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NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel

 
Bazork!

User ID: 929725
Turkey
05/31/2010 05:14 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel



anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 811621
United States
05/31/2010 05:18 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nukes? Under guidance of the US, right? Just like Holland...


earlier.

many speculate and suspect that nukes were acquired from ex soviet republics.
 Quoting: Bazork!


Ha Ha..I got one too
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
05/31/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel



 Quoting: Bazork!


dnt worry turks u wont be on your own, you have your brothers side by side the persians.



Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Like having a card buried on the bottom...wait till the hand is called
DanfromtheHills

User ID: 945238
United States
05/31/2010 05:21 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Sabers a rattlin'
"Nothing to see here, go back to sheep..." --- AC 1251379
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:21 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I think this means Turkey braking off from NATO
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 987582
United States
05/31/2010 05:22 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
WW3 5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770865

Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:23 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I think this means Turkey braking off from NATO
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811621


it means nato breaking off.

the ship of a sovereign nato member was attacked and its nationals was killed in international waters.

casus belli grade act of war, also an act of piracy.

as per nato treaty articles any nation has the right to call the organization to retaliate. if organization doesnt, its void and null, and breaks up.
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:23 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987582


yeah.

israel is the only country with nukes and hides it from the IAIE.
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:24 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.


yeah.

israel is the only country with nukes and hides it from the IAIE.
 Quoting: Bazork!


I thought someone said turkey has em too...if not...deal done
UtahApoc

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05/31/2010 05:24 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I think this means Turkey braking off from NATO


it means nato breaking off.

the ship of a sovereign nato member was attacked and its nationals was killed in international waters.

casus belli grade act of war, also an act of piracy.

as per nato treaty articles any nation has the right to call the organization to retaliate. if organization doesnt, its void and null, and breaks up.
 Quoting: Bazork!



so NATO will be finished this week since there is no way they will back Turkey against Israel.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
05/31/2010 05:24 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
It would be interesting to hear the nationalities of those killed in the raid. I don't think it will make many NATO countries pleased.
Duchess Of Dork

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05/31/2010 05:25 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.


yeah.

israel is the only country with nukes and hides it from the IAIE.


I thought someone said turkey has em too...if not...deal done
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811621


More likely USA has them at a base in Turkey. They will not use them against Israel.
The greatest illusion is the illusion of separation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 811621
United States
05/31/2010 05:26 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.


yeah.

israel is the only country with nukes and hides it from the IAIE.


I thought someone said turkey has em too...if not...deal done


More likely USA has them at a base in Turkey. They will not use them against Israel.
 Quoting: Duchess Of Dork


There you go
89446

User ID: 925714
Romania
05/31/2010 05:28 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

---

This was what I was referring to as to the intent of these laws. Turkey failed to give due regard to Israel, by escorting ships destined to break an Israeli naval blockade. Therefore, in this case, the Turkish ship gave up it's right of peaceful passage because it's stated intent was not peaceful, it was to agitate Israel.
 Quoting: DanfromtheHills


Well I don't see how those ships sailing in international waters infringed in any way on Israel's rights. I would have agreed with the boarding IF it had occurred in territorial waters. It did not. Israel is in the wrong. They're acting increasingly irrationally, stupidly or arrogantly, depending on how one views it....
Sol Dominvs Imperi Romani
Imperium Romanum Sacrum
In Varietate Concordia
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:29 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
More likely USA has them at a base in Turkey. They will not use them against Israel.
 Quoting: Duchess Of Dork


usa's aircraft mounted tactical nukes are something of the cold war.


...........

since the break up of soviet bloc, pakistan, india, korea acquired nukes. iran is doing it.

but, you think turkey hasnt ? despite all those close ties with russia since last 10 years ?
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 987582
United States
05/31/2010 05:30 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nah just Turkey getting nuked by Israel would be about all that would happen if they went to war.


yeah.

israel is the only country with nukes and hides it from the IAIE.


I thought someone said turkey has em too...if not...deal done


More likely USA has them at a base in Turkey. They will not use them against Israel.


There you go
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811621

Turkey outlived their usefullnes to NATO, there is no Soviet menace any more, so NATO will leave Turkey out to dry. It wont be the end of NATO just the end of Turkey's involvement most likely.
89446

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Romania
05/31/2010 05:31 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
it means nato breaking off.

the ship of a sovereign nato member was attacked and its nationals was killed in international waters.

casus belli grade act of war, also an act of piracy.

as per nato treaty articles any nation has the right to call the organization to retaliate. if organization doesnt, its void and null, and breaks up.
 Quoting: Bazork!


But NATO is not forced to react military. Not at this stage at least. The reaction will be proportional and each member will decide what it will do.
Sol Dominvs Imperi Romani
Imperium Romanum Sacrum
In Varietate Concordia
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:31 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

---

This was what I was referring to as to the intent of these laws. Turkey failed to give due regard to Israel, by escorting ships destined to break an Israeli naval blockade. Therefore, in this case, the Turkish ship gave up it's right of peaceful passage because it's stated intent was not peaceful, it was to agitate Israel.
 Quoting: DanfromtheHills


did you even understand the meaning of the sentence you quoted ?

the sentence you quoted says regard should be given to EXERCISE OF FREEDOM of other countries in the high seas. it doesnt say 'regard should be given to INTERESTS of other nations'.

meaning, you can NOT do the precise thing what israel did.

basically it is an article that guarantees that every state shall have the freedom to navigate international waters.

AND also the article criminalizes use of force against any other nation's flag.
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
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Spain
05/31/2010 05:33 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
The article you quote refers to passage through TERRITORIAL WATERS.

Ok, gotcha. My bad.

These legal things are truly confusing.

Will see if I can find the one for international waters.



Here you go:

Article 87

Freedom of the high seas

1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:

(a) freedom of navigation;

(b) freedom of overflight;


Article 89

Invalidity of claims of sovereignty over the high seas

No State may validly purport to subject any part of the high seas to its sovereignty.

Article 96

Immunity of ships used only on government non-commercial service

Ships owned or operated by a State and used only on government non-commercial service shall, on the high seas, have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.

Article 101

Definition of piracy

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

Thanks.

Here's the whole part of the UN law for the High Seas...

[link to www.un.org]

You're right, Article 89 makes it clear, no state has sovereignty over the high seas. Neither Israel nor Turkey in this case.

Turkey seems to have violated article 87 however...

Article 87

Freedom of the high seas

1. The high seas are open to all States, whether coastal or land-locked. Freedom of the high seas is exercised under the conditions laid down by this Convention and by other rules of international law. It comprises, inter alia, both for coastal and land-locked States:

(a) freedom of navigation;

(b) freedom of overflight;

(c) freedom to lay submarine cables and pipelines, subject to Part VI;

(d) freedom to construct artificial islands and other installations permitted under international law, subject to Part VI;

(e) freedom of fishing, subject to the conditions laid down in section 2;

(f) freedom of scientific research, subject to Parts VI and XIII.

2. These freedoms shall be exercised by all States with due regard for the interests of other States in their exercise of the freedom of the high seas, and also with due regard for the rights under this Convention with respect to activities in the Area.

---

This was what I was referring to as to the intent of these laws. Turkey failed to give due regard to Israel, by escorting ships destined to break an Israeli naval blockade. Therefore, in this case, the Turkish ship gave up it's right of peaceful passage because it's stated intent was not peaceful, it was to agitate Israel.
 Quoting: DanfromtheHills

if you re read that youll see that Turkey didnt violate that article as it posed no direct threat to israel but was bringing humanitarian aide to Gaza , Gaza which in itself is a situation against international law. Also if you read the United Nations Human Rights Charter you will note that its against all international law, even in a state of war, for any party to block humanitarian aide reaching civilians. So its pretty clear imo..
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:33 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Turkey outlived their usefullnes to NATO, there is no Soviet menace any more, so NATO will leave Turkey out to dry. It wont be the end of NATO just the end of Turkey's involvement most likely.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987582


hahahahahaha.

on the contrary, the day soviet bloc was down, it was declared by nato that turkey was even more important, because now threats lay in rogue states around the world, and middle east.

not to mention that, russia is now a powerful opponent of nato since last 10 years.

when turkey leaves nato, nato wont have anything but americans in saudi arabian bases to do anything in middle east. closest base will be in italy.
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:36 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I think this means Turkey braking off from NATO
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811621



Nope, NATO's breaking off the US and Israel. The next few years are gonna be bumpy!
Bazork!

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Turkey
05/31/2010 05:37 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nope, NATO's breaking off the US and Israel. The next few years are gonna be bumpy!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 930693


interesting, and possible prospect.

Eu has been wanting a central defense structure since a while ago. they were trying to set up an army. yet, it was too long a process.

if us is out of nato, that means that only canada remains from outside europe.

and it becomes a Eu alliance. problem solved.
anything that i say except the things i give references for is what i learned and deduced. they may or may not be correct.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:38 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
jesus christ..
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


If this happens, it won't be long until he is here to say; "What?"
Anonymous Coward
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Italy
05/31/2010 05:39 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
it means nato breaking off.

the ship of a sovereign nato member was attacked and its nationals was killed in international waters.

casus belli grade act of war, also an act of piracy.

as per nato treaty articles any nation has the right to call the organization to retaliate. if organization doesnt, its void and null, and breaks up.


But NATO is not forced to react military. Not at this stage at least. The reaction will be proportional and each member will decide what it will do.
 Quoting: 89446



The nation victim of the israelian aggeression should send the navy at the blockade point and demand immediate release of the kidnapped peoples and the vessels and then escort them back.

Israel not only violated well established international maritime laws but also killed civilians and if that was not enough kidnapped the rest.

This is what you have a navy for, if they dont use it as i said well that's just show you they are just a useless burden on taxpaier money.

But since it's Israel involved they will just probably wait than israel is confortable after they submit them to interrogations to release them.. just like the laws do not apply to them. Then know what they dont apply to me or to you neiter.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:40 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I think this could all blow over in a few days too. It may seem like the winds of war are blowing, but they can be just as quickly silenced.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
05/31/2010 05:41 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Since September 2000, Israel killed more than 6,300 Palestinians, most of whom were children and defenseless civilians. Israel has also demolished more than 25,000 Palestinian homes since 1967. It possess up to 200 nuclear warheads in violation of the United Nations Security Council resolution 487. Interestingly, it receives something around $7 million of military aid from the U.S. per day. 7,383 Palestinians are being kept in the prisons of Israel. The racist regime of Israel has built 223 settlements on the Palestinians' confiscated lands. Over the six-year period between September 2000 and February 2006, 36589 Palestinians were injured by the Israeli forces of whom 3530 Palestinians were permanently disabled or maimed. Shockingly, this six-year period was witness to the confiscation of 249680 km2 of Palestinian lands. Israeli forces even refused to overlook the Palestinian trees as they uprooted 1,187,762 Palestinian trees from 2000 to 2006. This shows the nature of the brutal regime of Israel which is even at odds with the natural resources and trees, let alone the human beings.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
05/31/2010 05:43 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
I was just doing a little research on Turkey and found out about the Kemalist ideology. It seems if that ever takes hold in Turkey, they will trully be a force to be reckoned with. And most likely a valuable asset to the EU.
Anonymous Coward
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Slovenia
05/31/2010 05:44 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
jesus christ..


Yes?

Here again at second time.

What? You need answers? Holy Trinity...

Look up at your Iranian vs Russia thread from 2/11/2010. There is an answer about all this, in one post coment.
All scenario and main acters.

G-ood L-uck P-eople


angel3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 987871


+1
Anonymous Coward
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Italy
05/31/2010 05:45 PM
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Re: NATO-Turkey gets ready for military confrontation with Israel
Nope, NATO's breaking off the US and Israel. The next few years are gonna be bumpy!


interesting, and possible prospect.

Eu has been wanting a central defense structure since a while ago. they were trying to set up an army. yet, it was too long a process.

if us is out of nato, that means that only canada remains from outside europe.

and it becomes a Eu alliance. problem solved.
 Quoting: Bazork!



This is not gonna work well, there are nations who after the WW2 have not spent much at all to have a proper army confiding in the USA allies to protect their territory in exchange the USA got the advantage of the strategic position of the bases..cold war blah blah thing..

I dont know how many years and investment would be required for the EU to have a proper self sufficent defense without the NATO.

And by that time honestly ...man we are in fucking 2010 with very serious problems awaiting from mother nature itself.. what the hell we are talking about there... we dont need much help to selfdestroy ourselves honestly.

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