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BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 11:57 AM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
You gotta love the loudmouth, self-proclaimed experts on here advocating for the "nuclear option." Talking physics and shit like they know what the hell they're talking about. First of all, oil and gas come from porous rock formations, not some underground cavern. Fluid flow through a porous medium is fairly complex, but here's a basic principle that's easy to understand. When you make a hole through the porus medium, the potential for flow into that hole increases exponentially with the increase in the diameter of the hole or the increase in surface area exposed to lower pressures which create the potential for flow. That is why fracturing is so effective; creating greater surface area from which the oil/gas can flow into the well.

Now, what does a nuclear explosion do? Creates massive heat and a shock wave. Even in the little video animation, it shows fractures in the rock. So you have a massive release of energy that creates a cavern in the rock [link to ludb.clui.org] and you have fractures extending out from the cavern allowing whatever fluids from the layers of rock impacted by the explosion to flow into the cavern and between the layers of rock. Does this really sound like a good idea to anyone??
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:02 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
check this out



As part of the ongoing federal response to the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, EPA today established a website to inform the public about the spill’s impact on the environment and the health of nearby residents. The website – [link to www.epa.gov] – will contain data from EPA’s ongoing air monitoring along with other information about the agency’s activities in the region. Also today, Administrator Jackson joined Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to tour the region. The Administrator will spend the next 36 hours visiting with community groups and meeting EPA staff responding to the spill.

Additional information on the broader response from the U.S. Coast Guard and other responding agencies is available at: [link to www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 340451

The kill method I'd most like to see: Take Jante Napolitano, Ken Salazar, that idiot-asshole Admiral what's-the-fuck-his-name, and the lying c-word Lisa Jackson and shove them all into the riser pipe... I'm sure it'll do nothing to stop the oil, but I'll feel a hell of a lot better and then all the gulf sea creatures wouldn't have died in vain.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:03 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Also, there would OBVIOUSLY be no escape of radiation into the gulf waters. It would be far far too deep in the ground for it to breach the surface. Even if it was detonated in the water it wouldn't do shit to harm you.

Do you know HOW MANY fucking nuclear weapons, huge ones, much bigger than would be used in this, were detonated for test purposed all over the planet? Yet, we are all still here.


Yes, we're still here, along with CANCER(S) reaching epidemic proportions globally.

Actually, back in the '60s there were a couple of nukes set off underground not more than a couple hundred miles from the blowout.
[link to ludb.clui.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 983511



on land!

in a salt mine!
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:05 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
we have the power of the atom since years, yet it's called unsafe...like prehistoric man afraid of fire before they explored it's many uses...
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
A 'massive' 60 Meg nuke should be put down there.. ready to blow.. which would make a 'mess' of things.. 'forcing' the aliens to intervene.. to stop the nuke & seal up the leak!

mad enuff for ya..?! lol

5a
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I just love the new BP logo. It should go viral, because BP will hate it to go viral:

[link to www.dump.com]

Send it to everyone you know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 986631


That will make the main stream for sure.
laugh
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:09 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
A Nuke is only an option of last resort. Why? Because what do you do if the Nuke fails? The only option left once you try a Nuke is .... another Nuke! The relief well(s) would no longer be viable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 979162


Yes this is true and I'm confident the current operation will be a success.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:12 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I can't find a working camera ... anyone else?
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:21 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
It's easy to point fingers and blame someone else for this tragedy!

But, we are all responsible for this.

Every time we pump gas into our vehicles and anything else.
Every time we use any petroleum based products like most plastics.

We support the BPs of the world. If we stopped using oil based products they would all go out of business.

Pumping oil out of the Earth should be criminalized!

It's like leaching blood from your mother!

Mother Earth.

Mother Earth meant for the oil to stay within it's depths, just as blood is meant to stay within our bodies.

We in our greed have been sucking this substance out of the Earth.

What for? So we can live in more comfort than we need. So we can make more money for objects we don't really need.

For satisfying our insatiable Egos!

This is a sign, that enough is enough!!!

We are being told to wake up or we will lose our home the Earth. This is nothing compared to what bigger disasters await us if we don't act now!

It is all in our own hands!

If you don't feed evil, evil will die!

So stop pointing at the evil and blaming it, while constantly feeding it with the other hand.

Just stop feeding it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 986370


Listen, you blathering fool, you want to live like a medieval serf go right ahead! You are obviously mentally unstable with your pagan drivel about Gaia/mother earth, leeching blood etc.

Go eat your mud pies, shit in the woods, drink and wash in a creek if you can find one, huddle in your hut during blizzards and offer sacrifices to your pagan gods, but for Christ's sake, let the rest of us be!
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:21 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I have a couple of questions about this.

First, if it were possible to drill a hole deep enough to accommodate a nuclear warhead, why not just drill the relief well instead?

If you watched the little movie in this thread they showed how a nuke was lowered into an adjacent wellhole and detonated, but you have to drill very deep in order to do this.

If you CAN drill that deep, why not just proceed with the relief well operation, it seems way safer and more conventional then detonating a bomb.

You will notice that the movie looks to be quite dated. Maybe they really didn't know how to make relief wells at that time and this was an early experiment in capping an out of control well. Maybe it was entirely a propaganda film produced to show positive uses for nuclear arms. Who knows? Why did the announcer have to have a Russian accent? Ridiculous.

My second question: Simmons bases his claims that there is a worse leak 5 or 6 miles away on heavy plumes of oil in that location. In fact, he goes on to state that the oil slick is the size of 3 states. Now how could it ever be possible in a slick of this magnitude to precisely locate the source of the leak based on plumes? The oil is not staying stationary directly above its source, after all. The oil is floating all over the place, naturally. How can you determine the precise location of another leak based on the location of a plume of oil? You can't. That is just ONE nonsensical statement from the nonstop gusher of crazy talk coming from this man's mouth.

I'm not saying that there isn't another leak far worse than the first leak. I'm just saying that they didn't find it based on plumes of oil. I'm saying that if the additional leak exists they know because they caused it. I'm saying that they know because they know the relief well blew out.
That really is the only logical explanation.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:23 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Here's a link to an earlier article about the relief well:
[link to www.bloomberg.com]
Krispy71

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05/30/2010 12:36 PM

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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Surely...

As far as Simmons goes and his information -- and this lake of oil -- BP may not have known about this until this last week when the information became known. As of yet, the government/BP may still not know for sure what is going on.

So far -- this can all easily fit together -- simmons/BP - etc... surely the next week or two will tell.

On a side note -- as I watched the live feeds tonight -- something happened and the BOP/Riser started to shake -- almost as if there was a small quake.

Two Rovers who were holding on to the BOP -- backed off very quickly.

I taped it and reviewed it many times -- that riser pipe was bouncing around in a big way -- and the plumes from the bent riser were noticably different during this time.
 Quoting: TraderRob



Hey Rob ,

That must have been when a couple of us watched the feed and said that the BOP was moving, it looked as if they were moving it. You amongst others at first said it could not have been so coz of the weight of that machinery ...
but reading you say about a possible EQ-tremor-ground shake-up that makes sence and explains what we all withnessed !


Could this heve been a real EQ, or more the ground reacting on the release of so much oil and gas ?
In the GOM there were a couple of strange mysterious EQ's a few years ago, there are faultlines in that sea !

We are realy doomed if all this (drilling and pumping and maybe nucking) is going to affect the plates and the strenght of the walls of the oilfield ... What if it all collapses and bringing us into a chain of events hiding
bump
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
You gotta love the loudmouth, self-proclaimed experts on here advocating for the "nuclear option." Talking physics and shit like they know what the hell they're talking about. First of all, oil and gas come from porous rock formations, not some underground cavern. Fluid flow through a porous medium is fairly complex, but here's a basic principle that's easy to understand. When you make a hole through the porus medium, the potential for flow into that hole increases exponentially with the increase in the diameter of the hole or the increase in surface area exposed to lower pressures which create the potential for flow. That is why fracturing is so effective; creating greater surface area from which the oil/gas can flow into the well.

Now, what does a nuclear explosion do? Creates massive heat and a shock wave. Even in the little video animation, it shows fractures in the rock. So you have a massive release of energy that creates a cavern in the rock [link to ludb.clui.org] and you have fractures extending out from the cavern allowing whatever fluids from the layers of rock impacted by the explosion to flow into the cavern and between the layers of rock. Does this really sound like a good idea to anyone??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 983511

clappa
deepend

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05/30/2010 12:40 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
nuke would cause a massive tital wave, coastal cities gone.
^^ gravity is a harsh reality. ^^
deepend

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05/30/2010 12:41 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
nuke would cause a massive tital wave, coastal cities gone.
 Quoting: deepend


Game end.
^^ gravity is a harsh reality. ^^
HEBGB

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05/30/2010 12:41 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Insert a pipe that is the length of the well.

Pump white phosphorus down the pipe mixed with nano thermite.

Both of those do not require oxygen to burn and they burn at thousands of degrees. This (in theory) would melt the pipe and surrounding rock into a permanent plug by fusing them all together.

Opinions?
DO not buy BP, Castrol or AMOCO Gas, Oil or other BP petroleum products.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 12:41 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Yes, those good old Russians. They've always been stewards of the environment.


And USofA, the #1 polluter on the planet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 359945


Say what you will, but the Russians are achieving their pipeline goals by sitting around conference tables with other nations and making $ deals and not, ala USSA, invading and destroying sovereign nations to STEAL their natural resources. There is a significant difference.

By the way, how much FUEL are all these US military invasions & occupations USING and what's the cost?
JustineCase

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05/30/2010 12:51 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I can't find a working camera ... anyone else?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 981740



[link to www.bp.com]
Krispy71

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05/30/2010 12:55 PM

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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Anyone who has vere watched the movie -"The Dam Busters' will know the incredible power generated by an underwater explosion. True story of British attempts to blow up the enemies dams. They accomplished it by creating a bomb in a barrel. The barrel would be released in low light and literally skip te water unil it hit the dam wall where it would then sink. It was only detonated when it was deep down and utilised the incredible pressure wave from the water to literally blow up the dam face. None of their surface bombs could achieve this.

A nuke under water in such an already unstable area will have devastating effects! And not necessarily good!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 985651


BARRELS under water ...

Yesterday someone took a screenshot of these barrels, and asked the question WHAT ARE THEY DOING THERE?

[link to www.mijnalbum.nl]


.... OMG ...
(maybe and hopefully they are just harmless and not "going-to-be-bombs")
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 01:06 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
The spill can't be stopped. First there is more than one leak, second they can't even stop the leak at the BOP.

Nobody knows the consequences of nuking it. Does it make things worse ? Nobody knows.

This is not fixable.

What needs to be done is the following:

1) drill pipelines as fast and as many as possible into the same oil pocket and suck out the oil.
2) spend the money from this oil in cleaning up the gulf.

This oil spill will be going on for years. Focus on cleaning up the place and sucking out that oil. Make BP pay. AND DO IT NOW !!
 Quoting: What needs to be done 958271


Better idea:

Drill another hole joining the first one in a couple of hundreds of meters below the surface.

The oil will then spill into two holes. Suck this oil up, the spill should decrease.

SHIT WE NEED SOME IDEAS AND NOT THIS FINGER POINTING AND WHINING. GET YOUR FINGER OUT OF YOUR ASS AND ACT. SHIT.

I always thought americans are people taking things into their hand not afraid of risks and willing to solve problems and obstacles they face.

This seems to have changed under Obama. He is rather busy praising islam
[link to edition.cnn.com]

Shit you are headless and clueless. SHIT SHIT SHIT !!!
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 01:12 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
You gotta love the loudmouth, self-proclaimed experts on here advocating for the "nuclear option." Talking physics and shit like they know what the hell they're talking about. First of all, oil and gas come from porous rock formations, not some underground cavern. Fluid flow through a porous medium is fairly complex, but here's a basic principle that's easy to understand. When you make a hole through the porus medium, the potential for flow into that hole increases exponentially with the increase in the diameter of the hole or the increase in surface area exposed to lower pressures which create the potential for flow. That is why fracturing is so effective; creating greater surface area from which the oil/gas can flow into the well.

Now, what does a nuclear explosion do? Creates massive heat and a shock wave. Even in the little video animation, it shows fractures in the rock. So you have a massive release of energy that creates a cavern in the rock [link to ludb.clui.org] and you have fractures extending out from the cavern allowing whatever fluids from the layers of rock impacted by the explosion to flow into the cavern and between the layers of rock. Does this really sound like a good idea to anyone??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 983511



This guy and myself. The only nonshills or normals here.
This guy and me.
dr know
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05/30/2010 01:13 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
answer to junkshot failure.....

golf balls and pieces of plastic are too small to plug the holes in the containment vesses... so the ANSWER IS>>>>


send down the pipe spring loaded carbon steel umbrellas that deploy when they reach the opening of the pipes distal end... the geometry can be anything they want it to be and the metal umbrellas will withstand the pressure and wont deform even under extreem pressures. please foward to BP.
Krispy71

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05/30/2010 01:14 PM

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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
watch this video ... it's an interview of Mike Williams (chief electronics engineer on the Deepwater Horizon) ... was recorded by 60 minutes ....

on the video from about 4 minutes into the footage, Mike Williams says that they were drilling a well nearby and because they were told to 'speed things up', the well fractured and they abandoned that well and started drilling a new well nearby

so perhaps this is the well that is nearby and leaking heavily?


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 975904


bump
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 01:15 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I have a couple of questions about this.

First, if it were possible to drill a hole deep enough to accommodate a nuclear warhead, why not just drill the relief well instead?

If you watched the little movie in this thread they showed how a nuke was lowered into an adjacent wellhole and detonated, but you have to drill very deep in order to do this.

If you CAN drill that deep, why not just proceed with the relief well operation, it seems way safer and more conventional then detonating a bomb.

You will notice that the movie looks to be quite dated. Maybe they really didn't know how to make relief wells at that time and this was an early experiment in capping an out of control well. Maybe it was entirely a propaganda film produced to show positive uses for nuclear arms. Who knows? Why did the announcer have to have a Russian accent? Ridiculous.

My second question: Simmons bases his claims that there is a worse leak 5 or 6 miles away on heavy plumes of oil in that location. In fact, he goes on to state that the oil slick is the size of 3 states. Now how could it ever be possible in a slick of this magnitude to precisely locate the source of the leak based on plumes? The oil is not staying stationary directly above its source, after all. The oil is floating all over the place, naturally. How can you determine the precise location of another leak based on the location of a plume of oil? You can't. That is just ONE nonsensical statement from the nonstop gusher of crazy talk coming from this man's mouth.

I'm not saying that there isn't another leak far worse than the first leak. I'm just saying that they didn't find it based on plumes of oil. I'm saying that if the additional leak exists they know because they caused it. I'm saying that they know because they know the relief well blew out.
That really is the only logical explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 530536
...
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05/30/2010 01:16 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
I'm on dial-up so most of the videos don't work for me.

I've seen a few that were compatible with my crappy system, not many.

I want to ask, have they shown any images of the sunken drilling rig, itself?

How far away is it from where they've shown the leak footage?


And does annyone know what depth the OTHER leak is, that's '5 or 6 miles' away?

Any films of that?

Doubt it, but wondering.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 01:17 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
the reason there a nuclear option is bcuz it might be the only way to stop the leak.if i was in charge i would have nuked it weeks ago.they have never tried to stop a leak like this before which is why the box and the killshot failed.this is the perfect example of using a nuke in a positive way other then for war.


If you'd been in charge the sane thing to do right away would have been to send out a fleet of tankers to suck up all that black gold they kept telling us was "running out" and "peaking" which has always been a lie, but now it's soooo obviously a LIE it must be embarrasing.

The Power Control Group Maniacs agree with you that nuking underwater, on a fault line, is the solution. Birds of a feather...


Peak oil has never been a lie. If anything underscores the gulf spill catastrophe, it should be that we are indeed on the brink of Peak oil. Which should more accurately be called cheap oil.

BP is not drilling under a mile of water because it's fun. They are doing it because all the easy to reach stuff on land is gone.

Visit any of the oil drilling forums and read what real people who work in the industry say. They ALL say peak oil is true. Only on a conspiracy forum is peak oil scoffed at.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 935690


Peak oil is another artful fabrication just like the "rarity of diamonds" and soon TPTB will convince you of peak water and peak air, which they, in fact, might bring about. "Modern Russian and Ukrainian scientists have extensively proven is that petroleum is abiotic."

However, since it well serves the greedy designs of TPTB, it continues to be promoted. Clearly, it still fools some of the people, some of the time.
Anonymous Coward
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05/30/2010 01:22 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
You gotta love the loudmouth, self-proclaimed experts on here advocating for the "nuclear option." Talking physics and shit like they know what the hell they're talking about. First of all, oil and gas come from porous rock formations, not some underground cavern. Fluid flow through a porous medium is fairly complex, but here's a basic principle that's easy to understand. When you make a hole through the porus medium, the potential for flow into that hole increases exponentially with the increase in the diameter of the hole or the increase in surface area exposed to lower pressures which create the potential for flow. That is why fracturing is so effective; creating greater surface area from which the oil/gas can flow into the well.

Now, what does a nuclear explosion do? Creates massive heat and a shock wave. Even in the little video animation, it shows fractures in the rock. So you have a massive release of energy that creates a cavern in the rock [link to ludb.clui.org] and you have fractures extending out from the cavern allowing whatever fluids from the layers of rock impacted by the explosion to flow into the cavern and between the layers of rock. Does this really sound like a good idea to anyone??



This guy and myself. The only nonshills or normals here.
This guy and me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 530536
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 530536
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05/30/2010 01:22 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
You gotta love the loudmouth, self-proclaimed experts on here advocating for the "nuclear option." Talking physics and shit like they know what the hell they're talking about. First of all, oil and gas come from porous rock formations, not some underground cavern. Fluid flow through a porous medium is fairly complex, but here's a basic principle that's easy to understand. When you make a hole through the porus medium, the potential for flow into that hole increases exponentially with the increase in the diameter of the hole or the increase in surface area exposed to lower pressures which create the potential for flow. That is why fracturing is so effective; creating greater surface area from which the oil/gas can flow into the well.

Now, what does a nuclear explosion do? Creates massive heat and a shock wave. Even in the little video animation, it shows fractures in the rock. So you have a massive release of energy that creates a cavern in the rock [link to ludb.clui.org] and you have fractures extending out from the cavern allowing whatever fluids from the layers of rock impacted by the explosion to flow into the cavern and between the layers of rock. Does this really sound like a good idea to anyone??



This guy and myself. The only nonshills or normals here.
This guy and me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 530536
deepend

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05/30/2010 01:24 PM
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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Here is what you do.

Thread the pipe below the leak maybe 10 feet. Cut the pipe above the thread. place a pipe that fits the thread on the outside of the spraying pipe (if this is difficult, they have pipes that will clamp onto the ouside of the pipe). Turn off the cutoff valve in the new pipe.

I find it ridiculous to believe that this can't be handled in this manner.


There are also fuses from the military that will cut right through the pipe in seconds. Cut the pipe about 3000 feet down. cut the pipe there and the ground pressure should fill in blocking the oil flow.



Originally thought the nuke idea was a good one. You do that, end of story for several of the states due to massive tital wave. Texas and Florida would be wiped off the face of the earth.
^^ gravity is a harsh reality. ^^
Project_Deimos

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05/30/2010 01:24 PM

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Re: BREAKING! Simmons Calls For Obama to Kick Out BP; Military To Nuke Oil Leak
Anyone who has vere watched the movie -"The Dam Busters' will know the incredible power generated by an underwater explosion. True story of British attempts to blow up the enemies dams. They accomplished it by creating a bomb in a barrel. The barrel would be released in low light and literally skip te water unil it hit the dam wall where it would then sink. It was only detonated when it was deep down and utilised the incredible pressure wave from the water to literally blow up the dam face. None of their surface bombs could achieve this.

A nuke under water in such an already unstable area will have devastating effects! And not necessarily good!!


BARRELS under water ...

Yesterday someone took a screenshot of these barrels, and asked the question WHAT ARE THEY DOING THERE?

[link to www.mijnalbum.nl]


.... OMG ...
(maybe and hopefully they are just harmless and not "going-to-be-bombs")
 Quoting: Krispy71


Those are buoyancy devices to hold up hoses so they don't kink if I recall
"There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know."

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