Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,464 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 377,851
Pageviews Today: 519,022Threads Today: 116Posts Today: 2,352
03:20 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 937458
Australia
04/11/2010 04:33 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
The phenomenon of time dilation is a strange yet experimentally confirmed effect of relativity theory. One of its implications is that events occurring in distant parts of the universe should appear to occur more slowly than events located closer to us. For example, when observing supernovae, scientists have found that distant explosions seem to fade more slowly than the quickly-fading nearby supernovae.

The effect can be explained because (1) the speed of light is a constant (independent of how fast a light source is moving toward or away from an observer) and (2) the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, which causes light from distant objects to redshift (i.e. the wavelengths to become longer) in relation to how far away the objects are from observers on Earth. In other words, as space expands, the interval between light pulses also lengthens. Since expansion occurs throughout the universe, it seems that time dilation should be a property of the universe that holds true everywhere, regardless of the specific object or event being observed. However, a new study has found that this doesn’t seem to be the case - quasars, it seems, give off light pulses at the same rate no matter their distance from the Earth, without a hint of time dilation.

Astronomer Mike Hawkins from the Royal Observatory in Edinburgh came to this conclusion after looking at nearly 900 quasars over periods of up to 28 years. When comparing the light patterns of quasars located about 6 billion light years from us and those located 10 billion light years away, he was surprised to find that the light signatures of the two samples were exactly the same. If these quasars were like the previously observed supernovae, an observer would expect to see longer, “stretched” timescales for the distant, “stretched” high-redshift quasars. But even though the distant quasars were more strongly redshifted than the closer quasars, there was no difference in the time it took the light to reach Earth.

This quasar conundrum doesn’t seem to have an obvious explanation, although Hawkins has a few ideas. For some background, quasars are extreme objects in many ways: they are the most luminous and energetic objects known in the universe, and also one of the most distant (and thus, oldest) known objects. Officially called “quasi-stellar radio sources,” quasars are dense regions surrounding the central supermassive black holes in the centers of massive galaxies. They feed off an accretion disc that surrounds each black hole, which powers the quasars’ extreme luminosity and makes them visible to Earth.

One of Hawkins’ possible explanations for quasars’ lack of time dilation is that light from the quasars is being bent by black holes scattered throughout the universe. These black holes, which may have formed shortly after the big bang, would have a gravitational distortion that affects the time dilation of distant quasars. However, this idea of “gravitational microlensing” is a controversial suggestion, as it requires that there be enough black holes to account for all of the universe’s dark matter. As Hawkins explains, most physicists predict that dark matter consists of undiscovered subatomic particles rather than primordial black holes.

There’s also a possibility that the explanation could be even more far-reaching, such as that the universe is not expanding and that the big bang theory is wrong. Or, quasars may not be located at the distances indicated by their redshifts, although this suggestion has previously been discredited. Although these explanations are controversial, Hawkins plans to continue investigating the quasar mystery, and maybe solve a few other problems along the way.

[link to www.physorg.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 923320
Australia
04/11/2010 05:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
Thanks for the post... Its a wierd world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 940835
United States
04/12/2010 03:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
yeah, thanks!

Must I add just for the record:

The big bang theory is bunk, time as most people understand it does not exist.

All time is now. There is no future or past, those are illusions your brain creates to make sense of your environment.
Funney

User ID: 78211
Czech Republic
04/12/2010 04:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
very nice
finally
the old & big & bang theory
will be on its knees
hf

"exponencially kneeling down"

Last Edited by Funney on 04/12/2010 05:02 AM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 745240
United States
04/12/2010 05:15 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
The phenomenon of time dilation is a strange yet experimentally confirmed effect of relativity theory. One of its implications is that events occurring in distant parts of the universe should appear to occur more slowly than events located closer to us. For example, when observing supernovae, scientists have found that distant explosions seem to fade more slowly than the quickly-fading nearby supernovae.

The effect can be explained because (1) the speed of light is a constant (independent of how fast a light source is moving toward or away from an observer) and (2) the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, which causes light from distant objects to redshift (i.e. the wavelengths to become longer) in relation to how far away the objects are from observers on Earth. In other words, as space expands, the interval between light pulses also lengthens. Since expansion occurs throughout the universe, it seems that time dilation should be a property of the universe that holds true everywhere, regardless of the specific object or event being observed. However, a new study has found that this doesn’t seem to be the case - quasars, it seems, give off light pulses at the same rate no matter their distance from the Earth, without a hint of time dilation.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 937458


Then, logically, the experimental confirmation of time dilation is erroneous, because either the speed of light is not constant or the unvierse is not expanding at an accelerating rate. Take your pick.

iamwith
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 894706
Poland
04/12/2010 05:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
Then, logically, the experimental confirmation of time dilation is erroneous, because either the speed of light is not constant or the unvierse is not expanding at an accelerating rate. Take your pick.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 745240


i'd take both ;)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 940878
United Kingdom
04/12/2010 05:42 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
yeah, thanks!

Must I add just for the record:

The big bang theory is bunk, time as most people understand it does not exist.

All time is now. There is no future or past, those are illusions your brain creates to make sense of your environment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 940835
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 940878
United Kingdom
04/12/2010 05:46 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
yeah, thanks!

Must I add just for the record:

The big bang theory is bunk, time as most people understand it does not exist.

All time is now. There is no future or past, those are illusions your brain creates to make sense of your environment.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 940878


That's an idea that is striking me lately. Billions of years are just thrown about so casually but when you really think about it, it's crazy.

Perhaps there are 'different' times that occasionally overlap. Perhaps we all move about the eather constantly repeating.

Something doesn't add up and as I say repeatedly, appreciate science for what it is and the discoveries it makes but please people, don't base your world view on it. It could all come tumbling down or lead you astray
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 926385
Australia
04/12/2010 05:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
very nice
finally
the old & big & bang theory
will be on its knees
hf

"exponencially kneeling down"
 Quoting: Funney

And it will be replaced by what?
Believing a book written by who knows, which doesn't even say exactly old the Earth is, or how it was created?
cruise
Funney

User ID: 78211
Czech Republic
04/12/2010 06:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
very nice
finally
the old & big & bang theory
will be on its knees
hf

"exponencially kneeling down"

And it will be replaced by what?
Believing a book written by who knows, which doesn't even say exactly old the Earth is, or how it was created?
cruise
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 926385


i never said i believe in something i read in a book :)

all sciences are materialzed guesses important for those using it (growing with, on it and thanks to it)

how can we, sensualy limited observers from 1 instance (closed system of actions/reactions in time) understand endless concept in the flow of realities ?

all are and will be only guesses and our projections
never the real in this form
only translation!


Last Edited by Funney on 04/12/2010 06:50 AM
Funney

User ID: 78211
Czech Republic
04/12/2010 06:54 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
for some it seems like in a prison
[link to funney.cz]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 871118
United States
04/12/2010 10:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
Then, logically, the experimental confirmation of time dilation is erroneous, because either the speed of light is not constant or the unvierse is not expanding at an accelerating rate. Take your pick.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 745240


The part they left out with the speed of light thing is that it IS constant, in a vacuum (or would appear constant if measured in a same state atmosphere). The crap in between us and the stars is what is impacting the speed of the light reaching us - not just the dust/dark matter, but the magnetic fields as well.

The second problem with the whole "expanding universe" thing is that according the the laws of motion, the universe cannot expand at a faster rate without an outside force acting on it.

When they mess up these two points, well, you get a false god named S. Hawking.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1446663
United States
06/28/2011 11:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Discovery that quasars don't show time dilation mystifies astronomers
yeah, thanks!

Must I add just for the record:

The big bang theory is bunk, time as most people understand it does not exist.

All time is now. There is no future or past, those are illusions your brain creates to make sense of your environment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 940835


I know this too. Surprising there are others that know this.

News