describe themselves ethnically and racially - culturally and linguistically ? Why Identify after a Greek-Hellenic name when the peoples in closest proximity to you, know you as Slavs! All of FYRoM's neighbours know them as Slavs and even the minorities in their own country refer to them as Slavs.

Clearly the protocols governing self-Identification are unknown in FYRoM, even though they have been around for a very long time. The Greek protocols for self-Identification are based on these simple rules: Regional-Identity in the first instance and Parent-Ethnicity in the second, see here:

1...A Macedonian to a Corinthian was a Macedonian, but to a Persian, he was Hellene from Macedonia.

2...A Spartan to an Athenian was a Spartan, but to an Egyptian, he was Hellene from Sparta.

Regional-Identification in the first instance - denoting place-name and birth-place of the ancestors, the original-peoples responsible for the creation of the name in the first place followed by Parent-Ethnicity in the second instance - denoting affiliation to a much wider peoples-collective.

To expand - the Greek way of Identifying oneself has as a reference point, the concept of a Europe...the Greeks knew their place in it. Macedonian - Hellene - Hellas - Evropi.
A Macedonian is a Greek from the Hellenic Republic which is situated in the south-eastern part of Europe. Regional-Identity - Macedonian. Parent-Ethnicity - Hellene.
National-Identity - Hellenic. Supranational-Identity - European.

There is only one way to Identify...use the name of your ancestors - this is what the Greeks do!

Why did it take 1,400 years for the Slavs of FYRoM to call themselves Macedonian. Why did it take that long to adopt the Macedonian-name. Why do the Slavs of FYRoM call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians" when their parent-ethnicity is Slavic. Why do the Slavs of FYRoM consider the Slavic label to be a racial slur. Why do they reject the Greek-Identity of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity - Why ?

Adopting a Greek-name means showing some Greek credentials. They call them "Macedonian" but those credentials are no different from the core Greek ones, which tilts FYRoM more towards Hellenism than towards Slavdom. By taking the Macedonian-name away from the Greeks, they incrementally shift away from Slavdom, from their Slavic roots and ethno-origins - moving more towards Hellenism, becoming more Hellenic, in the way they have to present themselves...a natural consequence they did not cater for.

Making Macedonians out of South-Slavs is not that hard considering they can be made under the right conditions. Those conditions were prevalent during WWII inside wartime Yugoslavia, where the Communist regime there schemed and plotted to take Northern-Greek territory by stealth or by military means.

That Slavs could be socially-engineered and ethnically-manipulated to develop ethnic-pride, national-feelings and collective-memories for ancient-Greeks is a reality, the example is FYRoM. Under those very strict, very controlled, authoritarian conditions, Communists made Macedonians out of Serbian and Bulgarian South-Slavs.

In FYRoM, the peoples there speak Slavic...they are considered Slavs and included into the Slavic collective. Slavdom includes them into the fold.

In FYRoM, the peoples there appear to have developed a new realm, they neither see themselves being fully Slavic or fully Hellenic, just Macedonian - Macedonian for them means speaking Serbo-Bulgarian, living in Paeonia, having King Philip of Macedon for ancestor and having his son Alexander the Great for hero.

The Macedonians first known ethnogenic-Identity was Greek-Hellenic. The Macedonians first known cultural-linguistic Identity was Greek-Hellenic. Macedonians Identified as Greeks, they saw themselves that way, integral to the Hellenic collective...a regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. Who is that imbecilic to contest the Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity but the Slavs of FYRoM.

Only in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia do they teach their children, students and pupils, a different version of our common ancient-European history.

Because FYRoM acquired the Macedonian name for the first time back in 1945, Slavic children were systematically coerced to think of themselves Macedonian. From that time till now, three generations of them have been raised to believe in a Slavic Alexander the Great. The fact they spoke Slavic did not appear strange to them...as far as they were concerned, their language was Macedonian, the same language spoken in antiquity by King Philip of Macedon.

In FYRoM today, there are children walking the streets thinking themselves Macedonians, the modern descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity - these children think Greeks stole their name, their land, their history, heritage, symbols, flags and hereditary insignia. For these children, Greeks are the enemy.

Only a hardened propagandist or a severely brainwashed individual equates FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs with the Macedonians of lore - only in FYRoM, do they socially engineer and ethnically manipulate young Slavic children to
think of themselves Macedonians when Macedonians started off as Greek speaking Hellenic peoples and never stopped, they are still here today...the same!

In the Balkans, there are peoples there who speak Slavic, look mediterenean and follow Islam - conversely, there are peoples there that speak Turkish, look Slavic and follow Orthodox Christendom...evidently, both the Turkic, and the Slavic elements must have interacted at various stages during the past.

In the Balkans, the peoples there form a true reflection of the mosaic of different cultures that decided to settle there and make it their home. In the Balkans, both the Slavic and Turkic elements must have interacted with the local native Greek one, to give them that distinct look unique to the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula.

Ultimately, we are who we are today through circumstance and by chance...an inheritance passed down to us from our ancestors, our immediate forebears. It was through their decisions, through their conscious choices that we find ourselves where we are today - like some of us in Slavic speaking areas and some of us not...like some of us following Islam and some of us not. What our immediate ancestors had to do, was their decision to make!

If through circumstance and by chance, you make a conscious decision to uproot yourself and your family - for better prospects elswhere...you are setting the stage for your future descendants to incrementally distance themselves away from their roots and ethno-origins.

In the Balkans, there are peoples walking around who are still not fully aware from where they originate!

[link to www.pnas.org] The
peoples of the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula largely descend from native common stock, the same gene-pool with outlying provincial variations. The peoples there carry a genetic signature who's footprint is found covering all those places where the ancient-Greeks dwelt, defusing the further away it gets from the main central core - the Hellenic heartlands. [link to www.pnas.org] In the genetic maps of Luca Cavali-Sforza, the Greek-Hellenic colonization of antiquity is clearly illustrated in Map 4.
From South-Italy in the West to Anatolia in the East, and from Crete in the South, to the Danube in the North, the Greeks left something more than just their language and culture - they left their genetic mark, a genetic footprint which matches their expansion from 800 BC.

All of Greeces neighbours carry some of that Greek stuff in the biological make-up. All of Greeces neighbours could claim partial-Greek ancestry - with partial-Greek rights to that inheritance, if they wanted it. Partial-Greeks are the Bulgarians and the Southern-most Slavs, according to Cavali-Sforza...Anatolian-Turks too.

In the case of Bulgarians - they claim partial-Thracian ancestry rather than partial-Greek ancestry...Turks do the same. North-West Anatolian-Turks claim partial-Thracian ancestry whilst Aegean-Turks claim ancestry from the ancient-Trojans. Bulgars and Turks shy away from claiming partial-Greek ancestry and have never staked claims to Greek
heritage directly. Thrace is an ancient geographic-region which is shared by Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey. A break-away group from any those countries wanting to establish an independent nation state called "The Republic of Thrace" would never be tolerated making the Idea a NoN-Starter in the first place, with zero chance of materializing.

Like Thrace - Macedonia is an ancient geographic-region. In this case, it is shared by Greece 52%, Bulgaria 9%, FYRoM 38%, and Albania 1%. It must be stressed here that the Greek portion of Macedonia constitutes the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon - the rest of the area aquired the name courtesy of latin-Roman rule, when Paeonia and Dardania were added to Macedonia-Prima for administrative purposes.

In the case of FYRoM, things were different. Slavists from the old-Yugoslavia resurrected "Macedonia II Salutaris" the latin-Roman extension to rename a South-Serbian province called Vardaska-Banovina. Slavists converted a province into
a republic - The Peoples Republic of Macedonia was born in 1945. With a Macedonian-language specially developed in 1944
and a Socialist Republic superceding the Peoples Republic in 1946, the Slavs had done something that was deemed nigh-on impossible - they created a Slavic Macedonian-Nation State.

Come 1991 - FYRoM opted to take a different course...the peoples there learned to use their partial-Greek ancestry in an anti-Hellenic way - they learned to usurp, lock, stock and barrel, the history and heritage of Macedonia from ancient times to the present.

In the Balkans we are all mixed - some of us more than others, that is why this statement is very important: The Macedonian-name belongs in the Greek domain...Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek heritage. Nobody is more closer to the Macedonians of lore than the ones who continue to follow Hellenism and the Hellenic way, it is they who have the entitlement, above and beyond those who follow Slavdom and the Slavic way!

he was a Scotsman.

There are many anomalous inconsistancies with FYRoM's choice
for self-determination name.

The first and foremost inconsistancy is this one: The Macedonian name they adopted is much older than their Slavic ancestors arival to the region. FYRoM's text-book reply to this anomaly is very crude, it goes like this: Their Slavic ancestors mixed with the local ancient-Macedonians, and through this union, the resulting amalgam inherited the Macedonian-name for self-Identity.

The second inconsistancy is this one: They speak Slavic now but call it Macedonian - so what language did the local ancient-Macedonians speak before they adopted Slavic. FYRoM's text-book reply to this anomaly is very crass, it goes like this: They call it Language-shift...it shifted from the original Centum-Greek to the Satem-Slavic through a natural process called language-shift.

The third inconsistancy is this one: FYRoM sits on ancient-Paeonian land south of Skopje, and ancient-Dardanian land north of Skopje...FYRoM was never part of the original ancient-Kingdom of Macedon - so why is it called Republic of Macedonia, when there is nothing Macedonian there. FYRoM's text-book reply to this anomaly is very uncouth and unrefined, it goes like this: Some Roman maps depict and illustrate the Greek peninsula split between Achaea and Macedonia. Achaea was for the Greeks and Macedonia for the Macedonians.

There is a fourth, a fifth and sixth inconsistancy, in-fact there are so many anomalies the list goes on and on, too numerous to mention...suffice to say, nobody takes FYRoM seriously anymore, the name they covet for self-Identity and for self-determination purposes has proven itself to be thoroughly Greek in all of the ways that matter - FYRoM trying to prove otherwise, has earned it a bad reputation for being the usurper of Greek names, symbols, history and heritage.

Macedonia:Thoroughly Greek Name

The Macedonian-name has proven itself to be a thoroughly Greek-name - Only Greeks can use it sincerely, in the genuine sense. NoN-Greeks wanting to use this name should stipulate in precise terms, their association to it, like regional-Identity possibly, followed-up by their parent-ethnicity...this is the format protocol the Greeks use for self-Identity and for self-determination.

A Greek would introduce himself to another Greek using his regional-tribal Identity in the first instance, then anticipate a reciprocal response. A Greek would introduce himself to a foreigner using the same format...regional-Identity in the first instance followed-up by parent-ethnicity in the second instance, then awaite a reciprocal response. In practice, the procedure is simple and uncomplicated.

If the peoples of FYRoM were to adopt Greek protocols for
self-Identity and for self-determination purposes, the procedure would make them Macedonians in the first-instance courtesy of their regional-Identity, and Slavic in the second-instance, courtesy of their parent-ethnicity.

To argue that the Macedonian-name is not Greek in order to usurp it, then proceed to apply that name exclusively to yourself, your country, your ethnicity, your language and your nationality...are actions so hostile to Greeks, you invite them to take defensive actions to protect their history and heritage.

European names are important to Europeans - more important to the people-groups that originated the name in the first place. There is no question about that, no argument that the Macedonian-name originated under Hellenic skies from Greek-speaking peoples using a Hellenic Centum language.

Macedonia is a thoroughly Greek name - who got the front, the gall or the bottle to argue that!