HOLY FUCKING SHIT: TURKISH SHIP OF FREEDOM FLOTILLA UNDER ATTACK!!!!!! 20 PEOPLE KILLED IN TOTAL - 50+ INJURED!!!!!! ERDOGAN REPORTEDLY CALLS IN AS!!!

The usage of metal "Poles and sticks".

Please, next time.. Use your.. brain part, not the ass part.


yea.

next time i will use my brain, and if i see someone hugging and lifting a fucking METAL POLE that is TWICE a human's height,

i will unlock my mp5 and gun him down.



these two statements pose a contradiction in between themselves by the way.


if you use your brain, you dont do the latter part. if you do it, you cant possibly have a brain.

as an american i can see we own this land now because we kicked the pig shit out of the injuns. if the dirty foot washers in palestine cant win a fight then guess what.... they dont belong there. plain and fuckin simple. but thats never good enuff for a hippie. a hippie that will cry about a dying plant and not give it water.


The hippies were right about many things. Go smoke a joint and listen to the Grateful Dead, it will help you forget about your anger and hatred.

Does Israel have any concept of what is excessive force?

For conspiracy theorists, some of you are being naive as hell when it comes to the media coverage and reporting this event. WE ALL KNOW THAT ISRAEL IS A PR MACHINE. They spin the news like crazy. Me and others were up all night, watching the live feeds, and we saw those people being attacked. Regardless of whether they had a weapon on board, they had a right to defend themselves in international waters. How do we know that it wasn't after a soldier starting shooting that the aid workers started fighting with them? A one minute video released doesn't show or prove anything.

I still stand with the Flotilla and the rest of the world against the evil Zionist state that is controlling Israel right now. Even if they did provoke the attack, it's great because everyone saw how awful Israel can be. Most of their inhumane actions get swept under the rug, but there's no hiding this.

Why didn't Israel intercept the ship in it's own waters?

Why didn't Israel intercept the ship in it's own waters?

they went aronud our waters, and headed from the internation water to the baracade israel has put on gaza.
By trying to get threw the baracade they broke the rules, And therefore the reason for the take-over on the ships.

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

OH WAIT, NOW WE ARE EVIL.
haha.

oh so the video, i linked in the upper part of the page, shows someone failing in lifting a pole?. Or dose it show many people beating soldiers with metal sticks?.

Oh, and talk about ironic, Isent it ironic a country who made a genocide to another nation,Whene turkey Murderd 1.5 milion armanaians, and dosent admin it untill this very own day, Accuses another country with war crimes?.
Funny eh?.

Oh wait, now your going to denied the genocide too!

first, i myself wouldnt give a flying fuck about whether someone names this a holocaust, a genocide, or a stupid and brutal forced migration. i basically dont care. i wasnt alive then, my father or his father werent alive either. i dont have a zilch of responsibility in that.

however, im a history hobbyist. therefore, identifying events correctly is an itch for me. so, due to that, im unable to label this as a genocide, nomatter who says what, due to technical definitions of the term and examples of history. st barthelemy's massacre in france in 16th century was a genocide, holocaust was a genocide, but, this does not fall under the same definition.

also what im afraid is, if we label this as a genocide, it will lessen the importance of the word and its definition.

otherwise i have no hesitations saying that due to stupidity and naivete and brutality of the ottoman government, 150-200 k armenians perished on the roads during a forced migration, and this was a bad, bad, very bad thing. i am by no means a nationalist, and do not have the withdrawals from 'admitting' to anything.

that said, lets get a dose of history :

Time : 1915
Country : Ottoman Empire
Ruling Party : Imperialist Young Turks (militaristic)
Period : 2nd year of world war I
Place of events : Eastern anatolia, in between ottoman empire core and russia
Standard of living : SHIT poor.

Shit poor is the focus here. SO poor that Ottoman Government in istanbul was unable to give its 30.000 strong army in eastern anatolia proper winter garments, and all 30.000 of them froze to death without firing a shot, just months before, in the same year, 1915.

People in eastern anatolia was even POORER. so go imagine.

At this point in time war was being waged in eastern anatolia, the front was in between ottoman empire and russia. Russia was using the minorities as a strategic weapon, instigating rebellions and supporting them with promises of independent states. (never fulfilled, as the full occupation of caucasus shows)

Armenians were also one of the minorities that were being exploited in that regard. There were numerous armenian 'militias', which have taken up to mountains, and fighting a 'war of freedom'.

the above words are in quotes for a very specific reason :

those 'militias' were not only armenian, but there were also kurdish, turkish, and other ethnicities doing the same. however they were indistinguishable from highwaymen.

highwaymen lifestyle has been a way of living for around 500 years in anatolia. dissented groups would take to mountains, generally rightfully, but also wrongfully, inventing a 'cause' or 'reason', and then living off by robbing, raiding, or exthorting money from the rural countryside. robin hoods, without all the glory goes with it.

this is not something that was particular - it was a general occurrence. and actually that kind of thing ended in the 20st century, 1940-50s. in 1915 it was so far from ending.

one particular feature of these kind of gangs (im not using the word militia anymore), was that they wouldnt discern much about anything - an armenian gang could easily massacre an armenian village which wouldnt give it supplies, as well as a turkish gang massacring turks, kurds kurds, vice versa. basically these were kinda small 'beys', feudal lords of their fashion. submit or die.

this is of course exonerating the small number of militias from all ethnicities, which really fought for a free independent country of their own. HOWEVER, none of these militias were exempt from the brutal methods of those highwaymen - all ethnicities didnt see any issue with slaughtering any other ethnicity, even if they were not highwaymen themselves.

armenian gangs were the most successful and numerous among these gangs. they were quite disruptive to the war in E. anatolia, just like russia had wanted.

judging the situation at hand, the young turk party (a proto fascist party) in istanbul decided to fix the issue by forcing a migration of armenians from eastern anatolia to other places, so they wouldnt be able to give armenian gangs support. this is actually a measure that has been repeatedly taken against any kind of such event, and in cases of terrorism recently. they weren the first to decide that and they wont be the last.

BUT

there were two things missed - first, forced migration was ordered in the middle of winter. - remember how an entire ottoman army itself (comprised of turks armenians, kurds arabs, whatever ethnicity was in the empire) froze to death just a few months ago in the same zone - . second, people of the land was even poorer.

during the forced march 150-200.000 armenians perished on the road due to winter conditions, lack of supplies, sickness and so on.

it was beyond stupid for the istanbul government to do that. had they waited a few months, until summer to do the forced march, today we wouldnt be talking about the 'armenian genocide'. it was beyond stupid and uncalculated of them, but then again, istanbul government has always been detached from the realities of the citizens of the empire.

now, lets see why this brutal act is not a genocide. first, a definition of genocide :

quoting wikipedia :


"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.[1]

While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[2]"

basically, a genocide is the intent to eradicate a certain group or nationality or ethnicity or religion or whatever in society.

lets see now,

while all of these are happening, armenians in istanbul, western anatolia, balkans, elsewhere in ottoman empire are continuing their lives undisturbed.

leave aside being undisturbed, especially armenians in istanbul are living a high life, since trade and manufacturing has been the monopoly of minorities in ottoman empire, traditionally.

so, greeks, armenians, jews, are running the business world of the empire, and living in mansions in istanbul.

no armenian elsewhere gets their daily routine disturbed during this 'genocide'.

now lets see, its 1915, the world is at war, and there is NOTHING stopping the proto fascist young turk party from killing every other armenian in the empire. because the country is already poor, noone has any kind of weapon that they could stand against the imperial armies.

so, had the istanbul government intended, there would be no living armenian left anywhere in empire.

therefore, for those who cannot establish the conclusion from the above :

IT IS NOT A GENOCIDE BECAUSE ARMENIANS ELSEWHERE IN THE EMPIRE DIDNT EVEN HAD TO CHANGE THEIR DAILY ROUTINE, AND THOSE IN EASTERN ANATOLIA WAS FORCED TO MIGRATE.

they didnt have their house barged into and shot on sight, or burned in furnaces so that eacn and every one of them would die.

that is what constitutes a genocide, you proceed with eradicating EVERY member of an ethnic group. you dont force them to migration.

i must add, labeling this as genocide is very disrespectful for the people who lost their lives in real genocides that happened in soviet russia under stalin and germany under hitler.

note that the armenians in turkey do not label this as a genocide either. only the armenians in west want to label this as a genocide, and equate it with -god forbid - holocaust.


................

on another sidenote, the armenian lobby in usa says that 1-2 million armenians died in the 'genocide'.

beyond logical, since eastern anatolia didnt have THAT much population so that it could have 1-2 million armenians die on the road. for that to happen, eastern anatolia would have to be totally wiped out.

Does Israel have any concept of what is excessive force?


no. never in their history. it is one of the things which constantly fuels hatred and retaliation from arabs.

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

OH WAIT, NOW WE ARE EVIL.
haha.

oh so the video, i linked in the upper part of the page, shows someone failing in lifting a pole?. Or dose it show many people beating soldiers with metal sticks?.


Oh, and talk about ironic, Isent it ironic a country who made a genocide to another nation,Whene turkey Murderd 1.5 milion armanaians, and dosent admin it untill this very own day, Accuses another country with war crimes?.
Funny eh?.

Oh wait, now your going to denied the genocide too!

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

OH WAIT, NOW WE ARE EVIL.
haha.



is that new news to you????

Why didn't Israel intercept the ship in it's own waters?

they went aronud our waters, and headed from the internation water to the baracade israel has put on gaza.
By trying to get threw the baracade they broke the rules, And therefore the reason for the take-over on the ships.


oh fuck off.

12 european nations say, they STAYED off your waters, and even moved further into international waters when your fucking zionist commandos neared them.

12 european nations, and israel.

who do i believe ?

Dose turky going to admin the genocide of the armanian?


No,. never in their history they would do somthing like that.

Nice format eh?.

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

OH WAIT, NOW WE ARE EVIL.
haha.

[youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]

OH WAIT, NOW WE ARE EVIL.
haha.



is that new news to you????


oh look, germany talking, ironic, two countrys who Make genocides around the globe are attacking israel for defending itself. I think im starting to like it.

Go germany, go turky!.
Halerius.

oh so the video, i linked in the upper part of the page, shows someone failing in lifting a pole?. Or dose it show many people beating soldiers with metal sticks?.


Oh, and talk about ironic, Isent it ironic a country who made a genocide to another nation,Whene turkey Murderd 1.5 milion armanaians, and dosent admin it untill this very own day, Accuses another country with war crimes?.
Funny eh?.

Oh wait, now your going to denied the genocide too!



Maybe you are a little confused? Israel doesn't recognize the Armenian genocide, either.

im not confused, they dont, you know why?.

Before this, israel and turky had a rather good relationship (before two years), If israel would say that the armanian gencoide happend, the relation ship would have ended, leaving israel here without a friendly country.
Incase the relationship with turky ends now, they will admit it within a week.

And politicly in another way, how did israel touch turky's bad point?, Dident you notice israel voting 10 points for armenia and armenia voting 8 points for israel?, you think its Simple luck that got israel to vote that way while their in shit relationship with turky?

No, now you will say that they randomly liked eachother.

Dose turky going to admin the genocide of the armanian?


No,. never in their history they would do somthing like that.

Nice format eh?.



turky doesnt need to 'admin' anything, because it doesnt 'deni' anything.

read the post above moron.

Media has ignored this, Subaru ad provided financial help to accomplish the task.
Sammy get your script right, those were boxcutters not knives.



Boxcutters, Including commando knifes, Kitchen knifes, Peper sprays,Molotov bottles, a pistol stolen from a soldier, Metal Poles and sticks.

I Can add a few more if you'd like.

im not confused, they dont, you know why?.

Before this, israel and turky had a rather good relationship (before two years), If israel would say that the armanian gencoide happend, the relation ship would have ended, leaving israel here without a friendly country.
Incase the relationship with turky ends now, they will admit it within a week.

And politicly in another way, how did israel touch turky's bad point?, Dident you notice israel voting 10 points for armenia and armenia voting 8 points for israel?, you think its Simple luck that got israel to vote that way while their in shit relationship with turky?

No, now you will say that they randomly liked eachother.



oh fuck off.

relations were good, until you elected that radical extremist government on top of you.

wait, it was a fucking coalition government which took power by a narrow margin and a lot of maneuvering.

dont defend fucking extremists.

Turky, denies the Armanian genocide they have made.
Period.

their such an extermists, Taking injured men with army helicopters to the hospitals after they attacked them is soo cruel and mean.

Give me a brake.

Media has ignored this, Subaru ad provided financial help to accomplish the task.
Media has ignored this, Subaru ad provided financial help to accomplish the task.
Sammy get your script right, those were boxcutters not knives.



Boxcutters, Including commando knifes, Kitchen knifes, Peper sprays,Molotov bottles, a pistol stolen from a soldier, Metal Poles and sticks.

I Can add a few more if you'd like.


Actually if you think it adds value to your script you can call it anything you wish. For those that witness the entire thing unfold until communication was cut saw exactly what happened. An infant was shot and really there was no excuse for that, then add all the other mis-information being said and you see a picture unfolding that is more lies than truths.

I do not have to stand accountable for my thoughts, bringing a boxcutter to a gun fight would be stupid on anyones part. But defending yourself with one would really be a different story.

im not confused, they dont, you know why?.

Before this, israel and turky had a rather good relationship (before two years), If israel would say that the armanian gencoide happend, the relation ship would have ended, leaving israel here without a friendly country.
Incase the relationship with turky ends now, they will admit it within a week.

And politicly in another way, how did israel touch turky's bad point?, Dident you notice israel voting 10 points for armenia and armenia voting 8 points for israel?, you think its Simple luck that got israel to vote that way while their in shit relationship with turky?

No, now you will say that they randomly liked eachother.



oh fuck off.

relations were good, until you elected that radical extremist government on top of you.

wait, it was a fucking coalition government which took power by a narrow margin and a lot of maneuvering.

dont defend fucking extremists.



their such an extermists, Taking injured men with army helicopters to the hospitals after they attacked them is soo cruel and mean.

Give me a brake.

well, tell ya what buddy...keep upthat attitude, theres some events right around the corner prescribed EXACTLY for you and yours!


have you forgotten that war has given us everything we have. even the computers we are using to bicker off topic like? i thank germany for what they did. if not for you guys we never would have made it to space when we did. but if you still wanna say you're country sucks go ahead.


Personal computers were invented by hippies in California dropping acid. It's a fact, look it up.

it turned into a gun fight after a muslim "Humonitarian" Citizen of turkey stole a gun from one soldier and used it to shoot the other soldiers.

And you forgot about one part, "Untill communication was cut", Communitycasion was cut before the attack.