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*****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:12 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Someone just happened to be in place with a camera to film this? This is not an amateur video.. This vid was taken for documentation of the accident by the perpetrators.. The cameraman isnt reacting to the gunfire because he is with the gunmen.... damned damned damned
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 898985

This
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:13 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
[link to www.newsmax.com]

Saakashvili: 'Something Incredibly Evil' About Kaczynski Death

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says “there is something incredibly evil” in the death of Polish President Lech Kaczynski and his entourage this weekend.

Is the embattled Georgian president pointing fingers at the Russians?

Asked about elaborate on his "evil" comment during a CNN interview in London, Saakashvili said: “I mean the way he died. Of course, there is a symbolism in that. I do not want to comment about it.”


-----------------------------------------------------------

!!!!!!!!IMPORTANT other "hot news" !!!!!!!!!11 :

The georgian tv channel "imedi" 4 weeks ago aired a fictionous movie where the polish president kazcinski was murdered in his plane which was brought down with a bomb ..

this all in the light of a russian invasion of georgia which the polish president knew of ..

I don't finde english news about the two statements, so here comes the english translation of two german spoken sources who claim the above to be true :


original source german

[link to www.tagesanzeiger.ch]

translated with google , corrected manually where necessary:

The georgian tv channel Imedi ,controlled by Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili , beamed on 13 march 2010 a fictional movie of a Russian attack on the Southern kaukasus republic .

In this movie Saakashvili's ally, the polish president Lech Kaczynski was killed by a bomb on board his plane.


At that time ( 4 weeks ago ) the (true) Polish president, did not comment on the fictional fake report of him being murdered in a movie , but Saakashvili described the film as "realistic as reported by Russian media on Monday.

Kaczynski was in solidarity with Georgia after Russia's 2008 Southern kaukasus war and demonstratively with Saakashvili visited the border area to the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

At that time ( 2008) , the pilot of Kaczynski's machine to the repeated statement of the President was opposed to land despite uncertain conditions in the conflict zone and instead activated an airport nearby. Kaczynski, who had to continue his trip on a car, threated the driver with consequences because of insubordination.
-------------------------------------------------------

SECOND SOURCE : german

[link to info.kopp-verlag.de]

Translated :


After the crash of Polish President Kaczynski on 10 April

Georgian leader Saakashvili and Russian-enemy gives dark hints about the "symbolism" of the disaster.

On 13 March 2010, a month before the crash, beamed from the pro-government TV "Imedi" a fictional documentary, in which the aircraft of the Polish president was assassinated in a bomb ...

In Georgia they seem to have clairvoyant abilities. Already on 13 March 2010, a month before the catastrophe of Smolensk beamed, the government-Imedi television fictional documentary about a Russian invasion of Georgia one of them.

The fact that in the 30-minute, prime-time broadcast only a simulation film was acting, but that was only briefly mentioned in between - but then the tanks were rolling very real.

the simulation of the Georgian Imedi movie reported to contain an amazing piece of prophecy:

According to various media , the report asserts in, the machine of Polish President Lech Kaczynski and Saakashvili's friend had crashed after a bomb explosion in that movie.

Almost exactly a month later, on 10 April 2010, the unbelievable and completely improbable happened and kazcinskys plane crashed for real ..
aVian

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04/13/2010 07:13 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
AUTOPSY...make it happen
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frédéric Bastiat

food, water, ammo, weapons, battery back up solar, hand well pump, wood stove and 1 year of food...oh yeah PM's too...good luck
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:14 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
thats the sound of stepping on a dry branch.

its not.


yes it is. I analyzed the formants. It's exactly the sound of wood snapping in a crappy camera microphone.


you sir are an idiot.

nope im a sound engineer and the frequencies simply do not match that of a shotgun going off in a wooded environment, the fact that no reverb is heard backs up this fact


You're a sound engineer just like you're Canadian one minute and British the next.

where/when have i said i was canadian?

THAT sound in the youtube video IS NOT a shotgun. I know enough about this topic to be certain of that.


The guy saying he analyzed the formats and it's the sound of wood snapping posted from a Canadian server. Someone replied "you sir are an idiot" then you answered "nope I'm a sound engineer". And you posted from a British server. You're sloppy, there goes 10% of your shill wage.


I wrote teh first part. there are two independent sound engineers that have experience saying this is not a gunshot but only one saying it's a branch snapping. Listen to the hollow sound it makes. A gunshot would have a much different frequency profile (and as the other engineer says - noticeable reverberation signature)


I own 6 pistols and my friend owns at least that many. I have a .32acp that sounds very much like the sound. Most likely 9x18 or another small caliber.

I also grew up running around in the woods. If that was a branch, the person that stepped on it must have been 400-500 pounds because that's what it would take for a branch to make that much noise and sound like a gun going off.

It sounds very close to the Makarov the German person posted.

You can tell me it's a stick all day long but it's not. it's a gunshot.

I never said it was a stick or a twig or a branch for that matter. I did however say what it was not and that wasa shotgun (silenced [single] or not).

Now you say a Makarov because I have a morning off tomorrow I will analyse some makarov files in various environments and see what my professional opinion is.

My gut tells me it's not a handgun either and for the person above who says its def a gun, what a joker he is. I'm thinking fuselage the more I keep playing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849944


OK... But I'm going with gunshot since I shoot and it pretty much sounds like any of the small caliber guns I shoot. It's got that cracking sound.
embu
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04/13/2010 07:21 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
thats the sound of stepping on a dry branch.

its not.


yes it is. I analyzed the formants. It's exactly the sound of wood snapping in a crappy camera microphone.


you sir are an idiot.

nope im a sound engineer and the frequencies simply do not match that of a shotgun going off in a wooded environment, the fact that no reverb is heard backs up this fact


You're a sound engineer just like you're Canadian one minute and British the next.

where/when have i said i was canadian?

THAT sound in the youtube video IS NOT a shotgun. I know enough about this topic to be certain of that.


The guy saying he analyzed the formats and it's the sound of wood snapping posted from a Canadian server. Someone replied "you sir are an idiot" then you answered "nope I'm a sound engineer". And you posted from a British server. You're sloppy, there goes 10% of your shill wage.


I wrote teh first part. there are two independent sound engineers that have experience saying this is not a gunshot but only one saying it's a branch snapping. Listen to the hollow sound it makes. A gunshot would have a much different frequency profile (and as the other engineer says - noticeable reverberation signature)


I own 6 pistols and my friend owns at least that many. I have a .32acp that sounds very much like the sound. Most likely 9x18 or another small caliber.

I also grew up running around in the woods. If that was a branch, the person that stepped on it must have been 400-500 pounds because that's what it would take for a branch to make that much noise and sound like a gun going off.

It sounds very close to the Makarov the German person posted.

You can tell me it's a stick all day long but it's not. it's a gunshot.

I never said it was a stick or a twig or a branch for that matter. I did however say what it was not and that wasa shotgun (silenced [single] or not).

Now you say a Makarov because I have a morning off tomorrow I will analyse some makarov files in various environments and see what my professional opinion is.

My gut tells me it's not a handgun either and for the person above who says its def a gun, what a joker he is. I'm thinking fuselage the more I keep playing it.


OK... But I'm going with gunshot since I shoot and it pretty much sounds like any of the small caliber guns I shoot. It's got that cracking sound.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 797966

small caliber pistol shot!
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:22 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:22 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
thats the sound of stepping on a dry branch.

its not.


yes it is. I analyzed the formants. It's exactly the sound of wood snapping in a crappy camera microphone.


you sir are an idiot.

nope im a sound engineer and the frequencies simply do not match that of a shotgun going off in a wooded environment, the fact that no reverb is heard backs up this fact
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849944


fuck you - there clearly is reverb. also, there is low frequency energy meaning it is some type of explosion. whether from a gun who knows.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:24 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
thats the sound of stepping on a dry branch.

its not.


yes it is. I analyzed the formants. It's exactly the sound of wood snapping in a crappy camera microphone.


you sir are an idiot.

nope im a sound engineer and the frequencies simply do not match that of a shotgun going off in a wooded environment, the fact that no reverb is heard backs up this fact


You're a sound engineer just like you're Canadian one minute and British the next.

where/when have i said i was canadian?

THAT sound in the youtube video IS NOT a shotgun. I know enough about this topic to be certain of that.


The guy saying he analyzed the formats and it's the sound of wood snapping posted from a Canadian server. Someone replied "you sir are an idiot" then you answered "nope I'm a sound engineer". And you posted from a British server. You're sloppy, there goes 10% of your shill wage.


I wrote teh first part. there are two independent sound engineers that have experience saying this is not a gunshot but only one saying it's a branch snapping. Listen to the hollow sound it makes. A gunshot would have a much different frequency profile (and as the other engineer says - noticeable reverberation signature)


I own 6 pistols and my friend owns at least that many. I have a .32acp that sounds very much like the sound. Most likely 9x18 or another small caliber.

I also grew up running around in the woods. If that was a branch, the person that stepped on it must have been 400-500 pounds because that's what it would take for a branch to make that much noise and sound like a gun going off.

It sounds very close to the Makarov the German person posted.

You can tell me it's a stick all day long but it's not. it's a gunshot.

I never said it was a stick or a twig or a branch for that matter. I did however say what it was not and that wasa shotgun (silenced [single] or not).

Now you say a Makarov because I have a morning off tomorrow I will analyse some makarov files in various environments and see what my professional opinion is.

My gut tells me it's not a handgun either and for the person above who says its def a gun, what a joker he is. I'm thinking fuselage the more I keep playing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849944


Nobody said it was a shotgun! You are trying to confuse matters. It doesn't even make an ounce of sense for it to be a shotgun, shotguns are very limited use and you don't often see police/military carrying them. Also, you mention silenced shotgun, which is a very rare and ineffective thing.

You now say that you are off for the day, I can see why as you have accomplished your goal of confusing matters and causing problems.
Ostria

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04/13/2010 07:26 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Someone just happened to be in place with a camera to film this? This is not an amateur video.. This vid was taken for documentation of the accident by the perpetrators.. The cameraman isnt reacting to the gunfire because he is with the gunmen.... damned damned damned

This
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 942245


Nothing strange. They were waiting for the plane to land. There were officials and journalists there. The plane fell beside the airport.

The gunshots are probably of soldiers trying to secure the area. The only question is if the shots sound like hitting a target or in the air?

And another question is, there should be guards with guns in the plane, could their guns go off from the heat?
PhantomLordNYC

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04/13/2010 07:26 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 899040


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:29 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
strange thing is.. look at all the debris.

now compare to this:



'nothing larger than a phonebook'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 927698


B-I-N-G-O

Gee... fancy that..

DEBRIS and large pieces of the plane at a crash site...


and we 9/11 truthers, we're all just kkkkrrrraaazzzzyyyy

because we don't see any large debris from flight 93
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:30 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
How do we get them to perform this service for us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 437245

1rof1
Jeramiah Johnson

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04/13/2010 07:31 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.
 Quoting: PhantomLordNYC

If they were rounds "cooking off", wouldn't they be more random? These sounded like they were shot not cooked. Just my opinion.
"You can't judge a REAL MAN by his looks, height or weight. You can only judge him by the depth of his soul, the content of his character, and the size of his heart." - Me.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:34 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
You forgot what was done for Russians peoples

so how you can tell Russia done ?


this peoples who done this are cryminals
 Quoting: Tomek 912214



TOMEK!! Long time no see.

Good to see you are still around.
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04/13/2010 07:34 PM

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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
"President" tour to Smolensk was only for elections reasons .


I'm the living proof person on the Earth of this fact .
 Quoting: Tomek 912214

Whoa.....

Tomek is here....

There MUST be something afoot.....
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:35 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
How do we get them to perform this service for us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 437245


oh my
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:35 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.
 Quoting: PhantomLordNYC

I meant to say "If they gun shots...aimed at people which I doubt"
Those were most likely live rounds cooking off.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:38 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.

If they were rounds "cooking off", wouldn't they be more random? These sounded like they were shot not cooked. Just my opinion.
 Quoting: Jeramiah Johnson


I'd say they were rounds going off in a gun. I don't think rounds cooking off make the crack like that did. They're low velocity and not very compressed.

I've shot guns all of my life and I'd put money on it. I'm not going to say 100% but it sure sounds like a small caliber round going off.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:45 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Can anyone translate what they said?
 Quoting: Beingsouthern

0:50 "Ubijem Ciebia"
Skeptic the First
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04/13/2010 07:46 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
After the disbanding of the regiment, since October 2009 the airfield has been functioning in part as a civilian airport.

It's a civilian airfield.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 925596

Your first language must not be English. If an airport "has been functioning in part as a civilian airport," it is actually military.
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04/13/2010 07:47 PM

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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.

If they were rounds "cooking off", wouldn't they be more random? These sounded like they were shot not cooked. Just my opinion.


I'd say they were rounds going off in a gun. I don't think rounds cooking off make the crack like that did. They're low velocity and not very compressed.

I've shot guns all of my life and I'd put money on it. I'm not going to say 100% but it sure sounds like a small caliber round going off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 797966

It did to me too...and I've heard thousands and thousands...you can also hear the guy step on few twigs in the beginning...they make a much higher tighter register snap...one thing for sure...all four sounds were very close to each other sonically...if there were various bottles cooking off...I'd expect they would vary a LOT more...last one sounds more like it was pointed in the cameras direction...and all sound like gunshots to me...like about the .380 range....sounded smaller than 9mm parabelum....and that is what a Makarov fires...9x18?...something like that...but it's more or less a .380 or 9mm "short"....
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Ooooh, see the fire is sweepin' Our very streets today...
Burns like a red coal carpet, Mad bulls lost the way...
War, children, it's just a shot away...it's just a shot away....
Skeptic the First
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04/13/2010 07:47 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Can anyone translate what they said?

0:50 "Ubijem Ciebia"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 939475

"We will kill you."
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:50 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
I don't know a lot about guns, but aren't they pretty loud? Like, frighteningly loud?

The old man in the coat who appears near the end of the video doesn't look too..."startled". I think he even has his hands in his pockets or something.

And if there were "hit squads" sent in to "take care" of survivors, the guy who took this video and the old man he flimed would certainly...have been "hit" by the "squad" also, wouldn't they?

Fires in forests make all kinds of weird, random "cracking/popping"-sounds. This I do know a little about. And I'd say probably even more so when the fire derives from airplane wreckage which was almost certainly carrying Polish secret service guys armed to the teeth.

And anyway, when you read the account of how that plane went down...I mean, there were no survivors.

Even the few individuals who might've survived the impact were engulfed by the ensuing flames.

No one can survive that. There would be no need for "hit squads".

Although I'm curious what the Russian-to-English translation is. I only read the first page of this thread and then this one, so I don't know if anyone's translated it yet...
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:50 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Can anyone translate what they said?

0:50 "Ubijem Ciebia"

"We will kill you."
 Quoting: Skeptic the First 935303


yeah sure....
ScrumpTheTexan
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04/13/2010 07:51 PM

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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
AUTOPSY...make it happen
 Quoting: aVian

Those won't tell us anything... remember the Clinton years?
I am a Christian.

Christian does not equal doormat or pushover.

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Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:53 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
The georgian tv channel "imedi" 4 weeks ago aired a fictionous movie where the polish president kazcinski was murdered in his plane which was brought down with a bomb ..

........

Almost exactly a month later, on 10 April 2010, the unbelievable and completely improbable happened and kazcinskys plane crashed for real ..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 941835


you know what they say... there is no such thing as coincidence...
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:55 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
thats the sound of stepping on a dry branch.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 927698


^^^and THAT folks, is the sound of a brain exploding^^^
Rastifar

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04/13/2010 07:56 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
Gunshots.. Loud and clear !!
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:56 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.

If they were rounds "cooking off", wouldn't they be more random? These sounded like they were shot not cooked. Just my opinion.


I'd say they were rounds going off in a gun. I don't think rounds cooking off make the crack like that did. They're low velocity and not very compressed.

I've shot guns all of my life and I'd put money on it. I'm not going to say 100% but it sure sounds like a small caliber round going off.

It did to me too...and I've heard thousands and thousands...you can also hear the guy step on few twigs in the beginning...they make a much higher tighter register snap...one thing for sure...all four sounds were very close to each other sonically...if there were various bottles cooking off...I'd expect they would vary a LOT more...last one sounds more like it was pointed in the cameras direction...and all sound like gunshots to me...like about the .380 range....sounded smaller than 9mm parabelum....and that is what a Makarov fires...9x18?...something like that...but it's more or less a .380 or 9mm "short"....
 Quoting: SHR


Yep, sounds like a small arms round. I find it interesting that these people are there before the police folks are able to get there.

The thing is. There is a real possibility that someone is cleaning up the scene of a crime before the authorities are there.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2010 07:57 PM
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Re: *****GUNSHOTS HEARD AT POLISH PLANE CRASH SITE!******
If they were gun shots...which I doubt...it was the President of Poland's plane.
That means there were armed body guards carrying loaded guns on board and stored ammo on the plane.
Live rounds do tend to "cook" off when exposed to fire.


That is entirely possible. But considering the circumstances of the crash and where it happened, when one hears something like gun shots you have to assume they are.

If they were rounds "cooking off", wouldn't they be more random? These sounded like they were shot not cooked. Just my opinion.


I'd say they were rounds going off in a gun. I don't think rounds cooking off make the crack like that did. They're low velocity and not very compressed.

I've shot guns all of my life and I'd put money on it. I'm not going to say 100% but it sure sounds like a small caliber round going off.

It did to me too...and I've heard thousands and thousands...you can also hear the guy step on few twigs in the beginning...they make a much higher tighter register snap...one thing for sure...all four sounds were very close to each other sonically...if there were various bottles cooking off...I'd expect they would vary a LOT more...last one sounds more like it was pointed in the cameras direction...and all sound like gunshots to me...like about the .380 range....sounded smaller than 9mm parabelum....and that is what a Makarov fires...9x18?...something like that...but it's more or less a .380 or 9mm "short"....
 Quoting: SHR


Good point about how they all sounded the same.

9x18 is common eastern block surplus. I can't tell exactly from round to round but I'd say were close. 9x18 makes sense but it could be anything small. I have a cz50 that is .32acp and it sounds like that too. But alas, a small caliber.

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