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BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 11:40 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Well they could raise the cap. It would only be unconstitutional if they expected BP to pay more than $75 million now, because the accident occurred before they changed the law.

The new cap would affect companies responsible for oil spills in the future.

What Murkowski is doing now, is essentially letting other oil companies know that even if they are negligent in the future they will still make the tax payers pay for the mistake.
PrincessBride

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05/14/2010 11:42 AM

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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
It is NOT Ex Post Facto wrt to the oil that gets spewed out AFTER the bill is passed.

Yes, but the agreements that these operations were performed under was before this proposed legislation. The company agreed to the terms of already existing law under the understanding that those conditions would apply and could not be changed after the fact. Furthermore, they had a lease with the government to allow them to extract these resources under the terms of the existing law. Therefore, the contract clause also applies in this case.

Obviously the oil industry lobbied hard for their very very low damages cap ... and got what their lobbying money paid for (shoving the risks and costs onto the local residents and taxpayers at large).

"Corner Cutting" appears to be a BIG ISSUE with this entire blow out .... but that is normal business behavior by virtually all large businesses operating in the US.

Modifying the BOP and then not even keeping engineering data on how it was modified is of course "Corner Cutting".

Not even checking to see if the batteries were good on the BOP is of course "Corner Cutting".

Replacing one of the hydraulic rams of the BOP with a test pod and then not putting the hydraulic ram back on before sending it to the bottom of the sea is of course "Corner Cutting"

Using a BOP that was not even designed for cutting this size pipe but for a smaller size pipe is of course "Corner Cutting"

Not doing the second cement job when the data clearly indicated a problem in the well before removing the drilling mud is of course "Corner Cutting" (saves time ... and the rig was scheduled to leave the next day or so news reports said)

The list just goes on and on and on.

Safety Backups are NOT going to work if Corners are Cut all the time ... since the Corner Cutting is going to ensure that they don't work.

Transocean and BP clearly were cutting corners left and right on this job ... and now they want to hide behind the damages cap that their lobbiests got inserted into the law for them. While legal it is certainly immoral.

What is it with Houston based businesses? Enron, Transocean, BP's north american operations ... scamming the regulators and public seems appears to be the accepted operating practices in that part country.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 967860


Those are all separate issues, which were addressed in the lease agreement between BP & the U.S. Government.
[link to www.wtop.com]
"Kenneth Baer, spokesman for the Office of Management and Budget, also noted that if BP were found to have acted negligently in the spill or to have violated federal laws, the damages cap under the Oil Pollution Act would be lifted."

See it's already in the terms and applicable under existing law.

So rather than use their brains and address these issues in comportment with the U.S. Constitution, they would rather violate it. All they have to do is address this in reference to the future and apply existing law and terms of the agreement properly.
It takes no genius!

Look this entire thing is about the principle of the rule of law. If we can change terms on BP, then nothing will stop them from changing our laws to penalize citizens arbitrarily, after the fact. If they can do this to BP, then they can do this to us. Then again, maybe that is what they are after.
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Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 11:43 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
All BP Executives and any politician involved should be locked in a cage by now. Sort it all out later. If the gulf kills the planet, keep them in there forever.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 923672



Wow!! Talk about brain dead, why do libtards always engage mouth before brain? Typical libtard knee jerk reaction - don't base a statement on facts or research just open mouth and spill out dribble. If you keep repeating something long enough you might believe it's true, but not everyone!
BTW I just bought a whole case of bottled water at Walmart!
banana
Sinanju2

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05/14/2010 11:44 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Sinanju2 is spot on regarding the Ex-Post facto details. If this were allowed, it would set precedent and be used againa and again until it became the norm, just like personal injury lawsuits (Virtually non-existent in the 80s and now are a standard courtroom staple)

To allow this, after the fact, would shred the Constitution, and at the same time you would literally spur a mass exodus of corporations out of the country as they would have no security it could not happen to them.

Wouldn;t surprise me if BP gets nationalized before all is said and done on this...
 Quoting: UNThreaded


>>Thanks but I have to disagree with a concept you seem to be exhibiting here.. I think THAT incident is the PERFECT time to bring the hammer down on a corporation with personal injury lawsuits. I do NOT agree with retroactively changing a law but I DO agree that BP should essentially be dissected and portioned out to the people and organizations in the Gulf area affected by this travesty. Personal injury lawsuits is exactly the way to go about this.
I don't do book reports, I don't sort the wheat from the chaff but I will discuss the topic of your ignorance if I'm asked. -MC Frontalot

“But make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction...” -Barry Obammy
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 11:45 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
All BP Executives and any politician involved should be locked in a cage by now. Sort it all out later. If the gulf kills the planet, keep them in there forever.



Wow!! Talk about brain dead, why do libtards always engage mouth before brain? Typical libtard knee jerk reaction - don't base a statement on facts or research just open mouth and spill out dribble. If you keep repeating something long enough you might believe it's true, but not everyone!
BTW I just bought a whole case of bottled water at Walmart!
banana
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 951205



Engaging the mouth before the brain is a conservative trait.
Sinanju2

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05/14/2010 11:46 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Well they could raise the cap. It would only be unconstitutional if they expected BP to pay more than $75 million now, because the accident occurred before they changed the law.

The new cap would affect companies responsible for oil spills in the future.

What Murkowski is doing now, is essentially letting other oil companies know that even if they are negligent in the future they will still make the tax payers pay for the mistake.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 970492


>>I have no issue with raising the cap. That is a different issue. Raising the cap retroactively is unconstitutional and I will fight it tooth and nail.
I don't do book reports, I don't sort the wheat from the chaff but I will discuss the topic of your ignorance if I'm asked. -MC Frontalot

“But make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction...” -Barry Obammy
bed
Netizen Ribbonmind

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05/14/2010 11:46 AM

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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Sarah Palin is just as stupid.

Last Edited by pool on 05/14/2010 11:46 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 11:49 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Well they could raise the cap. It would only be unconstitutional if they expected BP to pay more than $75 million now, because the accident occurred before they changed the law.

The new cap would affect companies responsible for oil spills in the future.

What Murkowski is doing now, is essentially letting other oil companies know that even if they are negligent in the future they will still make the tax payers pay for the mistake.


>>I have no issue with raising the cap. That is a different issue. Raising the cap retroactively is unconstitutional and I will fight it tooth and nail.
 Quoting: Sinanju2

somewhere there must be pigs flying and satan is probably freezing his balls off.

because we actually agree on something.
Sinanju2

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05/14/2010 11:53 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Sarah Palin is just as stupid.
 Quoting: bed


>>What does this have to do with the constitutionality of an EX POST FACTO law??
I don't do book reports, I don't sort the wheat from the chaff but I will discuss the topic of your ignorance if I'm asked. -MC Frontalot

“But make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction...” -Barry Obammy
Sinanju2

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05/14/2010 11:54 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Well they could raise the cap. It would only be unconstitutional if they expected BP to pay more than $75 million now, because the accident occurred before they changed the law.

The new cap would affect companies responsible for oil spills in the future.

What Murkowski is doing now, is essentially letting other oil companies know that even if they are negligent in the future they will still make the tax payers pay for the mistake.


>>I have no issue with raising the cap. That is a different issue. Raising the cap retroactively is unconstitutional and I will fight it tooth and nail.

somewhere there must be pigs flying and satan is probably freezing his balls off.

because we actually agree on something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 970492


>>I don't argue issues from emotion. When you don't argue from emotion, you will find that we are in agreement.
I don't do book reports, I don't sort the wheat from the chaff but I will discuss the topic of your ignorance if I'm asked. -MC Frontalot

“But make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction...” -Barry Obammy
UNThreaded

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05/14/2010 11:59 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Sarah Palin is just as stupid.
 Quoting: bed

Seriously. You are out of pocket on a grand scale.


Post could say OMG, a meteor is getting ready to strike the EARTH and your reply would be "McCain sucks"wtf

Stay on point and while your at it, join the CURRENT CONVERSATION with the CURRENT Administration... You are mentally back in the days of the Presidential campaign, just like Obama...
-Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty~Thomas Jefferson

-Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe – Noah Webster
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:00 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Why would people support personal responsibility but give corporations free reign to destroy the environment? Aren't corporations supposed to have the same rights and duties as individuals? Maybe they don't actually believe in individual or corporate responsibility if they can get away with it. It's another lie.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:08 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You're all missing the point...

The increased cap is just a ploy by the administration to make it look like they're being responsive, when in reality the deal was probably negotiated directly with BP.

Raising to $10B makes the administration look like they're out there trying to protect the environment and go after the evil oil companies. $10B is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions in damage that will likely come out of this when all's said and done.

The previous limit was so low that politically nobody would tolerate it. Raising it to $10B is a pre-emptive strike to actually LIMIT BP's overall liability in relation to true costs, not to raise their liability.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:10 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Bitch should be hanged!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 865261


I just love you people. Out of one side of your mouth you yell, "We want freedom..." but out of the other side of your mouth you yell, "Crack down on them!"

Fuck all of you. You're nothing but a bunch of creedy imbeciles that think only of your personal comfort and profit.

Keep the government out of everything. A *CAP*? There should be no *CAP*. If they are responsible, common law says they have to fix it, whoever *THEY* are.

Stop turning to government for all your needs. Government simply perverts common law. The common law solution is already there.

THERE IS NO FUCKING CAP! The "cap" is only used as a lobbying tool to fill politician's coffers. Wake up people, before your country is completely controlled by the lobbyist bastards in washington.

Government is the Anti-Midas. Everything they touch turns to complete and utter shit. Capping liabilities is the same way. THERE IS NO CAP! You break it, you fix it.
Democritus (OP)

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05/14/2010 12:13 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Bitch should be hanged!


I just love you people. Out of one side of your mouth you yell, "We want freedom..." but out of the other side of your mouth you yell, "Crack down on them!"

Fuck all of you. You're nothing but a bunch of creedy imbeciles that think only of your personal comfort and profit.

Keep the government out of everything. A *CAP*? There should be no *CAP*. If they are responsible, common law says they have to fix it, whoever *THEY* are.

Stop turning to government for all your needs. Government simply perverts common law. The common law solution is already there.

THERE IS NO FUCKING CAP! The "cap" is only used as a lobbying tool to fill politician's coffers. Wake up people, before your country is completely controlled by the lobbyist bastards in washington.

Government is the Anti-Midas. Everything they touch turns to complete and utter shit. Capping liabilities is the same way. THERE IS NO CAP! You break it, you fix it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 851753


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:14 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You're all missing the point...

The increased cap is just a ploy by the administration to make it look like they're being responsive, when in reality the deal was probably negotiated directly with BP.

Raising to $10B makes the administration look like they're out there trying to protect the environment and go after the evil oil companies. $10B is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions in damage that will likely come out of this when all's said and done.

The previous limit was so low that politically nobody would tolerate it. Raising it to $10B is a pre-emptive strike to actually LIMIT BP's overall liability in relation to true costs, not to raise their liability.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 692405


Hey! Looky here! Somebody gets it!

There is no *CAP*. Common law dictates that if you break it you fix it. If it kills your company because of you cleaning up your mess, well, you shouldn't have made the mess.

Caps and shit are only tools of government oppression. Adhere to common law and reject the tenets of the UCC. The UCC is the law of the NWO and is designed to subjugate men and elevate corporations. COMMON LAW is the ONLY LAW. With the UCC there are only statues.
eugenics
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05/14/2010 12:22 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Lisa Murkowski BLOCKS Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap

A bill to increase the liability cap for oil spills from $75 million to $10 billion was defeated Thursday by Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska.


WHAT A FUCKING DUMB BITCH! HOW CAN IT JUST BE A WOMAN?

A bill to increase the liability cap for oil spills from $75 million to $10 billion was defeated Thursday by Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska.

Bill S.3305, the "Big Oil Bailout Prevention Liability Act" would cap BP's liability at $10 billion, even if damages from the gulf oil spill surpass that figure. The company already estimates that spill will cost $450 million to clean up.

Murkowski, a drilling supporter, has received almost $300,000 in campaign contributions from the oil and gas industry.

Read more: [link to www.huffingtonpost.com]
 Quoting: Democritus



very good move on her part, see the oil companies get their
money from the consumer.

so, instead of getting raped for 10 billion in additional
costs, paying at the pump shall remain the same.


HAEOHAEOHAEOHAEOHAEO
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:22 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You are all full of shit. There is a principle involved here. You can't go and retro-actively change a law just to soak someone for more money after the fact. You don't buy a car for $15k and then have some bureaucrat come in 6 months later and tell you that the actual price is going to be $20k. If the government wanted a bigger cap, they should have acted on it beforehand.

You ladies need to pull your panties out of your cracks and start thinking with your brains.


We're just not talking about a car here but the fact that the neglect of safety by these oil companies destroy our environment, economy and lives.


>>The analogy remains correct no matter how you try to engage people's emotions about the issue. Any law that is retroactive is unconstitutional. What part of that sentence do you not understand?
 Quoting: Sinanju2


Unconstitutional? WTF? Our rights (We the people) are being taken away little by little every day behind our backs and behind closed doors and slid silently into a bill.
We are losing our rights, why the hell can't the oil companys lose theirs??? THEY are killing this planet faster than we the people.
ANNONYMOUS
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05/14/2010 12:27 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You are all full of shit. There is a principle involved here. You can't go and retro-actively change a law just to soak someone for more money after the fact. You don't buy a car for $15k and then have some bureaucrat come in 6 months later and tell you that the actual price is going to be $20k. If the government wanted a bigger cap, they should have acted on it beforehand.

You ladies need to pull your panties out of your cracks and start thinking with your brains.


>>Retroactive laws are unconstitutional. I believe the term used is post facto, though somebody may be better with off the cuff latin than I.

5a

The term you are referring to is EX POST FACTO. In effect this means one cannot pass laws which reach back in time to for example criminalize an act which when done was purely legal. I doubt that the current discussion really has much if anything to do with this. There was a law on the books establishing a cap. They simply are now talking about adjusting that cap UP. Since the Gulf incident is ongoing there really is no ex post facto consideration here.

It's not just criminalizing something that was legal before. I guess you just took an intro class and didn't go any further, or you went to Harvard on an affirmative action pass. Anyway, it's changing any law after the fact to apply to a particular circumstance.

Read it and weep, bonehead.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law."
It's pretty darn simple really.
 Quoting: PrincessBride

5a

Oh, and just where did you get your Law Degree from Princeass, the University of Wiki? So you are maintaining then that Congress cannot draft a new law which is what it is doing in this area from that day forward bullshit. If I drilled my well a year ago and the law read $75 mill does that mean that Congress cannot change that law I think not. Likewise if I am correct about each days spill actually being adjudged a new incident then you are wrong aren't you. I have no axe to grind here. You would be better served by arguing proximate cause and ex post facto to support your contention. That goes for you also SYNAPSE.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:28 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Well they could raise the cap. It would only be unconstitutional if they expected BP to pay more than $75 million now, because the accident occurred before they changed the law.

The new cap would affect companies responsible for oil spills in the future.

What Murkowski is doing now, is essentially letting other oil companies know that even if they are negligent in the future they will still make the tax payers pay for the mistake.


>>I have no issue with raising the cap. That is a different issue. Raising the cap retroactively is unconstitutional and I will fight it tooth and nail.
 Quoting: Sinanju2


The Constitution is Common Law. *HAVING* a cap is unconsititutional. There is no cap. You break it. You fix it. End of story. BP should be made to pay for all damages and all cleanup and all damages to other businesses.

Common law dictates this. The Constitution demands it!

But! It will not happen. Our corrupt politicians will accept "campaign donations" (Under UCC: lobbying, Under Common Law: bribes) to enact a "cap". This cap will be used legally to try to hold the the expenses of what BP will have to be responsible for. DO NOT BE FOOLED! If you have a business or property and it was damaged by the stupid and careless activities of a corporation, you, as a flesh and blood human being, have Common Law Rights. One flesh and blood human being has more power that a million corporations that can only operate withing the UCC. Don't act like a bunch of sheople! The lawyers are paid to *LIE* to you and misdirect you! All entities, corporate or otherwise, have Common Law Responsibilities to repair any damage to property they damage.

Now, if you have a business and you are incorporated, well, then, you've set yourself up under the UCC and whatever cap or decision made, you have to abide by. But, flesh and blood human beings operate outside and above the UCC. The UCC is a subset of Common Law. Flesh and Blood (wo)men have command of the Common Law which surrounds and supercedes the UCC or other corrupt "legal system". The sooner the populations of the earth realize this, the better.

Now, go out there and kick their corporate asses into shape! Stop all this sheople whining. Stand up. Study common law and the UCC then GO GET 'EM!
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:33 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
Unconstitutional? WTF? Our rights (We the people) are being taken away little by little every day behind our backs and behind closed doors and slid silently into a bill.
We are losing our rights, why the hell can't the oil companys lose theirs??? THEY are killing this planet faster than we the people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 967434


Our rights are not being taken away!!! Get a clue. They are convincing you that they are and that you are powerless. YOU ARE NOT! One astute citizen that has studied Common Law and the UCC could hold the entire US Oil Industry hostage were (s)he to understand how the UCC and Common Law relate to each other.

Stop your bellyaching! The are not taking our rights away! They are giving you ignorance and lies.

While we all (myself included) were yelling months ago, "READ THE DAMN BILL!!!", as I look back, it embarrasses me. Why? Because we're no different! WE THE PEOPLE need to READ THE LAW and know what they can and cannot do. They break the law because we let them.

STOP LETTING!
suvalley

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05/14/2010 12:36 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
As an Alaskan, I am amused by the misconceptions about Lisa Murkowski. I am pretty sure she took that stance based upon the (aptly described above) ex post facto matter. She probably has a well thought out position up on her website.

[link to murkowski.senate.gov]

BP has already said they are responsible for clean up. I read somewhere they've already spent millions, with much more to go as this catastrophe progresses-it could be enough to break them over the long haul. Exxon, however, has susccessfully staved off paying punitive damages for the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill. Originally, they were assessed $5 Billion, and appealed that down to $500 million. They are still fighting it out in court, over twenty years later. By the time it settles, many of the original complainants will have died. Where is the outrage over Exxon? No one cares.

That she has sizable campaign contributions from the energy industry should surprise no one.....Oil is our largest employer here-aside from being on the state payroll directly-and the companies contribute to dozens of local politicians every year. Just as they sponsor or contribute to literally 100s of community projects and organizations every year. Schools, museums, the arts, parks, community service organizations, you name it, oil has likely helped.


Without their presence in this state, we would be....well, nowhere, just about.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2010 12:41 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You are all full of shit. There is a principle involved here. You can't go and retro-actively change a law just to soak someone for more money after the fact. You don't buy a car for $15k and then have some bureaucrat come in 6 months later and tell you that the actual price is going to be $20k. If the government wanted a bigger cap, they should have acted on it beforehand.

You ladies need to pull your panties out of your cracks and start thinking with your brains.


>>Retroactive laws are unconstitutional. I believe the term used is post facto, though somebody may be better with off the cuff latin than I.

5a

The term you are referring to is EX POST FACTO. In effect this means one cannot pass laws which reach back in time to for example criminalize an act which when done was purely legal. I doubt that the current discussion really has much if anything to do with this. There was a law on the books establishing a cap. They simply are now talking about adjusting that cap UP. Since the Gulf incident is ongoing there really is no ex post facto consideration here.

It's not just criminalizing something that was legal before. I guess you just took an intro class and didn't go any further, or you went to Harvard on an affirmative action pass. Anyway, it's changing any law after the fact to apply to a particular circumstance.

Read it and weep, bonehead.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law."
It's pretty darn simple really.

5a

Oh, and just where did you get your Law Degree from Princeass, the University of Wiki? So you are maintaining then that Congress cannot draft a new law which is what it is doing in this area from that day forward bullshit. If I drilled my well a year ago and the law read $75 mill does that mean that Congress cannot change that law I think not. Likewise if I am correct about each days spill actually being adjudged a new incident then you are wrong aren't you. I have no axe to grind here. You would be better served by arguing proximate cause and ex post facto to support your contention. That goes for you also SYNAPSE.
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 825313


Ex post facto law is illegal under the Constitution, or, Common Law, however, since the Uniform Commercial Code is not law, only statutes, they can pass ex post facto "law" all they want. The fact that they lie to you and tell you that it is law, and you accept it, is the root of the problem.

A $1 bill is not a bill and all! Its a Federal Reserve Note, a certificate of debt. It is neither a bill or money, however, you treat is as such and accept it as such. Who is at fault here? The con man or the conned? At some point the conned, after being screwed for years and years, over and over, has to take some responsibility for being the sheep.

STAND UP! KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, OR SHUT UP AND ACCEPT YOUR CHAINS!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
The previous limit was so low that politically nobody would tolerate it. Raising it to $10B is a pre-emptive strike to actually LIMIT BP's overall liability in relation to true costs, not to raise their liability.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 692405


The astuteness of this observation cannot be overstated!

AC, you are very, very wise!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 537928
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05/14/2010 12:46 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
God....how many fools does it take to completely ruin this country?
PrincessBride

User ID: 967230
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05/14/2010 12:50 PM

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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You are all full of shit. There is a principle involved here. You can't go and retro-actively change a law just to soak someone for more money after the fact. You don't buy a car for $15k and then have some bureaucrat come in 6 months later and tell you that the actual price is going to be $20k. If the government wanted a bigger cap, they should have acted on it beforehand.

You ladies need to pull your panties out of your cracks and start thinking with your brains.


>>Retroactive laws are unconstitutional. I believe the term used is post facto, though somebody may be better with off the cuff latin than I.

5a

The term you are referring to is EX POST FACTO. In effect this means one cannot pass laws which reach back in time to for example criminalize an act which when done was purely legal. I doubt that the current discussion really has much if anything to do with this. There was a law on the books establishing a cap. They simply are now talking about adjusting that cap UP. Since the Gulf incident is ongoing there really is no ex post facto consideration here.

It's not just criminalizing something that was legal before. I guess you just took an intro class and didn't go any further, or you went to Harvard on an affirmative action pass. Anyway, it's changing any law after the fact to apply to a particular circumstance.

Read it and weep, bonehead.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law."
It's pretty darn simple really.

5a

Oh, and just where did you get your Law Degree from Princeass, the University of Wiki? So you are maintaining then that Congress cannot draft a new law which is what it is doing in this area from that day forward bullshit. If I drilled my well a year ago and the law read $75 mill does that mean that Congress cannot change that law I think not. Likewise if I am correct about each days spill actually being adjudged a new incident then you are wrong aren't you. I have no axe to grind here. You would be better served by arguing proximate cause and ex post facto to support your contention. That goes for you also SYNAPSE.
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 825313

I used a wiki link because I could see the brain power capacity on this thread would be breached otherwise.
The information is correct and valid or I would not have posted it.

We were arguing proximate cause. The proximate cause occured before this legislation was introduced. That's what we are both saying, dipshit!

By arguing that every day after the initial accident should be adjudged a new incident, you are the one actually departing from proximate cause. The proximate cause was one incident before the fact of this proposed legislation.
Heart of the heroes, ride.
Up through an empty house of stars,
Being what heart you are,
Up the inhuman steeps of space
As on a staircase go in grace,
Carrying the firelight on your face
Beyond the loneliest star.
"The Ballad Of The White Horse,"
G. K. Chesterton
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 616767
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05/14/2010 12:50 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
ever heard of bribes? reeks of one baaaaad.
The Viceroy
User ID: 740955
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05/14/2010 12:51 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
This is what you get when you have a generation raised by chickenshit liberals that think like school girls. Can't think with your brains anymore. Everything is feeeeelings. I feeeeel that BP ought to be punished, therefore I will impose the punishment that I feeeeeeel is right, even though it is not legal. My feeeeeelings trump the rule of law. If I feeeeel differently tomorrow, I will base another decision on those feeeeelings.

PATHETIC!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 851753
United States
05/14/2010 12:54 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
This is what you get when you have a generation raised by chickenshit liberals that think like school girls. Can't think with your brains anymore. Everything is feeeeelings. I feeeeel that BP ought to be punished, therefore I will impose the punishment that I feeeeeeel is right, even though it is not legal. My feeeeeelings trump the rule of law. If I feeeeel differently tomorrow, I will base another decision on those feeeeelings.

PATHETIC!
 Quoting: The Viceroy 740955


Good call!

Precedents and case law: Feelings of the court (falsely) held
above common law. BAD NEWS! ...unconstitutional and unlawful.
PrincessBride

User ID: 967230
United States
05/14/2010 12:54 PM

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Re: BREAKING: Bill To Raise Oil Spill Liability Cap BLOCKED! Another Dumb Alaska Woman
You are all full of shit. There is a principle involved here. You can't go and retro-actively change a law just to soak someone for more money after the fact. You don't buy a car for $15k and then have some bureaucrat come in 6 months later and tell you that the actual price is going to be $20k. If the government wanted a bigger cap, they should have acted on it beforehand.

You ladies need to pull your panties out of your cracks and start thinking with your brains.


>>Retroactive laws are unconstitutional. I believe the term used is post facto, though somebody may be better with off the cuff latin than I.

5a

The term you are referring to is EX POST FACTO. In effect this means one cannot pass laws which reach back in time to for example criminalize an act which when done was purely legal. I doubt that the current discussion really has much if anything to do with this. There was a law on the books establishing a cap. They simply are now talking about adjusting that cap UP. Since the Gulf incident is ongoing there really is no ex post facto consideration here.

It's not just criminalizing something that was legal before. I guess you just took an intro class and didn't go any further, or you went to Harvard on an affirmative action pass. Anyway, it's changing any law after the fact to apply to a particular circumstance.

Read it and weep, bonehead.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions committed or relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law."
It's pretty darn simple really.

5a

Oh, and just where did you get your Law Degree from Princeass, the University of Wiki? So you are maintaining then that Congress cannot draft a new law which is what it is doing in this area from that day forward bullshit. If I drilled my well a year ago and the law read $75 mill does that mean that Congress cannot change that law I think not. Likewise if I am correct about each days spill actually being adjudged a new incident then you are wrong aren't you. I have no axe to grind here. You would be better served by arguing proximate cause and ex post facto to support your contention. That goes for you also SYNAPSE.


Ex post facto law is illegal under the Constitution, or, Common Law, however, since the Uniform Commercial Code is not law, only statutes, they can pass ex post facto "law" all they want. The fact that they lie to you and tell you that it is law, and you accept it, is the root of the problem.

A $1 bill is not a bill and all! Its a Federal Reserve Note, a certificate of debt. It is neither a bill or money, however, you treat is as such and accept it as such. Who is at fault here? The con man or the conned? At some point the conned, after being screwed for years and years, over and over, has to take some responsibility for being the sheep.

STAND UP! KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, OR SHUT UP AND ACCEPT YOUR CHAINS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 851753

You get a gold star for the most retarded statement of the day on GLP!
OMG!!!!
What the hell do you think a "statute" is?
Hint: It's a law.
Heart of the heroes, ride.
Up through an empty house of stars,
Being what heart you are,
Up the inhuman steeps of space
As on a staircase go in grace,
Carrying the firelight on your face
Beyond the loneliest star.
"The Ballad Of The White Horse,"
G. K. Chesterton
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