ZetaTalk LIVE Chat May 15

And, as I said before, all your 'observations' depend on you REMEMBERING where the sun was a year ago. You made NO witness marks to go by.... admit it!

That is vague and meaningless.



Name something.. ANYTHING DEFINITIVE she has been right about. No.. not something vague like politics or 'weird weather'.



The pole star is 'fine'. Next?



See above... ONE definitive thing... ONE! I can show you a hundred outright lies.



Nonsense. Nancy misrepresenting facts, as usual.



Didn't happen. Simple as that.



Didn't happen. Nancy lies or exaggerates about everything she uses as 'evidence', you know.



You mean, you have been led to THINK that many things are "odd". That's how Nancy works... mountains and mountains of innuendo.




Again, thanks for the discussion. I will check back.

Hi, Menow. You are feisty. Not always as rational as you'd like to think but sometimes you are ... and some people here are not careful testers, it's true.

Anyway, you are so feisty, are you cute, too? I'm kidding, more as a compliment-joke. Lively people are good; though you really are too quick to mistake I mean no offense; just being lighthearted. Don't worry, I'm not a weirdo.

I will say, though, even about Polaris in this photo, you not absolutely right here -- YET; we don't KNOW. You have raised good points, and thank you! But the fact is, we don't know the scale of the image.

Not to mention that if you really are being careful (reasonable), even if you feel smug, the content of your statements cannot be so quick to jump on people with a total-surety that the point is made. In this case, for one, it is not (yet) conclusively made. Of course, if all were normal for sure, we could assume that Polaris is probably in a fine place. But with the rest of the case still undeterminedly true or false, re. PX, we should not be too quick to think everything is normal even if the Pole Star is.

You are also too quick to suggest that the whole is silly if one part is silly. That is silly! :))

Now I realize how odd this whole PX seems; and how it may be a big waste of time to try to figure out each part, instead of assuming it's all silly, especially if one part seems not to hold water. (Seems; like this Pole Star discussion we've been having.)

But I have been a researcher into many things for too long to think that parts alone make the whole, and that misunderstandings and understandings take time to sort out. Sometimes lots of truth is in a position, but part of it was bunk or simply unclear.

Clare

Damn! I did it again: I didn't put my name in there.

I hate having a password screw-up so I have to enter my name manually every time.

No, you obviouosly have met very few astronomers. I know hundreds of amateur astronomers and most can draw star charts from memory (as can I). They can tell in an instant if anything were out of place.

The Sun is not "brighter and whiter". If it was, all outdoor photography would have had to be adjusted to compensate. hasn't happened. Ask any professional photographer.



Then you should have no problem taking photos of the marks and posting them, right?



Pictures of the dated witness marks, please. Oh.. you didn't actually make dated markes? Oh... that's what I already surmised!



Depends totally on the time of day/month/year. You are counting on vague recollections, NOT precise measurements.


During that period we were both outside in the sun and we looked up at various times to note where the sun was in relation to our prestaked corners. It was hot and tiring work, so from time to time we stopped to hydrate ourselves. We sat on the stone steps, often leaning on the metal railing, while we rested and drank fluids.

We often sat and ate our dinner while watching the sun go down between two low, distant hills. It pleased us to see that the chosen area was bathed in sunshine until the very last rays of sun disappeared from view. It was also apparent that the sun tracked over us and a bit to the northern part of the nearby town.

It was the habit of several of the tenants in my building to sit outside in the sunshine on MY SIDE of the building. They usually sat on the cement sidewalk or patio area near my flower bed. They told me how they looked forward to watching the sun go down in the evening, since the sunset was often quite beautiful.

We all had an unobstructed view of the sun as it set. The sun moved a bit left or right, but it always was bracketed by those two distant hills. There is a radio tower quite a distance to the left of those hills. At no time during the growing season did the sun ever go near that radio tower.

So you REMEMBER... But NOBODY has a dated image for reference? NOBODY? All that injoyment of glorious sunsets and NOBODY took a picture? NOBODY? EVER??



But the world's astonomers missed this monumental event. Suuurrree they did!



Ask an astronomer... ANY astronomer. How do I know you won't? You just 'know what you see...', right?

Then I stand corrected.

I have yet to see ONE who has really tested Nancy's claims.



Yet, you jump to the (irrational) supposition that it MIGHT show something wrong with the sky, due to the vast morass of innuendo with which Nancy has indoctrinated you.



See above. You think that all the innuedo MUST add up to somthing. Sorry, but zero plus zero equals... ZERO!



No, I have been around long enough to know it's all total bullshit. Apparently, you have not.



If that was the only bit of BS, it would be another thing altogether. It's not.... by a LOOOOOOONNGGGG shot!



So, is Earth halted in orbit?

At most any observing session, there are always those who can manualy swing a telescope to any target demanded using only a Telrad. We keep track of where the planets are from week to week (that's why the claims that the bright object in the west isn't Venus are so ludicrous...I've been watching Venus almost daily for over 10 years).

Why do you continue to avoid responding to this?:

Nancy claims a WOBBLE, not a new NCP. That image does not show any wobble. What you claim it shows does NOT support Nancy's claims.

[link to www.zetasquawk.com]

My point was not well stated. It was not that astronomers don't know where things are, it was that lay-people can easily make mistakes about it.

What a way to spend your last days on Earth. You will surely be dissapointed.

THIS IS THE DOOM OF MAY 15th!!! ZETATALK LIVE CHAT! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Time to stop bumping Nancy's thread. If you want to discuss any of this any more, come to the debunker thread. If you don't, we'll know you were just shilling for Nancy all along.

You are so quick to insult people's attempts to reconcile their ideas or feelings with those of your own! Tsk tsk. What I meant was that I was about to switch to a few other things which are strongly odd (in combination not only on their own), and I didn't want you to read quickly and think, "Hey, we were on the Pole Star and I made some points but now this fanatic is just running with other things and can't pause, to switch tracks, and be clear that we have to leave the Polaris issue, barring lack of total evidence about the scale of the photo."



Sadly, no. The evidence on the Chandler Wobble comes from Mainstream sources (though they would never suggest we were "torqued" from afar, over a few months, since though that would be possible, they would have no other suggestion of such a thing than this one event -- hence would not be likely to hypothesize it).

Also, though I cannot find it now (I tried but I had only one surfing success on this), the torque/movement of the Wobble was given in the Sorbonne French Astronomy site, for the whole period from 2004-2008. Now I cannot find it, and all they have now is a visual chart for the last year or so.

They do have other data, so the weird backwards-forwrds movement (not a STOP, but a significant back-forth arc with a point of return) might be "available" from them, but not in easy format. I have run into this with other things that I or someone who's a researcher into a subject DID have the expertise to read: the info can be available but hidden in un-easy forms, while the easy forms don't go back far enough. It's possible this is what they've done.

What you CAN find is of course Michae Mandeville's charts pulled from the official site (IERS): [link to www.michaelmandeville.com]

Now, the point I'm making isn't that there never for sure hasn't been such a thing before, but there hasn't been since tracking it. Second, it seems counterintuitive to reason that our wobble would go backwards: this isn't a trajectory of fluffball in water, it is the linear picture of a spinning top wobbling, which could go forward or sideways a bit, but BACKWARD over several months and then forward again??? So, I say, in combination with the Magnetic Pole beeline in the North, as if pushed maybe, and the pull-to-a-near-stop in the South, we are likely to be under something's influence.

But there's more.

However, I am saying there is no reason for you to be so sure any more than some of the people who are not careful thinkers who visit the site have to be sure without thinking about why. I think there is value in anecdote, too, but of course it would be nice if people kept absolute records of Sun-shadow placement shifts and such.

Having said that, if a side of a building used to be in Sun by a certain time of the year and now it is not fully ... that (if true) would not require careful measurement. It would be a prima facie argument. (It should be tested, true, to make sure the person telling it was accurate, but it only requires a couple of brain cells to understand that cannot be normal if it's true.)

And other than anecdote: you dismiss "weird weather". Well, I admit that some weather might have been weird without a PX threat, but record-doubling rain in a certain number of hours (Tennessee recently), the previous record of which was set after a hurricane, no less, so it's not "just another record" -- and the circumstances of the generator "failures" in Chile (I think it was), where the generators seemed to have been overloaded, and which is NOT normal (if true) ... and so on. In combination, these facts could indeed be a pile-up of not just freak occurrences, but a related set of anomalies. If it IS just a pile-up of freak occurrences, it is the oddest set of co-incidences I've ever heard of. (I mean, adding in other things, not just the two I've mentioned here.)



If you were right, then sure, PX might not be here. But it DID happen.



Oh now again, this is you NOT being smart, Menow. I mean even socially smart: only the dumbest would just take your word on that.

First, though one of the articles originally on it has been removed (scrubbed? or innocently taken off?) and was at [link to www.canada.com]

... that article was reproduced in many places. One was [link to the-rabbits-hole.com]

And before you say the article could have been a fake, just so's you know, the URL for the Edmonton Journal says, "Sorry, this story is not available" ... not that it MIGHT be a wrong link or MIGHT have been removed. Some say the latter, this one does not.

And the Rabbits Hole source also has clear diagrams (putatively from the article itself?) which show where and how quickly the movement is, compared to what's happening in the South at the same time.

But just for you, Menow, here is a definitely still on line article through CNN about it as well: [link to archives.cnn.com]





Thank you for the thank you.
:)

Oh ha ha ha. No, not a shill. Wish I had some money! Anyway, I don't want to get lost in the distracting too-quick-off-the-mark posters at the Debunking thread. They really are (as some people on all threads can be). We were discussing, and it is appropriate here.

I am not into pure attacks or quick-to-think-one's clever comments. I respect if people say something off-handed once in a while (we all do) but that's different than actually discussing the issues.

This is why debates have time for each, and no audience interruptions during. Some thoughts must be considered in full, and the rejoinders also, before any conclusion CAN be made with reason.

Clare

What I meant about the too-quick-off-the-mark thing was on the Debunker thread.

I've looked at it and most statements are not arguments around facts or claims, but poo-poohing, without backup.

Not saying all are ... nor is there no place for human reaction to what is felt to be nonsense, but in order to determine it all, we need space. Hence I'm here, not there.

I hadn't even thought of the bumping thing, fyi! :)) I am fairly new to blog-thread sites like this one. I am new to the way they work; I knew that, but don't think of it in context with tonight's discussion with you.

Funny, actually.

Clare

There was no "torqing" at all. Wild exaggeration on your part.




What makes you think such a wild claim could be true?



How could a distant planet(which can't be seen) cause such things when none of those effects are seen when other large planets pass near to Earth?



Funny how you can't provide any evidence of that.




"...could soon..."

Funny how what you said happened didn't really happen.


(snip)

Bullshit. Come there and mount an argument. What is the point of backing something up, when no one mounts an argument there? All Nancy's claims are pure bunk, and we have seen them all debunked over and over and over again. No need to repeat, unless asked specifially.

Menow -

I well remember when the Edmonton Journal published their front-page headline about the North Pole leaving Canada for Siberia. We discussed it for hours at the cafe. I'm a bit shocked you are totally denying it. Not good form, sir!

I also wish to point out that, unlike those you accuse of not making marks to record the supposed anomalistic behavior of the Sun and Moon, I did. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture to post for your viewing pleasure, but here's exactly what I did and it did prove (though only to a slight degree) the claim that there is some kind of wobble at work.

We had a large kitchen window, facing due east, and a white tiled floor that I was able to mark with a black Sharpie. Each morning I took the marker and, at 9:40am, marked a corner "L" where the sunlight came in and shone on the floor. Then, at 10:05am, I marked where it had moved to. Then I connected the two points. I did this for at least 2 weeks straight, long enough to determine if there was any anomalistic behavior. If one does that for every day of the year, one can define an analemma on the floor with a series of parallel lines, but suffice to say, this is what happened: once every several days, the line was NOT parallel, and this was indeed very clear. Usually the beginning points (at 9:45am) were often equidistant, but the endpoints (at 10:05am) were more often than not sharply out of whack with each other, which to me was a definitive proof of a wobble.

Lately, it has been more the behavior of my cats that's indicated the wobble is still alive and well; they like to bask in sunbeams in the morning, and they've been scratching at the venetian blinds in other rooms than the master bedroom (which faces south and usually has the best beams for basking) to get their sunbeams from. At first it was an irritant, having to go 'round to the other rooms to open the blinds high enough, but the "ah-hah!" moment dawned on me later.

Pity I didn't snap a picture of my kitchen floor back when I did this. These days I can't replicate it because I don't have a large enough tiled floor and window that faces enough sun to mark accordingly, but other readers might want to do this - and take a permanent picture record just to show you.

Regards. And no, I'm not interested in going to the debunker thread either. I'm not really interested in whether you believe or disbelieve what I have to say, but I do think it's worth saying anyway.

I dont give a fuck what ANYone says...nancy is right..she HAS to be...she is directly responsible for my "One dog a day" habit.

Cats are not only superb at detecting wobbles but you can also eat them if you run out of dog.

AS this leak becomes broader someone out there with lots of pull will step in...!0 billion liability is not enough

A few hundred is more like it

What is going on?

Do you really think you made those marks at PRECISELY the right time each and every day? I doubt that. Most people have other things to do. It would have taken a great degree of discipline and you have not described your time-keeping method at all.



Your cats??? Scratching at windows???

BWWWWAAAAAAAHHAHHAHAHAAA.A.A.A..A.A....!!!



I don't suppose you have considered the idea that the world's astronomers can't have missed something like what you claim to have seen?

that's a new wrinkle......cat scratching....

i would never have thought of that.....original...


.....

I have to give one more comment on this. It's always the same with these claims. There is the claim of large anomolies, like that the Sun is coming in a different window; is setting way far away from where it should... in other words, a discrepancy of MANY degrees. Then, you look more closely, but with questionable measuring methods like marks on the floor, but not being precise about the time, and find possible SMALL discrepancies. Then you claim that that the two are related and support each other. WRONG. Those two bits of alleged 'evidence' do NOT support each other. They contradict each other, but you just throw it on the pile of "gee... something is wrong..." innuendo.

Powerful alien entity message?

Public Message
Our Lady of Emmitsburg
To the World
through Gianna Sullivan
June 1, 2008

My dear little children, praised be Jesus!
Little ones, thank you for coming to pray. Know how much God loves you. He has given you tremendous gifts.
Children, for the last 20 years I have oftentimes spoken of “change.” I have told you that there is no time for fear; there is only time for change. You must know by now that I have recently spoken of an arising of “two suns.” When you see the two suns on the horizon, you must know that this is a time of change, a time of this new beginning about which I have spoken to you before. After you see the two suns, there is only a short time before you will see a tremendous change in weather. After this, as you know, there are more changes to come.
Children, God did not create only the Earth. God is the Creator of the cosmos, with its many galaxies, many orbits, different stars and different planets. God is the Creator! There are other planets like earth, far beyond your understanding.

I can tell you this: Even your governments and the Church authorities already have knowledge of the stars aligning and its implications upon you. You must not fear but must be prepared, primarily spiritually.

After awhile, you will see a time when there is another body in orbit around your solar system, coming between Earth and the Sun and leading to tremendous devastation. Approximately 60-70% of the world’s population, as you know it, will cease. Of those who survive, 60% of them could die of disease and starvation.

Prayer is the answer! Prayer can mitigate much of anything to come. Love and unity must be at the forefront, not survival of the fittest. But I can assure you that secretly those in governmental positions around the world and Church authorities all know. As your Mother and with you as children of God, it is my duty to forewarn you and to draw you to my Son for protection.

Look not too far before you will see two suns. Make my words known to all people: Life is important because God loves you. Those who are in control of the financial world think differently. But I your Mother know what true Life is!

So prepare, spiritually prepare. You will always be with my Son if you trust. God has a special plan, a new beginning! Look to Him; and do not fear, but love with all your heart.
I look to you, and I answer your prayers. Even if you are a sinner, and even if you were wrong, I come for your intercession. Now you must remove your “self” from your desires and look to help all people.
Peace to you (fading whisper).

Reflection by Fr. John B. Wang
Our Heavenly Mother is issuing an extremely serious warning concerning coming cataclysmic events as She outlines the scenario. It seems that our Creator will soon renew, remodel or reshape the earth and its inhabitants as predicted repeatedly for many years. Now the designated time has come. The process will be drastic and painful, but the end result will be glorious and paradisiacal. Death and destruction will be followed by a new world, a new society and a new humanity of love, faith, peace and harmony.
Our Mother and Queen tells us not to fear, but to trust in God’s Wisdom and Love. We should be concerned about our eternal salvation more than our temporary survival, our spiritual life more than our earthly existence. PRAYER IS THE ANSWER. So pray, pray, pray! Prayer can mitigate what is to come. Be spiritually ready and prepared. Spread this important message to help all people.

BP seems to catch a break as a mile-long tube siphons a large amount of leaking oil to a tanker from Gulf of Mexico seafloor.


I hope they can capitalize on it.